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Venice: Loving It & Why??!!


TLCOhio
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43 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Appreciate these great, additional insights, comments and follow-up from the super-experienced Hank.  Great summary that the BIG, BIG ships are going to be less likely to be doling that famed sail-in that we so enjoyed in June 2011.  Glad we experienced those amazing views at that time, both for the sail-in and the sail-out. 

 

From the Travel Section of the London/UK Telegraph today, they had this headline: “Venice after lockdown: How social distancing will change the soul of the city” with these highlights: Think of Venice and what comes to mind? Art, bridges, cultural monuments, crowds... dolphins? Nature has reclaimed much in recent weeks.  In the “BC” (before corona) world of overtourism, Venice was king. Drowning in fake glass and fake masks and overwhelmed by 20 million tourists a year, its very status as a World Heritage Site was threatened.  In October 2019 representatives from the City of Venice, the Italian government, Unesco and the International Council of Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS) met to discuss the crisis faced by the city and surrounding lagoon. The World Heritage Committee warned that unless significant progress was made to protect it, Venice risked being inscribed on its World Heritage in Danger list.

 

Here are some more details from this reporter: "Ahead of borders reopening to EU residents on June 3, Venice is shaking off its lockdown cloak. Beaches at Lido de Jesolo are re-opening and some restaurants are open for socially distanced dining. Last weekend, passengers in masks queued for the vaporetti (water buses). On June 2 the Peggy Guggenheim Collection re-opens to the public. On June 1 the gondolieri will return to work, operating at 20 per cent capacity. Italy’s safe-distance guidelines of one metre will put enough space between passenger and gondolier but a mask must be worn while helping passengers on and off boats."

 

Full story at:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/italy/veneto/venice/articles/venice-after-lockdown-overtourism-how-social-distancing-will-change-soul-of-city/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Wonderful scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 239,450

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Interesting post but it does sound like more of the same.  In Italy there is always a lot of talk about controlling overtourism but it always seems to be just talk with zero action.   The original plan to deal with large ships at Venice involved dredging a new ship lane (most likely on the other side of Giudecca) which would have taken the ships out of the Giudecca Canal where most of the shore damage from overpressure (or so they tell us) was caused by the ships.   This would have allowed the ships to still access the port...but from a different direction/angle that would have minimized any damage to Venice.  But this idea seems to have been rejected in favor of sending larger ships to the mainland.  Of course they have yet to construct any kind of cruise ship facility on the mainland and there is also the problem (mentioned in my prior post) about transporting the thousands of passengers between some mythical mainland facility and Venice.  For now, it sounds like they will use some commercial docking areas that lack the facilities to deal with cruise ship passengers.   Leave it to the Italians to make a bad situation worse!  One Venice restaurant owner told us that he thought the best solution was to simply ban all the larger ships....completely!  When I suggested to him that it would mean he would have less business he laughed.  He explained that as long as the hotels were full (which happens with or without ships) he is happy and gets plenty of business.  

 

I would add that there are two Venice's.  One is during the daytime hours when the city is packed with "day trippers,"  bus tour groups, and cruise passengers.  The other Venice happens late in the afternoon when the day trippers and many bus tours have departed.   Venice takes on a magical atmosphere and one can even stroll through St Marks Square without running into the hoards.   Later at night when the streets are near-empty, it is a wonderful time to stroll through parts of the city.  But when we have done some overnights on cruise ships we noticed that most passengers return to the ship before dinner and do not go out at night.   We have had more then one passenger tell us "we have already paid for dinner on the ship so why go ashore."  We have long recommended that cruisers embarking or disembarking from Venice make plans to spend at least 2 full days/nights in Venice.

 

Hank

 

Hank

 

Hank

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On 5/28/2020 at 1:39 PM, Hlitner said:

I would add that there are two Venice's.  One is during the daytime hours when the city is packed with "day trippers,"  bus tour groups, and cruise passengers.  The other Venice happens late in the afternoon when the day trippers and many bus tours have departed.   Venice takes on a magical atmosphere and one can even stroll through St Marks Square without running into the hoards.   Later at night when the streets are near-empty, it is a wonderful time to stroll through parts of the city. Hank

 

Excellent points and follow-up from the highly experienced Hank.  Agree totally about their being "two Venice's" and that being there in the evenings can be amazing with less crowds and tourists.  My first visits to Venice were in December 1970 and to experience it with just the locals there made it a so super, totally wonderful!!!  Great memories from Venice!!

