Petra-----questions

Hello

I am a little worried about going to Petra. I REALLY do not want to miss it.. Both J.E.S and Phil have given me a little info and I have looked at videos and read a lot. I do however have some questions. I am asking this because I have had a double knee replacement and both ankles have had surgeries. I can walk but with pain pills and sometimes a cane. I just want info from those of you who have actually been there please.

questions

1. I know you can get a buggy ride. Not worried about the cost but does it really cover enough walking to get to the entrance?

2. are there any up hills or down hills. That is where I have the most problems. Also because of my fat butt......lol

3. is this done with a guide or at your own pace?

4. is it best to do the ships tour or a private one? If private which company please.

5. how much walking in miles from the buggy ride to the exit?

6. Phil you said your friend had a boot. Was she in any pain besides the boot putting her off kilter

Please any of the answers above and any more info would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Kathy

questions

1. I know you can get a buggy ride. Not worried about the cost but does it really cover enough walking to get to the entrance? No the buggy only goes part way you have to use a donkey/mule to get to the buggy ride

2. are there any up hills or down hills. That is where I have the most problems. Also because of my fat butt......lol Look at any maps or descriptions, it is seriously downhill to the Treasury and up back to the gate

3. is this done with a guide or at your own pace? The buggy ride has no guide as such they race down and up

4. is it best to do the ships tour or a private one? If private which company please. Personal choice, the ships guides were very good

5. how much walking in miles from the buggy ride to the exit? Uphill about a mile to to the souvenir stands then another 400+ years from there to the gate then another 600 or so yards uphill to the car park

6. Phil you said your friend had a boot. Was she in any pain besides the boot putting her off kilter Pain is a personal thing - heat is also an issue

The sequence is (and in reverse)

Downhill from carpark to entrance through souvenir area to the horse/donkey rides - can only be walked

Horse/donkey for about a mile to the start of the trail (or walk)

Hired buggy from trail start to the Treasury (or walk)

Treasury beyond to the amphitheatre and other sights- buggy cannot do this, have to transfer to another donkey, camel etc or walk

Total round trip according to my pedometer as far as the Amphitheatre was 7 miles. It is hard going back up - you are tired and it can be hot.

Personally I pushed through the pain barrier and did it but I was sure floored the next day.

Also bear in mind there are no bathrooms en route and at the treasury - well there are but I wouldn't advise it. Nice hole in the floor......

Petra is a wonder..I am so glad we saw it. I have a hip problem and take pain killers and I was able to walk to the treasuary and back with some pauses...my husband has the same problem and some breathing issues, it nearly killed him and we had to ask for a wheelchair on arrival at the Movenpick where a delicious lunch was provided when one opts for the ships excursion..not for the feeble or those who care about animal welfare!

I agree. Petra is a wonder and I take back memories of seeing it at night and during the day. It is a tiring trip. When we went and had assistance with a carriage to take us in it started from beyond the entrance gates, down the hill, through the gorge and ended up right by the treasury building. Back up in reverse. Must admit I didn’t see any buggies that uktog referred to.

Things to bear in mind. If you want to do the place justice you have to walk beyond the Treasury Building and there are some sites and views which really aren’t possible if you have impaired mobility or are in pain. The carriage has zero suspension and if they drive at speed, which some of the young lads do, it’s not the most comfortable experience. And yes, Top Tripper is right. Not a place for great animal welfare. We had to tell the driver to quit using his whip quite so much on more than one occasion.

Jordan as a country I found amazing. The drive to Petra in itself is spectacular. The people are friendly, but they'll try and rip you off as soon as they see you. Wadi Rum and Petra are two of my favourite ever places that I’ve seen and I’ve been to a few.

Phil

Petra is a wonder..I am so glad we saw it. I have a hip problem and take pain killers and I was able to walk to the treasuary and back with some pauses...my husband has the same problem and some breathing issues, it nearly killed him and we had to ask for a wheelchair on arrival at the Movenpick where a delicious lunch was provided when one opts for the ships excursion..not for the feeble or those who care about animal welfare!

