New Dress Code Designations?

The market that Cunard are aiming at will soon discover that paying a premium price to be able to dine,drink and go to the theatre in a polo shirt and chinos is not sufficient and they will want more facilities i.e a video games room,dance competitions,circus shows,a large water slide etc. If Cunard provide these then the new clients will find that Cunard ships are no different from other cruises and will either want more facilities or cheaper prices.Eventually the bean counters at Carnival will suggest they could save millions in advertising by putting the cruises all under one brand and calling the ships "Carnival Something" Within 5/8 years Cunard will have changed dramatically and within 10/15 years the brand will have disappeared. R.I.P. Cunard !!

You allow way too much time. It only took NCL two to three years to go from a decent line to a seriously under market event.

And no doubt not a single Cunard staff member or Officer did a thing about it.

They would probably get told off if they say something.

Maybe it would be fun, although difficult to organise, if the passengers who comply with the dress code took action themselves.

For example, if someone in unsuitable attire entered the theatre, and was not told to leave by the staff, everyone else in the theatre stand up and walk out.

The same action could be applied to the other formal venues.

I can imagine the panic this would create with the managers and officers and I don't think they would want this action to be repeated. therefore they might just start enforcing the dress code again.

Think what an impact only a few people sitting in the theatre, or even just a few sitting in the restaurant would have while all the properly dressed passengers ordered room service meals or went to the lido.

Maybe one days inconvenience would be worth it to show Cunard people are serious about maintaining the ethos of Cunard.

There are far to many examples in the world today of a small minority dictating to the large majority but unless the majority make a stand it will only get worse.

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Maybe one days inconvenience would be worth it to show Cunard people are serious about maintaining the ethos of Cunard.

 

There are far to many examples in the world today of a small minority dictating to the large majority but unless the majority make a stand it will only get worse.

Methinks you might have this one backwards- if there wasn’t a majority of people who wanted a more relaxed dress code or Cunard didn’t think taking this action would make their cruises more marketable, they would never have stirred the pot.

I think the diehards on the formal dress code that will never sail Cunard again because of these changes are firmly in a very small minority or else Cunard would have never made this business decision.

Perhaps someone said this previously but there are many more reasons to sail Cunard than just the dress code! Lovely, elegant ships, intelligent entertainment, good service etc. Not to mention that for much of the year they provide the only way to cross the Atlantic by ship. Cannot believe so many people are cancelling. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMHO.

Perhaps someone said this previously but there are many more reasons to sail Cunard than just the dress code! Lovely, elegant ships, intelligent entertainment, good service etc. Not to mention that for much of the year they provide the only way to cross the Atlantic by ship. Cannot believe so many people are cancelling. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMHO.

It depends on what one values and in what order, here is a somewhat incomplete list, in no particular order.

1. Food quality.

2. Ambiance (this includes how other people dress), THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IF EVERYBODY WALKS AROUND IN TANK TOPS AND GYM SHORTS VS. NICE CLOTHS

2. Service.

3. Cabin size/quality.

4. Itinerary.

5. On board activities.

6. Price

Personally, I booked a cruise on Cunard because of the ambiance with a specific emphasis on the dress code, even though the cost on Cunard was significantly higher. It doesn't mean that I will not book on Cunard again, it just means the price will need to be lower since there won't be as significant a difference between them and other mainstream lines.

As others, including myself, have already mentioned, it's pretty obvious that Carnival is intentionally and progressively diluting the differences between their various "products". And that, in reality, a lot if not a majority of people book a generic "cruise" on price, schedule or itinerary rather than some subtle distinction between Cunard or Carnival, Holland America or P&O. Most of these are old "legacy" lines whose history and traditions appeal to the increasingly small number of people who care about such things in anything, let alone a holiday at sea. Indeed, what are these "traditions" in terms of real tangible features and benefits: not many. The crews are the same, the officers are largely interchangeable, the ships are the same except superficially and yes, the dress codes increasingly so. QM2 is the only exception but everything else is the difference between a Buick and a Pontiac. Which ain't much.

I can well see Carnival just merging it all and with future newbuilding having the "ship within a ship" concept of a separate deluxe class and yes just back to the old class system.