 

From the New York Times Travel Section a week ago, they had this headline: “Venice Glimpses a Future With Fewer Tourists, and Likes What It Sees” and this sub-head: "Can a city whose history and culture drew tens of millions of visitors a year reinvent itself? The coronavirus may give it a chance to try."

 

Here are a few of their story highlights: “For a change, it was the Venetians who crowded the square.  Days before Italy lifted coronavirus travel restrictions on Wednesday that had prevented the usual crush of international visitors from entering the city, hundreds of locals gathered on chalk asterisks drawn several feet apart. They had come to protest a new dock that would bring boatloads of tourists through one of Venice’s last livable neighborhoods.  'This can be a working city, not just a place for people to visit,' said the protest’s organizer, Andrea Zorzi, a 45-year-old law professor who frantically handed out hundreds of signs reading, 'Nothing Changes If You Don’t Change Anything.'   He argued that the virus, as tragic as it was, had demonstrated that Venice could be a better place. 'It can be normal,' he said.  The coronavirus has laid bare the underlying weaknesses of the societies it has ravaged, whether economic or racial inequality, an overdependence on global production chains, or rickety health care systems. In Italy, all those problems have emerged, but the virus has also revealed that a country blessed with a stunning artistic patrimony has developed an addiction to tourism that has priced many residents out of historic centers. Venice, which gave the world the word quarantine during a prior pandemic, has undergone many transformations in its roughly 1,500-year history. It started as a hide-out for refugees, became a powerful republic, mercantile force and artistic hub. Now, it’s a destination that largely lives off its history and a tourism cash cow worth 3 billion euros, or about $3.3 billion.”

 

Change is possible.  But to what?  And, how would it all work economically and practically?  Good questions!!

 

Full story at:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/world/europe/coronavirus-venice-tourists.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Sydney to NZ/Auckland Adventure, live/blog 2014 sampling/details with many exciting visuals and key highlights.  On page 23, post #571, see a complete index for all of the pictures, postings.  Now at 230,220 views.

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From this NY Times story and from their photographer, below is one of the visuals used to illustrate this profile.  Notice the masks?.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see these pictures larger/better!)

807720760_ScreenShot2020-06-09at11_43_53AM.thumb.png.77624d91b7ef660ff299d01ecca17ac5.png

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So thankful we made it on my dream trip to Italy last year. I scoured these boards like crazy. Since we had an overnight in Venice, we stayed later into the night, but not too late that we missed the last tram back to the shipyard area. It does have a totally different feel at night - but man, those vaporetto's get extremely crowded! Venice was the one place we had no tours planned and just walked around both days. Had an amazing time and can't wait to go back! 

 

Thanks for everyone's help in planning and answering questions along the way.

 

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We took an amazing gondola ride at just the perfect time - sunset.

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Sailing out of Venice.

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45 minutes ago, erby2283 said:

So thankful we made it on my dream trip to Italy last year. I scoured these boards like crazy. Since we had an overnight in Venice, we stayed later into the night, but not too late that we missed the last tram back to the shipyard area. It does have a totally different feel at night - but man, those vaporetto's get extremely crowded! Venice was the one place we had no tours planned and just walked around both days. Had an amazing time and can't wait to go back! 

 

Thanks for everyone's help in planning and answering questions along the way.

. . .

 

Wonderful photos!  Before our TA from Venice to Ft. Lauderdale back in Oct. 2011, we spent a few days in Venice at a small hotel not far from St. Mark's.  I had read several books set in the city and visited many of the places mentioned in them like La Fenice, the opera house, and the Lido across the lagoon.

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On 6/18/2020 at 11:35 AM, BarbinMich said:

Wonderful photos!  Before our TA from Venice to Ft. Lauderdale back in Oct. 2011, we spent a few days in Venice at a small hotel not far from St. Mark's.  I had read several books set in the city and visited many of the places mentioned in them like La Fenice, the opera house, and the Lido across the lagoon.

 

Appreciate these nice pictures for our friend in North Carolina, plus the follow-up above by Barb.  Wonderful, especially now, as we are in partial "lock-down", to bring back these nice memories from wonderful Venice.    

 

From the Travel Section of the London/UK Guardian earlier this month, they had this headline:

“ 'It's an exciting beginning': Venice opens to tourists” with this sub-head: "As Italy eases restrictions further, we report from Venice, where hotels and restaurants are eager to welcome back overseas visitors but some fear a return to mass tourism".

