RFID Chip sleeves

With the protections credit card companies provide these days, I don't overly fret about the risks. If my card gets skimmed, I will not be held responsible for the charges if I report the card. My banks do a superior job of monitoring for fraudulent charges and will notify me even when I am not aware of charges.

This ^^^

Normally they catch if with the first fraudulent charge.

Even the time when they did not catch it, not a big deal. Told them which charges were not mine, and they removed them. Done.

That one was funny, as the idiots bought 4 airline tickets, which require NAMES.

Sounds nice and handy. Chip cards in the US have no relationship to an RFID system.

If you have a card that includes a ‘paywave’ feature, then RFID is in play.

I just checked all my cards, only one is RFID. And I seldom use that one, so if it gets hacked, no big deal.

I do wish that US cards would add the PIN to the chip feature.

I have a bank debit card that wasn't supposed to be valid without the 4 digit PIN. I used it at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club (both related companies) and they processed the charges without the PIN number. I now use my CC as a primary method of payments. I have had my credit card hacked 3 times, it was easy to correct with the CC company so no biggie. I do have a purse that has built in RFID protection...just came that way.

My funny RFID story came last February in Orlando FL, I had my passport in a protective case and couldn't get through the metal detector without setting it off. The TSA lady sent me through 3 times, kept asking me if I had any metal implanted, "said nope" Another TSA guy from 2 lanes over saw I was had my passport in my hand. He had me hand it to him and walk through the detector again, no problem. He said most go through without a problem, some cases have enough metal to set the alarms off.

I believe this summarizes - credit card issuers protect you against unauthorized usage and debit cards cannot be accessed without PIN. I think the hype is largely scare mongering.

My funny RFID story came last February in Orlando FL, I had my passport in a protective case and couldn't get through the metal detector without setting it off. The TSA lady sent me through 3 times, kept asking me if I had any metal implanted, "said nope" Another TSA guy from 2 lanes over saw I was had my passport in my hand. He had me hand it to him and walk through the detector again, no problem. He said most go through without a problem, some cases have enough metal to set the alarms off.

Kind of a double whammy...US passports have an RFID screen built into the cover....then you have a protective case with another RFID screen.

I have a bank debit card that wasn't supposed to be valid without the 4 digit PIN. I used it at Wal-Mart and Sam's Club (both related companies) and they processed the charges without the PIN number.

Some debit cards can be processed as charge also.

We used to do this with a former bank, as many stores charged a surcharge for debit, but not for credit card. Either way, the payment came directly out of our checking account.

And with ours, if we selected Debit, we had to enter the PIN. If we selected Credit, no PIN was required, but you had to sign.

Bottom line, I think people like to worry about things. And if they don't have something real to worry about, they make up new things. :D

If that makes you happy, best to you.

The fact that the credit card company will cover fraudulent charges is great -- but it still will cost me. And you. And everyone. Do you think that money comes out of thin air? Just like insurance fraud, it costs us all - so if I can decrease fraudulent charges with something easy, inexpensive, and low-maintenance, I will. I hate to think I'm paying higher prices because other people are flippant about the the need to be safe with their information.

The fact that the credit card company will cover fraudulent charges is great -- but it still will cost me. And you. And everyone. Do you think that money comes out of thin air? Just like insurance fraud, it costs us all - so if I can decrease fraudulent charges with something easy, inexpensive, and low-maintenance, I will. I hate to think I'm paying higher prices because other people are flippant about the the need to be safe with their information.

Your feelings are noble and good, but you don't have to go thru many compromised cards to learn that the banks don't care. To them it is just the cost of doing business.

I cannot remember the last time I read or heard about someone being pursued and prosecuted for stealing and using someone's credit card.

I used to fret over being the victim....now my only concern is remembering all of the automatic payments I have to tell about my new CC number.

You can be the most cautious consumer in the world, but you will still be a victim if you used a card at a place like Target or other chain store who has their data stolen. Worse, literally everyone (in the US, can't speak for Canada) has a credit rating....and one of the three was compromised last year....taking the data of hundreds millions. Many of these likely had no credit cards at all.

Your feelings are noble and good, but you don't have to go thru many compromised cards to learn that the banks don't care. To them it is just the cost of doing business.

 

I cannot remember the last time I read or heard about someone being pursued and prosecuted for stealing and using someone's credit card.

 

I used to fret over being the victim....now my only concern is remembering all of the automatic payments I have to tell about my new CC number.

 

You can be the most cautious consumer in the world, but you will still be a victim if you used a card at a place like Target or other chain store who has their data stolen. Worse, literally everyone (in the US, can't speak for Canada) has a credit rating....and one of the three was compromised last year....taking the data of hundreds millions. Many of these likely had no credit cards at all.

I think you've missed my point: I don't care whether the banks care or not, and how they feel isn't a factor in what I do. I know the banks don't care - they don't care because it's not ultimately costing them money. When they lose money, they will just earn it all back from all of us with higher prices/charges. I'm cautious not because I don't want to be "a victim", I'm cautious because I don't want the banks to have to spend more money and therefore charge us all more to make up for it.

