Koningsdam Library update

competition is tight for Caribbean cruises which I think, affects pricing.

If you look at some of the more exotic itineraries those cruises are not cheap by any means in my experience.

After the Oosterdam's recent (2016) dry-dock, the ship went illiterate.. Books gone no librarian. While e-books are fine for fiction, you want to read history or any book where you need to see the references, etc., maps a real book is much more satisfying. I don't think that real books ie paper will die even a slow death.

This may have nothing to do with this debate, but in educational circles (I am a teacher), recent studies overwhelmingly prove that students learn better, have better test scores when reading from paper textbooks than from technological devices. Our school district is among many districts rushing to implement full technology classrooms (think google classroom) where no paper books are utilized! Most of my students don't like constantly reading on devices, as they complain about eye strain and headaches.

Those of us who enjoy holding an "old-fashioned" paper book will probably have to adjust to the no library concept on HAL ships, since the line is losing money, according to one source who may or may not be reliable. If it is the truth, I don't see HAL heavily investing in a non-profit venue. It's a shame that some adults, who are supposedly responsible, cannot return a library book without damaging it. Yes, I've seen some books on various HAL ships that should have been replaced or removed. If libraries on HAL ships are a thing of the past, I, for one, will miss them. Visiting the library was the first stop my husband and I used to make after boarding a ship.

No library on a ship that does almost all 7 day cruises is no big deal....no library on ships that do 14++ day itinerary is a big deal to many of us cruisers who like to read a lot of PAPER books instead of staring at yet another screen in our lives.

This may have nothing to do with this debate, but in educational circles (I am a teacher), recent studies overwhelmingly prove that students learn better, have better test scores when reading from paper textbooks than from technological devices. Our school district is among many districts rushing to implement full technology classrooms (think google classroom) where no paper books are utilized! Most of my students don't like constantly reading on devices, as they complain about eye strain and headaches.

I don’t know enough to agree or disagree with how well students learn, although what you say definitely makes sense. I do know that I like reading books on my Kindle Paperwhite because it doesn’t give me eye strain like reading from an iPad or computer screen does. It could be an age thing.

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As the OP I am happy to read all the various views on what drew me to HAL after the first cruise so many years ago...the library

The first visit to that portion of the Crows nest on the Kdam on Oct. 3, 2017 first brought a laugh to my lips followed by a sad sigh knowing a ruinous change is being implemented.

Rumours abounded last year that HAL wanted to court a younger, more tech savy demographic.

Standing in the 8ft by 8ft allotted space for the library made me think those rumours were true.

As I stated earlier in this thread please bring already read books/magazines and fill the few shelves that there are

Thanks

Bob

On our cruise last Feb on the Rotterdam (21 day Caribbean) I did an unofficial observation while walking laps on the deck - the folks reading paper books out numbered the folks reading on electronic media 4 to 1 so at least on that cruise/demographics the guests really preferred the paper books.

On our cruise last week on the Veendam my DW and I spent about 30 minutes on the last day sorting the books in the library into the correct areas. The books are marked with a section number and the sign above the shelves list the section number and many were in the wrong location. On a recent cruise we saw the CD and the "Techspert" trying to keep the shelves organized. HAL really needs to bring back the librarian so then can keep order and also help people with issues related to the internet connection that is now being handled by the front desk.

On our cruise last Feb on the Rotterdam (21 day Caribbean) I did an unofficial observation while walking laps on the deck - the folks reading paper books out numbered the folks reading on electronic media 4 to 1 so at least on that cruise/demographics the guests really preferred the paper books.

 

On our cruise last week on the Veendam my DW and I spent about 30 minutes on the last day sorting the books in the library into the correct areas. The books are marked with a section number and the sign above the shelves list the section number and many were in the wrong location. On a recent cruise we saw the CD and the "Techspert" trying to keep the shelves organized. HAL really needs to bring back the librarian so then can keep order and also help people with issues related to the internet connection that is now being handled by the front desk.

yes

On our cruise last Feb on the Rotterdam (21 day Caribbean) I did an unofficial observation while walking laps on the deck - the folks reading paper books out numbered the folks reading on electronic media 4 to 1 so at least on that cruise/demographics the guests really preferred the paper books.

 

On our cruise last week on the Veendam my DW and I spent about 30 minutes on the last day sorting the books in the library into the correct areas. The books are marked with a section number and the sign above the shelves list the section number and many were in the wrong location. On a recent cruise we saw the CD and the "Techspert" trying to keep the shelves organized. HAL really needs to bring back the librarian so then can keep order and also help people with issues related to the internet connection that is now being handled by the front desk.

Good for you. :). I did a bit of that on a couple of days too but in all honesty, I didn't have to do that much...

I really didn't see an issue on the Rotterdam and although some people put the books in the book drop, I saw a lot doing the same as myself - putting them back on the shelf where they belonged.