 

Here are some of the story highlights: “For the past two weeks, only those from the surrounding Veneto region have been able to go to Venice, but from today (June 3) people from all over the country are free to travel again, and the country’s international borders are open, with no quarantine restrictions. Venice’s Marco Polo airport is functioning, with Air France-KLM flights to Paris and Amsterdam, as well as onward international connections. More airlines are looking at recommencing flights from July, though foreign tourists are unlikely to arrive until the opening of Schengen frontiers is confirmed, which could be as early as 15 June. Everywhere I walk, bars and osterie are busy, with staff in masks and gloves, and customers using smartphones to scan barcodes on menus. While the flagship Architecture Biennale has been postponed till 2021, the Venice Film Festival is going ahead from 2-12 September.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jun/03/its-an-exciting-beginning-venice-opens-to-tourists

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 66,595 views:
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From the New York Times Travel Section this morning, they had this headline: “Venice Tourism May Never Be the Same. It Could Be Better.” with this sub-head: "The pandemic crushed the tourism industry in Venice and other overtouristed cities. But many see this as an opportunity to rethink a 'tourism monoculture' ".

 

Here are some of the highlights from this media story: Long before Venice became the destination of choice for millions of international holidaymakers, locals had a tradition of flânerie, an aimless stroll through the city’s calli, or walkways. They would bump into acquaintances for a chat and the occasional drink, an ombra de vin, a 'shadow of wine,' as it’s called in the lagoon.  That tradition has been picked up again. The pandemic crushed the tourism industry, curtailing the hordes of annual visitors that made flânerie a near impossibility, and now many residents have more time and space to enjoy the city’s slow pace and faded beauty.  There’s a new feeling many residents and local travel operators share: The crisis creates an opportunity to make future travel to and in their cities and regions more sustainable. This crossroads is sparking conversations on how to make tourism less taxing and more beneficial on urban infrastructure and for its local inhabitants.”

 

Here are some interesting historic perspectives from this NY Times profile: "The uniqueness of this Italian city has made it a worldwide attraction for centuries. And, tellingly, Venice’s rise as a travel destination coincided with its decline as an economic powerhouse.  As a city-state, Venice thrived as a commercial and financial hub for much of the Middle Ages. Its location midway between Constantinople and Western Europe made it an ideal junction for the trade of spices, silk and salt.  But as the center of trade moved from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic, Venice lost centrality and by the end of the 18th century, when it fell under foreign rule, its decline was unstoppable.   By the 19th century, Venice’s Lido became the place of pilgrimage for Europe’s well-off bourgeoise.  But by the late 20th century, Venice became what economists describe as a 'tourism monoculture,' borrowing the term from the risky agricultural practice of growing a single crop."
 

This is long and high-detailed reporting with great background for this fascinating part of the world.  Much to consider as for what happens next there and how.  

 

Full story at:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/02/travel/venice-coronavirus-tourism.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 49,688 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

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From the BBC a week ago, they had this headline: “Can Venice turn the tide on mass tourism?” with these highlights: “In recent years, mass tourism in Venice has driven up rents and driven out locals, leading some to call the city a 'historical theme park'. However, some believe that coronavirus is offering an opportunity for change, and Venetian residents are campaigning to protect the heritage of their city.”

 

The key part of this link is a seven-minute plus video with their reporter on site sharing details about Venice and its current status, where the future is headed, etc.  The various images and views bring back nice memories.  

 

Full story at:

http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200806-can-venice-turn-the-tide-on-mass-tourism

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 47,796 views.

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From this BBC video story, here is the opening visual as a drone rotates over a portion of scenic and historic Venic.:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see this visual larger/better!)

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On 5/23/2020 at 1:20 PM, TLCOhio said:

Here is more background from this writer:  "The building structures in the city also require continual maintenance as tides and waves caused by motorboats erode and crumble walls.  The exceptional high tide, which hit the city in November last year, added extensive damage of around €1 billion ($1.09 billion) to an already fragile city.  But the disastrous high tide didn’t grind the city to a halt. In its aftermath, residents banded together to begin the clearing up process. Volunteers used social media to offer their assistance as well as identify and share places where help was needed, arrange appointments and coordinate the operations. The arrival of coronavirus in the city sparked similar solidarity among residents." 

