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China Southern vs Qantas


Hlitner
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We are looking at flights from JFK to Brisbane and there are a few Business Class options. Among our choices are Delta, Qantas and China Southern. Qantas is flying the 787-9 with a short stop-over at LAX. China Southern has a 777-300ER with a non-stop hop to Guangzhou, a 5 hour layover, and then on to Brisbane on a A330-300. All things being equal we would quickly book Qantas. But China Southern is about $2000 per person cheaper. China Southern has lay flat seats although we suspect they might not be quite as nice as the ones on Qantas.

 

So my question for the experts is do you think its worth the extra $4000 (for 2 persons) to fly Qantas?

 

Hank

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Having flown on China Southern (and China Eastern), I would say that they are a step down from the service and product that you would find on the top-tier Asian airlines. How that stacks up versus Qantas, I can't answer, not having flown "the flying rat" (look at the tail logo for where that nickname arose). I can say that if flying from JFK to BNE, I would probably be looking beyond just the options you have mentioned.

 

China Southern (CZ) has an adequate business class seat on the 777, but the 330 has a dated design that does not give full aisle access for all biz passengers, and some are still angled-flat seats. And that leg from Guangzhou (CAN) to BNE is over 4800 miles - longer than JFK to Rio - and is a long time to be in an old-style seat.

 

China Eastern (MU) also serves JFK, but their 777 has a reverse herringbone seat that's better (IMO) than the design on CZ. And they have 330s with reverse-herringbone (along with older angled-flat), so what equipment is on your route is important.

 

Both of these airlines tend to be "discount biz" in terms of fares, partly due to their older hard product. Also, the inflight service is distinctly aimed at the Chinese passenger. "Anglos" are in the distinct minority on their flights. I would be picking MU over CZ in most all cases.

 

You might also be looking at a combination of Delta/Virgin Australia. I've had some excellent experiences with VA flights - you would connect at LAX. Or check out your own combination through LAX.

 

Personally - I'd think that the $2000 pp premium for QF biz over CZ is a bit steep. But that's something you have to determine for yourself - how much "business class" do you want for your business class purchase?

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JFK-xCAN-BNE: 12,390 miles.

JFK-xLAX-BNE: 9,636 miles.

 

That's at least 5 or 6 additional hours in the air each way, plus connecting time on the ground.

 

Don't know your travel dates, but a quick check on ITA for December shows an Air Canada fare that's fairly close to the CZ fare, using AC's 787s on all segments. There's a plane change in Vancouver, hence JFK-xYVR-BNE. It's 9,799 miles so not very different than via LAX, and probably an easier transit at YVR than at LAX.

 

Air Canada's 787s use B/E Aerospace seats in a 1-2-1 "reverse herringbone" pattern, and their service has received generally good reviews. I think going with 787s whenever possible would be a smart move as the higher air pressure in the cabin helps reduce fatigue and jetlag for many people.

 

Might be worth checking out.

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Does your time frame fit within the United Airlines Business Class fare to Sydney ($4441 pp rt from PHL)? If so, then you could add a domestic flight from Sydney to Brisbane.

 

https://flights.united.com/en-us/business-sale-to-sydney

 

All things being equal I would pick the Air Canada business class over United. That said, United is still a better option that going out of your way through China.

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All things being equal I would pick the Air Canada business class over United. That said, United is still a better option that going out of your way through China.

 

So here is an update and some answers to the very kind suggestions. We only need one-way to Brisbane (our cruise takes us back to San Francisco). Today, HAL opened access to their discounted and non-discounted fares on their air booking engine. Qantas was among the best discounts getting one way business class from JFK to Brisbane down to to about $4050. While no bargain this is actually one of the best options since it includes Qantas aircraft all the way (so we would even get lay flat Bus Class from JFK to LAX on their 787-9). China Southern is not part of the HAL deals but we could still save about $900 per person if we simply booked China Southern. As to Air Canada, that is actually more money than Qantas and the flights would take more time.

 

Most of the other deals would use AA to get from JFK to the West Coast and the AA Business Class domestic seats are the typical lousy 37-39 inch pitch garbage marketed as Business Class in the USA. There are other alternatives if one wants to fly East which would include terrific airlines such as Emirates. But those do cost more money and actually take more time.

