New Flyer, is PE worth it for long-haul?

If I am flying from the USA to the Far East I am going to favor airlines like Singapore, Cathay Pacific and even China Air over United! If heading east I would be looking at some of the European Airlines....but would fist evaluate the top Middle Eastern airlines such as Etihad and Emirates before I would even consider Untied, American or Delta! This is even more true when considering Premium Economy, Business and First.

So many generalizations here. The US carriers have really upped their game lately, there are quite a few instances where I would pick a US carrier over Emirates or some of the much lauded Middle Eastern carriers. Some of their configurations are abysmal whereas AA now offer direct aisle access in all their business class seats on longhaul aircraft. Delta now offer suites on their A350 aircraft and United's Polaris is also a pretty decent option (if the aircraft is so equipped).

Meanwhile, fuel prices have decreased, aircraft have become much more fuel efficient, and prices climb out of the stratosphere. As frequent travelers we are forced to accept this nearly inhumane treatment. And in our experience, Delta is the best of the 3 major US airlines (you do not even want to hear my rants about AA and United).

Really? Prices are amongst the lowest they've ever been relative to inflation. As someone who claims to be a regular traveler you should know that....and the fact that if you are a regular traveler there are plenty of low or zero cost ways to improve the experience from "nearly inhumane". Free access to exit rows/Economy Plus/Comfort Plus/Main Cabin Extra products and the like. if you're whoring yourself out to the cheapest carrier then enjoy the pennies in your pocket, if you aren't then enjoy the premium cabin benefits...

Don't confuses Delta's PE, called Premium Select, with their Comfort+, which is just slightly enhanced economy.

Repeating this for emphasis. It seems that many online travel agencies and google flights code comfort+ as premium economy. It is NOT a premium economy product. American is the only of the three major legacy U.S. carriers offering a true premium economy product at this point -- except for a very few delta flights out of DTW to Asia on the A350 and occasional flights from DTW to AMS -- which as noted is called premium select.

Now, it looks as though delta's premium select is actually a very nice product. Moreover, if you purchase an international premium select ticket at the moment, you are mapped into first class for any U.S. domestic connecting legs (which is not the case with American). So, as they add more premium select routes in the coming years this may turn out to be a very nice intermediate option between coach and business. But do not be fooled into thinking that "premium economy" will put you in this product -- you need to check very carefully. Only premium select is the true PE product.

(One minor caveat -- on some routes flown by 757s that do not have modern lie-flat business seats, Delta will be selling these older business class seats as premium select seats. I think they are doing this on some of their transat flights to Ireland and Iceland -- if you get "premium select" on one of those routes, it will be a true upgraded experience from comfort+ and worth paying a premium.)

Has anyone used Princess easy air and been able to pick a particular airline in PE ?

Is there a website that shows all airlines aircrafts and their routes? In search of which air crafts have the best true premium economy in regards to comfort from US to London in September. I have visited seatguru with some of the routes I am watching but each air craft seems to have different versions with slight variations. We are not limited to one outgoing or return destination city to get there. Just looking for top options across all air crafts for comfort in premium economy.

Is there a website that shows all airlines aircrafts and their routes? In search of which air crafts have the best true premium economy in regards to comfort from US to London in September. I have visited seatguru with some of the routes I am watching but each air craft seems to have different versions with slight variations. We are not limited to one outgoing or return destination city to get there. Just looking for top options across all air crafts for comfort in premium economy.

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Lufthansa was great. Flew a few months ago. Waiting to see what product United comes up with

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Both Virgin Atlantic and British Airways offer a true PE service on all their trans-atlantic routes. My preference of the two would be Virgin.

 

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Great! Thanks!

Lufthansa was great. Flew a few months ago. Waiting to see what product United comes up with

 

 

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Thanks! Will check them out.

Lufthansa was great. Flew a few months ago. Waiting to see what product United comes up with

 

 

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Not much help as Lufthansa do not fly into LHR from the US.

You mean they don't fly a routing like USA - FRA - LHR??

Oh, you meant to say they don't fly NON-STOP. Big difference.

For any number of reasons, one might choose to fly to London via FRA. Or not.

First thank all of you experienced flyers for any advice!

 

 

 

I would consider us "new" flyers.

