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jbruch

Beware!! Westerdam Capt. Waits for noboby

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... but the fact remains the people who initially responded to this thread were way overboard.

 

Is that a fact, or is that your opinion?

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:d

i'm with mnbruce on this one. The op admitted that he was wrong and i'm pretty sure that he felt bad enough at the time being left behind on shore while his family sailed off into the sunset and his op reflected the anger that still exists and he vented. God knows i had plenty of thoughts about his being left behind for what was admittedly his own fault but i didn't feel the need to rub salt into the wounds when he was obviously still hyped up about it. Some of the responses on this subject have been far from nice. A bit of compassion would not go amiss. A response somewhere along the lines of we're sorry that you missed your boarding but as you know those are the rules on hal (and most other cruise lines). I hope that this would not put you off sailing with hal again, it was an unfortunate and horrible lesson to learn.

 

Lets hope that none of us is ever put in the same or a similar situation as the original op. I admire his tenacity to come back and respond - he didn't just skulk away and perhaps he responded whilst riled up (after reading some of the less than nice comments). I have taken a back seat on this posting because i felt that given the lack of empathy on here i too would get involved in some less than nice comments (though not to the original op)

 

aside from the fact that his holiday was completely ruined who knows what other factors contributed to his anger.

 

My personal message to the op, i'm sorry your holiday was ruined - you were very unfortunate that time and circumstances meant that captain was unable to stop for you and that must be the hardest way possible to learn of your mistake. I also understand your anger, i hope you'll understand in the long run that with time you will be able to get over this costly mistake and hope that you have some excellent holidays in the future with your family that won't involve such a horrible ending.

 

:):):)

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Is that a fact, or is that your opinion?

 

I am sorry you are correct. It is my opinion the people who typed persistent and/or bold letters that IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT, despite the OP stating it was his fault upfront, need help with reading comprehension and were out of line.

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Okay, boys & girls, we've learned 2 things:

1) Don't be late for sailaway.

AMEN!!!

 

2) If you are late, & you miss the ship, don't vent about it here! (They'll skin you alive.:eek:)

 

Only if we can prove you wrong! Remember there are at least 2 of us posting to this thread that were on this sailing, myself, my hubby and Essiesmom. We were there, we saw (or in this case did not see) what the OP says happened. Hope that last made sense.

 

Joanie

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. . . My question that no one seems to care or understand is why these cruise lines say that they will be in a port and "depart" at a stated time when I guess they know and we know that the time of true departure is either always a 1/2 hour early or at the Captains discretion. Why can't the cruise lines be honest and clear and state they will be in a port at 4:30 as opposed to 5:00. We the "sheeple" lose 1/2 hour of our vacation and even more because some of you paranoid/scared get on hours before "all aboard tome". So is it false advertising to say the ship "departs" at one time only to find out the "all aboard is different" What does the word "depart" mean in their brochures and advertising?? This is why I challenged the fact that the ship would leave before a published "departure" time even though not all passengers are on board. . . .

 

I suspect that if the cruise line had posted a "departure time of 4:30 pm" and the ship had not left the dock by then you would be first in line to complain about how your valuable cruise time was being taken away by a tardy captain.

 

It appears that you fail to comprehend that passengers MUST be aboard by the stated time. This time is the time by which every passenger must be aboard or risk being left behind. It is that simple. The stated "departure" time is provided as information to help those who like to observer and take pictures of the sail away.

 

Every single cruise line has an all aboard time, as do all commercial passenger aircraft. In fact had you been in an airport and tried to board a plane after the cut-off you likely would still be answering TSA questions. Do you really think that you can board an airplane 1 minute before it's scheduled departure time? Have you never read in any passenger carriage contract words to the effect "all times are approximate" or "circumstances allowing" or "all times are subject to change"? Do you really think that it takes no time for a ship to raise it's gangways, reel in it's docking lines and get underway?

 

Even now it appears that you have failed to consider the many possible reasons why you were legitimately not allowed to board. First, there may have not been enough time because of a rapidly retreating tide. Second, local or ship security or other authorities may have a hard policy about the time between manifest submission and sail away. Third the cost of redocking would likely have greatly exceeded your cruise fare, let alone the $1,000 you offered - think 5 or six figures. Heck just the cost of idling the engines for the additional 1/2 - 1 hour to get you aboard would likely run close to five figures. Fourth, approaching or anticipated weather may have indicated that a slightly earlier departure was safer. I'm sure there are many other reasons.

 

It also appears that you don't understand the cruise contract or, for that matter, several thousand years of maritime practice. Aboard a ship that has cast off, as your ship had, the master (captain) is the ultimate authority responsible for the safety of vessel, all passengers and crew; empowered to make any decision he/she sees fit to make with respect to the vessel and its contents. Not only has this been in practice for several thousand years but you explicitly agreed to this before you boarded the ship for the first time. You explicitly agreed to be a "sheeple" (your word, not mine) when you accepted the cruise contract.