 

Another option is to use Delta from JFK to LAX which connects to Virgin Australia. This is about $100 pp more than Qantas and we have yet to hear an argument that Virgin is a better option. So at this point we have put a hold on Qantas seats (this can be done via FlexAir options) until somebody convinces us we should change our minds :).

 

Hank

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Another option is to use Delta from JFK to LAX which connects to Virgin Australia. This is about $100 pp more than Qantas and we have yet to hear an argument that Virgin is a better option. So at this point we have put a hold on Qantas seats (this can be done via FlexAir options) until somebody convinces us we should change our minds :).

 

VA has a business class bar on their aircraft, which gives you a place to stretch your legs, have a beverage (or two) (or three) and maybe chat with some folks. Last time, they were stocking a very nice Balvenie Doublewood - which didn't make it from BNE to LAX, thanks to a couple of Aussies helping out this Yank.

 

This article is a couple years old, but you can enjoy the pictures. LINK HERE

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VA has a business class bar on their aircraft, which gives you a place to stretch your legs, have a beverage (or two) (or three) and maybe chat with some folks. Last time, they were stocking a very nice Balvenie Doublewood - which didn't make it from BNE to LAX, thanks to a couple of Aussies helping out this Yank.

 

This article is a couple years old, but you can enjoy the pictures. LINK HERE

 

You have to tell this to a Single Malt Lover? :). On our recent China Air (JFK to Taipei leg) they had JW Blue in their bar, although it was not truly self-serve. But I certainly took advantage.

 

The thing about the LAX to Brisbane leg is that its a late night departure which means more sleeping then drinking. But Balvenie now has me thinking :).

 

Hank

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We only need one-way to Brisbane (our cruise takes us back to San Francisco).

No disrespect intended, but if you'd said that at the outset I suspect a number of people (myself included) wouldn't have gone to the trouble of looking around for good round-trip fares for you. No big, just for future reference.

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No disrespect intended, but if you'd said that at the outset I suspect a number of people (myself included) wouldn't have gone to the trouble of looking around for good round-trip fares for you. No big, just for future reference.

 

So noted and I am sorry if it caused you any inconvenience. My OP never mentioned one-way or round trip which is certainly a faux pax.

 

Hank

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Find yourself a good travel agent. I don't know what your travel date is but when I checked for March from JFK to Brisbane, I find a business class fare (on Qantas) for $3605.00.

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Find yourself a good travel agent. I don't know what your travel date is but when I checked for March from JFK to Brisbane, I find a business class fare (on Qantas) for $3605.00.

 

Travel agents don't do airlines any longer as the airlines don't pay commissions. A travel agent might do it as a favor, but only for high dollar clients.

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Find yourself a good travel agent. I don't know what your travel date is but when I checked for March from JFK to Brisbane, I find a business class fare (on Qantas) for $3605.00.

 

My goodness, pray tell where you see that fare :). Looking on a few decent search engines we can only find $5661 (which includes the Qantas aircraft from JFK). We specifically need to depart on 3/23 or 3/24.

 

Hank

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Travel agents do airline tickets.

 

None that I know. I'm sure you can find one here and there, but in general they just don't do airlines because they don't get commissions. Please don't make those who are uninformed think that all travel agents do airlines, it just isn't the case now.

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Why do I suspect that this is a consolidator fare, available only to travel agents? If it was a published fare, the fare code basis should be easily available to share with folks here on CC.

 

According to Alidor, one should do EVERYTHING through a travel agent. Or at least that's been the gist of most all of their posts.

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Travel agents do airline tickets.

Some in North America will do it for full-fare tickets (e.g. Y, J/C, F) as some airlines still pay commissions for those fares only, but most don't, and most certainly don't know how to look for the cheapest fares. Travel consultants, on the other hand, will gladly do the legwork for a fee.

 

The situation is different in other parts of the world, where TAs are routinely paid commissions.

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Why do I suspect that this is a consolidator fare, available only to travel agents? If it was a published fare, the fare code basis should be easily available to share with folks here on CC.

 

According to Alidor, one should do EVERYTHING through a travel agent. Or at least that's been the gist of most all of their posts.

