I will NEVER prebook pop up Sel de Mer again EVER - Heads up to 4 & 5* Mariners.

I'd go to the very top and call Oprah :)

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

 

ROFL M whatever off :)

 

 

i personally, prounounce this the winner of the week,,,, Any objections?

 

All in agreement, speak now or for ever whatever ...

Edited July 21, 2018 by sail7seas

Conventional business wisdom says it is more expensive to find a new customer than to retain an old one. But the reverse may be true on mass market ships offering layered loyalty programs.

Very true. The loyalty programs are so badly broken that their costs could exceed any additional future revenues anticipated from that segment of the customer-base - even if there is any such additional revenues forthcoming (which is doubtful).

 

However, "conventional business wisdom" is almost always misunderstood by the general public. There is a pretty nasty habit that consumers have with regard to internalizing any insights into business: They insist on things being dumbed down to the point where the accuracy and relevance of what is being relayed is wiped away entirely. They whine about long explanations and instead read a few choice words and think that that is actually what the message was.

 

The best example of this is the "conventional business wisdom" that the "customer is always right". Nothing could be further from the truth, but the myth was perpetuated because consumers liked the sound of it. The actual business wisdom is much more nuanced, but at the very least would have to be relayed as, "make the customer feel like they're always right." It is wisdom about the value of deceiving the customer into feel more valued than they actually are - clearly a lesson about business that many consumers are uncomfortable internalizing.

 

In this case, the, "Conventional business wisdom [that] says it is more expensive to find a new customer than to retain an old one," is also a dumbed-down corruption of the reality, which again is much more nuanced. Again, a lot more words would be necessary to reasonably explain the actual dynamics, but perhaps closer to the mark is, "keeping the right customers is valuable."

 

Here's a HBR article by Amy Gallo, interviewing Jill Avery, about this: https://hbr.org/2014/10/the-value-of-keeping-the-right-customers

 

The loyalty programs perpetuate a customer base that is a reflection of what Gallo terms, "an acquisition problem." The cruise line mistakenly focused on acquiring customers who cruise regularly instead of acquiring customers who would greatly contribute to revenues on a consistent basis. That decades-old disconnect is something that they have to work hard to remedy. As Avery points out, "The goal is to bring in and keep customers who you can provide value to and who are valuable to you." There is a cost to rectifying the past (working towards achieving that goal) in terms of customer churn.

 

bUU I think your conclusion is right on. HAL could reword for activity, cruise days in the past 12 months or perhaps the prior year. That world reward cruisers for recent activity and could be structured in a fair way. problem for HAL is he pr effect. If HAL management had the brains (big if) they could come up with an annual rewards program plus something for those in a discontnued Mariner program.

Precisely. They would, of course, have to grandfather in existing elites for a transition period, perhaps five years, but beyond that, these changes you've outlined would bring the cruise line in line with what Gallo and Avery were talking about, above. Edited July 21, 2018 by bUU

Just a note: On our recent March Rotterdam cruise, the information for the Sel de Mar clearly stated that Mariner discounts did not apply.

 

Perhaps the discount is left up to the discretion of each ship's management?

 

If that had been clearly stated for our cruise, I would have had no issue. It would have been my choice to go and pay full price or to cancel with sufficient notice and be refunded.

 

As it was, I had been told that Sel de Mer qualified (Mariner Society) and therefore had no reason to not expect the discount.

Same here!:(:rolleyes:

 

In fact, we probably will not pre-book any dinners, i.e., Pinnacle, Tamarind, until we board, as they seem to have problems rectifying the pricing after we board.

That has been my experience as a rule, too. I’ve given up pre booking.

Although I always get 50% back with no problem, we are five star and are entitled to our two free dinners. Trying to get the other 50% credited back is not worth the trips to the front desk.

They tend to do a number of credits and debits and you still wind up with your 50% owed. It’s easier to forget that perk or wait to book onboard.

 

An easy solution would be a box on the booking site where one could enter their Mariner number and not get charged in the first place.

We have never had a problem getting our Mariner discounts applied onboard- we use PG every night including Sel de Mer.

 

A few times we didn't see the discounts after a few days and mentioned it to the PG Manager at breakfast or dinner and saw the credits posted the next day.

It’s a nuisance to have to stand in line at Guest Services to have it rectified, so I just book PG when we’re on board.