 

You have absolutely no idea why the captain decided to cast off ten minutes early. Your self centered presumption appears to be so that you could be taught a lesson or because the cruise line simply doesn't care for its customers. I suspect that you were the least of the captain's worries. You mattered perhaps one iota in the decision making process. The captain had more than 2,500 other people and a $300 million ship to worry about and you were known to be safe.

Edited by broberts

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...despite the OP stating it was his fault upfront, .

OP did not state that missing the ship was his fault. He stated that being late was his fault. Then he proceeded to lay the blame for his missing the ship squarely in the lap of the Captain and HAL.

It was the Captain who sailed, left early, did not return, and that is why OP missed the ship, according to OP. It is the OP who has made this in to two separate actions.

He has failed to take responsibility for missing the ship.

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Maybe the OP was wearing a robe, had a baseball hat on his melon backwards and was smoking a stogie? I'm just sayin':cool:

Edited by Copper10-8

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. . . the people who typed persistent and/or bold letters that IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT . . . were out of line.

 

I think some people need more fiber in their diet. :)

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Beware cruisers!!! I recently went on a cruise on the Westerdam and in the port of Aruba I was left behind with my wife and 2 kids begging the ship to wait a couple more minuites for me. When we booked this cruise the departure time in Aruba was 5pm but once we arrived it was announced the "All aboard time" was 4:30. The gangway was lifted at 4:41 as outlined in the ship log. What horrible service!! To sail early when a customer is missing from the ship?? I was 5 minutes too late. Granted I should have been more timely but mistakes, accidents do happen. My wife pleaded for them to wait, there was even communication from the port security that I was running to catch the ship and the Captain stated that he "waits for no one". I offered $1000.00 to lower the gangway back down ( the ship was still docked, just untied with gangway lifted) or even tender me out and again the Captain stated that he waits for no one. BEWARE!! Horrible service with no regard to passenger safety. Long story short my wife and 2 kids had 2 1/2 days at sea without me and I had to fly back to Ft. Lauderdale to meet them. Why would a ship sail early when passengers are missing?? This was my 10th cruise and I will never sail Holland America again. Even there corporate customer service was bad with a focus on covering there A$$ and backing the Capt. on his bad decision. Don't be late or this cruise line will leave you, no questions asked!!!

 

I guess it's all about you. What about the other 2000 people on board?:p

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Well said! There is a very thin line separating robust debate from incivility, and I fear that the line has been crossed on several occasions by both the OP and some responders.

 

I find the term "sheeple" offensive when applied to those who observe the rules for the sake of the common good. I also agree that the whiff of entitlement exhibited by the OP grates on the nerves whereas if he had offered his sorry experience as a cautionary tale for the benefit of other would have elicited expressions of empathy and compassion. But on the other hand, there is a disturbing tendency, seemingly born out of some über-loyalty, to train the flamethrowers on anybody who expresses any criticism of HAL. If we're all gonna "just get along" as civilized human beings, we have to rein in the emotions.

 

The guy did seem to grate on the nerves of some people, and I can understand why. He was a little..... aggressive? Entitled? But some of the responses seemed to take his statements personally. I mean the original statement/post. His second one was personal.

 

I am one of the few that had some sympathy and I still think that there has been a LOT of speculation about what might have been or could have been without any answers.

 

I don't recall the OP ever stating that anyone should pay extra money because of his mistake. He offered to cover $1,000 and we have no idea if that would have covered the cost or not and whether he could and would cover the entire cost. So making statements like "why should I have to pay for his mistake?" is speculation and not something that he said he asked for.

 

Many, many, many examples have been pointed out of waiting for passengers when the captain either knew where the pax were at or when they were on cruise tours. The capitan apparently knew where he was before the ship pulled away, but we don't know if this was before or after the gangway was pulled up. (Remember - he stated he was detained at the port agent's while they were contacting the ship).

 

Finally, the cruise materials that say we have until 5 or 6 or 7 pm in a port when we actually don't, annoys me too. I can totally figure out that I need to be on before then. I understand the difference between sailaway and all aboard time. I've been on cruises however where they make a big deal about "enjoy your time in Puerto Vallarta. We stay later than any other cruise line. we don't leave until midnight." Okay. We might not have left, but don't advertise like that whole time is there to enjoy. Still, I got my butt on the ship in Puerto Vallarta by like 7:30. Lol.

 

It all comes down to either the OP not listening to whatever explanations HAL gave him or HAL being unwilling to explain anything other than rules are rules. If the explanation is rules or rules, I feel the treatment was harsh. As rules are only rules when HAL wants them to be rules. If the explanation is we were already untied and retying to let down the gangway would cost us $30,000 or We had to leave RIGHT THAT SECOND because of tide and the ship behind us, then it wasn't harsh at all.

 

But his statement was that he was told that they had to leave because it was the captain's decision. So I think it's harsh. I do understand I am in the teeny-tiny minority on this one.

 

Excuse me, I think I need to go have a smoke! :p

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I am sorry you are correct. It is my opinion the people who typed persistent and/or bold letters that IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT, despite the OP stating it was his fault upfront, need help with reading comprehension and were out of line.