Your feelings are noble and good, but you don't have to go thru many compromised cards to learn that the banks don't care. To them it is just the cost of doing business.

 

I cannot remember the last time I read or heard about someone being pursued and prosecuted for stealing and using someone's credit card.

People in the business I have talked to say they DO pursue them. And it takes something like 4 - 7 thefts by the same person for them to catch up to them.

I think you've missed my point: I don't care whether the banks care or not, and how they feel isn't a factor in what I do. I know the banks don't care - they don't care because it's not ultimately costing them money. When they lose money, they will just earn it all back from all of us with higher prices/charges. I'm cautious not because I don't want to be "a victim", I'm cautious because I don't want the banks to have to spend more money and therefore charge us all more to make up for it.

What higher prices?

If you pay off every month, they make nothing from you directly. They do make something from the vendor via percentage of the transaction.

What higher prices?

 

If you pay off every month, they make nothing from you directly. They do make something from the vendor via percentage of the transaction.

They make money from you directly in other banking goods and services (credit card services don't exist in a bubble - they're only part of what banks provide us with, for a cost). And/or they earn it indirectly, because we pay higher prices for goods and services that retailers charge consumers so they can make up for the higher rates that the banks charge them for accepting their cards......Credit card transactions cost businesses anywhere from 1.5% to 3% in fees for every transaction, and they will pass that cost on to us. So as banks try to make more money, they charge businesses more, and we pay end up paying more.

They make money from you directly in other banking goods and services (credit card services don't exist in a bubble - they're only part of what banks provide us with, for a cost). And/or they earn it indirectly, because we pay higher prices for goods and services that retailers charge consumers so they can make up for the higher rates that the banks charge them for accepting their cards......Credit card transactions cost businesses anywhere from 1.5% to 3% in fees for every transaction, and they will pass that cost on to us. So as banks try to make more money, they charge businesses more, and we pay end up paying more.

Since you clearly have a low opinion of how the average person handles his/her credit cards, by appointing yourself the resident expert on this you should be able to provide a solution to the problem. What is it? That solution must be user friendly and not some convoluted and unusable solution that no one will subscribe to. Either provide a solution we can adopt or stop putting all the blame on the consumers.

They make money from you directly in other banking goods and services (credit card services don't exist in a bubble - they're only part of what banks provide us with, for a cost). And/or they earn it indirectly, because we pay higher prices for goods and services that retailers charge consumers so they can make up for the higher rates that the banks charge them for accepting their cards......Credit card transactions cost businesses anywhere from 1.5% to 3% in fees for every transaction, and they will pass that cost on to us. So as banks try to make more money, they charge businesses more, and we pay end up paying more.

Most of the cards I have, the ONLY service from that bank is the card.

And the fees they charge depend on the type of card (there are limited set by VISA, etc). And they have to be competitive. AMEX charges more, and many places will not take them due to the higher fees.

Remember, the card companies are in competition with each other also.

And fees to retailers have stayed the same, or gone down for many years. So how are we paying more for all the fraud???????

Don't banks carrry fraud insurance?

Since you clearly have a low opinion of how the average person handles his/her credit cards, by appointing yourself the resident expert on this you should be able to provide a solution to the problem. What is it? That solution must be user friendly and not some convoluted and unusable solution that no one will subscribe to. Either provide a solution we can adopt or stop putting all the blame on the consumers.

I am a consumer! I don't put all the blame on consumers, I put SOME of the blame on people who think they don't have to worry about it because someone else will pay for it, not realizing they are part of the people who will end up paying for it.

A solution starts with people's attitudes and taking personal responsibility - and not just thinking it's all OK because "insurance", "the bank" or someone else will pay for it. Essentially, take responsibility for your actions and don't defraud insurance companies (no one here has mentioned insurance fraud, but it's part of the same mindset that if a big, anonymous company is going to pay for it, nobody loses so it's OK).

Taking responsibility means taking reasonable measures not to allow your money (or assets) to be stolen.......of course there will still be theft, but do what you can and don't blow it off because you can't stop everything. Use RFID blocking sleeves if you've got that type of technology in your card. Don't write your PIN down on your card (yes I've seen that) or in your wallet, and don't give it out to others. Don't use the same PIN for multiple cards. Really, it's not all that difficult to take reasonable, easy precautions. Just like using unique and meaningless passwords for your banking websites. If you can't remember all your passwords, get a password-vault program on your phone or computer so you just have to remember one password to unlock the vault (and make that one a damn good password).

I am a consumer! I don't put all the blame on consumers, I put SOME of the blame on people who think they don't have to worry about it because someone else will pay for it, not realizing they are part of the people who will end up paying for it.

