abuse of Lifts

Quite correct Stephen and Britannia does seem to be the worst offender, it only has the same number of lifts as Azura/Ventura, 14 in total, but I am certain they are smaller, and all three of the big ship's lifts are smaller than RCI and Celebrity.

 

However if Iona follows the AIDAnova deck plans then it will have 20 lifts, in 3 locations.

I do not know Britannia but I have heard she also lacks stairs. I cannot imagine this. If a passenger was willing to take the stairs (as some posters suggest I should) how would I do this. On ships I have been on lifts and stairs are always together. Also what about an emergency when lifts cannot be used.

If I remember Oriana has 11 for less than two thousand passengers. Of course speed and size are a factor also. Symphony of the Seas has 24 lifts in two locations and they are all big and fast. With well over five thousand passengers we rarely had to wait or share a lift.

Thank you, Stephen.

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We have never had any problems when travelling in the lifts and often have had a laugh and a joke with our fellow passengers of all shapes and sizes and disabilities.

I don't feel guilty about using a lift, but would always give way to those with mobility issues and their travel companions with whom I must say we have never had any issues. We have always found them to be very considerate and courteous in the lift as well.

We find that mutual consideration and respect, a sensible attempt to avoid the lifts at peak times - and a sense of humour as we are all shuffling around helps a lot.

It was mentioned ages back by me and others. I think P and O compare badly in this regard to Cunard and Royal Caribbean. They probably compare favourably to the ex Royal Viking Line ships that Fred Olsen uses. Within the P and O fleet Britannia seems to be a the main problem. On most ships forward and aft lifts are often better than midships. I always likes forward cabin for many reason.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

 

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Remember that Royal Caribbean and Celebrity only have two sets of lifts and not three as P&O have apart from Oceana which also only has 3. People even to forget that when having a go at P&O.

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I do not know Britannia but I have heard she also lacks stairs. I cannot imagine this. If a passenger was willing to take the stairs (as some posters suggest I should) how would I do this. On ships I have been on lifts and stairs are always together. Also what about an emergency when lifts cannot be used.

 

If I remember Oriana has 11 for less than two thousand passengers. Of course speed and size are a factor also. Symphony of the Seas has 24 lifts in two locations and they are all big and fast. With well over five thousand passengers we rarely had to wait or share a lift.

 

Thank you, Stephen.

 

 

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Britannia has central stairs only they are, for the moment staff and emergency only. As with Royal Princess I understand these are being opened up at the next major refit.

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Britannia has central stairs only they are, for the moment staff and emergency only. As with Royal Princess I understand these are being opened up at the next major refit.

 

 

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It will make a real difference on Brittania when they do open up the central stairs.

Remember that Royal Caribbean and Celebrity only have two sets of lifts and not three as P&O have apart from Oceana which also only has 3. People even to forget that when having a go at P&O.

 

 

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You are correct of course Dai, but take it from someone who has sailed on all 3 lines, the RCI and Celebrity lifts are much bigger, better located, and we rarely queue for lifts on their ships.

Remember that Royal Caribbean and Celebrity only have two sets of lifts and not three as P&O have apart from Oceana which also only has 3. People even to forget that when having a go at P&O.

 

 

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Why do you always assume people are “ having a go” at P &O. Sometimes they are simply stating the facts.

Why do you always assume people are “ having a go” at P &O. Sometimes they are simply stating the facts.

Sorry if it offends you but you yourself were criticising them. If you are stating facts let’s have all of them.

Princess/P&O Grand class have here sets of lifts . Stern bow and centre. RC and Celebrity have two sets.

As it happens the Holland America/ Arcadia/ Cunard ships have the most per passenger.

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Sorry if it offends you but you yourself were criticising them. If you are stating facts let’s have all of them.

 

Princess/P&O Grand class have here sets of lifts . Stern bow and centre. RC and Celebrity have two sets.

 

As it happens the Holland America/ Arcadia/ Cunard ships have the most per passenger.

 

 

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Yes the QM2 for example is well supplied and they are really big (sorry I don’t have specific dimensions).

Stating a point of view is not criticism. You will note that I also mentioned that it “perhaps is just feels like that because fewer people use them when the demographic on board is younger / fitter.”