 

 

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On Prinsendam, we asked the Pinnacle Manager, twice, to check with Seattle re Sel de Mer discount, as we had definitely paid half price on Koningsdam, and a friend, Sailing Dutchy, advised us while we were on Prinsendam, and he was on Rotterdam, that he had received the discount. The Pinnacle Manager told us she had been advised by Seattle that the loyalty discount did not apply to Sel de Mer....

kazu,

 

I appreciate your post and regret what you experienced. I rarely pre-book specialty restaurants. Your experience does not encourage me to do otherwise.

 

Same here - not worth the hassle, so we just book once on-board. Not a big deal to us if they are booked up.

It sounds to me like someone skimmed through your correspondence far too quickly and missed the fact that it was multiple dinners, not just the one. Hopefully your follow up will do the trick.(yn)

 

Same here. That happens far too many times with emails with customer service (not focusing that comment just at HAL).

 

Perhaps a reply to same email thanking them for fixing the 1 dinner and asking them (again) to fix the remainder. After all, he is indirectly acknowledging the mistake in the first part.

 

I’m sure he will feel so much better when he reads and processes the WHOLE email and fixes the problem he compounded by not reading. After all, missing the number of meals not discounted really is disheartening.:halo: And (probably not going to happen) comping you both a dinner in SdM on your next cruise could go a long way to fix your disheartened state (being they can’t roll back time and have a re-do).

Just a note: On our recent March Rotterdam cruise, the information for the Sel de Mar clearly stated that Mariner discounts did not apply.

 

Perhaps the discount is left up to the discretion of each ship's management?

 

I was a bit shocked to read about your experience. We were on the Rotterdam Feb (21 days), my husband wasn’t interested in Sel de Mer so I invited a guest, and yes there was a 50% discount.

Funny thing is that the FAQ on the HAL website indicates that most dinners in the specialty restaurants qualify for the discount:

 

 

What restaurants qualify for 3, 4, and 5-Star discounts?

The Pinnacle Grill, Canaletto and Tamarind all qualify for Star Level discounts. Le Cirque and De Librije and themed evenings in the Pinnacle Grill such as Chinese Dinner, Japanese Dinner, Indonesian Dinner, Australian Dinner, South America Dinner and Radio Show Dinner also receive Star Level discounts. Master Chef Dinner, Cellar Master Dinner, and restaurant packages are excluded from the discounts.

 

Now this is out of date because they refer to Le Cirque but SDM replaced Le Cirque so the same rules should apply. I have SDM booked for our upcoming cruise. I'll contact the Mariner Society to get confirmation in writing that the discount applies and advise them to update their FAQ info.

Do not assume that any email correspondence coming from HAL is actually human-generated. Kazu, I know you are savvy enough to track down and speak to a real live responsible human being on the other end of a telephone to get your answers. I wish you a satisfactory resolution.

SMH. "HAL doesn't love us anymore!" Delusional, much?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

You may want to look up the meaning of the word "sarcasm".:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Leaving on the Prinsendam Aug 5. Wanted a letter to take with me so I could book Sel de Mer. Here is what Mariner's society sent.

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line. Yes the Mariner discount does apply to the specialty restaurant Rudi's Sel de Mer on the Prinsendam. The discount is actually applicable to all specialty dining venues, the only time the Mariner discount does not apply is if you purchased an already discounted package of multiple dining experiences.

 

That is exactly what we have experienced however, we have had occasion where one ship will do something different.

kazu,

 

Your post #35 where you said "I grew to hate the word night auditor" rang a bell for me. When my traveling companion and I sailed on the Prinsendam, there was one billing issue, probably involved the PG and my Mariner Status, but I don't recall for sure. What I do recall was that "the night auditor" was responsible for the problem according to the Front Desk personnel. This explanation persisted until I insisted that I wanted to speak to the Guest Relations Manager. At that point, one of the Front Desk staff, who had been an observer and not involved in my conversations with another staff member, jumped in and said that she would get the billing situation corrected with the night auditor. Overnight, the problem was resolved. I returned to the Front Desk when the woman was on duty and thanked her for her help.

 

I am not being critical of the pleasant men and women who staff the Front Office, but their training and ability to solve problems does not always solve a guest's problems I have come to believe.

 

I have had too many instances on a HAL ship where the Front Office staff are not well informed on matters that are not really part of their usual routine. But, uniformly, they are most personnable and pleasant crew members. I don't blame them. I blame their preparation for the position that they have. (And, this has been going on prior to the Ashford Administration in Seattle.)

kazu,

 

Your post #35 where you said "I grew to hate the word night auditor" rang a bell for me. When my traveling companion and I sailed on the Prinsendam, there was one billing issue, probably involved the PG and my Mariner Status, but I don't recall for sure. What I do recall was that "the night auditor" was responsible for the problem according to the Front Desk personnel. This explanation persisted until I insisted that I wanted to speak to the Guest Relations Manager. At that point, one of the Front Desk staff, who had been an observer and not involved in my conversations with another staff member, jumped in and said that she would get the billing situation corrected with the night auditor. Overnight, the problem was resolved. I returned to the Front Desk when the woman was on duty and thanked her for her help.