I actually think these changes are good, love the new casual, what you feel comfortable with in the day time. This is just what people want today. Casual day time, elegant night time. The what you feel comfortable with in day time, for example means I can wear swim wear to walk to pool, of course keeping away from formal public areas. I personally would never wear swimwear in any lounge, restaurant , bar or formal public area. But the idea of changing rooms by pool is Victorian .

Once the evening comes, then we all should be elegantly dressed, and this should be politely enforced.

The Gala and smart attire are exactly the same as the previous dress code for evenings . The names have changed and they politely request you to follow this dress code. This is how you should talk to paying guests, you shouldn't use words like require, one doesn't order guests around but politely but firmly request.

By the way, re the comment in ones of the posts above, replying to my comparison with beach resorts , they can have STYLE as those who've been to the BEST Indian Ocean island resorts will know. Very casual in the day, stylish Michelin star restaurants at night, where one is expected to dress well (ok not black tie). This is what Cunard should aspire to, a seemless transition from casual day to elegant evening, but in cunard's case elegant will be more formal than a beach resort, although both can have style.

I actually think these changes are good, love the new casual, what you feel comfortable with in the day time. This is just what people want today. Casual day time, elegant night time. The what you feel comfortable with in day time, for example means I can wear swim wear to walk to pool, of course keeping away from formal public areas. I personally would never wear swimwear in any lounge, restaurant , bar or formal public area. But the idea of changing rooms by pool is Victorian .

 

Once the evening comes, then we all should be elegantly dressed, and this should be politely enforced.

 

The Gala and smart attire are exactly the same as the previous dress code for evenings . The names have changed and they politely request you to follow this dress code. This is how you should talk to paying guests, you shouldn't use words like require, one doesn't order guests around but politely but firmly request.

 

By the way, re the comment in ones of the posts above, replying to my comparison with beach resorts , they can have STYLE as those who've been to the BEST Indian Ocean island resorts will know. Very casual in the day, stylish Michelin star restaurants at night, where one is expected to dress well (ok not black tie). This is what Cunard should aspire to, a seemless transition from casual day to elegant evening, but in cunard's case elegant will be more formal than a beach resort, although both can have style.

we are on QE on June 10th first cruise with new definitions and again in October with QM2 and QV next year I shall wait and see how the ambience changes (if it does) before passing a definitive judgement the 2 Cunard emails received over the weekend do show much younger specimen passengers than previous mailing

we are on QE on June 10th first cruise with new definitions and again in October with QM2 and QV next year I shall wait and see how the ambience changes (if it does) before passing a definitive judgement the 2 Cunard emails received over the weekend do show much younger specimen passengers than previous mailing

Curious!

I’ve been reading some of the comments on this post and have referred to the voyage details in my booking, which led me to the dress rules.

Unless I’m being stupid, and no I haven’t read every post, but it clearly states that on TAs and most other cruises (sorry, hardy Cunarders) journey, informal means a jacket for men, whilst on selected itineraries (particularly Med Summer) the jacket rule is relaxed on informal nights as long as the general rule about smart dress is observed. Simples!

I must admit that some of the previous comments made me chuckle in terms of some nationalities misguided interpretation of smart casual!

We have done a number of cruises with Celebrity and whilst not sticklers for rigid dress code, do enjoy dressing smartly and formal nights, so you can imagine our dismay when formal nights became evening chic, renamed shabby chic by me having seen the appalling way some people interpret smart casual, and Celebrity’s reluctance to chuck “tramps” out of the MDR

Oh well, rant over. Really looking forward to our TA on QM2 (Aug 3rd) and dancing in a proper ballroom at sea rather than the postage stamps most ships have for Dance floors.

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Trust me. They are not "oblivious"! They are thumbing down their noses. The staff(and pax) need to make the "Onslows" aware that this form of improper dress is unacceptable. If we as pax do nothing, then the staff will do the same & then watch Cunard degrade into just another mass market cruiseline.

Fans of Keeping Up Appearances may remember that even Onslow wore a white dinner jacket to dinner in the Caronia (first class) Restaurant on the QE2.

