Gibraltar removed from destinations

We we suspected, something magically "came up" which (the captain says) has prevented us from stopping in Gibraltar, as planned.

 

When we were about to leave Livorno yesterday, a big storm came up. The captain said that it wasn't safe to leave the small harbor in the (LARGE) ship under those conditions. We certainly agreed. However, then he announced that the Port Authorities had forbidden the ship to leave after dark, once the storm had gone by.

 

We were underway around 9am this morning, but the captain announced that we wouldn't have time to stop at Gibraltar.

 

Most of the anger I've heard expressed by passengers is due to Cunard already having cancelled stopping at Cadiz, Spain. We all believe that Cunard owes us some compensation for missing not one, but two, ports.

 

So--we're on a 14 day cruise that only stops at 4 ports in Spain, 2 in Italy and 1 in Portugal.

 

Otherwise, we've enjoyed the cruise. We even liked that very dramatic storm. Raining so hard it looked like a fire hose was trained on the windows, and lots of huge bursts of thunder and lightening.

 

Cheers!

Joyce

 

--Enroute to Lisbon, Portugal on the QM2

Sea days are the best days!

 

Enjoy them!

 

Michael

NTC

Although I became ill and couldn't join you on this cruise, (we had to cancel at the last minute), in one of my previous posts, I made mention of the fact that I had called Cunard about this problem and one of their representatives had PROMISED that Gibraltor would be included on this cruise and not missed, as in many previous cruises, as was Cadiz. Obviously, he was lying through his teeth!

 

What a shame, as Gibraltor is supposedly one of the finest shopping areas in the Med from what I've heard. To deliberately cancel with knowledge aforethought, two ports on a 9 port cruise, means that almost 25% of the money YOU'VE paid Cunard for their PUBLISHED itinerary of these offerred ports on your cruise, is being diverted to Cunard, and you're getting NOTHING in return! I think this is patently wrong. The reason, the Cunard Rep said, was that their brochures are made up two years in advance, and can't be changed (what a lame excuse)!

 

There is some reason they DO NOT or CANNOT stop in Cadiz and Gibraltor which they are reluctant to tell the public, but they're certainly NOT reluctant to take YOUR money by MISREPRESENTING their published itineraries! To not even offer a SUBSTITUTE PORT is, in my opinion, unconscionable ! :mad:

Although this will sound unsympathetic to your plight, may I suggest you review your contract for passage.

 

The Captain, at his sole discretion, may revise any itinerary without notice and no compensation is due the passenger, except for port charges.

 

You may think this is wrong, unfair, prejudicial, a rip-off, unconsionable or any other words you can think of, but by stepping foot on the vessel, you have agreed to all of the terms of the contract, not just the ones you like.

I understand all about the "contract", Iknick, but this is a matter of gross misrepresentation, it has nothing to do with the contract. Cunard has over the past year, established a HISTORY of advertising these ports on all of their Mediterranean cruises and then aborting these two particular ports, Cadiz and Gibraltor on every trip!

 

If there were a reason, i.e., weather conditions, problems with the ship, civil war, terrorist threat, etc., then, of course, Cunard would have the right to change the itinerary of any cruise without notice to the passenger, but they have now established a HISTORY of DELIBERATELY advertising these two ports on all Mediterranean itineraries and aborting arrival at the same for no good reason and without any explanation to the passenger.

 

They're in the process of setting some kind of a precedent, and in my opinion there should be a "class action" suit by previous passengers all of whom have been "robbed" and so disappointed by this constant gross misrepresentation of itinerary, for which they've paid their good money!

 

BTW, for whom do YOU work? Sounds like you're a Cunard employee! :rolleyes:

Some people are really upset about changes in the itinerary and I know that to miss something you were looking for can be very disappointing. Actually, Cunard changed the itinerary on literally every cruise I took with them (fortunately not on a crossing :-) ). It definitely looks like a bad habit. Yet, is it worth to destroy the vacation experience and to rave over for days or weeks?

IMHO class actions and legal actions of every kind are a very strong reaction. The contract says nothing about any restrictions regarding the reasons for changes. It is sole discretion of Cunard and the captain. Thus save money and nerves. I would recommend everybody who feels ill-treated to write Cunard about. Maybe you get a friendly answer and some consolidation. If not, be consequent and deny them your business.

