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Should entry level shooters consider full frame?


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A few years ago, I would have considered even this question totally ridiculous. But with the popularity of the Sony A7iii and the camera makers concentration on full frame models, I discussed whether today's entry level buyers should be looking at full frame cameras like the A7iii.....

https://enthusiastphotoblog.com/2018/07/25/should-entry-level-shooters-consider-full-frame/

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A few years ago, I would have considered even this question totally ridiculous. But with the popularity of the Sony A7iii and the camera makers concentration on full frame models, I discussed whether today's entry level buyers should be looking at full frame cameras like the A7iii.....

https://enthusiastphotoblog.com/2018/07/25/should-entry-level-shooters-consider-full-frame/

 

Again with the great article Adam!

 

My answer would be...depends. Depends as in decision data needed, not the adult diapers.

 

Budget and size preference are key factors. I just took a business trip to Chicago and since I was trying to keep mass to a minimum (and trying one of those self-imposed minimalist challenges), I only packed my A6300, the 7artisans 25mm f/1.8 and the Rokinon 12mm f/2. The shot below is my vote for starting with a sub $1000 ILC like the A6300 and move to full-frame if it turns out you love using a "real" camera.

 

Sony A6300 - Rokion 12mm f/2

p2988223576-5.jpg

 

This is based on budget considerations, maybe 80%. The other 20% is the fact that while I would marry my A73 with the 24-105 G if it were legal, I still really, really like my A6300 for it's tiny form factor and the fact that it punches way above its weight class in performance.

 

Admittedly, if you mount a truly effective lens like the 18-105G, the difference between the A6300 and the full-frame A73 isn't as significant as one would think.

 

sidebyside.jpg

 

There's about a pound difference there and the A73 is about as state of the art as you could ask for but the price difference equipped as seen in the photo is about $1700.

 

In good light, as equipped above and assuming you don't have crazy autofocus challenges (the A6300 autofocus is very, very good but the A73 is almost mystical) both will make images limited only by your skill.

 

If you don't mind a (surprisingly little) bit of weight and your discretionary income is healthy, entry-level full-frame is a real thing. If you are on a bit of a budget, APS-C can be a great doorway into "real camera" photography. Additionally, if you are judicious in lens choices, you can prime the pump on moving to full-frame by buying lenses like a good telephoto that will work on APS-C but are designed for their more advanced cousins.

 

Whichever way you go, finding a bad camera is harder than any time in history and photography has never, ever had a better price/performance ratio.

 

It's a great time to be a photographer.

 

Dave

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Yes, agree with your points.

 

It’s recognition of the changing times. Not long ago, the camera makers were releasing a new entry level camera annually. But that has slowed down tremendously, except maybe for Canon.

Nikon hasn’t done a sub-$1000 dslr in over 2 years. For Sony, it’s been even longer. The a5100/a6000 are their entry cameras, at 5 years of age.

 

It’s a realization that the market has really shrunk for those simple cheap cameras.

For the “entry” shooter looking for simplicity — what I described as “entry shooter for life”— there is little reason to even look at ILC cameras.

 

Going forward, ILCs are primarily for serious shooters (which was also true in the pre-digital era).

 

The price gap between “serious” aps-c cameras and full frame really isn’t huge. So yes, if you prioritize keeping size down, it’s a reason to still go aps-c. But if you’re looking to maximize IQ, I think it’s fair to consider full frame without spending 10 years climbing the ladder. As long as you intend to get serious, it can be worthwhile.

 

I teach an introductory photography class. I’m saddened when I get a student who is clearly enthusiastic about photography, but a salesman talked them into something like the Canon T6, without really explaining the benefits of a more expensive camera. They thought they were just missing out on a flippy LCD... but quickly find all the true limitations of those very basic models. In even more extreme examples, someone walks in with a bridge P&S camera with a belief that it’s no different than a dslr. (Amazing how consumers are oblivious to the value of sensor size and they believe zoom X factor is the most important spec... although that’s starting to change as those types of buyers are generally leaving the market)

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My advise to a student that wants an edge is buy FF but a used body Nikon D3s or D800. The D3s would be my 1st choice for a student. Fast, faster and able to get that shot others miss with an exception of another pro body. Very good at sports which student can use at school. Using it at night gets you really interesting stuff. Now sell them on the idea of good pro glass that they keep long after the body is in the trash. I still have 4 lenses from the late 70's and still use them from time to time for special projects. Most lenses I own were bought when they were 5-6 years old for 50% of a new one.