 

Yeah, that was my thought but we were too polite to post it :). Consolidator's often advertise fares that do not even exist but are simply used as a marketing ploy. There is no way any Consolidator is selling a big discount one-way fare on Qantas nearly 10 months in advance :). We do have Flexible booking on those Qantas flights which we could cancel if we find a better option. But looking at the seating chart the Bus Class seats are almost fully booked so there will not be Consolidator deals.

 

As to Travel Agents we assume that the poster is either a travel agent or very old school and out of touch with current booking strategies. I cannot even remember the last time I have seen a true travel agent or agency (other then the consolidators) that specialized in air bookings. If they exist they would surely be bankrupt :). We do know of some travel agencies like the major auto clubs that will handle an airline booking request, but their prices are either the same or higher then what we can find on our own. In our case we are able to get a discounted fare by booking through the cruise line's own fly site but are not real happy with the discounted fare.

 

Hank

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Sorry, but I am working for about 40 years as a travel agent and previously with Air Canada - lots of experience;- and if I specialize in anything, it probably is air. Yes, the fare I quoted is correct and is available. The consolidator is an excellent one and one I have used for years. I will only use a handful of consolidators. Don’t trust most of them but there are a few I really trust.

 

I see people post on here all the time but their airfare problems and KNOW there are cheaper fares out there. But, it is their money and if they don’t want to use a travel agent, we’ll, it is their money....

 

Have never had a problem with any of the tickets I have booked through a consolidator - never. Their fares are NOT always the best, but they often are very good.

 

By the way, the fare I posted is correct and I only checked one consolidator. There could be better air fares out there, I just didn’t check that far.

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I booked a domestic First Class ticket for this Summer through a local major auto club and was charged a $25 fee to do so. I expected that fee. Price of the ticket was competitive with what I could have booked on my own.

 

My usual travel agency will not book air separately from a cruise booking. However, their affiliation with a travel consortium allowed me to pay for an air booking made through the consortium that was less than the cruise line's air pricing or what I was finding on my own.

 

Incidentally, even with this small booking, the agent's service has exceeded my expectations. (Is she trying to woo me back for future cruise bookings?)

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I will touch on some issues but leave the hard hitting stuff to the air experts :). In our particular case the cruise line had a decent "flex" air deal that discounted the one-way Business Class fare (on Qantas) by over 20%. Flex Air is a terrific option for many travelers because it allows one to book an air ticket with no payment due until 45 days prior to travel. This allows one to secure flights with the added benefit of having lots of time to explore other options. If one were to compare the price with a comparable refundable airline booking the savings amount to paying about half price.

 

Somebody on this blog seems to love airline consolidators and this is truly a niche market best left to those with a lot of expertise in dealing with consolidators. At best, a consolidator ticket does come with certain risks which perhaps some of the experts would want to discuss in a separate thread. Having traveled extensively for over fifty years we have previously booked some consolidator tickets but its not my norm. We will certainly check with a couple of consolidators much closer to are payment-due date but would not hold our breath. In the case of our destination there are few possible flights unless one wants to deal with 2 or more stops. The one low cost carrier is China Southern which is why we asked the original question.

 

Regarding cruise line air deals, several cruise lines do get some decent prices on good airlines....especially for International Business and First Class. Sometimes these deals are spectacular and other times the savings are minimal. It is just one more option to be checked as part of due diligence.

 

Hank

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VA has a business class bar on their aircraft, which gives you a place to stretch your legs, have a beverage (or two) (or three) and maybe chat with some folks. Last time, they were stocking a very nice Balvenie Doublewood - which didn't make it from BNE to LAX, thanks to a couple of Aussies helping out this Yank.

 

This article is a couple years old, but you can enjoy the pictures. LINK HERE

 

Over a period of time we have really learned to respect your opinion on the airlines. Today we changed our reservations over to Virgin Australia...based somewhat on your comments :). We also managed to snag a very good deal. With a little luck I hope to be able to "sample" some of the Balvenie.

 

Hank

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Most of the other deals would use AA to get from JFK to the West Coast and the AA Business Class domestic seats are the typical lousy 37-39 inch pitch garbage marketed as Business Class in the USA.

 

I'm afraid this is incorrect. AA have a subfleet of A321s with lie flat seats in both First and Business that operate all the nonstop services between JFK-LAX/SFO.

 

2-2 lie flats in Business (B/E Diamond seating)

1-1 lie flats in First Class that are almost identical to the Business Class seats on AA 777-300s.

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