You don't need to know the dewey decimal system to put the books back where they belong. If everyone did that, it would save work and have books in the right place.

This is why cruise directors are worthless, this is the biggest nonsense I have ever heard, people do not destroy books, having done 60 plus cruises every library was always well stocked, books in great shape, and librarians never complained about the condition of the reading material....

You've obviously never worked in a library! The reason the shelves are well stocked with books in good condition is because books are replaced. Most libraries, including ship libraries, would never circulate a damaged book. And we usually don't complain to our patrons about it.

And surprise, people steal books! Yes, library books are free to read but people will still steal them. That includes people that can well afford to buy their own copies. I have seen people (twice) try to walk away with books from ship libraries without checking them out. They claimed they didn't know they needed to do that. They then put the books back and walked away.

As much as we would all like to think that library users are great people thirsting for knowledge the truth is that's not always the case and the costs are not small.

May I suggest sailing with Oceania, specifically the O class largest ships.

This brand offers all the former glorious attributes of HAL and they have magnificent libraries aboard with the coffee cafe located adjacent.

Just completed my first sailing on Oceania Marina in September - was blown away with the quality, the amazing service and the amenities.

The mass market lines are that - mass market. If you are looking for a more traditional product offering it becomes necessary to move upwards. After 20 years of mostly Celebrity, we left them due to their cheapening product and moved to Oceania.

My impression is that the mass lines in their arrogance take long time passengers for granted, assuming they will continue to book like the "obedient consumers" they are supposed to be. This allows the mass lines to reduce their product while raising prices.

Some posters here on CC are now moving to different lines away from the mass lines - how many - no one knows.

No library on a ship that does almost all 7 day cruises is no big deal....no library on ships that do 14++ day itinerary is a big deal to many of us cruisers who like to read a lot of PAPER books instead of staring at yet another screen in our lives.

I agree. Unfortunately, I don't think that HAL has any ships that do "almost all" 7-day cruises. Which means the loss of a library is a big deal to many of us.

May I suggest sailing with Oceania, specifically the O class largest ships.

 

This brand offers all the former glorious attributes of HAL and they have magnificent libraries aboard with the coffee cafe located adjacent.

 

Just completed my first sailing on Oceania Marina in September - was blown away with the quality, the amazing service and the amenities.

 

The mass market lines are that - mass market. If you are looking for a more traditional product offering it becomes necessary to move upwards. After 20 years of mostly Celebrity, we left them due to their cheapening product and moved to Oceania.

 

My impression is that the mass lines in their arrogance take long time passengers for granted, assuming they will continue to book like the "obedient consumers" they are supposed to be. This allows the mass lines to reduce their product while raising prices.

 

Some posters here on CC are now moving to different lines away from the mass lines - how many - no one knows.

Exactly. Holland America, Celebrity, Princess and P&O are prime examples of once middle class, middle of the road traditional lines, that have or are morphing into mass market, mega ships for the millennial market they are convinced (and I am not) is "out there" (with apologies to RCCL).

And the general feeling I have been getting from Holland America to me, as a past passenger, is "it would be ever so nice if you weren't here". Why would I want to go back to a line, spend my precious vacation time and money patronizing a line that doesn't want me or value my preferences? This Board sometimes sounds like a forum for battered spouses in an abusive relationship. You hate what they are doing to you, but you keep going back for more.

And yes, you are going to have spend MORE money to get what you value and switch to Oceania or Viking or Azamara. Costs more but the true value is far greater. Just is. Oceania is a superb product. And if you're in the UK, certainly to Cunard which is the last Carnival owned line that still caters to traditional "cruisers".

I always loved books. Then I got a Kindle. Haven't read a real book in years, and probably never will.

Thank you for answering one of my questions-yes I should bring paperbacks to leave on the Kdam and am I right that they should be left in the “library “ in the Crows Nest? I’ll bring as many as my luggage will allow.

As devil’s advocate I should add that I do feel that this is a good way to spread illness so wash your hands carefully!

May I suggest sailing with Oceania, specifically the O class largest ships.

 

This brand offers all the former glorious attributes of HAL and they have magnificent libraries aboard with the coffee cafe located adjacent.

 

Just completed my first sailing on Oceania Marina in September - was blown away with the quality, the amazing service and the amenities.

 

The mass market lines are that - mass market. If you are looking for a more traditional product offering it becomes necessary to move upwards. After 20 years of mostly Celebrity, we left them due to their cheapening product and moved to Oceania.

 

My impression is that the mass lines in their arrogance take long time passengers for granted, assuming they will continue to book like the "obedient consumers" they are supposed to be. This allows the mass lines to reduce their product while raising prices.

 

Some posters here on CC are now moving to different lines away from the mass lines - how many - no one knows.