Oh my now I am really worried. I LOVE animals better than people. A cop in Miami kicked his K-9 dog to death ( I hate when they call them K-9 units). I literally worked tirelessly until I got him prosecuted. Under Florida law it is a misdemeanor. I even brought the Humane Society of the United States in by pestering them to help and they did. Even went on TV with an interview for me.. He was off duty and the dog was just barking. He was suspended without pay for awhile and is never permitted to be a K-9 officer again.

Without being too graphic what is it about animal welfare that I should worry about? The horses?

Thinking maybe as badly as I want to go between the bad legs and what you are talking about with the animals I could end up in jail..........or whatever is a jail in this country.

Kathy

I agree. Petra is a wonder and I take back memories of seeing it at night and during the day. It is a tiring trip. When we went and had assistance with a carriage to take us in it started from beyond the entrance gates, down the hill, through the gorge and ended up right by the treasury building. Back up in reverse. Must admit I didn’t see any buggies that uktog referred to.

 

Things to bear in mind. If you want to do the place justice you have to walk beyond the Treasury Building and there are some sites and views which really aren’t possible if you have impaired mobility or are in pain. The carriage has zero suspension and if they drive at speed, which some of the young lads do, it’s not the most comfortable experience. And yes, Top Tripper is right. Not a place for great animal welfare. We had to tell the driver to quit using his whip quite so much on more than one occasion.

 

Jordan as a country I found amazing. The drive to Petra in itself is spectacular. The people are friendly, but they'll try and rip you off as soon as they see you. Wadi Rum and Petra are two of my favourite ever places that I’ve seen and I’ve been to a few.

 

Phil

I am afraid I would pull him out of the carriage and the whip out of his hands. Really re-thinking this now but also really want to go. Double dang.

Kathy

The buggy I refer to is the horse and carriage. On grandmas farm we called them buggies- sorry for the confusion.

I think rightly or wrongly we have to recognise that's some things relating to people or animals differ around the world. I don't like it but many times I know for my own safety say or do nothing.

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The buggy I refer to is the horse and carriage. On grandmas farm we called them buggies- sorry for the confusion.

I think rightly or wrongly we have to recognise that's some things relating to people or animals differ around the world. I don't like it but many times I know for my own safety say or do nothing.

 

 

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I guess for Christmas this year I should ask for a large roll of masking tape, a muzzle and some blinders to keep me out of trouble............lol

Kathy

I guess for Christmas this year I should ask for a large roll of masking tape, a muzzle and some blinders to keep me out of trouble............lol

 

Kathy

[emoji3]

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I guess for Christmas this year I should ask for a large roll of masking tape, a muzzle and some blinders to keep me out of trouble............lol

Kathy

Please don't if you are defending animals who do not have a voice themselves...

Yes Rabin...the horses are thin and worked hard. The walkway down to the treasury is a very slippery stone and the horses have no grip ...the sound of them trotting and sliding is upsetting but as UTog says, we do see these sad, and to our minds cruel actions in other parts of the world. One missed visit by us will not change the attitude held by the often young, ignorant drivers. Again, Petra is amazing.

yt

I am pretty sure now I am going to cancel. Not because of my legs but because of the animal abuse. If this were in the United States I could do something there nothing. If I took on the Miami-Dade police dept I would not be afraid of this. Animals as was said need their voices heard and we are the only ones who can speak for them. My mom used to tell me never trust anyone that does not like animals or an animal does not like. I almost got arrested in Spain once for yelling at a girl hitting her dog. She informed me it was her dog and she could do as she wanted..............well.................. I will do anything and I mean anything to help animals. I refused to donate for the storm aftermath in Puerto Rico because of the way they treat their animals. I jumped off a tour bus once to help a little puppy on the side of the road there. They don;t do anything to help their animals get spayed or neutered neither does Tahiti or a lot of countries. In Puerto Rico I donate to an organization called SAVE A SATO.

Besides if I got arrested I don;t think Azamara would like it or help me. If they can;t fix a web site this would be too much for them to handle..........lol

Kathy

I am sorry to hear your decision not to visit Petra because of what we perceive to be animal abuse...I too belong to an animal charity and hate what some poor animals have to suffer but we can't help them all...just the fortunate few.