The lack of central stairs on Brittania is however a real annoyance.

Yes the QM2 for example is well supplied and they are really big (sorry I don’t have specific dimensions).

 

 

 

Stating a point of view is not criticism. You will note that I also mentioned that it “perhaps is just feels like that because fewer people use them when the demographic on board is younger / fitter.”

 

 

 

 

 

The lack of central stairs on Brittania is however a real annoyance.

Also non of the ships apart from Oriana and Aurora were built for P&O. They were built for the US market either by Princess or Carnival. Although When the first Grand ship came out Princess was still a P&O line. But built for possibly a younger clientele in the Caribbean and mainly Americans.

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Remember that Royal Caribbean and Celebrity only have two sets of lifts and not three as P&O have apart from Oceana which also only has 3. People even to forget that when having a go at P&O.

 

 

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Symphony of the Seas has 24 lifts divided between two locations. I would guess at the 1/3 and 2/3 positions. All large glass carriages and fast moving. They are also in the same position as the doors used for ports making it all very easy. They have trialed destination despatch algorithms which should also help.

I like P and O but I just feel some people have used this thread to describe passengers who choose to use the lifts, as abusers and selfish. Indeed they seem very angry. If they want to have a go then I suggest they direct there altercations at P and O. It seems there is a deficiency in the design of Britannia. A ship that P and O (Carnival Corporation and PLC) designed and operate. Apparently to be rectified at a future refit. I do not see how this makes passengers lift abusers, selfish or anything similar.

Best wishes, Stephen.

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Quite correct Stephen and Britannia does seem to be the worst offender, it only has the same number of lifts as Azura/Ventura, 14 in total, but I am certain they are smaller, and all three of the big ship's lifts are smaller than RCI and Celebrity.

 

However if Iona follows the AIDAnova deck plans then it will have 20 lifts, in 3 locations.

Thank you. Hopefully that will make Iona better for passenger flow.

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Britannia has central stairs only they are, for the moment staff and emergency only. As with Royal Princess I understand these are being opened up at the next major refit.

 

 

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Thank you. Perhaps then I might be persuaded to try her.

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You are correct of course Dai, but take it from someone who has sailed on all 3 lines, the RCI and Celebrity lifts are much bigger, better located, and we rarely queue for lifts on their ships.

That would be my limited experience. I have also cruised on Sovereign and ex RCI ship now operating for Pullmantur. She is an old ship but her lifts are still plentiful, spacious and fast. Also her public rooms are vertical stacked at the stern so the lifts get some use.

Best wishes, Stephen.

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Have to say that we have sailed now on P&O, Celebrity and RCI and have never seen anyone misusing the lifts. This has always been peak times in school holidays. Perhaps we have been lucky but we have always found others to be courteous and mindful of others and often people have given way for those in wheelchairs or the elderly, preferring to wait or walk.

Just thought I'd add this as it is sometimes good to share the good stuff !

Symphony of the Seas has 24 lifts divided between two locations. I would guess at the 1/3 and 2/3 positions. All large glass carriages and fast moving. They are also in the same position as the doors used for ports making it all very easy. They have trialed destination despatch algorithms which should also help.

 

I like P and O but I just feel some people have used this thread to describe passengers who choose to use the lifts, as abusers and selfish. Indeed they seem very angry. If they want to have a go then I suggest they direct there altercations at P and O. It seems there is a deficiency in the design of Britannia. A ship that P and O (Carnival Corporation and PLC) designed and operate. Apparently to be rectified at a future refit. I do not see how this makes passengers lift abusers, selfish or anything similar.

 

Best wishes, Stephen.

 

 

 

 

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Britannia was not designed by P&O but by Carnival plc and Princess for Royal and Regal Princess which both were built and sailed before Britannia and all 3 are the same design with no stairs midships.

I agree that the lifts are for everybody to use. On my last cruise (Britannia) my cabin was on deck 16 so used the lifts more than I perhaps would have. I always tried to make room for wheelchairs and mobility scooters but each user had their own way of manoeuvring and it was impossible to guess where best to go. Some even entered forwards then attempted to turn round whilst in the lift!