 

 

 

A little background. I flew extensively as a child even long haul flights, but my husband has been on a place for 2 trips, both relatively short under 2 1/2 hours. He is a very nervous flyer also. My husband is the taller of us... at a whole 5'4 so you know.. generally shorter than most women even :)

 

 

 

Trying to decide on flights for our Med Cruise. I would like to go with the Delta/Air France one in PE. With the flights it currently breaks down to the flights being in 1st, PE, then Economy based on the planes and then the reverse on the way home. I have to find time to call my TA or Delta to see if we can do Econ, PE, Econ and save some $$

 

 

 

On the other hand.. I can go United PE for about $500 less, but I understand that United PE is just a slightly bigger seat and well.. being short I dislike the thought of paying the flight price for just extra "leg room" and nothing else.

 

 

 

On the other hand, I can get Economy flights for all legs for about $1000 less than the PE with Delta/Air France with Delta, United, or Lufthansa.

 

 

 

Now the money isn't an issue, thought Air is going to end up costing almost as much as the 13 day cruise in a suite which is bonkers but this is why we drive instead of flying in general)

 

 

 

How do you all find that PE compared to E on 9+ hour flights? While there are other airlines whose times meet our needs, their price is comparable and well.. Air France just seems to give more for the $$.

 

 

 

I remember feeling like this the first time I ever booked a cruise myself almost 8 years ago and feeling lost and confused and I have come to realize that air travel is so much scarier to book!!

New service on United:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/grantmartin/2018/01/19/united-airlines-to-launch-premium-economy-cabins-in-2018/#4575533e2c60

IMO, anything longer than six hours deserves bizclass.

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Air France Premium economy is sest that slides in a shell and does not recline innthe normal sense. Many bad reviews. I went Lufthansa instead after reading the reviews. Avoid.Here is a review:

Air France Premium EconomyReview. Plenty of legroom and width, but very uncomfortable for sleeping. The seats do not recline, the seat back is at a fixed angle, you sort of slide down, moving your bottom forward pushing your head down into your chest.

It is worth the cost for me. Depends how uncomfortable you get in coach

You mean they don't fly a routing like USA - FRA - LHR??

 

Oh, you meant to say they don't fly NON-STOP. Big difference.

 

For any number of reasons, one might choose to fly to London via FRA. Or not.

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Bit older thread but we have some experience with this and if it helps anyone we’re just back from flying PEY on AA, LAX to SYD return. Our AA flights actually began and ended in Detroit but were economy MCE except for the very long haul transPacific flights. In comparison we’ve flown CX PEY from YYZ to MEL via HKG last year and on NZ AKL to SFO the year before. In comparing any of these premium economy products to their own economy seats, well, there is no comparison. The seats, recline and leg room are far better (more like domestic first) and, with variations amongst the airlines, food, drinks and service are also much better than economy.

Our first trip to Australia in 2016 we were on an NZ ticket but flew the United 787-9 in economy plus, LA to Melbourne, for which, as has been said, the only benefit was a few extra inches of leg room. On the return we were on NZ metal and bid for (and won) an upgrade to PEY. After that I told my husband I was not doing the trip again unless we could afford prem econ. It was absolutely wonderful in all respects.

On Cathay Pacific in 2017 we were premium economy on all flights and while it didn’t quite measure up to NZ service and amenity wise it was still a wonderful experience and well worth the extra $ above economy. One really cool bonus was that they have a camera mounted near the landing gear which was visible via the air show on IFE and you could watch landing and take off from that perspective and take a peek below the plane at various points in the journey. The flight path for that one was over the North Pole which was really interesting visually.

We just got back this week from our daughter’s wedding in Australia having flown AA PEY on the 787-9. The cabin is small and quiet, with only three rows and there are bathrooms at the front that are shared with biz which was a nice bonus. On the way over economy passengers were not allowed to use those bathrooms. On the way back it was a free for all which did take away from the quietness of the cabin. The seats were very comfortable although only the bulkhead row has full foot rest (same as CX - NZ had full footrests in all PEY rows on the 777) but I have a small inflatable foot rest and was able to get some decent sleep both ways. Recline is good even though everything I read before said it was terrible. We prefer the last row of PEY and I had read that the seats had limited recline but I didn’t find that to be the case. My mother in law and niece were directly in front of us and had same recline. IFE was great. Air show underwhelming. Amenity kit was quite nice in a small Cole Haan leather pouch. The food and service though, just didn’t come close to either CX or NZ. Just no comparison at all. The flight home had somewhat more attentive flight attendants than the way over (who were rarely seen) and we just had so much lousy service from AA from the time since booking to throughout the journey ( an involuntary change of flight with shortened connection time resulting in two missed connections for son and daughter in law beginning at LAX on the way home and an outrageously awful customer service desk agent when trying to get reassigned) that it would have to be all about price to get me to choose them again.