 

The OP stated that is was his fault that he was late. No one here is disputing him on that one. Then he proceeds to lambast HAL because the ship left on time - without him. And they even dared to put it writing that they would leave at 5:00PM - on time - in their brochure. (gasp!) Hard to have it both ways. :rolleyes:

 

The OP seems to have the reading comprehension problem, not the folks responding to him. He is evidently is not able to comprehend what, "Be on board at 4:30PM" means. The notification did not say "Be on board at 4:30PM if you feel like it" - or - "Be on board at 4:30PM if you can make it". It said "Be on board at 4:30PM". It said "Sailing time is 5:00PM" Hard to comprehend? Evidently for the OP, it is! Kinda hard to dispute that fact, too.

 

And just for you - no bold letters or underlined words! :)

Edited by luvs2travl

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I tried to get on at 4:48 or so. And am totally to blame, but to leave early when other family memebers are on board and to leave early?? Why not at least wait until 5pm, what's the hurry and what happened to passenger safety and service.

 

The ship DID NOT leave early. You said all aboard was 4:30 so leaving at 4:41 was not early.

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Well folks, I think that we have a new word to add to the "in" lexicon of CC------sheeple. :):)

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Maybe the OP was wearing a robe, had a baseball hat on his melon backwards and was smoking a stogie? I'm just sayin':cool:

 

No problem with any of those, but no diapers in the adult pool please...

Edited by Two@Sea

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Anyone want to join my new club? It's called HUSH! which stands for "Happily United Sheeple of HAL!" Club members are lovingly termed "members of the herd." Club benefits are innumerable, but a partial list can be found on the thread called "Special Touches that Make a HAL cruise for you" by following this link: thread:http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1156574

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I really wish he and his wife would come on here and "chat"............

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Beware cruisers!!! I recently went on a cruise on the Westerdam and in the port of Aruba I was left behind with my wife and 2 kids begging the ship to wait a couple more minuites for me. When we booked this cruise the departure time in Aruba was 5pm but once we arrived it was announced the "All aboard time" was 4:30. The gangway was lifted at 4:41 as outlined in the ship log. What horrible service!! To sail early when a customer is missing from the ship?? I was 5 minutes too late. Granted I should have been more timely but mistakes, accidents do happen. My wife pleaded for them to wait, there was even communication from the port security that I was running to catch the ship and the Captain stated that he "waits for no one". I offered $1000.00 to lower the gangway back down ( the ship was still docked, just untied with gangway lifted) or even tender me out and again the Captain stated that he waits for no one. BEWARE!! Horrible service with no regard to passenger safety. Long story short my wife and 2 kids had 2 1/2 days at sea without me and I had to fly back to Ft. Lauderdale to meet them. Why would a ship sail early when passengers are missing?? This was my 10th cruise and I will never sail Holland America again. Even there corporate customer service was bad with a focus on covering there A$$ and backing the Capt. on his bad decision. Don't be late or this cruise line will leave you, no questions asked!!!

 

You should have offered the captain a $2000 bribe to lower the gangplank. I'll bet he would have taken that since he doesn't have any professionalism or character. Smart move on your part though. Appeal to his greed! :rolleyes:

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Anyone want to join my new club? It's called HUSH! which stands for "Happily United Sheeple of HAL!" Club members are lovingly termed "members of the herd."

 

I want to join!!

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Anyone want to join my new club? It's called HUSH! which stands for "Happily United Sheeple of HAL!" Club members are lovingly termed "members of the herd." Club benefits are innumerable, but a partial list can be found on the thread called "Special Touches that Make a HAL cruise for you" by following this link: thread:http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1156574

I'm In. HUSH - I love it.

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Anyone want to join my new club? It's called HUSH! which stands for "Happily United Sheeple of HAL!" Club members are lovingly termed "members of the herd." Club benefits are innumerable, but a partial list can be found on the thread called "Special Touches that Make a HAL cruise for you" by following this link: thread:http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1156574

 

 

Lol! That's funny! That's my thread. And I was one of the few people that thought treatment of that guy might be a little harsh. :) Mind you, I said "a little" - not a lot!

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The ship didn't sail early---you arrived late.

 

 

It is 100% your fault.

 

 

Don't expect to find any sympathy on this board.

 

Dear Ruth, why do you shout? Isn't this discouraged by Cruise Critic?

 

Bob :cool:

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Anyone want to join my new club? It's called HUSH! which stands for "Happily United Sheeple of HAL!" Club members are lovingly termed "members of the herd." Club benefits are innumerable, but a partial list can be found on the thread called "Special Touches that Make a HAL cruise for you" by following this link: thread:http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1156574

 

 

I'm already in - posted on it March 3rd! This "sheeple" is a proud member of H.U.S.H!! :D

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Dear Ruth, why do you shout? Isn't this discouraged by Cruise Critic?

 

Bob :cool:

 

RuthC very very very SELDOM shouts!! In this case, I am glad she did! She spoke so loudly to make her point and in my eyes did it quite well! Thank you very much!

 

She is a very tender person, and generally takes the high ground. Obviously, this OP brought out a side she keeps in reserve and all I can say is GOOD FOR RUTHC!!!!

 

Joanie

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