Once, after several bus tours had returned, I had been waiting my turn for some time for a lift. As mentioned above my cabin was on deck 16, so from deck 4 the stairs was not really an option. My turn for the lift eventually came when a wheelchair user came straight from the gangway and barged her way onto the lift shouting 'priority, priority'! Then immediately closed the doors so no body else could get in, even though there was room for two or three more. I appreciate that she might have had an urgent reason to hurry, but a lot of us did! There was no need for her aggressiveness and rudeness.

Sadly, whilst this thread is about lift use, it is a reflection of so many aspects of today. 'Me', 'Me', 'Me''! So often we see examples of lack of respect and consideration - holding doors for people (no response), stepping aside for people on the pavement (again no response), blatant queue jumping etc. I'm sure you can think of many more examples.

The lift situation exemplifies this - but I'm sure it's true to say the lack of consideration and respect can come from both the able-bodied and disabled, as has been described by some posts.

We see mobility scooters zipping along the promenade, which is very busy with lots of young children, elderly people, and folks strolling along, and they have no regard to others' safety. The same can be said of some cyclists too. It's not the a group of people who are to blame, and we shouldn't stigmatise them, but individuals who are self-centred and at best, totally unaware of others' needs. And then there are those who don't make allowances for scooters as they walk along. I am depressing myself here!

Actually, we find on board ship generally people are very good natured and considerate and the ambience is very pleasant - but it only takes a few!

But on the plus side on our train travels to Gatwick recently (that's another story!!:eek::eek:) twice my case was lifted off the train by young people obviously assuming correctly it wasn't easy for me to lift it on and off. You do see the good side of people too on occasions and I'm going to try to look out for more examples.

Sadly, whilst this thread is about lift use, it is a reflection of so many aspects of today. 'Me', 'Me', 'Me''! So often we see examples of lack of respect and consideration - holding doors for people (no response), stepping aside for people on the pavement (again no response), blatant queue jumping etc. I'm sure you can think of many more examples.

The lift situation exemplifies this - but I'm sure it's true to say the lack of consideration and respect can come from both the able-bodied and disabled, as has been described by some posts.

We see mobility scooters zipping along the promenade, which is very busy with lots of young children, elderly people, and folks strolling along, and they have no regard to others' safety. The same can be said of some cyclists too. It's not the a group of people who are to blame, and we shouldn't stigmatise them, but individuals who are self-centred and at best, totally unaware of others' needs. And then there are those who don't make allowances for scooters as they walk along. I am depressing myself here!

Actually, we find on board ship generally people are very good natured and considerate and the ambience is very pleasant - but it only takes a few!

But on the plus side on our train travels to Gatwick recently (that's another story!!:eek::eek:) twice my case was lifted off the train by young people obviously assuming correctly it wasn't easy for me to lift it on and off. You do see the good side of people too on occasions and I'm going to try to look out for more examples.

It is the general niceness, pleasantness and thoughtfulness of the majority that makes the unpleasant behaviour of the few stick in our minds. We don't remember, or even notice, the nine people who do say thanks when we hold the door open, but we do notice and remember and reflect upon the one person who doesn't.

I’m bored of this as it’s just going around and around in circles, so this will be my last post. I repeat that I am fully aware that not all disabilities are visible. I also repeat that absolutely anyone has every right to use a lift whenever they see fit. But it is naive in the extreme to believe that every passenger who uses a lift in preference to a visibly disabled passenger has a hidden disability and this old chestnut gets thrown up time after time.

 

A few weeks ago, we waited ages for a lift on Arcadia after muster. A group of 6 people, aged 30’s and 40’s, all got in a lift, even when a lot of disabled passengers were waiting - and had been for some time. Now it may be that all 6 had ‘hidden disablities’ but I’d bet a decent wedge of cash that they didn’t.

 

The problem with a wheelchair is that it takes up a load of space with the footrests etc and, as John was trying to explain, you need the full length of the lift. Whilst I do sometimes let my wife travel on her own and I use the stairs to meet her, it’s sometimes not practical to do so when trying to reverse in or out of a packed lift safely. Again, those who don’t have to use wheelchairs will be oblivious to these issues. When I do travel in a lift with her, I squeeze into the space between the handle bars pressed up behind her, which a stranger wouldn’t do!