 

 

 

Any lens you use with a D3 D3s should be f/5.6 or better, a f/4 is better and f/2.8 operate the camera at peak focus speed. I see a significant decrease in performance using f/5.6 glass.

 

 

 

framer

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...

The D3s would be my 1st choice for a student. Fast, faster and able to get that shot others miss with an exception of another pro body....

 

framer

 

Or the top 2 APS-C Sony Alphas.... ;)

 

Dave

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Y In even more extreme examples, someone walks in with a bridge P&S camera with a belief that it’s no different than a dslr.

 

In addition to my 6300s, I have a P&S which my son uses -it's too heavy for me - but the RX10 III' sensor seems to be on a par with many dslr cameras.

 

Incidentally, a great article!

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Good article as usual!

 

My only thing is a matter of semantics. You say "potential". I say "buffer for mistakes". LOL Full frame lets me get away with more. If you can afford it and don't mind the size, I see nothing wrong with a beginner using a full frame. We all have to start somewhere. When I started driving, my dad told me to learn on his S-class (relax, it was bought used and ancient) cuz it was unflappable, but huge so anything else would be easy to drive later.

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In addition to my 6300s, I have a P&S which my son uses -it's too heavy for me - but the RX10 III' sensor seems to be on a par with many dslr cameras.

 

Incidentally, a great article!

 

I agree—- the rx10 is on par with DSLRs. But I’m talking about a cheap small sensor bridge camera. Since it looks a bit like a dslr, they thought they were effectively getting the same thing. But then they can’t figure out why all their low light pics are dark and grainy

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Budget and size preference are key factors. I just took a business trip to Chicago and since I was trying to keep mass to a minimum (and trying one of those self-imposed minimalist challenges), I only packed my A6300, the 7artisans 25mm f/1.8 and the Rokinon 12mm f/2. The shot below is my vote for starting with a sub $1000 ILC like the A6300 and move to full-frame if it turns out you love using a "real" camera.

 

Sony A6300 - Rokion 12mm f/2

p2988223576-5.jpg

 

This is based on budget considerations, maybe 80%. The other 20% is the fact that while I would marry my A73 with the 24-105 G if it were legal, I still really, really like my A6300 for it's tiny form factor and the fact that it punches way above its weight class in performance.

 

Admittedly, if you mount a truly effective lens like the 18-105G, the difference between the A6300 and the full-frame A73 isn't as significant as one would think.

 

sidebyside.jpg

 

There's about a pound difference there and the A73 is about as state of the art as you could ask for but the price difference equipped as seen in the photo is about $1700.

 

Dave

 

Budget and size preference are key factors. When dipping my toe into the camera market I wouldn't spend the extra money. I'm somewhere between cheap and extravagant. I'm really happy with the a6300 right now and see no need to go to the full sensor. Maybe someday I'll say "it's only an extra $1000" when it comes to a camera, but I hope not!

 

Vic

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Budget and size preference are key factors. When dipping my toe into the camera market I wouldn't spend the extra money. I'm somewhere between cheap and extravagant. I'm really happy with the a6300 right now and see no need to go to the full sensor. Maybe someday I'll say "it's only an extra $1000" when it comes to a camera, but I hope not!

 

Vic

 

But what about when it’s only an extra $300?

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I'm not encouraging people to switch to full frame... My conclusion of the entire post was a "maybe"...

 

Just noting it is becoming a consideration for types of shooters that never would have considered it before. It's funny when I see A7iii forums on facebook etc... and people are asking totally newbie questions. I had always been old school --- you didn't even consider full frame until you had become a pretty advanced photographer.

 

But much has changed -- Including the size of a full frame Sony mirrorless is about equal to a aps-c dSLR. And the price is pretty similar to a high end aps-c dSLR --- Including inflation, the price is pretty equivalent to entry dSLRs of the 2000's

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I’m saddened when I get a student who is clearly enthusiastic about photography

 

My answer was based on an enthusiastic photography student. One thing I've learn over the years is, "suck it up", buy the best 1st and save your self money buying another later. It's amazing where you can find extra funds when you need them to buy another photo thingy.

 

 

framer

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