now OOSTERDAM PULLS OUT OF MAZATLAN..

[blackroze]

I appologize, as my topics were not an integral part of this topic, please delete if necessary. Thank you.

[sdschwrt]

Not to mention probably the main reason the ship's have pulled out.

Here's a new article where the cruisers have actually been targeted -

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2011/01/mazatlan-mexico-crime-cruise-ships-disney-princess-drug-violence/140242/1

 

From http://travel.state.gov/travel/ and then choosing specific countries:

 

Netherlands Antilles:Street crime remains a concern in St. Maarten, Curaçao, and Aruba. Valuables, including passports, left unattended on beaches, in cars, and hotel lobbies are easy targets for theft. Visitors should leave valuables and personal papers secured in their hotel. Burglary and break-ins are common at resorts, beach houses, and hotels. Armed robbery occasionally occurs.

 

Jamaica: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in Jamaica, particularly in Kingston and Montego Bay. While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern for tourists is becoming a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Additionally, there have been frequent allegations of police corruption Tourists should take all necessary precautions, always pay extra attention to their surroundings when traveling, and keep windows up and doors locked while in a vehicle. Travelers should avoid walking alone, exercise special care after dark, and always avoid areas known for high crime rates.

 

St. Lucia:Crime, including armed robbery, does occur and is rising in St. Lucia. Violent crime is often connected to narcotics trafficking. Petty crime also occurs, with tourists being targeted often.

 

Bahamas:The Bahamas has a high crime rate. New Providence Island in particular has experienced a spike in crime that has adversely affected the traveling public. Pickpocketing and theft remain the most common crimes perpetrated against tourists. However, there has been a spate of more violent criminal activity in 2009. Three separate groups of tourists were held at gunpoint and robbed at popular tourist sites in and near Nassau; each of these incidents occurred during daylight hours and involved groups of more than eight persons. Several other groups of tourists allegedly were victims of armed robbery at more remote locations.

 

Sounds like crime against tourists in these Caribbean ports is more serious than theft of a laptop and a necklace yet the harbors of these islands are overflowing with tourists!

 

From http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12772586&page=1 (These are relevant excerpts but read the whole story

 

"Safety is very important to us and we believe this change is necessary to provide the best family vacation experience for our guests," Company spokeswoman Christi Erwin Donnan said in an e-mail Wednesday.

 

Carnival's 2,500-passenger Spirit is moving from San Diego to Australia by 2012 because of economic woes and increasing fears over traveling to Mexico. However, the company has said that if it looks like the market in southern California is rebounding by the time the Spirit moves to Australia, it will be replaced in San Diego with another ship.

 

Carnival also has two year-round ships docked in Long Beach that will continue their itineraries to Ensenada, Puerto Vallarta and Cabo San Lucas.

 

Gallagher said Carnival Cruise ships still sail full, but the decline in business to Mexico is shown in the drop in cruise prices to fill the ships.

 

Are we to believe the cruise lines that safety is their concern or is it only safety in the ports where they are losing money resulting in stopping to go to Mazatlan but continuing to go to ports possibly more unsafe for tourists in the Caribbean.

 

There's much more to this than just a laptop and necklace. Here's a link to Mazatlan's only english newspaper, detailing recent violence in the city:

 

http://mazmessenger.com/2011/01/24/violence-continues-to-plague-the-city/

 

It is sad but true that there is a high level of very violent crime that is targeted but it is not the tourist that is targeted but rather other criminals.

 

The assassination at the de Gala hotel in the early hours of the morning involved an abducted victim brought to the hotel, brutally shot, the hotel reception shot up and I beleive a note may have been left. The hotel subsequently closed suggesting that this was a threat against the owners of the hotel.

 

This occurred at a time when cruisers would not be present.

 

The shooting at the disco occurred at 3:20 am. It was clearly a targetted assasination.

 

This shooting occurred at a time when cruisers would not be present.

 

I do not deny that there are a large number of murders, assassinations in Mazatlan. To my knowledge, I have been reading Noroeste every day since November to evaluate the safety of going to Mazatlan, all have occurred in areas that tourists do not go to or at times when tourists would not be present.