 

Full story at:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccahughes/2020/05/22/how-venice-coped-and-will-keep-coping/#29b11462759a

 

author: Rebecca Ann Hughes, for FORBES, May 2020

 

Thanks Terry!

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On 5/24/2020 at 11:21 AM, TLCOhio said:

From the Reuters newswire this morning, they had this headline: “Venice Film Festival will go ahead in September - Veneto governor” with these highlights: “The Venice Film Festival will go ahead as scheduled at the beginning of September, Luca Zaia, the governor of the region around the Italian city said on Sunday as the spread of the new coronavirus in the country slows.  Organized by the Biennale di Venezia company, Venice is the world’s longest running film festival. In January it announced that Cate Blanchett would preside over its 77th edition. The Cannes Film Festival, the world’s largest, was forced to postpone its latest edition in May due to the virus epidemic.  Italy plans to lift all travel curbs from June 3 and travelers from European Union countries will be able to enter without going into quarantine.

 

Reporting by Giselda Vagnoni; Editing by Toby Chopra, May 2020

 

Thanks Terry.

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On 6/9/2020 at 11:53 AM, TLCOhio said:

“For a change, it was the Venetians who crowded the square.  Days before Italy lifted coronavirus travel restrictions on Wednesday that had prevented the usual crush of international visitors from entering the city, hundreds of locals gathered on chalk asterisks drawn several feet apart. They had come to protest a new dock that would bring boatloads of tourists through one of Venice’s last livable neighborhoods.  'This can be a working city, not just a place for people to visit,' said the protest’s organizer, Andrea Zorzi, a 45-year-old law professor who frantically handed out hundreds of signs reading, 'Nothing Changes If You Don’t Change Anything.'   He argued that the virus, as tragic as it was, had demonstrated that Venice could be a better place. 'It can be normal,' he said.  The coronavirus has laid bare the underlying weaknesses of the societies it has ravaged, whether economic or racial inequality, an overdependence on global production chains, or rickety health care systems. In Italy, all those problems have emerged, but the virus has also revealed that a country blessed with a stunning artistic patrimony has developed an addiction to tourism that has priced many residents out of historic centers. Venice, which gave the world the word quarantine during a prior pandemic, has undergone many transformations in its roughly 1,500-year history. It started as a hide-out for refugees, became a powerful republic, mercantile force and artistic hub. Now, it’s a destination that largely lives off its history and a tourism cash cow worth 3 billion euros, or about $3.3 billion.”

 

by Jason Horowitz, June 2020

 

Thanks Terry!

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On 7/6/2019 at 9:53 AM, TLCOhio said:

Travel Section of the Sydney Morning Herald and other Fairfax newspapers in Australia two days ago, they had this headline: Venice, Italy travel guide: The secret Venice tourists don't know about” with these highlights about nearby and less crowded options near this historic city: “Here in Burano the streets are ghost-town empty this morning, it's an island at peace but for the urgent thud of those approaching steps.  Once that first vaporetto has cast off lines and chugged away, Burano will be quiet once again, its canals glassy, its old stone alleyways deserted, its charmingly wonky belltower silent in the pastel morning glow.

 

by Ben Groundwater

 

Thanks Terry!

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On 12/5/2019 at 1:19 PM, TLCOhio said:

New York Times Travel Section two weeks ago regarding the flooding.  They had this headline: “The Flooding of Venice: What Tourists Need to Know” with these highlights: “The high water that devastated Venice this month — flooding its streets, its squares, its landmark churches — has prompted a political storm in Italy, fresh concerns about climate change and debates about how to protect one of the world’s most treasured cities.  The city was built on a group of islands and islets in a lagoon separated from the Adriatic Sea by a thin stretch of land. Two rivers empty out in this lagoon, or laguna.  Three canals run through that stretch of land, allowing in ships — and Adriatic Sea water. When the tide rises, the seawater enters the laguna; when the tide falls, it exits. That happens twice a day, every day, resulting in a mix of seawater and fresh water.  Besides being brackish, Venice’s water is also highly polluted, since sewage water continues to be dumped in the canals. Sometimes strong winds and bad weather contribute to unusually high tides, which typically last between two and four hours. When Venetians talk about acqua alta, they mean a tide of 80 or more centimeters (about 2 feet) above the mean sea level. It’s a recurring phenomenon, especially in November and the winter months.”

 

By Anna Momigliano, December 2019

 

Thanks Terry!

