Ocean Medallion/Pacemaker

i just happened to be browsing in a posting about the ***** on the Regal and noticed a little line about the danger of wearing a Medallion if you have a Pacemaker. We are booked on the Regal Jan. 21/18 and since I have a Pacemaker this alarmed me. I called Princess and they confirmed the danger. Shouldn’t be closer than 6”. Hope we can stick with the old Cruise Card.

Would it still be dangerous if the medallion is in your pants pocket?

Well THAT's a scary thought! Dh is on a pacemaker. I keep my keycard, or in this case medallion, on my neck. Imagine giving him a hug and watching him drop! :eek:

No medallions for us! I sure hope they are making it VERY clear to folks before they get those things.

The verbage about pacemakers or any other medical devices that might be impacted by RFID or magnets should not be buried in promo materials nor in fine print.

To get out from under any potential liability, Princess should not provide any Medallion to any person until each person either acknowledges or denies that RFID is or isn't a problem.

The verbage about pacemakers or any other medical devices that might be impacted by RFID or magnets should not be buried in promo materials nor in fine print.

 

To get out from under any potential liability, Princess should not provide any Medallion to any person until each person either acknowledges or denies that RFID is or isn't a problem.

I would agree that a positive acknowledgement and/or a release from liability would be of benefit. I must say that, at first reading, I was skeptical about the danger of electronic devices in the proximity of medical devices. After taking a half hour reading up on the subject, the concerns are very valid, but manageable..

Would it still be dangerous if the medallion is in your pants pocket?[/quote

 

I wouldn’t want to put it in shirt pocket!

Given how close passengers are squished into elevators, those with medallions should be require to walk the stairs - it's healthier for everyone! ;)

Darcy

The ***** is a RFID (radio frequency identification) tag. It contains a unique number that corresponds with a number in the computer database something like your SSN. It is not an active device meaning it does not radiate a signal on its own. The ship has RFID antennas and readers scattered around the ship that emit a small magnetic field. When a RFID tag (***** in our case) travels within that magnetic field the reader can then read the data on the tag. RFID is being used in hospitals to eliminate medication and patient errors today. I would think that the magnetic field emitted by the readers placed all around the ship is more of a concern than the tag (*****) itself since the tag is non-emitting. The magnetic strip on the back of your credit card works in a similar way.

The ***** is a RFID (radio frequency identification) tag. It contains a unique number that corresponds with a number in the computer database something like your SSN. It is not an active device meaning it does not radiate a signal on its own. The ship has RFID antennas and readers scattered around the ship that emit a small magnetic field. When a RFID tag (***** in our case) travels within that magnetic field the reader can then read the data on the tag. RFID is being used in hospitals to eliminate medication and patient errors today. I would think that the magnetic field emitted by the readers placed all around the ship is more of a concern than the tag (*****) itself since the tag is non-emitting. The magnetic strip on the back of your credit card works in a similar way.

Actually the Medallion uses a combination of two technologies. Neither of which should be an issue with a pacemaker.

Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE)

Near Field Communication (NFC)

For those who have a pacemaker do you use a cell phone?

Do you use the apple watch/fitbit?

Do you use Bluetooth in your car?

Do you play with those virtual reality glasses?

Do you go through the scanners at the airport/ ball games/museums?

Was your pacemaker installed after 2000?

If so and you haven't dropped dead yet you don't need to worry about the Medallion knocking you off either.

Princess is just CYA.

Talk to the manufacture who made your pacemaker. You know the card you carry that has the model number/serial number on it. Talk to your cardiologist who maintains your pacemaker and you will find that the vast majority of the "cautions" about not using xyz with a pacemaker are lawyer related.

And before anyone accuses me of not knowing what I am talking about I have a pacemaker and have talked to my cardiologist, my electro physiologist and 2 of the major manufactures of the pacemakers.

This will be just like when they first came out with the keycards for hotel room doors and warned that if you had a pacemaker you couldn't use a keycard. Or your work ID being used to unlock secured doors.

Do your own due diligence but don't buy into the hysteria.

Princess will do better job with their research when they have a large number of passengers refusing the Medallion based on this.

The ***** is a RFID (radio frequency identification) tag. It contains a unique number that corresponds with a number in the computer database something like your SSN. It is not an active device meaning it does not radiate a signal on its own. .

Actually, it does.

It uses both bluetooth low energy and near field communication.

This post has a link to an artical containing quotes from John Padgett:

(Also, you have really confused magnetic field with radio energy in your post)

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=54572317&postcount=301

I'm not as tech savvy ad

Sorry bout that ... I'm not as tech savvy as some here, but IF there is any risk to anyone, Princess should address it openly to explain any perceived issues and to dispel any unfounded rumors.

