Letter from Carnival Victory Captain confirming shooting death of passenger

[nrdsb4]

Carnival has a responsibility to make sure the tour operators with access to their ships run a safe operation. IF Carnival had any prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and did not warn their passengers about it, or those operators who used this beach as part of a tour then the lawyers will be circling. I doubt highly Mr. Arison thought of covering the expenses of the family on his own. I highly suspect Carnival's legal team wanted to set tone by doing what they could to fend off a wrongful death claim.

 

Carnival isn't off the hook...I am sure they are waiting for the other shoe to drop in this matter.

 

This is absurd. Neither Carnival, nor any other cruise line, can control what independent businesses do. The port is not closed to non-Carnival sponsored taxi drivers. Carnival doesn't own the island; they cannot keep businesses from operating there, and they cannot keep passengers from booking their own tours, getting on taxis, and going to the beach. They have no liability in this incident.

[hoop4321]

Carnival has a responsibility to make sure the tour operators with access to their ships run a safe operation. IF Carnival had any prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and did not warn their passengers about it, or those operators who used this beach as part of a tour then the lawyers will be circling. I doubt highly Mr. Arison thought of covering the expenses of the family on his own. I highly suspect Carnival's legal team wanted to set tone by doing what they could to fend off a wrongful death claim.

 

Carnival isn't off the hook...I am sure they are waiting for the other shoe to drop in this matter.

 

Do you think if they had an inkling that they would themselves have Coki beach excursions to cancel the day after? Wouldn't you think that the legal team you refer to would have had them cancel the excursion ahead of time for fear of the legal and financial fallout that such an unfortunate event would bring?

[adventureseekinmomma]

I have been to St Thomas once before, it has remained one of my favorite islands for the past few years. It is a stop on my upcoming cruise this August, it has really given me somthing to think about ecspecially because I will have three young children with me, as young as 2 yrs. Very sad....

[mamalicious]

My thoughts and prayers being said for the family! How terribly sad!

[Kurbanfan]

Carnival has a responsibility to make sure the tour operators with access to their ships run a safe operation. IF Carnival had any prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and did not warn their passengers about it, or those operators who used this beach as part of a tour then the lawyers will be circling. I doubt highly Mr. Arison thought of covering the expenses of the family on his own. I highly suspect Carnival's legal team wanted to set tone by doing what they could to fend off a wrongful death claim.

 

Carnival isn't off the hook...I am sure they are waiting for the other shoe to drop in this matter.

 

Ok I get it.........you have no clue what you are talking about.....thanks ;)

[Savoia]

This is absurd. Neither Carnival, nor any other cruise line, can control what independent businesses do. The port is not closed to non-Carnival sponsored taxi drivers. Carnival doesn't own the island; they cannot keep businesses from operating there, and they cannot keep passengers from booking their own tours, getting on taxis, and going to the beach. They have no liability in this incident.

 

Forget automatically defending Carnival for a moment.

 

IF Carnival had prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and still allowed tour operators to solicit their ships then Carnival legal better hope what they have done so far for the faimly suffices. IF Carnival had ANY knowledge in the past this beach or operator of prior incidents or was unsafe in any way and did not warn their passenegrs then the lawyers will of course be circling. Despite the small print in these matters..lawyers serve a purpose in holding companies and indviduals accountable.

 

I wouldn't shed a tear for Carnival having to write a big check at the end of the day.

[Nanaimobound]

Very tragic and sad.

May God bless the family and give them comfort.

[Nanaimobound]

Forget automatically defending Carnival for a moment.

 

IF Carnival had prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and still allowed tour operators to solicit their ships then Carnival legal better hope what they have done so far for the faimly suffices. IF Carnival had ANY knowledge in the past this beach or operator of prior incidents or was unsafe in any way and did not warn their passenegrs then the lawyers will of course be circling. Despite the small print in these matters..lawyers serve a purpose in holding companies and indviduals accountable.

 

I wouldn't shed a tear for Carnival having to write a big check at the end of the day.

 

I believe any port anywhere has the potential for being dangerous and volatile. People who choose to travel have to realize these things and bear the responsibility for where they go and how they choose to get there.

Yes there are more areas that are prone to danger than others, but this was not a Carnival excursion, and they do always give warnings and advice on how to take caution while in the various ports.

When I worked in San Francisco, there was a terrible unfortunate shooting of a tourist that happened. We were all horrified and saddened by it, but should cruise ships stop going to San Francisco? Any place on Earth has the potential for tragedy. It was a sad and tragic event. But it was not the fault of the Line.

[PHXrising]

Regarding the letter... I know some people do not approve of how it was worded, but I was on the ship when this very sad incident occured and they put that letter out while people were still out on tours. I think it provided everyone a little peace of mind to at least eliminate the guests who were on Carnival based excursions. It did for me as we did not know where anyone was, ect....just thought that might ease some angry minds out there

[sharecruises]

Regarding the letter... I know some people do not approve of how it was worded, but I was on the ship when this very sad incident occured and they put that letter out while people were still out on tours. I think it provided everyone a little peace of mind to at least eliminate the guests who were on Carnival based excursions. It did for me as we did not know where anyone was, ect....just thought that might ease some angry minds out there

 

OMG, I am sure that you all were so upset ..and worried.