You will miss a spectacular venue.

I am sorry to hear your decision not to visit Petra because of what we perceive to be animal abuse...I too belong to an animal charity and hate what some poor animals have to suffer but we can't help them all...just the fortunate few.

You will miss a spectacular venue.

And to be honest you are going to see quite a bit of abuse in many of the countries you are visiting on your cruise. I also see children I feel so much for but you cannot take on the worlds problems. You have to channel where you put your effort and how

I know there is animal abuse all over the world. I just don;t like it thrown in my face. I was upset in Egypt how they treat the poor donkeys. I even yell at the horse and buggies (yes UTOG I know them as buggies too..lol) in New York and Philly. I know me and I know I will make too much of a scene. I have to really really think about this. I don;t do anything rash and quickly. I already paid for the tour but I know I can cancel if I want. I just need to really decide if I can stand it and keep my mouth shut. Mouth shut is the real question.................

Kathy

I know there is animal abuse all over the world. I just don;t like it thrown in my face. I was upset in Egypt how they treat the poor donkeys. I even yell at the horse and buggies (yes UTOG I know them as buggies too..lol) in New York and Philly. I know me and I know I will make too much of a scene. I have to really really think about this. I don;t do anything rash and quickly. I already paid for the tour but I know I can cancel if I want. I just need to really decide if I can stand it and keep my mouth shut. Mouth shut is the real question.................

 

Kathy

Kathy

Whilst it only prevents your driver being abusive whilst you are there -- I always find that telling them that you will not give any baksheesh is enough of an incentive for them to behave how I expect.

Perhaps its one to discuss with the land tours folk on board.

Julie

Kathy

 

Whilst it only prevents your driver being abusive whilst you are there -- I always find that telling them that you will not give any baksheesh is enough of an incentive for them to behave how I expect.

 

Perhaps its one to discuss with the land tours folk on board.

 

Julie

Julie

Great idea but that would only help the horse for one trip and for sure not all of them. I need to do some research on this whole situation.

Thanks for the idea

Kathy

Julie

Great idea but that would only help the horse for one trip and for sure not all of them. I need to do some research on this whole situation.

 

Thanks for the idea

Kathy

If many of us tell the people in a polite way to be kind to their animals, if we tell the tour operators and if we tell the excursion team that abuse of animals is not something we would like to see when booking an excursion, we might achieve a change of behavior from the abusers. For them, tourism money is very important. Once they realize, we tourists care for the animals, they will try to please us. Of course we have to be careful how we say it. Not offending the people but very politely and respectfully requesting for them to be kind to their animals.

I am glad you have brought this subject. I am also going to Petra and I will try my best to make a difference for the animals. It is part of a responsible tourism and many operators realize that the welfare of animals should not be jeopardize in the name of tourism. For example Expedia informed not long ago that they will no be selling tours in which animal rights are not being respected.

Azamara listens to us and I am sure that they can also indicate to the operators that if we take their excursions we do not wish to experience situations in which animals are being abused.

Ivi

We too are going to Petra and will probably use a carriage. I have also heard that the animals are treated somewhat harshly by our standards. We shall simply say that there will be no tip if the driver treats his animal badly whilst we are there.

However i think it raises a wider question about animal attractions in general when on excursions.

We did a cruise that included a trip to Ko Samui and we went on an excursion that had an elephant ride. Whilst there was no suggestion or evidence that the elephants we rode on had been mistreated there has been some very bad press about the cruel way that some of these animals are trained in certain areas of Thailand. With hindsight we have had some regrets about doing that excursion.

I would ask Azamara to take a stand on this and give assurances that any excursions that include animal attractions have been thoroughly researched and vetted and they can categorically state that animal welfare is an absolute top priority.

As I understand it, the majority of tame elephants (particularly in Thailand) have been treated badly in order to tame them when very young. They are taken away from their mothers, then ‘crushed’ in a training stall to crush their spirits. I have ridden elephants, but never would again after I have researched elephant taming.

