SHOULD Jumpers be charged ??

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#1
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Found this(below) at
http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=2120
and I'm wondering if idiot thrill-seeker Jumpers SHOULD be charged
before this whole thing gets way outa line
and we're faced with 10ft. hi screens on deck
with coiled razor wire over the top
,
coz you know darned well this is where the whole thing is headed!

(Empire State Building??)

================================

Can Jumpers Be Charged for Rescue Costs?

The vast majority of Cruise Critic readers agree
that drunken passengers who leap off cruise ships and survive
should be billed for the cost of their rescue -- but can they be?

Well, even though guests that have gone overboard recently
have not been fined, it could happen depending on the circumstances,
according to a spokeswoman for Cruise Line International Association,
which represents the industry and 24 major lines.

CLIA further tells us that like any entertainment or lodging facility,
cruise lines can also charge for property damages
and/or ask guests to leave at the next port for improper behavior.
This is similar to a stance taken by the airline industry.
The Federal Aviation Administration, through a 2000 bill,
can fine unruly passengers up to $25,000 per violation -
- and one incident can result in multiple violations.

So why aren't unruly passengers being made to pay when they cause ships to stop in the middle of the ocean for rescue operations? First of all, it's important to note that the costs incurred by the cruise line and the U.S. Coast Guard are separate. The Coast Guard foots the big bill for search and rescue (the early July recovery of Carnival Liberty passenger Scott Durrin reportedly cost $21,000) -- and as a policy does not charge for such operations, according to a spokeswoman at the agency. The Coast Guard can only issue fines for hoaxes, not for individuals who find themselves in danger regardless of circumstance.

Carnival spokesman Tim Gallagher tells us that thus far the line has made the decision not to charge guests for any other expenses incurred (fuel, missed ports) even though it has the legal right to do so. "The primary reason is because in the instance where the person is not recovered alive or at all, then the family is understandably devastated," he tells us.

"We do not wish to add to their grief; in fact, in those instances, a member of our Carnival Care Team is assigned to that family to assist them ... even when the person is recovered."

--by Melissa Baldwin, Senior Editor

-------------------------------------------------------

Maybe if the grief-stricken families had done a better job of rearing their delinquents
this jumping folly wouldn't have happened in the first place,
so forgive me for not feeling sorry for those 'left behind'!

How about a LIFETIME BAN as well?
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#3
207 Posts
Joined Feb 2007
I absolutely think they should be charged. It might make a few people reconsider their reckless, stupid behavior. Quite honestly, alcohol or not, it is completely irresponsible. I can't stand the thought that someone would even try to commit suicide off a vacation cruise, either. I can see why they want to die. Their lives are so pathetic because they obviously don't care about ANYONE else's and probably get treated the same in return. That might sound completely crass and unempathetic, but if I wanted to end my life, I would try to do it in a way that would not disrupt the vacation of thousands of others. Am I being unreasonable here? Why should a handful of people ruin cruising for the masses who respect rules and BASIC fundamental code of conduct. Wow, wasn't planning a rant...I guess that topic just gets me heated!
#4
Lynn Haven, Fl
2,736 Posts
Joined Mar 2007
I spent over 35 years in the office machine industry. I used to tell my customers, "Operator stupidity is not covered by your contract."

In the case of cruise ship jumpers, "Terminal stupidity is not covered by your fare!" Bill 'em, ban 'em, jail 'em. It is time people started to take personal responsibility for their actions and the consequences thereof.

Doc
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#5
140 Posts
Joined Apr 2007
If I'm not mistaken, they made that runaway bride in ATL pay for her search as well as do community service. Don't really see the difference in the 2. An accidental fall is one thing, hard to see how that could happen, but if you are drunk or do it on purpose I say then you should pay for it and never cruise again.
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#6
Round Rock, TX
513 Posts
Joined Apr 2007
Forever blacklisted from a cruise is an excellent idea if you fall off because of stupid behavior, or jumping off like the perv did a few months back.

I'm not sure that people can be fined for jumping off, because normally it's up to the local jurisdictional agencies to do that, and does the ship have jurisdictional powers in the ocean where it happens? I'm not sure about that.
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#7
Ohio
2,198 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Yes, any jumper who lives should be charged for all expenses, plus fined and blacklisted for all cruise lines. Why can't the cruise lines fine survivers for Coast Guard costs and then donate that money to the Coast Guard. If the Coast Guard can't do it themselves. If the Coast Guard can not take the money. Than donate it to groups who work to saving the ocean and marine life. If the person does not survive after jumping, than the fines are dropped. The families should not have to suffer any more after losing a family member.
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#8
719 Posts
Joined Nov 2006
yes, if they think it would be fun to jump off the ship.....I think it would be fun to leave them at the next port and with a nice large fine.
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#9
Bradenton, FL
5,359 Posts
Joined Jan 2005
Originally posted by BlueJacketsFan1
Why can't the cruise lines fine survivers for Coast Guard costs and then donate that money to the Coast Guard.