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On 12/16/2019 at 11:03 AM, TLCOhio said:

reporting: "Tourists are turning their backs on Venice after a series of exceptionally high tides left part of the city underwater last month. Hotel booking figures have plunged, bringing fresh economic woe to the lagoon city.  Beloved around the world for its canals, historic architecture and art, Venice suffered its worst week of flooding in mid-November since records began in 1872, recording four tides above 140cm (4.59ft) in just seven days. Venice attracts more than 25 million visitors each year, with the tourism industry raking in around three billion euros (£2.5billion) annually from tourist trade in hotels and shops."

 

By REUTERS and SARAH HOLT FOR MAILONLINE December 2019

 

Thanks Terry!

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 From the current Conde Nast Traveller magazine, they had this headline: “Venice Sees a New Future for Tourism Post-Pandemic with this sub-head: "After a year light on visitors, locals see an opportunity for the city to reset."

 

Here are some of the story highlights: “They were the photos that went round the world: Shoals of fish swimming through the Venice canals; an empty St. Mark’s Square; the milky-white Rialto Bridge, free of milling crowds. The city that had struggled so publicly with overtourism in the past few years—an estimated 30 million visitors annually to a city-center with just 50,000 residents—was, it seemed, reclaiming its identity in the pandemic.  'We went from 100 to zero,' says Paola Mar, tourism councillor for the Venice authorities. But is that a good thing? While those on the outside eagerly shared videos of crowd-free canals, Venetians were less happy. For them, those photos meant economic ruin—and more.  'I guess those images have a certain fascination, but I don’t think there’s any beauty in a city that’s completely empty,' says Giuseppe Calliandro, who owns Antica Sacrestia, a restaurant five minutes’ walk from Piazza San Marco. Calliandro was one of the first to reopen his restaurant as soon as restrictions lifted. 'I wanted to give a message of hope—we’d been tested hard, but we were ready to rebound,' he says. 'Venice doesn’t only belong to Venetians—it belongs to everyone who loves it.”  For the tourists who have visited since the E.U. started relaxing its border restrictions in June, the upsides are obvious: more room on the notoriously narrow streets, shorter lines for the sites, the ability to snag restaurant tables as a walk-in instead of with a reservation.”

 

Interesting range of comments and views about Venice's future are included in this lengthy and detailed article.

 

Full story at:

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/venice-sees-a-new-future-for-tourism-post-pandemic

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 252,224 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

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Hi Terry -- interesting read. 

 

Part of the issue with Venice is that there are a lot of competing "visions" of how it should be, and no strong authority, apparently to make it happen. I do think they've taken a few steps forward -- but it will take more to stop Venice becoming just a theme park to its own history.  

 

These two paragraphs from the article are revealing:

 

"The elephant in the room when discussing Venice is always cruise ships. Not only do the vessels disgorge thousands of visitors into the city at a time (and occasionally even crash) but their gargantuan presence erodes the lagoon, turning it into a “sea strait” and increasing flooding, according to Stefano Micheletti from the activist group No Grandi Navi.

 

With no cruise ships passing through this year, “we saw a reappropriation of the lagoon by nature after only a few weeks,” he says. “We should take advantage of the pause to finally expel the ships.” But the authorities—who say some 5,000 jobs at the port rely on the ships, and that around 60 percent of the 1.6 million annual cruise passengers stay overnight in the city—want merely to move the port to Marghera on the mainland. The decision now lies with national authorities, who are expected to make the call in October."

 

How many such decisions has Venice seen in the last decade?  They are made and then overruled; or they are made but not carried out due to opposition...or corruption. 

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On 10/9/2020 at 5:23 PM, TLCOhio said:

 From the current Conde Nast Traveller magazine, they had this headline: “Venice Sees a New Future for Tourism Post-Pandemic with this sub-head: "After a year light on visitors, locals see an opportunity for the city to reset."