It is my understanding that the ***** attaches to the band/pendant/lanyard/etc. with a magnet. Are magnets a concern for those with pacemakers?

Actually, it does.

 

It uses both bluetooth low energy and near field communication.

 

This post has a link to an artical containing quotes from John Padgett:

 

(Also, you have really confused magnetic field with radio energy in your post)

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=54572317&postcount=301

That clarifies some doubts. Thanks.

There was a 2 pm question and answer session by John Padgett for Medallion "testers" when we left on the 12/3 Regal sailing and someone in the room had a pacemaker. He asked about this and John told him that when the shops opened to go get a wristband and put he would pay for it. It needs to be in the pocket or on the wrist and then was safe. They also have small clips that you can use which you could clip onto your pocket.

It is my understanding that the ***** attaches to the band/pendant/lanyard/etc. with a magnet. Are magnets a concern for those with pacemakers?

Yes magnets can be a problem if they are strong enough. This is why people are asked about pacemakers before they have an MRI. Magnets are used to change settings on a pacemaker.

There was a 2 pm question and answer session by John Padgett for Medallion "testers" when we left on the 12/3 Regal sailing and someone in the room had a pacemaker. He asked about this and John told him that when the shops opened to go get a wristband and put he would pay for it. It needs to be in the pocket or on the wrist and then was safe. They also have small clips that you can use which you could clip onto your pocket.

Thank you so much for your contributions on the Medallion. I enjoyed your postings from your Medallion cruise. First that you would take time out of your cruise to find answers to the many questions and second that you gave an honest and (from my perspective an) unbiased opinion.

Yes there have been some major hiccoughs with the Medallion but with any new tech that will happen. Princess will get them ironed out and in a few years people will wonder how they cruised without them.

Many that cruise Princess can remember growing up with rotary dial party line phones. If you asked them back then to embrace this new technology where they could carry a phone in their pocket that could be dialed by voice, double as a fantastic camera, used as a computer, text, be a security camera for home while away on their cruise and even order a pizza you would have heard the same complaining that we are hearing about the Medallion now.

All electron flow (aka current) has both a magnetic and electrical component. The magnetic component of an alternating current is what enables induction in a suitable device (aka a transformer winding). In RFID and its successor NFS, the tag is usually passive and only responds when in a magnetic field created by the reader's radio wave which induces current flow and hence a signal that will be the same frequency as the primary signal.

I had forgotten about the BLE component which is an active device radiating a very low level signal in the 2.4 GHZ range. However the BLE while an active component only responds when it receives a signal from a reader and the response will be a few milliseconds just long enough to transfer the data and at a very low power level. The tag/***** does therefore require a small battery but uses a very insignificant amount of power.

The ***** only radiates when in the range of a reader (scattered all over the ship) and then for a few milliseconds at a time. So the question becomes if a pace maker will be impacted by a low level 2.4 GHZ signal emitted in a few millisecond burst. Remember the readers scattered all over the ship are emitting their low level 2.4 GHZ signal all the time looking for a tag/*****.

I would be more worried at home with cordless phones, cell phones, bluetooth devices that are active, microwave leakage, etc. I do agree though the caveat in Princess advertisement about the danger of ***** is lawyer talk to CYA.

It has been a long time since I studied electrical field theory. Thanks for the refresher.

All electron flow (aka current) has both a magnetic and electrical component. The magnetic component of an alternating current is what enables induction in a suitable device (aka a transformer winding). In RFID and its successor NFS, the tag is usually passive and only responds when in a magnetic field created by the reader's radio wave which induces current flow and hence a signal that will be the same frequency as the primary signal.

 

I had forgotten about the BLE component which is an active device radiating a very low level signal in the 2.4 GHZ range. However the BLE while an active component only responds when it receives a signal from a reader and the response will be a few milliseconds just long enough to transfer the data and at a very low power level. The tag/***** does therefore require a small battery but uses a very insignificant amount of power.

 

The ***** only radiates when in the range of a reader (scattered all over the ship) and then for a few milliseconds at a time. So the question becomes if a pace maker will be impacted by a low level 2.4 GHZ signal emitted in a few millisecond burst. Remember the readers scattered all over the ship are emitting their low level 2.4 GHZ signal all the time looking for a tag/*****.

 

I would be more worried at home with cordless phones, cell phones, bluetooth devices that are active, microwave leakage, etc. I do agree though the caveat in Princess advertisement about the danger of ***** is lawyer talk to CYA.

 

It has been a long time since I studied electrical field theory. Thanks for the refresher.

Hummmm

Now you are causing my brain to work and it hurts. :eek:

Could the magnet that holds the devise in the lanyard/necklace/wristband/etc. be causing enough interference with the signal, in conjunction with all the metal walls, to be causing all the hiccoughs?