Cruise lines have no authority to fine anybody for anything. They can send them a bill, but they have no recourse if the person doesn't pay outside of a court order. If someone doesn't have the money, even that won't help.
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#10
so. cal.
3,535 Posts
Joined Apr 2005
I say bill them no matter what. Do hospitals not bill for services when patients die. Yes they do. The estate if their is one pays the bills. If they don't get paid then they don't but at least everyone will know that they will be billed for the cost of rescue or recovery.
#11
Crystal Lake
5,081 Posts
Joined May 2005
They should at least have to buy a round
Again its Darwinism at its best..
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#12
NJ
867 Posts
Joined May 2004
Thanks everyone for your posts -- which very much mirror the comments we compiled last week for our Members Speak Out on this very topic: http://www.cruisecritic.com/features...les.cfm?ID=503.

We were surprised to learn that the Coast Guard does not charge or fine for search and rescue operations that result from drunkenness. But it is simply not their policy. One concern we have -- and we'd like to hear your thoughts on this -- is that the success rate of overboard rescues might encourage other "daredevils" to try the same thing (and put themselves and others in danger)....
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#13
San Diego, Ca
17,574 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Originally posted by boaterette
I say bill them no matter what. Do hospitals not bill for services when patients die. Yes they do. The estate if their is one pays the bills. If they don't get paid then they don't but at least everyone will know that they will be billed for the cost of rescue or recovery.
Better yet, send him the bill, if he doesnt pay, it goes to Collections, then on his TRW, good luck trying to buy something that required credit etc.


Fred
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#14
Bradenton, FL
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Joined Jan 2005
Originally posted by Wennfred
Better yet, send him the bill, if he doesnt pay, it goes to Collections, then on his TRW, good luck trying to buy something that required credit etc.


Fred
Since Carnival doesn't have your social security number, it wouldn't show up on your credit report.
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#15
3,114 Posts
Joined Jun 2002
One concern we have -- and we'd like to hear your thoughts on this -- is that the success rate of overboard rescues might encourage other "daredevils" to try the same thing (and put themselves and others in danger)....

There was an item on the news in the UK last week about "tombstoning" or jumping from somewhere high into the water. Usually it's teenage kids, but recently four or five middle-aged men jumped off a pier and two of them died. They also showed footage that teenagers have taken of each other jumping off high cliffs into the ocean. I can see where jumping off a cruise ship would appeal to idiots like this.

Lisa
#16
Raleigh, NC
417 Posts
Joined Feb 2006
Folks,
I was aboard the Valor when our jumper went in, the same week that the guy jumped off the FOS. Yes, the 15 yr old was rescued. And if it were up to me, I'd have bounced his Dumb*ss on each bulkhead enroute to the brig, or to the med facility where I'd have put him in restraints for the duration. He deserved a class A butt whooping, and that should have been shown via the ship's TV channel.

As far as someone committing suicide quietly, that rarely happens, in that most people desire the attention associated on those who almost do it. I'd wager that for most, their success was an "ooops" at the last second, that proved intractable, i.e. pulling a trigger which rarely offers a "do over".

For the families of those who do this, I feel their embarrassment, as they are usually victimized by the act of the person doing it, and those who wonder why the family didn't see it coming.

Regardless, fines and lifetime bans are just the beginning.
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#17
so. cal.
3,535 Posts
Joined Apr 2005
Originally posted by lisiamc
There was an item on the news in the UK last week about "tombstoning" or jumping from somewhere high into the water. Usually it's teenage kids, but recently four or five middle-aged men jumped off a pier and two of them died. They also showed footage that teenagers have taken of each other jumping off high cliffs into the ocean. I can see where jumping off a cruise ship would appeal to idiots like this.

Lisa
And yet people pay good money to see cliff divers.
#19
36 Posts
Joined May 2006
I can see one reason why they would be reluctant to charge jumpers - it puts them in the unfortunate position of having to distinguish between who jumped and who fell in by accident. Legally, it's a tough situation, and I can see why it's beneficial to avoid getting into that debate given the protracted litigation that could result. Any money they'd gain back through the charges would likely be immediately swallowed up by legal fees trying to defend a decision to charge someone if it comes to a dispute. Sad to say, but I imagine it's probably cheaper to eat the rescue costs.
#20
Barbados
26,596 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by sorcamc
I can see why they want to die.
Their lives are so pathetic because they obviously don't care about ANYONE else's
and probably get treated the same in return.
That might sound completely crass and unsympathetic,
but if I wanted to end my life, I would try to do it in a way
that would not disrupt the vacation of thousands of others.
Am I being unreasonable here?
You are NOT being unreasonable.
And honestly, although you may sound crass and unsympathetic
I appreciate your frankness. Like you, I'm decidedly not "Politically Correct"
when it comes to nonsensical irresponsible behaviour.

Most of these idiot jumpers are thrill-seeking
semi-suicidal, under-30 and male,with no real value to their lives.
In fact they're very lucky to survive the whole stupid self-inflicted ordeal.
There is no guarantee that they will be found.

Talk about stupid shark-bait!

What a great way to die, huh?
Thermal exhaustion for starters...
and finally mercifully being nibbled at, bit by bit
until it's all over.

What a pretty mental picture!
Maybe it'll help convince the immature not to do it, that way!

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