Without copying other posts, I have a couple of comments. I am always amused by the term "relaxed" when defining or discussing dress standards. I feel quite relaxed in a tuxedo or suit and tie. Too many men are too proud to buy clothes of the proper, i.e. comfortable, size. As much as I like wearing ties, I dislike the strangled feeling one can get. The answer is simple: buy shirts with a collar-size slightly bigger than absolutely necessary. Buying a suit or dinner jacket one size bigger is also helpful. This will be comfortable without looking sloppy. "Mrs David" does the same with her dresses - and not only the formal ones.

Regarding the overall downgrading of standards and ambience that could happen if Cunard disappears, some people predicted many years ago that a future Cunard ship might be called the Carnival Queen. Sorry, I can't give credit to the person who first published this.

Caronia "first class"?

I always understood that Princess Grill and Britannia Grill were first class.

Queens Grill was the grade above first class.

2. Ambiance (this includes how other people dress), THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IF EVERYBODY WALKS AROUND IN TANK TOPS AND GYM SHORTS VS. NICE CLOTHS

During the day? There's nothing in the existing codes to prohibit it, so I think that nothing in Cunard's new names for the dress codes will have an impact on tank tops & gym shorts.

Perhaps someone said this previously but there are many more reasons to sail Cunard than just the dress code! Lovely, elegant ships, intelligent entertainment, good service etc. Not to mention that for much of the year they provide the only way to cross the Atlantic by ship. Cannot believe so many people are cancelling. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, IMHO.

Well dressed, civil passengers are those who create the demand for intelligent entertainment. Lose those people and you lose the entertainment. NCL used to have enrichment seminars on all of their cruises. They went way down market in their attire allowances and they no longer offer enrichment seminars because the casual passenger does not want them. They want rock climbing walls, bumper cars. bowling alleys, video arcades, zip lines. Would not be a big surprise if Cunards new ship carries at least one or two such forms of entertainment.

Carnival itself did away with linen in the dining room in favor of the US casual dine out places They now call their main dining room the American Table. So loosen a bit here and then there until it is a clone of the other lines and not worth paying a premium.

It depends on what one values and in what order, here is a somewhat incomplete list, in no particular order.

 

1. Food quality.

2. Ambiance (this includes how other people dress), THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IF EVERYBODY WALKS AROUND IN TANK TOPS AND GYM SHORTS VS. NICE CLOTHS

2. Service.

3. Cabin size/quality.

4. Itinerary.

5. On board activities.

6. Price

 

Personally, I booked a cruise on Cunard because of the ambiance with a specific emphasis on the dress code, even though the cost on Cunard was significantly higher. It doesn't mean that I will not book on Cunard again, it just means the price will need to be lower since there won't be as significant a difference between them and other mainstream lines.

Well stated. One can listen to the singing of Handels Messiah by a highly professional choir and orchestra or one can listen to the Messiah sung by the local 8th grade class with 8th grade orchestra. Still the Messiah but without the ambiance.

Caronia "first class"?

 

 

 

I always understood that Princess Grill and Britannia Grill were first class.

 

 

 

Queens Grill was the grade above first class.

Caronia was indeed the ships original first class restaurant (although it was named Columbia). The ships Tourist Class restaurant and Columbia then switched spots for a bit and when First Class was moved back it was named Caronia.

Queens Grill started life as a night club (736 Club- just as unimaginative as G32) and was eventually a casino. I believe it became the penthouse restaurant in the 72 refit.

Princess Grill was actually the original extra tariff restaurant which is why it was always far more interesting decoratively than Britannia Grill which didn’t come around until the early 90s and was called Princess Grill Starboard (Cunard must have had a bunch of focus groups when naming it). PG became a dedicated dining room also in the 72 refit when the original penthouses were put up top.

Caronia was indeed the ships original first class restaurant (although it was named Columbia). The ships Tourist Class restaurant and Columbia then switched spots for a bit and when First Class was moved back it was named Caronia.

...

Columbia/Caronia were single sitting in the first class tradition. Ordering off-menu was encouraged by the maître d', at least when it was still called first. Britannia Club was introduced on the current Queens in answer to the many complaints about the lack of a single sitting restaurant other than the Grills. Being first class, Columbia/Caronia was black tie every night except the first and last on a crossing. The crossings were only five nights for many years and later became six nights.