 

Again, without doubting those with genuine hidden disabilities, the attitudes of some passengers are laid bare when it comes to assisted embarkation and disembarkation. It’s amazing how many passengers we see who march around the ship day after day and walk miles ashore in the ports, yet when there is some perceived advantage to be gained by assisted embarkation or disembarkation, they suddenly need a wheelchair and pusher.

 

In conclusion, I genuinely hope that those with hidden disabilities don’t find that they progress to full blown visible disabilities, especially if that results in being in a wheelchair, as life becomes a constant challenge and sadly, as evidenced in a very small way on this thread, an occasional battle.

Selbourne you may well not be posting more on this thread but may be reading. I usually respect all your posts but this time you are way off the mark with your last paragraph. Many with hidden disabilities will have their illness deteriorate rapidly but never progress to these being visible disabilities on a cruise ship. For example many with end stage cancer or heart defects which eventually may need wheelchairs, only 2 of "hidden disabilities", will never get insurance to travel as their condition worsens to that stage. True if they do you will have no problem recognising them they will be the ones trailing all the kit to help them breath such as O2 and that equipment will need to be in the lift.

Indeed your remark implies that visible disabilities are more severe and thus most worthy of lift usage.Yes of course those who can should use the stairs, there are those who would not follow any request or rule known to man (P&O is full of them) but no-one can do more then hazard a guess even based on age who is able bodied and who is not. Being a wheelchair user is challenging (I know) but you cannot simply see our lot as the worst possible scenario. It may be in mobility and lift usage but a visible disability is just that it is not one that wins hands down in the lift stakes, there are many other non visible illnesses that will "trump" it for want of a better word in terms of severity or even threat to life span. There are so many struggles for those who are mobility impaired but in my view time spent on a cruise ship is one of the better environments. It may be frustrating but in time a lift will be available, on shore there may well not be a lift and despite all these years of disability acts etc many many spaces are closed to wheelchair users as they have poor accessibility.

Looks like this thread will make a ton.

What always amuses me are grumpy passengers who adopt the role of lift operator. When the half empty lift stops at a random floor they immediately hit the closed door button giving the waiting person no chance to get to the lift.

If you're not in front of the doors you've no chance with this schmuk on the controls.

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It is the general niceness, pleasantness and thoughtfulness of the majority that makes the unpleasant behaviour of the few stick in our minds. We don't remember, or even notice, the nine people who do say thanks when we hold the door open, but we do notice and remember and reflect upon the one person who doesn't.

Too true! It's like the bad reviews a) someone with a grouse is more likely to want to air their complaint than the many more who have been happy with their cruise and b) it's the poor ones which stick in our minds - especially if we are soon to travel on that ship. It rather distorts the reality.

I totally agree with your second para, but not the first. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and just because we may disagree with them is no reason to disparage their views.

 

As a wheelchair user's carer I have absolutely no problem with anyone using the lifts, but I would like a little more consideration from some passengers. This is very apparent just after muster when only seconds after the Captain has requested everyone to give priority to wheelchair users, there is a first come first served scrum around the lifts. I do admit that I now try to ensure we are at the entrance to the Glass House, our muster station, so that I can be one of the first into the lift lobby. and I will use the first lift that stops, even it is going in the wrong direction for us, because I know that all lifts coming up to deck 7 will be too full for a wheelchair.

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I apologise if it appears I was criticising the views of others. I acknowledge that we are all entitled to a point of view.

What I do have a problem with is that some people on this forum express the view that the "able bodied" should use the stairs and not use the lifts.

In my post I described my pre surgery situation where as an "able bodied" person I had daily bouts of excruciating pain and had no option but to use a lift, even if it was just one floor, while at other times I could quite happily use the stairs.

There will be many people in similar situations, in no way considering themselves disabled but going through short term difficulties, which could make using the stairs a problem.

I fully intend on my next cruise to use the stairs all the time. This however will be my choice and not because of an unwritten rule that I should.

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