 

Mazatlan is a wonderful enjoyable city and it is tragic that the economy will be devastated due to the pulling out of the cruise ships for the ostensible reason of safety even though this is not a consideration relevant for the profitable Caribbean ports.

 

Would I cruise to Mazatlan? If I could have gotten a nonstop flight to San Diego with my frequent flyer miles I would have a reservation for a March cruise which should have stopped in Mazatlan. Since the nonstop to Miami was available, we are assuming the risk of being robbed in the Caribbean;a risk that is real based on the state department travel advisories.

 

On a final note, flame away if you must but provide sources for your claims regarding tourist crime and threats to personal safety in Mazatlan. To quote Winston Churchill "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on" The tourist industry of Mazatlan is being decimated by perceptions based on half truths and innuendos. Lets get our pants on.

[swedish weave]

SDSCHWRT -- Your comments are appropriate and factual, but those who are intent on scaring tourists out of Mexico will jump on you like dogs on a fresh bone.

[Glaciers]

Regardless of the reason, cruise line revenues in the Mexico market are down. There is more money to be made in other areas of the world.

[brichar499]

We enjoyed our day with you a couple of years ago off the Osterdam. Mazatlan was certainly peaceful and non-threatening during our visit. I hope that condition returns. In the meantime, good luck to you and your family till the sun shines again.

[realmccoy]

Can't believe how worked up people can get over Mazatlan? Really? Especially those of you quoting isolated incidents, other Countries, crime in the US...really? Many of you really don't know what it is like in Mexico or Mazatlan do you? I have grown up living in a State that is Mexico's neghbor...guess I see more than you do. Since the demise of the majority of the Columbian Cartels in the 1990's, Mexico has come forth as the leader. Mexico is at the brink of a civil war...the Government vs the Cartels. Almost all drugs in the US come from Mexico. Not all of it is manufactured there, but it is transported thru Mexico by the Cartels. GOMEXICO is absolutely right...the police are not your friend...most work for the Cartels. Go ahead, google Sinaloa and LaFamilia Cartels...to name only two of the many Cartels in Mexico. My sources, Homeland Security, Boarder Patrol and intel that I get that are for "Law Enforcement Use Only" and not for your eyes because as citizens you only see what they want you to see. Yes, there is crime and violence everywhere...even in Rome:eek: The fact is, the cruise lines must protect their buisness and passengers and that is exactly what they are doing.

 

Ok, now that I have gotten that off my chest! Word I got from my Carnival PVP today is that the Spirit most likely will not be stopping in Mazatlan next week either. The passengers will be given a letter from the Captain once on board with details about the sailing...we will see what happens.

 

As a side note, I am not planning to get off the ship in Mazatlan if we do stop.

[dforeigner]

Can't believe how worked up people can get over Mazatlan? Really? Especially those of you quoting isolated incidents, other Countries, crime in the US...really? Many of you really don't know what it is like in Mexico or Mazatlan do you? I have grown up living in a State that is Mexico's neghbor...guess I see more than you do. Since the demise of the majority of the Columbian Cartels in the 1990's, Mexico has come forth as the leader. Mexico is at the brink of a civil war...the Government vs the Cartels. Almost all drugs in the US come from Mexico. Not all of it is manufactured there, but it is transported thru Mexico by the Cartels. GOMEXICO is absolutely right...the police are not your friend...most work for the Cartels. Go ahead, google Sinaloa and LaFamilia Cartels...to name only two of the many Cartels in Mexico. My sources, Homeland Security, Boarder Patrol and intel that I get that are for "Law Enforcement Use Only" and not for your eyes because as citizens you only see what they want you to see. Yes, there is crime and violence everywhere...even in Rome:eek: The fact is, the cruise lines must protect their buisness and passengers and that is exactly what they are doing.

 

Ok, now that I have gotten that off my chest! Word I got from my Carnival PVP today is that the Spirit most likely will not be stopping in Mazatlan next week either. The passengers will be given a letter from the Captain once on board with details about the sailing...we will see what happens.

 

As a side note, I am not planning to get off the ship in Mazatlan if we do stop.