You are so right BUT when you price out the difference in price a lot of people do not want to pay, We have been on most mass markets cruise lines but when you get to the Oceania, Seabourn , Crystal Regent , Seven Seas, Silver Seas there is a huge difference so is the price . BUT you get what you pay for . TO complain about a library books I do not understand. Its like people complaining abut the TV in the cabin on our first cruise there was none .

Thanks for the info

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During our last "Happy Hour" on the Rotterdam a couple of weeks ago, I saw a woman with two library books reading in the Crow's Nest. She was about a quarter of the way through the one she was reading. I have to admit I thought "I wonder if she is going to return those books, or take them with her." With no librarian on the ship, there are just no controls over returns or a record of who has what...

While a library is a "nice to have", especially for the ability to consult reference books related to ports (history, sightseeing, culture, geography), I would never depend on a ship's library for reading material on a long trip. Maybe my tastes in books is different from most, but I never seem to find much of interest. :o

I love having the ability to load any number of relevant books onto my Kindle and I usually have something for any mood or any length from short stories to lengthy tomes. Since I usually combine cruising with land travel and both involve flights, I like to travel light. It's a comfort to this avid reader to know I can bring so many choices with me on one small device. Just got back from a recent international business trip with lots of flights involved -- my Kindle held everything I might want to read from Jhumpa Lahiri's "Interpreter of Maladies" (collection of short stories) to Mary Beard's "SPQR" and even, for reference, the complete Gibbon's "History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"!

Reading on the Kindle Paperwhite is nothing like reading on an e-Reader. There is no eye strain. It's also nice to be able to adjust the font size and to be able to read in low light due to the soft lighting. Finally, the Kindle is so lightweight there is no strain to my hands from holding a heavy/bulky book when reading for long periods.

For anyone who has looked at the prices of books lately -- especially reference books of any sort -- it's not surprising HAL would be losing money if people are damaging books or not returning them!

During our last "Happy Hour" on the Rotterdam a couple of weeks ago, I saw a woman with two library books reading in the Crow's Nest. She was about a quarter of the way through the one she was reading. I have to admit I thought "I wonder if she is going to return those books, or take them with her." With no librarian on the ship, there are just no controls over returns or a record of who has what...

I’ve never once looked at another passenger and worried they were going to steal something.

and of course most books claim to have some kind of security device that alerts if u try and take a book off the ship....no idea if true or not.....i suppose anything is possible but i don't much think the typical HAL passenger is much of a book thief.....

To cruisemom42

I muse...

How much to download "Decline and rise of the Roman Empire onto your Kindle?

Could I download it onto my Kindle?

Can you envision a future HAL "Library" encompassing a free download ability for thousands of books while on board?

Again I muse

Bob

 

Reading on the Kindle Paperwhite is nothing like reading on an e-Reader. There is no eye strain. It's also nice to be able to adjust the font size and to be able to read in low light due to the soft lighting. Finally, the Kindle is so lightweight there is no strain to my hands from holding a heavy/bulky book when reading for long periods.

 

Sorry, what I meant to say above is that reading on the Kindle Paperwhite isn't like reading on the early generation e-Readers or like reading on a tablet or computer screen.

I know I will have to get accustomed to a Kindle before my next cruise no matter which line I sail. I will be able to take books that I know I want to read instead of just settling for a book I can read. I hope HAL continues to offer quiet public places suitable for reading.

I am a very avid reader and I have completely converted to reading books on a tablet. Being able to bring 20+ books in a single, light, multi purpose device vs. finding that space in my luggage is a blessing. If they are truly doing away with books on a cruise (which is silly because reading on a cruise is a very popular pastime and as this thread will attest, not everyone likes eReaders), then I hope they replace it with something else - a wider game/card game offering? Ability to download books/movies? Likely they will just put another jewelry shop in!

PS - I am game to try Oceania and I seem to be their target demographic as I get CONSTANT flyers from them - like 2-3 times a week! Where they got my name and info, I'm not sure, but this aggressive marketing is turning me off.

You've obviously never worked in a library! The reason the shelves are well stocked with books in good condition is because books are replaced. Most libraries, including ship libraries, would never circulate a damaged book. And we usually don't complain to our patrons about it.

 

And surprise, people steal books! Yes, library books are free to read but people will still steal them. That includes people that can well afford to buy their own copies. I have seen people (twice) try to walk away with books from ship libraries without checking them out. They claimed they didn't know they needed to do that. They then put the books back and walked away.

 

As much as we would all like to think that library users are great people thirsting for knowledge the truth is that's not always the case and the costs are not small.

You'll make a great cruise director, I don't know much about libraries, but I do know that people love to read and relax in the library, there are people that do puzzles, just sit back, it's right next to the coffee shop, it all makes for a very nice place for passengers to enjoy a day at sea, there is also something called service to the passengers...oh, by the way I was a college professor in comparative literature, but we don't know much about books...