Thank you for the detailed comparisons between different airlines' premium economy products. These are hard to come by, so it's really useful to have this from someone who's tried them.

Thank you for the detailed comparisons between different airlines' premium economy products. These are hard to come by, so it's really useful to have this from someone who's tried them.

Thank you!:)

The problem with PE is that it is a truly meaningless term. On one airline it might mean you get 2 inches more of pitch (legroom) while on others you might get a 160 degree recliner seat (in a shell). So while Air New Zealand might give you 10 inches more of legroom (that is a lot) and a wider seat....Untied is likely to give you a regular economy seat with 2-3 inches of extra space.

When booking PE or even Business we spend a lot of time looking at the type aircraft on the route and the seat specs (Seatguru is our go to site for this info). It can also be helpful to just Google the airline and class of service and read some recent reviews...if you can find any for your route and/or type of aircraft.

Hank

The problem with PE is that it is a truly meaningless term. On one airline it might mean you get 2 inches more of pitch (legroom) while on others you might get a 160 degree recliner seat (in a shell). So while Air New Zealand might give you 10 inches more of legroom (that is a lot) and a wider seat....Untied is likely to give you a regular economy seat with 2-3 inches of extra space.

Premium Economy to the average consumer is meaningless because people misuse it. Premium Economy to the airline industry is a very real, meaningful term. Now, of course, there are differences within PE across the board (just like there are within Business and First...one look at AA's 757 business class and Etihad's A380 business class will show that), but PE is a meaningful term in the industry. United doesn't have PE...nor do they claim to. But a lot of people incorrectly put the PE label on their Economy Plus (a few extra inches of legroom and nothing else), and that's how it can become meaningless.

It seems to me that PE is a recognised seat configuration for European and Australian/Far Eastern airlines. The issue is that certain US airlines have 'acquired ' the terminology and ascribed it to seating that, at, best, can be described as 'extra legroom'.

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It seems to me that PE is a recognised seat configuration for European and Australian/Far Eastern airlines. The issue is that certain US airlines have 'acquired ' the terminology and ascribed it to seating that, at, best, can be described as 'extra legroom'.

 

 

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I personally have never seen a US carrier claim to have PE other than AA, who actually does have PE now. It's the consumers who are (incorrectly) calling it PE.

I personally have never seen a US carrier claim to have PE other than AA, who actually does have PE now. It's the consumers who are (incorrectly) calling it PE.

Absolutely true, though DL is bringing out an international PE product. Slowly and on limited routes.

I personally have never seen a US carrier claim to have PE other than AA, who actually does have PE now. It's the consumers who are (incorrectly) calling it PE.

AA is definitely the first US carrier to have a true PE product. It was nice and a vast improvement over economy (or economy plus or main cabin extra or the various other names for a bit of extra leg room) but not to the caliber of the Far East airlines. Some of us that can’t afford business for 14-16 hour flights are definitely heavily researching, trying out and appreciating the various PE offerings.

But a lot of people incorrectly put the PE label on their Economy Plus (a few extra inches of legroom and nothing else), and that's how it can become meaningless.

It's the consumers who are (incorrectly) calling it PE.

Thank you for the detailed comparisons between different airlines' premium economy products. These are hard to come by, so it's really useful to have this from someone who's tried them.

SeatGuru's comparison table is good, but as with all things SeatGuru, don't take it as gospel.

https://www.seatguru.com/charts/premium_economy.php

I personally have never seen a US carrier claim to have PE other than AA, who actually does have PE now. It's the consumers who are (incorrectly) calling it PE.

On the new A350, most of the DL flights with PE (Premium Select) are out of DTW, going to Asia. One flight to AMS.

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/up-close-with-delta-premium-select/

It appears they are reconfiguring some 757's out of JFK.

http://pointsmilesandmartinis.boardingarea.com/2017/11/delta-premium-select-transatlantic/