When the QE2 became one-class plus Grills, the one-sitting restaurant was still maintained for those in the larger staterooms. I recall from my experience silver service and off-menu ordering were discontinued. But the standard of dress was maintained. Jacket and tie were required on the QE2 in all restaurants even on the informal nights.

Columbia/Caronia were single sitting in the first class tradition. Ordering off-menu was encouraged by the maître d', at least when it was still called first. Britannia Club was introduced on the current Queens in answer to the many complaints about the lack of a single sitting restaurant other than the Grills. Being first class, Columbia/Caronia was black tie every night except the first and last on a crossing. The crossings were only five nights for many years and later became six nights.

 

 

 

 

 

When the QE2 became one-class plus Grills, the one-sitting restaurant was still maintained for those in the larger staterooms. I recall from my experience silver service and off-menu ordering were discontinued. But the standard of dress was maintained. Jacket and tie were required on the QE2 in all restaurants even on the informal nights.

Back when ships were ships. None of this nonsense today with dressed up cruise ships.

I just noticed something curious regarding the dress code designations in voyage personaliser for our upcoming voyages on QM2. We are booked on three consecutive voyages M821 (eastbound crossing), M822 (Norwegian Fjords), and M823 (westbound crossing).

 

The dress code for our first crossing was posted in voyage personaliser a little over a month ago and is what I was expecting.

 

Voyage M821

10 June - New York Embark - Dress: Informal (Jacket Required)

11 June - Sea Day - Dress: Formal (Royal Cunard Ball)

12 June - Sea Day - Dress: Informal (Jacket Required)

13 June - Sea Day - Dress: Formal

14 June - Sea Day - Dress: Informal (Jacket Required)

15 June - Sea Day - Dress: Formal (Roaring Twenties Ball)

16 June - Sea Day - Dress: Informal (Jacket Required)

17 June- Southampton Disembark

 

The dress codes for our next two voyages were just posted today in voyage personaliser and are not exactly what I was expecting. Here is what is listed within the itineraries for those two voyages.

 

Voyage M822

17 June - Southampton Embark - Dress: Informal (Jacket Required)

18 June - Sea Day - Dress: Gala Evening (Black & White Ball)

19 June - Bergen - Dress: Smart Attire

20 June - Alesund - Dress: Smart Attire

21 June - Flaam - Dress: Smart Attire

22 June - Stavanger - Dress: Gala Evening (Masquerade Ball)

23 June - Sea Day - Dress: Smart Attire

24 June - Southampton Disembark

 

Voyage M823

24 June - Southampton Embark - Dress: Smart Attire

25 June - Sea Day - Dress: Gala Evening (Black & White Ball)

26 June - Sea Day - Dress: Smart Attire

27 June - Sea Day - Dress: Gala Evening

28 June - Sea Day - Dress: Smart Attire

29 June - Sea Day - Dress: Gala Evening (Masquerade Ball)

30 June - Sea Day - Dress: Smart Attire

01 July - New York Disembark

 

The best I can make of this is that Cunard is starting to call the "Formal" dress code "Gala Evening" instead and is starting to call the "Informal" dress code "Smart Attire" instead. I hope that's all there is to it. I can find no definition of the "Gala Evening" and "Smart Attire" dress codes. I fact, the "What to Wear" page within voyager personaliser still refers to the dress codes as "Formal" and "Informal", so I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

Just wanted to bring this up in case anyone else has any other ideas about what Cunard may be up to with these new "Gala Evening" and "Smart Attire" dress code designations shown in our voyage personaliser itineraries.

 

John

Hi all. My apologies that I haven't had time to read all of the posts in this thread, but I did reach out to our PR contacts at Cunard for some clarification on this. Here's what they had to say:

"We have completed extensive global research with over 13,000 guests who told us that they love the glamour of a Cunard voyage; the chance to dress up is something that is becoming increasingly rare yet increasingly desirable.

We are not making any changes to the dress code but we are updating the language that we use to describe the evening attire on board:

During the day, feel free to relax and dress as you please in all areas of the ship.

From 6pm on 'Informal' nights, we ask that you wear smart attire in most of our bars, restaurants and entertainment venues. On our much anticipated Gala evenings, dress attire is Formal. We invite you to dress to impress and celebrate with us. There are two or three of these Gala evenings for every seven days of your voyage.