 

Thanks for your first hand observation...others had mentioned that the "letter" may also have been used to update those on board...ie, for the many who had a loved one on a Carnival excursion this let them know they were ok

[dmdiver]

Carnival has a responsibility to make sure the tour operators with access to their ships run a safe operation. IF Carnival had any prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and did not warn their passengers about it, or those operators who used this beach as part of a tour then the lawyers will be circling. I doubt highly Mr. Arison thought of covering the expenses of the family on his own. I highly suspect Carnival's legal team wanted to set tone by doing what they could to fend off a wrongful death claim.

 

Carnival isn't off the hook...I am sure they are waiting for the other shoe to drop in this matter.

 

Okay, have you cruised before? You get off the ship & there are tons of tour operators looking for business. That has nothing to do with the cruise line at all. They are trying to make a living & they gather where the ships come in. It doesn't matter to them what ship is there, they just want some business. Carnival has always recommended their excursions (of course). However, they have absolutely no control over passengers once they leave the ship. We choose what activities we are going to do. This incident could have happened to anyone anywhere on foreign or domestic soil. It's ridiculous to place blame on the cruise line. If you take a cab somewhere & end up getting mugged after you are dropped off, do you blame the cab company? No. You chose where to go. If people feel strongly that St. Thomas is unsafe, then they need to choose a different itinerary or stay on the ship. If people stop getting off in St. Thomas, perhaps that will no longer be on the itinerary. As for us, we did a catamaran snorkel tour there & were fine.

[nrdsb4]

Forget automatically defending Carnival for a moment.

 

IF Carnival had prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and still allowed tour operators to solicit their ships then Carnival legal better hope what they have done so far for the faimly suffices. IF Carnival had ANY knowledge in the past this beach or operator of prior incidents or was unsafe in any way and did not warn their passenegrs then the lawyers will of course be circling. Despite the small print in these matters..lawyers serve a purpose in holding companies and indviduals accountable.

 

I wouldn't shed a tear for Carnival having to write a big check at the end of the day.

 

 

You still don't get it. Carnival CANNOT prevent independent tour operators from "soliciting" their passengers. Carnival CANNOT prevent its passengers from doing research on independent tour operators and making their own plans with them. Carnival CANNOT prevent its passengers from exiting the ship, entering a port, and hailing a taxi to anywhere they want to go!

[steelerfan27]

Regarding the letter... I know some people do not approve of how it was worded, but I was on the ship when this very sad incident occured and they put that letter out while people were still out on tours. I think it provided everyone a little peace of mind to at least eliminate the guests who were on Carnival based excursions. It did for me as we did not know where anyone was, ect....just thought that might ease some angry minds out there

 

It was lovely of the Captain to write that letter and I'll bet you are right it eased the minds of many.

 

Something I'm beginning to notice on here is you are right. Some of these comments seem angry and many of these notes turn into quarrels. It's a strange phenomenon.

[Savoia]

You still don't get it. Carnival CANNOT prevent independent tour operators from "soliciting" their passengers. Carnival CANNOT prevent its passengers from doing research on independent tour operators and making their own plans with them. Carnival CANNOT prevent its passengers from exiting the ship, entering a port, and hailing a taxi to anywhere they want to go!

 

And YOU still don't get it!

 

IF Carnival had any advance knowledge that this beach was unsafe or this tour operator was any sort of security issue then YES Carnival is on the hook. Would Carnival turn a blind eye to a potentially bad situation ABSOLUTELY!! All cruise lines do that. Every cruise line rolls the dice in the se situations and if something does happen let the lawayers and litagators straighten it out later.

 

If Carnival refunded money for incidents on their ships they'd be bankrupt! I don't see the suicides, murders, domestic abuse and drug busts passengers go through get their money refunded.

 

You guys really need to look behind the curtain with cruise line operators, not just Carnival..liability wise you are really on your own...its scary.

[nrdsb4]

And YOU still don't get it!

 

IF Carnival had any advance knowledge that this beach was unsafe or this tour operator was any sort of security issue then YES Carnival is on the hook. Would Carnival turn a blind eye to a potentially bad situation ABSOLUTELY!! All cruise lines do that. Every cruise line rolls the dice in the se situations and if something does happen let the lawayers and litagators straighten it out later.

 

If Carnival refunded money for incidents on their ships they'd be bankrupt! I don't see the suicides, murders, domestic abuse and drug busts passengers go through get their money refunded.

 

You guys really need to look behind the curtain with cruise line operators, not just Carnival..liability wise you are really on your own...its scary.