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Azamara do have connections with the World Wildlife fund and as a result have removed several excursions from their itineraries. The position in Petra is that the use of animals on the tour is an extra that the guest chooses to do or not. The cruise line therefore cannot be held responsible for what happens regarding the horses/ camels/ mules etc. You will actually notice that in many excursions the use of animal transport e.g. to reach places is not part of the excursion.

The choice for the original poster is either to walk on the excursion or do not go if they wish to avoid the animals. But as I said before, they are in that part of the world going to see a number of issues relating to people, animals etc that may well upset them, they have to understand that but cannot hold the cruise line responsible.

Azamara do have connections with the World Wildlife fund and as a result have removed several excursions from their itineraries. The position in Petra is that the use of animals on the tour is an extra that the guest chooses to do or not. The cruise line therefore cannot be held responsible for what happens regarding the horses/ camels/ mules etc. You will actually notice that in many excursions the use of animal transport e.g. to reach places is not part of the excursion.

The choice for the original poster is either to walk on the excursion or do not go if they wish to avoid the animals. But as I said before, they are in that part of the world going to see a number of issues relating to people, animals etc that may well upset them, they have to understand that but cannot hold the cruise line responsible.

No where in any of MY posts did I say I would hold the cruise line responsible. In fact I believe in their brochure they even say that if a person chooses to use them they are not responsible.

I don;t like it when people put words in my mouth. It is my decision whether or not I think I can deal with the walking and the animal abuse. I have literally been around the world which I said once already and I know animal abuse is prevalent everywhere. I know I cannot help every animal being abused. As I also said once I just don;t like it thrown in my face.

Maybe we should get off the topic of the animal abuse. I won;t be able to change it and need to decide if I can live with it and if my bad legs can handle the walking.............that is bottom line.........period

Thank you all for all your replys

Kathy

I have read these posts with interest and also checked Tripadvisor which has a similar thread. I think everyone trying to help the OP has been helpful and courteous. Some have taken a great deal of trouble to think about this moral issue. I have never been to Petra. I would love to go. Would I sit on a small, possibly underweight, donkey - No. I would walk but I would want to see this wonderful place for myself.

Cruisers are all affluent compared with many of those who are trying to make a living by accommodating our wish to travel. The donkey handler's children may also be thin and undernourished. It is, and always has been, a world of the have's and have nots.

Lastly I do no understand the OP's final post. Everyone on here has been so sympathetic and helpful. It is a dilemma we all face and the only way we can ameliorate the situation is to target our charity giving, both in terms of money, time and actual intervention, towards those things that are important to us individually

Hi all, we've also been to Petra with Azamara in May 2016 so having quickly looked at the past posts I would like to add some other observations. Having my time over again, and money not a factor I would opt for a private overnight tour that starts early at Petra. This is usually done to beat the crowds but seriously these days crowding isn't an issue but would beat the heat.

In the onboard shore excursion presentation animals cruelty was discussed. There is (and you can google it) a very active organisation called http://www.careforpetra.org/ who constantly checks on the health and wellbeing of the Petra animals each day. On principal we chose not to engage these services choosing to walk. The rides appeared downright dangerous, fast and rough. We're quite fit Aussies in our late 50's, used to heat here and doing lots of walking but it would be a challenge if you had any health or mobility issues. Coming back up was of course more of a challenge particularly in the midday heat. The surfaces whilst reasonably smooth are in places gravel. You could take hiking poles if you were unsteady on your feet. Prep with lots of preventive pain meds, I used panadol oesto because of some arthritis in my knees but managed fine. Take plenty of water.

However as someone has already said the drive there is stunning, and Petra just left us breathless at its beauty. If you can work a way to achieve this you would be amazed. We were also advised not to buy from the local child sellers as schooling is compulsory and parents are encouraged to have them at school rather than selling to the tourists at the site.

We were surprised at so much evidence of traditional Bedouin camps in the countryside and after our return to the Quest never felt more humbled, privileged and strangely sad that evening, knowing some people had so little and we had so much.

An experience that will stay with me forever.

You will make the best decision for you Kathy. Regards jenny

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Jenny, Excellent post. Thank you.

Pam (might meet again on another Azamara cruise!).