 

A solution starts with people's attitudes and taking personal responsibility - and not just thinking it's all OK because "insurance", "the bank" or someone else will pay for it. Essentially, take responsibility for your actions and don't defraud insurance companies (no one here has mentioned insurance fraud, but it's part of the same mindset that if a big, anonymous company is going to pay for it, nobody loses so it's OK).

 

 

Taking responsibility means taking reasonable measures not to allow your money (or assets) to be stolen.......of course there will still be theft, but do what you can and don't blow it off because you can't stop everything. Use RFID blocking sleeves if you've got that type of technology in your card. Don't write your PIN down on your card (yes I've seen that) or in your wallet, and don't give it out to others. Don't use the same PIN for multiple cards. Really, it's not all that difficult to take reasonable, easy precautions. Just like using unique and meaningless passwords for your banking websites. If you can't remember all your passwords, get a password-vault program on your phone or computer so you just have to remember one password to unlock the vault (and make that one a damn good password).

I am not as pessimistic as you are. I believe that most people take reasonable precautions, so I am not as paranoid as you about people misusing their credit cards. We differ in that important distinction.

I am not as pessimistic as you are. I believe that most people take reasonable precautions, so I am not as paranoid as you about people misusing their credit cards. We differ in that important distinction.

Same here.

My card is a debit card only....No Mastercard or Visa logo. It is supposed to be invalid without a PIN, so much for that idea.

Some debit cards can be processed as charge also.

 

We used to do this with a former bank, as many stores charged a surcharge for debit, but not for credit card. Either way, the payment came directly out of our checking account.

 

And with ours, if we selected Debit, we had to enter the PIN. If we selected Credit, no PIN was required, but you had to sign.

I am not as pessimistic as you are. I believe that most people take reasonable precautions, so I am not as paranoid as you about people misusing their credit cards. We differ in that important distinction.

Not really........I'm not paranoid about people misusing my cards, and I think my precautions are simple and reasonable (even though real security people would say what I do is laughably weak). But I am angry at people who feel they don't need to bother taking reasonable precautions because "someone else" will cover the cost - an attitude expressed in this thread.

Not really........I'm not paranoid about people misusing my cards, and I think my precautions are simple and reasonable (even though real security people would say what I do is laughably weak). But I am angry at people who feel they don't need to bother taking reasonable precautions because "someone else" will cover the cost - an attitude expressed in this thread.

Well, I save my anger for important issues, not something that at worst only costs me a few pennies a year. :rolleyes:

Curiosity here...please detail and document how people are doing this...

don't need to bother taking reasonable precautions

What reasonable precautions are these folks neglecting??

Curiosity here...please detail and document how people are doing this...

 

 

What reasonable precautions are these folks neglecting??

I’d define reasonable precautions as the steps the bank asks me to take. At the moment, my bank is not suggesting RFID protective sleeves for credit or debit cards, so I don’t think I’m neglecting reasonable precautions.

Has anyone done a study of how well crooks with RFID readers do when cards are carried in a clump, as most people carry them? I’d think all the information would come out jumbled up if there’s more than one card in a pocket or wallet.

I’d define reasonable precautions as the steps the bank asks me to take. At the moment, my bank is not suggesting RFID protective sleeves for credit or debit cards, so I don’t think I’m neglecting reasonable precautions.

 

Has anyone done a study of how well crooks with RFID readers do when cards are carried in a clump, as most people carry them? I’d think all the information would come out jumbled up if there’s more than one card in a pocket or wallet.

If the banks and credit card companies were really concerned about their cards being hacked they would have adopted the same protections that most of the rest of the world has. In the US finally have cards with embedded chips. But a pin number is not part of the protections as they are in Europe and elsewhere. The banks and card companies adamantly argued against adopting that level of protections because of expense of converting to such a system.

Instead, we had been required to sign the receipt, which is not as secure. Anyone who can read the name on the front of the card can sign that name since there isn't a comparison to a master signature as part of the security process. And just last month the credit card companies have announced that even the signature is no longer required, which makes sense since it isn't being matched anyway. Requiring a signature just slows up the check out process without adding a single bit of value. This is especially true with card reader devices where you enter a signature on a touch display using a finger as the pen. Such signatures are almost unreadable and totally useless.

If the banks and credit card companies were really concerned about their cards being hacked they would have adopted the same protections that most of the rest of the world has. In the US finally have cards with embedded chips. But a pin number is not part of the protections as they are in Europe and elsewhere. The banks and card companies adamantly argued against adopting that level of protections because of expense of converting to such a system.

 

Instead, we had been required to sign the receipt, which is not as secure. Anyone who can read the name on the front of the card can sign that name since there isn't a comparison to a master signature as part of the security process. And just last month the credit card companies have announced that even the signature is no longer required, which makes sense since it isn't being matched anyway. Requiring a signature just slows up the check out process without adding a single bit of value. This is especially true with card reader devices where you enter a signature on a touch display using a finger as the pen. Such signatures are almost unreadable and totally useless.

Well said!!

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