Maybe it is a cultural thing but it is really hard for me to understand why one would want to cry for legal actions as soon as he is dissatisfied. If applicable, thousands of friendly but firm complaints might be much more successful than the use of heavy weapons.

They're in the process of setting some kind of a precedent, and in my opinion there should be a "class action" suit by previous passengers all of whom have been "robbed" and so disappointed by this constant gross misrepresentation of itinerary, for which they've paid their good money!

British law does not allow what you are proposing. As a British flagged ship, you would have to sue at Queen's Bench. Under British law, if the court rules against you, you are responsible for all incurred costs, including those of the defendant.

 

BTW, for whom do YOU work? Sounds like you're a Cunard employee!

No, not an employee of Cunard. Just a guy who thinks your position is foolish.

None of what I posted has to do with Cunard.

 

It simply had to do with your threat of legal action without knowing the facts of what you have agreed to or litigation. That is what I consider to be foolish as I do the violence your lecture.

It is unfortunate when personalizations overcome fact. The old adage of 'killing the messenger' is at play.

 

No matter how you word it, you appear to be on a crusade. A change in itinerary is not now, nor has it ever been, a justification for litigation.

The way to go in the UK is through the County Court Small Claims Court. You do not need a lawyer and can appear personally to present your case. It would be very interesting to see the outcome. Claims have many times been allowed for things like turning up to a pre booked hotel in Spain to find a building site, but missing Gib. ??

 

David.

I believe I read that Spain has refused any ships to berthe at her ports which have also berthed at Gibralter. So Cunard has had to choose between stops at Spain or a stop at Gibralter.

 

Perhaps someone can enlighten us about the politics of this situation?

This was the case some time ago , but an agreement has been reached now. Under EU law it was illegal anyway.

David.

Politically the situation is that Spain wants to get Gibraltar back as part of Spain, (it was ceded to Great Britain after the war of the Spanish succession in 1713) Great Britain and the residents of Gibraltar don't want this. There has been a long history of problems at the land border, with this being closed at times in the past. Gibraltar is classed as an Overseas Territory of Great Britain, and as such is technically part of the EU. The ban was lifted, but see article below. It may well be that with a constantly changing situation the cruise companies are dropping Gib. for fear of not being alowed to enter any Spanish port.

 

David.

 

 

Spain ends Gibraltar cruise ban

By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor

(Filed: 03/09/2004)

 

Spain will lift its ban on cruise ships entering Gibraltar for the next three months, in a cautious warming of relations between Madrid and the Rock.

 

Spain, which claims Gibraltar as its territory, has waged a long war of bureaucratic attrition against the colony.

 

The latest dispute broke out in May when Spain told foreign ships they could not dock in Spanish ports if they also called in Gibraltar, a favourite cruise ship destination.

 

But under pressure from London, which accused Madrid of breaching European Union law, the new Spanish government quietly backed away from the confrontation.

 

Miguel Angel Moratinos, the incoming Spanish foreign minister, announced a temporary "moratorium" on the ban, allowing ships to call at Gibraltar during the summer peak season. The suspension expired on Tuesday but Spanish diplomatic sources said it would be extended a further three months until November.

 

Spain's decision came after senior officials had a surprise lunch with Peter Caruana, Gibraltar's chief minister, in the southern Spanish town of Los Barrios on Saturday. It was the first time the two sides had met at senior level since November 2001.

 

Although Spain had been an important ally of Britain and America during the Iraq war last year, relations over Gibraltar deteriorated after the collapse of talks to share sovereignty over Gibraltar.

 

Spain was particularly angry that Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, went to Gibraltar last month as part of the celebrations for the 300th anniversary of Britain.

 

Madrid saw his arrival as a deliberate affront after a trip by the Princess Royal and a visit by a British nuclear submarine.

QE2 - Mediterranean - August 2004

 

We docked at Gibraltar 03Aug04

We docked at Barcelona 09Aug04

We docked at Alicante 10Aug04

We docked at Malaga 11Aug04

 

All arrival and depature times were as advertised. If there were any problems, they were kept away from the passengers. Everthing ran impeccably, no disruption whatsoever to our enjoyment of this great ship and the fantastic places we visited.