 

Here are some of the story highlights: “They were the photos that went round the world: Shoals of fish swimming through the Venice canals; an empty St. Mark’s Square; the milky-white Rialto Bridge, free of milling crowds. The city that had struggled so publicly with overtourism in the past few years—an estimated 30 million visitors annually to a city-center with just 50,000 residents—was, it seemed, reclaiming its identity in the pandemic.  'We went from 100 to zero,' says Paola Mar, tourism councillor for the Venice authorities. But is that a good thing? While those on the outside eagerly shared videos of crowd-free canals, Venetians were less happy. For them, those photos meant economic ruin—and more.  'I guess those images have a certain fascination, but I don’t think there’s any beauty in a city that’s completely empty,' says Giuseppe Calliandro, who owns Antica Sacrestia, a restaurant five minutes’ walk from Piazza San Marco. Calliandro was one of the first to reopen his restaurant as soon as restrictions lifted. 'I wanted to give a message of hope—we’d been tested hard, but we were ready to rebound,' he says. 'Venice doesn’t only belong to Venetians—it belongs to everyone who loves it.”  For the tourists who have visited since the E.U. started relaxing its border restrictions in June, the upsides are obvious: more room on the notoriously narrow streets, shorter lines for the sites, the ability to snag restaurant tables as a walk-in instead of with a reservation.”

 

Interesting range of comments and views about Venice's future are included in this lengthy and detailed article.

 

Full story at:

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/venice-sees-a-new-future-for-tourism-post-pandemic

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 252,224 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

 

Thanks Terry,

 

Conde Nast article written by Julia Buckley.

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  • 5 months later...

Big, interesting "news" this past week as to when and how restrictions/curbs will actually work in Venice for cruise ship visitors.

 

And will these steps really solved the various environmental and economic challenges facing this great, historic location??  Or, create, new questions and issues?  The biggest questions seem to be when and how all of these changes will be accomplished.  

 

From the Associated Press/AP by Nicole Winfield and a NY newspaper this morning, they had this headline: “Groups warn Venice lagoon still at risk after cruise decree” with these story highlights: “Activists opposed to cruise ships in Venice are seeking a meeting with the Italian government to argue that its latest proposal to re-route big ships away from St. Mark’s Square doesn’t address pressing environmental concerns about the fragile Venetian lagoon.  While it’s not articulated in the decree, the temporary plan would have big ships use the Marghera Port on the Italian mainland until a definitive solution is found and implemented — a potentially years-long process.   But the No Big Ships Committee, a coalition of activists, said the Marghera Port is still part of the Venetian lagoon and therefore must be rejected even as a temporary solution. The new route envisaged would take ships past the tail of the Lido and then hug the Italian mainland via the Oil Canal, away from Venice’s historic center but still into the lagoon and up to Marghera.  'It’s certainly a relief to hear the Italian government finally state its intention to keep large ships out of the lagoon as well as block them from coming close to Venice,' said Jane da Mosto of the We Are Here Venice group, which is part of the No Big Ships coalition.  'But the interim ‘temporary’ plan to bring large cruise ships to Marghera will not protect the lagoon,' she said in an email. 'This new route will still damage its fragile ecosystem, with inevitable negative knock-on effects.' ”

 

Here is more from this AP story today: "The No Big Ships Committee said it was seeking a meeting with the government to argue that the Oil Canal route to Marghera 'is not workable.'  'Any temporary solution has to be rejected because the risk is too high that it becomes definitive,' the group tweeted.  The Italian Cabinet passed a decree this week calling for a public tender of ideas to create a new docking port 'outside the protected waters of the lagoon.'  Culture Minister Dario Franceschini said the decree addresses longstanding UNESCO concerns and establishes that cargo and cruise ships bigger than 40,000 tons must dock outside the lagoon."

 

Full story at:

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Groups-warn-Venice-lagoon-still-at-risk-after-16074546.php

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 241,735 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

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Will probably keep my visits to Venice as a land based visit.  Too far from Ravenna. We docked in Ravenna and had to take transportation to get to Ravenna.  Well known for mosaics and a nice place to visit. 
Gail

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  • 2 months later...

From NBC-TV News morning, they had this headline: “Economy or environment? Cruise ship's return divides Venice with these highlights: “For some it was a welcome sight, for others, a return to the bad old days.  As the first cruise ship since the coronavirus pandemic made its way through the heart of Venice on Saturday, it was escorted by triumphant water-spouting tugboats and elated port workers.  But the 92,409-ton, 16-deck MSC Orchestra was also met by a small armada of wooden boats carrying flags bearing the message 'No Big Boats' as it traveled down the Giudecca Canal, past the iconic St. Mark’s Square and the Doges Palace.  Hundreds also gathered alongside the canal to protest against the ship as it left the city en route to Croatia and Greece.  'We can’t accept anymore that just for the business of a few, they insult the city in this way,' one of the protest's organizers, Tommaso Cacciari, told NBC News.  The MSC Orchestra's voyage was the first through Venice by a cruise ship in more than 18 months, and it reignited a movement that for more than a decade has opposed the passage of the enormous ships through the fragile lagoon due to environmental and safety concerns.”