I think that's just something Princess lawyers added.

***** uses tech that is all around you in every day life. RFID and Bluetooth LE. RFID is a passive device that will "reply" with information when pinged. Information is very small. Usually just a small string of numbers. At this time, every smartphone has RFID reader/transmitter (save few older iPhone/Android models). RFID requires no battery and can work forever, but has very short range.

Other tech that ***** uses is Bluetooth Low Energy beacon. It's more of an active device that uses very low amount of energy to send quick updates. Bluetooth LE readers are everywhere. Apple came up with BT beacons, that track you around the store by interrogating your phone and recording last position. So they know that you stopped to look at headphones longer than you stopped to look at laptops. More stores and malls deploying beacons now.

If RFID and bluetooth LE tech was dangerous to pacemakers, then pacemaker users would not be able to step into a mall while carrying a credit card or a phone. Or ever ride in a car that has bluetooth.

OMG The EMF wackos are at it again. Does it exists, yes. Does it effect you NO. The Medallion operates much the same as a "Tile" or "Traker" device works minuscule output that radiates about 10 feet. The remote read electric meters 500 feet. Your cell phone is massive in comparison, range over a mile. If you were in fact effected by EMF, going to super market would bring you to your knees.

Worked for electric company, we were switching to remote read meters. Customer in 30 unit apartment made complaints of headaches and such soon after meter was installed. After two months of complaints her meter was replaced with old analog style. Happened to be at building three months later on different issue. She said things were much better and headaches had disappeared. That is until I pointed out her bedroom was on the other side of the wall the other 29 meters were located. Complaint calls started again the next day.

Hummmm

 

Now you are causing my brain to work and it hurts. :eek:

 

Could the magnet that holds the devise in the lanyard/necklace/wristband/etc. be causing enough interference with the signal, in conjunction with all the metal walls, to be causing all the hiccoughs?

No the magnet is no where strong enough to cause a problem. Sorry did not mean to give you a headache. I was just trying to show people that the ***** is not an health issue by explaining how it works.

No the magnet is no where strong enough to cause a problem. Sorry did not mean to give you a headache. I was just trying to show people that the ***** is not an health issue by explaining how it works.

Nah anytime my brain has to work it hurts. :loudcry:

I was just hoping that I could miraculously find a reason for the Medallion hiccoughs (get rid of a small magnet) and be the hero. :halo:

Then Princess would love me and give me the cabin I want for my next cruise. Free of course.:rolleyes:

Not that they don't already have hundreds of qualified people working on getting the Medallion working right?

I have doubled the thickness of my tin foil hat, and I think that this might be enough to protect me from the Electro-Magnetic Transmissions.

The "fact' that these transmissions are low level is not the answer, because the transmissions are cumulative. multiple transmissions reinforce each other, at least arithmetically and possibly geometrically -- depending on the amplitudes and wavelengths of the various transmissions.

And it is not just pacemakers at risk. There are other electronic implants in play, some of which have been installed without our knowledge.

Now that I think of it, I am going to TRIPLE my tin foil hat, not just double it. And I will install a layer of electronic mesh between the layers of tin, to further interfere with the EMFs.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. My lawyers will contact Princess to upbraid them for their inadequate warnings! Or they might contact my institution to instruct those nice young men in their clean white suits to provide me with extra tin foil!

Seriously, the risk of RFIDs interfering with pacemakers is miniscule. Even if the ***** is worn around the neck, just inches from the pacemaker.

For those who have a pacemaker do you use a cell phone?

 

Do you use the apple watch/fitbit?

 

Do you use Bluetooth in your car?

 

Do you play with those virtual reality glasses?

 

Do you go through the scanners at the airport/ ball games/museums?

 

Was your pacemaker installed after 2000?

 

If so and you haven't dropped dead yet you don't need to worry about the Medallion knocking you off either.

 

Princess is just CYA.

 

Talk to the manufacture who made your pacemaker. You know the card you carry that has the model number/serial number on it. Talk to your cardiologist who maintains your pacemaker and you will find that the vast majority of the "cautions" about not using xyz with a pacemaker are lawyer related.

 

And before anyone accuses me of not knowing what I am talking about I have a pacemaker and have talked to my cardiologist, my electro physiologist and 2 of the major manufactures of the pacemakers.

 

This will be just like when they first came out with the keycards for hotel room doors and warned that if you had a pacemaker you couldn't use a keycard. Or your work ID being used to unlock secured doors.

 

Do your own due diligence but don't buy into the hysteria.

 

Princess will do better job with their research when they have a large number of passengers refusing the Medallion based on this.

I have an implanted medical device, and I can do those things EXCEPT the scanners ...can't go through those...or MRI's