 

 

Hello...is anyone there? Are you under the impression that this tour operator was affiliated with Carnival in some way? Your argument might make sense if this was a Carnival recommended tour company. It was not. Do you not understand that it doesn't matter what Carnival thinks of an independent tour operator? Carnival cannot prevent its passengers from getting off the ship and hailing a taxi...any taxi...This tour operator was not a Carnival sponsored company. Carnival does not have the power to prevent taxis from lining up at the port and picking up passengers. Neither does Royal Carribbean, neither does HAL, neither does Disney. The cruise lines do not have the capacity nor the responsibility to research every tour operator or taxi driver at the ports...only the ones with which they have agreements. Your argument is similar to saying that American Airlines has a duty to research and police taxi drivers that line up outside of DFW and "forbid them" from "soliciting their passengers." Sorry, they cannot do that. If a taxi operator is licensed and in good standing, the airlines have nothing to say about it. Likewise with cruise lines. They have no power over independent tours if these tours are licensed or adhering to local regulations.

 

If I want to get online, research a tour company which has no relationship to the cruise line, book the tour and go on the tour, Carnival or RCI has no power to stop me. If I then do book this independent tour and something bad happens to me, I cannot sue the cruiseline when they have NO relationship to this independent tour guide.

[Kurbanfan]

You guys really need to look behind the curtain with cruise line operators, not just Carnival..liability wise you are really on your own...its scary.

 

Why exactly are you on a cruise board:confused:

[steelerfan27]

If I want to get online, research a tour company which has no relationship to the cruise line, book the tour and go on the tour, Carnival or RCI has no power to stop me. If I then do book this independent tour and something bad happens to me, I cannot sue the cruiseline when they have NO relationship to this independent tour guide.

 

Anyone can sue anyone for anything. The courts will decide if there is merit. The case may be dismissed or won or lost or settled. Often companies will settle out of court to avoid publicity even when they feel they are not at fault.

 

It's a shame about that little girl.

[nrdsb4]

Anyone can sue anyone for anything. The courts will decide if there is merit. The case may be dismissed or won or lost or settled. Often companies will settle out of court to avoid publicity even when they feel they are not at fault.

 

It's a shame about that little girl.

 

You're right. I can sue, but my suit will have no merit in the situation I described.

[okwriter]

Some of these comments seem angry and many of these notes turn into quarrels. It's a strange phenomenon.

 

Entertaining, though, isn't it?

[steelerfan27]

Entertaining, though, isn't it?

 

It's like watching a car crash. You know you shouldn't look but you can't help yourself.

 

The most surprising thing I'm finding is the level of hostility and anger. On a cruise message board?? :confused: Maybe some are overdue for one. :)

[nrdsb4]

^^^^^Raises hand, shouting, "me! me! I'll go." I'm not angry, but I'd love a cruise anyway just because.:)

 

Sigh. Not going to happen this year, but will live vicariously through other CC posters.

[Chief Cruiser]

Forget automatically defending Carnival for a moment.

 

IF Carnival had prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and still allowed tour operators to solicit their ships then Carnival legal better hope what they have done so far for the faimly suffices. IF Carnival had ANY knowledge in the past this beach or operator of prior incidents or was unsafe in any way and did not warn their passenegrs then the lawyers will of course be circling. Despite the small print in these matters..lawyers serve a purpose in holding companies and indviduals accountable.

 

I wouldn't shed a tear for Carnival having to write a big check at the end of the day.

 

Kurbanfan, you were really close with your assessment and indirectly, you are quite correct.

 

Let's see if this shoe fits: This is the type of person who would go into a grocery store, slip on a broken bottle of ketchup that a small kid had just broken, and would sue the grocery store for the damages. Nevermind that it was his/her own kid who broke the ketchup!

 

Or maybe like the person who would break into someone's home and bust up a foot after dropping the safe on it while trying to tote it off and then sue the homeowner for buying a heavy safe that inflicted injury to them!

 

Carnival controlling independent tour operators? That's like saying Delta is responsible for the parking lot company seeing to it that your vehicle remains safe and damage free while parked at the airport the week you are on a cruise! WOW!

 

BTW, I am not a Carnival Concubine either! Far from it. I just deal with the facts and call it like I see it. I deal with people like Savoia regularly. It's really hilarious what people think they are entitled to!!!!

[babies12]

This is so ridiculous, there is no one to sue here. This was just an unfortunate act of random violence where innocent people got caught in the crossfire. Carnival Cruise Lines has absolutely no liability here, unless it was and I say was a ship's sponsored excrusion. Since it was not, there is no blame on Carnival's part. To those who say otherwise, you are just like all the other amublance chasers seeking revenge.

[spleenstomper]

So if I am not mistaken, some believe that Carnival would be liable for a passenger exercising judgement, free will and critical thinking skills? :eek:

[hoop4321]

Forget automatically defending Carnival for a moment.

 

IF Carnival had prior knowledge this beach was unsafe and still allowed tour operators to solicit their ships then Carnival legal better hope what they have done so far for the faimly suffices. IF Carnival had ANY knowledge in the past this beach or operator of prior incidents or was unsafe in any way and did not warn their passenegrs then the lawyers will of course be circling. Despite the small print in these matters..lawyers serve a purpose in holding companies and indviduals accountable.

 

I wouldn't shed a tear for Carnival having to write a big check at the end of the day.

 

trying desperately to find logic in this post......:rolleyes: However, there are enough spelling errors in here to know they are not the most educated. Calling people names is a classic move by people who are overwhelmed with the conversation and can't keep up with the dialogue....so very sad.