 

I am not being critical of the pleasant men and women who staff the Front Office, but their training and ability to solve problems does not always solve a guest's problems I have come to believe.

 

I have had too many instances on a HAL ship where the Front Office staff are not well informed on matters that are not really part of their usual routine. But, uniformly, they are most personnable and pleasant crew members. I don't blame them. I blame their preparation for the position that they have. (And, this has been going on prior to the Ashford Administration in Seattle.)

I know what you are saying. Front desk personnel are somewhat robotic in many respects. Their answers are pre programmed and a question that falls outside a pre programmed response really throws them for a loop.

I have learnt to detest the terms “technical difficulty” and “my colleague”.

Another personal favourite is “you are the first person to have that problem”.

I spent two days once trying to get someone to fix my balcony door lock and was having no luck. Finally I was told it was not a problem because nobody could get in that way. I told the nice front desk lady I was well aware of what happened on the NA and I wanted my lock fixed. After that it was fixed so fast it would make your head spin.

What happened on the NA?

We have never had a problem getting our Mariner discounts applied onboard- we use PG every night including Sel de Mer.

 

A few times we didn't see the discounts after a few days and mentioned it to the PG Manager at breakfast or dinner and saw the credits posted the next day.

 

 

I have never had any question or issue a bout gett ting the approrpriate 5 star discount when we actually dined on re servatons made in advance on line I have never had to ask for it. They always automatially posted it.

You say you booked 10 dinners, was everyone a 5 star mariner? You only get the benefits for yourself and your cabin mates. So if all 10 folks were not in your cabin you only the discount on 2 dinners.

Mariner Society FAQ's

 

Question: Can I extend my benefits (such as 25% and 50% discount at select food and beverage outlets) to shipmates.

 

Answer: No, benefits are for the personal use of the applicable guest and those sharing a stateroom on the same billing number. HAL reserves the right to limit benefits if necessary.

 

Abusing HAL and their fine employees, because you obviously did not read, or understand how the discounts works, is an action that appears to justify an apology.

You say you booked 10 dinners, was everyone a 5 star mariner? You only get the benefits for yourself and your cabin mates. So if all 10 folks were not in your cabin you only the discount on 2 dinners.

 

Mariner Society FAQ's

 

Question: Can I extend my benefits (such as 25% and 50% discount at select food and beverage outlets) to shipmates.

 

Answer: No, benefits are for the personal use of the applicable guest and those sharing a stateroom on the same billing number. HAL reserves the right to limit benefits if necessary.

 

Abusing HAL and their fine employees, because you obviously did not read, or understand how the discounts works, is an action that appears to justify an apology.

To whom are you directing your comments? Could you provide the post number(s)?

You say you booked 10 dinners, was everyone a 5 star mariner? You only get the benefits for yourself and your cabin mates. So if all 10 folks were not in your cabin you only the discount on 2 dinners.

 

Mariner Society FAQ's

 

Question: Can I extend my benefits (such as 25% and 50% discount at select food and beverage outlets) to shipmates.

 

Answer: No, benefits are for the personal use of the applicable guest and those sharing a stateroom on the same billing number. HAL reserves the right to limit benefits if necessary.

 

Abusing HAL and their fine employees, because you obviously did not read, or understand how the discounts works, is an action that appears to justify an apology.

 

From the original post: "We had 6 Sel de Mer dinners prepaid for" so your "10" is inaccurate. This was a pretty long cruise, and AFAIK the poster had at least 3 opportunities to book dinners for herself and her husband. Please confirm your information before you accuse the OP of "abusing" HAL and its employees.

 

Additionally, if you read the thread you will see that HAL's own FAQs support the discount for Sel de Mer.

I still have the following report saved:

:eek::loudcry:

It sounds to me like someone skimmed through your correspondence far too quickly and missed the fact that it was multiple dinners, not just the one. Hopefully your follow up will do the trick.(yn)

 

 

 

Agree.

 

 

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I have never had any question or issue a bout gett ting the approrpriate 5 star discount when we actually dined on re servatons made in advance on line I have never had to ask for it. They always automatially posted it.

 

My experience mirrors your experience to a "T". I guess we haven't made the list of 4- and 5-Star Mariners that HAL wants to "get rid of" ...