 

Cruising resumes in Venice!!  Good or bad??  Here is more from this NBC-TV reporting: "Francesco Galietti, director of the Cruise Lines International Association Italy, said that the community wanted ships to return after the economic havoc the pandemic wreaked on the Italian economy.  'We have been asked to come back,' Galietti said. 'We are happy to contribute to the prosperity of Venice.'  The Venice Port Authority said that the cruise ship business accounts for 3 percent of the city’s GDP, and there are around 4,000 jobs that depend on it."

 

Full story at:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/economy-or-environment-cruise-ship-s-return-divides-venice-n1269772

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Sydney to NZ/Auckland Adventure, live/blog 2014 sampling/details with many exciting visuals and key highlights.  On page 23, post #571, see a complete index for all of the pictures, postings.  Now at 233,366 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

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Terry,  Good catch and link.  I will admit to being somewhat surprised as I thought that Venice had already had  banned ships of that size....but we are talking about Italy where one never knows.  

 

Ha

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/6/2021 at 6:39 PM, Hlitner said:

Terry,  Good catch and link.  I will admit to being somewhat surprised as I thought that Venice had already had  banned ships of that size....but we are talking about Italy where one never knows.  Ha

 

Great above comments and follow-up from Hank.  Agree that in Italy, that you never really know until . . . when??!!  Always many "twists and turns" in Italy.  Seldom is "it" simple, quick and easy??!!  

 

From the Wall Street Journal earlier this week, they had this headline: “Tourists Return, and Venice Wonders: How Many Are Too Many?" with this sub-headline: "Crowds and cruise ships paused during the pandemic, giving some Venetians hope the city could add limits on tourism permanently; ‘normality lost its meaning a long time ago.’ ”

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “The pandemic raised Venetians’ hopes for a reset of their famously over-touristed city once they emerged from Covid lockdowns.  Instead, hordes of day-trippers are back—and cruise ships too, brushing past St. Mark’s square until a new dock further from the city is completed.  Some had hoped the shutdown would be an opportunity to address longstanding problems such as expensive housing, or to generate jobs that didn’t depend on the sheer volume of visitors, which reached 30 million in 2019.  'Other places can deal with an avalanche of tourists,' said Claudio Scarpa, director of the association of Venetian hoteliers, who is among those who say Venice should try to attract fewer tourists who stay longer and spend more money. Before the pandemic, only a third of visitors actually booked a hotel in the city.  Regional and city authorities are looking at a range of measures to ease the crush and keep locals happy, including a booking system to regulate the number of people entering the city. 'Now is the time to act,' said Luca Zaia, president of the Veneto region, where Venice is located.  In the short term, the resumed influx provides a welcome lift after a brutal couple of years. Venetian hotels lost 85% of their revenue last year and even with the recent return of crowds, the picture is similarly bad so far this year. Revenue is down 95% through mid-June this year compared with the same period in 2019. Now, occupancy rates in city hotels have recovered somewhat to reach around 60% on weekends.”

 

Interesting background and insights as to how Venice figures out its future path forward.  Not simple, quick and/or clear??!!  

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tourists-return-and-venice-wonders-how-many-are-too-many-11624812240?mod=hp_featst_pos5

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 68,519 views:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696

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It’s seems Venice got what it wanted but to the nth degree.  
 

After visiting Venice via cruise a few times, we knew we wanted to stay a few days which we did a few years ago.  Just discussing with my husband that I want to go back and vacation in Venice. 

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3 hours ago, gfkcruiser said:

It’s seems Venice got what it wanted but to the nth degree.  
 

After visiting Venice via cruise a few times, we knew we wanted to stay a few days which we did a few years ago.  Just discussing with my husband that I want to go back and vacation in Venice. 

 Me too, sigh! 