Informal/Smart Attire: Gentlemen, every night we request you wear smart trousers with a shirt and jacket; tie is optional. Ladies, blouses and skirts or stylish trousers and dresses are welcome.

Formal/Gala Evenings: It’s Showtime. Dinner jacket, tuxedo, or dark suit for the men with a regular tie or bow tie. Evening or cocktail dress, smart trouser suit, or formal separates for the ladies please."

Hope this helps to clear up any confusion.

Thanks Ashley, that's the same answer we've all been getting.

It's a little disingenuous, as they have increased the number of areas of the ship where the dress code isn't required.

Thanks Ashley, that's the same answer we've all been getting.

It's a little disingenuous, as they have increased the number of areas of the ship where the dress code isn't required.

And it’s the increase in number of areas where the dress code isn’t required that is bothering me! Would it be possible for Ashley to ask her contacts about that please? Many thanks.

And it’s the increase in number of areas where the dress code isn’t required that is bothering me! Would it be possible for Ashley to ask her contacts about that please? Many thanks.

Could you also ask regarding this?

During the day, feel free to relax and dress as you please in all areas of the ship.

It would appear swimwear without covering is now allowed everywhere.

If this is the case, the dress code HAS fundamentally changed, not just the wording. We have then been lied to, trust and respect is broken, and every cruise booked then goes.

Could you also ask regarding this?

During the day, feel free to relax and dress as you please in all areas of the ship.

 

 

It would appear swimwear without covering is now allowed everywhere

I'm afraid I must make comment about the daytime dress issue. Whatever Cunard may dictate for daytime dress standards with their rules, it behoves all of us to behave with the decorum which we use in everyday life. Just because Cunard does not tell their passengers not to wander along the corridors or passageways wearing swimwear in their new rules, does not mean that one has to put aside normal decorum, consideration for one's fellow passengers, and the basic courtesies of living in a civilised society.

I would be offended and shocked to see people walking about the ship in their swimwear or men bare-chested. Someone has commented that it would be 'Victorian' to get changed by the pool in a changing room; what a nonsense! That's what you'd do on any European beach! Or wear a cover-up, sundress, shorts and shirt/t-shirt over said swimwear and peel off poolside. And shoes or sandals, please while you're about it.

You might be wondering - I'm not 100 years old, just a normal person in my 50's and I'm sure many of you would agree with me.

I agree and from a practical point of view, the ships are pretty cold, I wouldn't expect to see many swim suit wearing passengers in the public areas.

I'm afraid I must make comment about the daytime dress issue. Whatever Cunard may dictate for daytime dress standards with their rules, it behoves all of us to behave with the decorum which we use in everyday life. Just because Cunard does not tell their passengers not to wander along the corridors or passageways wearing swimwear in their new rules, does not mean that one has to put aside normal decorum, consideration for one's fellow passengers, and the basic courtesies of living in a civilised society.

 

 

 

 

 

I would be offended and shocked to see people walking about the ship in their swimwear or men bare-chested. Someone has commented that it would be 'Victorian' to get changed by the pool in a changing room; what a nonsense! That's what you'd do on any European beach! Or wear a cover-up, sundress, shorts and shirt/t-shirt over said swimwear and peel off poolside. And shoes or sandals, please while you're about it.

 

 

 

 

 

You might be wondering - I'm not 100 years old, just a normal person in my 50's and I'm sure many of you would agree with me.

Sorry, but when was the last time you were on a “European” beach? It is a very common sight to see men walking around the promenades in Spain without tops and women in skimpy bikinis, usually displaying obscene amounts of excess flab!

I don’t care which cruise ship/Liner I’m on, I don’t want to see anyone in public areas other than the pool decks without tee shirts or cover ups.

I also think that some of the comments on this thread are hilarious! [emoji23]

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I agree and from a practical point of view, the ships are pretty cold, I wouldn't expect to see many swim suit wearing passengers in the public areas.

In your opinion, how many do you consider many?

Actually, for my part, one is too many?

But, they in swimware (being also those who support a dress code dumbing down) are correctly adhering to the new Cunard dress code.