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So here is a story for Terry and anyone else who wants to be bored with my stories :).  A few years ago we happened to be in Venice on a HAL ship that did an overnight.  DW and I spent a nice day in and around Venice (I think we may have taken the vaporetto out to Burano that day) and returned to the ship in late afternoon where we freshened-up (love this old term) before venturing back into Venice to enjoy our evening.  We noticed when leaving the ship (around 6pm) that we were the only folks within sight as we took the long walk (we did not want to wait for a shuttle bus) to the People Mover.  Once back in Venice we stopped at a cafe for cocktails and later went to a delightful seafood restaurant for a decent dinner.  After dinner we took a long walk and eventually stopped at another well-placed outdoor cafe (where there was some live music) for a nightcap.  We returned to the port a little after 10 pm and again took the long walk from the People Mover to our pier.  I still remember it was a gorgeous evening and as we walked towards the ship the only folks we passed (going into Venice) were crew members off for an evening ashore (we saw a few in the morning with very red eyes).   

 

But what was notable was we did not see a single other passenger heading back to the ship.  The reason was apparently very few cruisers left the ship for an evening ashore...instead preferring to stay aboard where they could get their included dinner.  Being a longer HAL cruise most passengers would have been heading to their cabins by 10.  On overnights there is very little happening onboard to keep folks awake.

 

It has been a similar experience when we have overnighted in other European ports (doing this in Lisbon is quite common on HAL).  When we have chatted with other cruisers (onboard) most tell us they do not like to go ashore unless on a tour and/or they do not see any reason to pay for dinner ashore when it is provided for them on the ship.  Why am I posting this?  Because while we cruisers like to think we contribute a lot to the local port economy the truth is that most cruisers contribute very little when compared to folks who stay in local hotels, eat 3 meals ashore, frequent bars, etc.  

 

The recent election (November 2020) in Key West had 3 different referendums involved in banning/limiting cruise ships.  All 3 easily passed (with over 60% of the vote) because a majority of locals did not support the idea of too many cruisers (or large ships) in their port.  The Florida Legislature has since passed a law to negate the opinion of the local voters.  It is interesting that it has been alleged that one of the main forces behind the scenes of the legislative action was a man who is heavily invested in a local hotel and private pier (used for some cruise ships) at Key West.  Or course this person does not live anywhere in the Keys and his own Florida community has no facilities for cruise ships :).  "Not in my back yard" comes to mind.

 

Hank

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/1/2021 at 5:40 PM, Hlitner said:

So here is a story for Terry and anyone else who wants to be bored with my stories :).  A few years ago we happened to be in Venice on a HAL ship that did an overnight.  DW and I spent a nice day in and around Venice (I think we may have taken the vaporetto out to Burano that day) and returned to the ship in late afternoon where we freshened-up (love this old term) before venturing back into Venice to enjoy our evening.  We noticed when leaving the ship (around 6pm) that we were the only folks within sight as we took the long walk (we did not want to wait for a shuttle bus) to the People Mover.    Hank

 

Appreciate this great story and follow-up from the super-experienced Hank.  Not boring.  YES, agree that spending evenings in Venice is wonderful as the "day-trippers" and cruise crowds have left, allowing an enjoyment of the character and charm of this historic city. 

 

From the Reuters newswire this morning, they had this headline: “Italy to legislate to keep liners out of Venice lagoon” with these highlights: “The Italian cabinet will meet on Tuesday to discuss emergency measures to keep large cruise ships out of Venice lagoon, three government sources said.   The government decided to act after the United Nations culture organisation UNESCO threatened to put Italy on a blacklist for not banning liners from the World Heritage site, one of the sources said.   The legislation will take immediate effect, the sources said, without giving further details.   It is likely to affect the business of cruise companies.  Rome has passed legislation in the past to limit liners' access to one of the world's most famous tourist sites, but an alternative docking point is not yet ready.  In April, Prime Minister Mario Draghi's government approved a decree to build a terminal outside the lagoon where passenger vessels over 40,000 tons and container ships can berth without passing in front of Saint Mark's Square, the city's most famous landmark.  Large boats were told to dock at the industrial port of Marghera, but even this intermediate solution is not yet ready because Marghera lacks a suitable docking point for liners.”

 

Oh, those details like building a new cruise ship docking location, can be a major factor as to how things would work . . . or not . . . affecting this future planning and operations.  Details?  Details??

 

Full story at:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-italy-legislate-keep-liners-out-venice-lagoon-sources-2021-07-13/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

AFRICA?!!?: Fun, interesting visuals, plus travel details from this early 2016 live/blog. At 51,497 views. Featuring Cape Town, South Africa’s coast, Mozambique, Victoria Falls/Zambia and Botswana's famed Okavango Delta.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310337

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