 

You hit it right on the nail. Most are basing their facts on what the media is providing and take it as gospel. Yet when people state that there are other facts in play they want to see a WEB link. As I stated before, just because one does not see anything and feel safe, does not mean nothing is going on. But then most are living in the white rather than the yellow and orange state of awareness.

[sdschwrt]

Can't believe how worked up people can get over Mazatlan? Really? Especially those of you quoting isolated incidents, other Countries, crime in the US...really? Many of you really don't know what it is like in Mexico or Mazatlan do you? I have grown up living in a State that is Mexico's neghbor...guess I see more than you do.

 

I am amazed that someone can see more of what is going on in Mazatlan from 1000 miles away in orange county than I can from having spent two weeks in Mazatlan every June for the past ten years and from reading three Mazatlan newspapers everyday!

 

My sources, Homeland Security, Boarder Patrol and intel that I get that are for "Law Enforcement Use Only" and not for your eyes because as citizens you only see what they want you to see.

You hit it right on the nail. Most are basing their facts on what the media is providing and take it as gospel. Yet when people state that there are other facts in play they want to see a WEB link. As I stated before, just because one does not see anything and feel safe, does not mean nothing is going on. But then most are living in the white rather than the yellow and orange state of awareness.

 

Once again the great secret information I'm an insider so that makes me an expert and you must accept my irrelevant statements and unsupportable conclusions argument. Sounds like the famous line from Senator Joseph McCarthy "“I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five (people) that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department” We know what a lie this was and how many lives were ruined by this list which was never produced! We must not let the tourist industry in Mazatlan be destroyed by the same tactics.

 

By the way dforeigner, you must have missed the secret memo leaked today in the newspaper from homeland security that we are no longer signifying threat level by color!

 

Yes, there is crime and violence everywhere...even in Rome:eek:

 

Finnaly a true statement. Guess what! There is even crime in Orange county. From the Orange county register June 18, 2010. http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-06-18/crime/24642480_1_three-gang-related-homicides-gang-members-gang-problem

Santa Ana has 362 sworn officers trying to contain 5,000 documented gang members.

But gang-related assaults have risen sharply in recent months, police statistics show. Most involved guns or knives, but attackers have also wielded bottles, a baseball bat and, in one case, a large tree branch.

 

The drop in homicides – not just in Santa Ana, but across Orange County – "is not for lack of trying," said John Anderson, the assistant district attorney in charge of the gang unit. "That's just bullets not being lethal," he said. "The attempted homicides have remained pretty steady."

 

Sounds like Orange county is perhaps even more dangerous than Mazatlan.

Oh, I forgot, realmcoy is from Orange county and feels safe there but will not visit Mazatlan because it is unsafe. Must be that he knows from the intel for "Law Enforcement Use Only" that what we read in the newspaper is a lie. There really is no gang related violence in Orange county but for some reason, the powers that be do not want people to know this. and they are just hiding this fact so that they will not be inundated by pesky tourists.

 

I think we must stop spreading fear and deal with documentable facts relating to what is happening in Mazatlan. What is happening in Culiacan or on the US Mexican border is irrelevant. It is the people of Mazatlan and not us who will bear the consequences of the unjustified panic caused by people posting their unsupportable opinions.

 

As a side note, I will probably go to Mazatlan for my annual trip this June but when I overnight in California I will be sure to stay clear of Orange County

[realmccoy]

I am amazed that someone can see more of what is going on in Mazatlan from 1000 miles away in orange county than I can from having spent two weeks in Mazatlan every June for the past ten years and from reading three Mazatlan newspapers everyday!

 

 

 

 

Once again the great secret information I'm an insider so that makes me an expert and you must accept my irrelevant statements and unsupportable conclusions argument. Sounds like the famous line from Senator Joseph McCarthy "“I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five (people) that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department” We know what a lie this was and how many lives were ruined by this list which was never produced! We must not let the tourist industry in Mazatlan be destroyed by the same tactics.

 

By the way dforeigner, you must have missed the secret memo leaked today in the newspaper from homeland security that we are no longer signifying threat level by color!

 

 

 

Finnaly a true statement. Guess what! There is even crime in Orange county. From the Orange county register June 18, 2010. http://articles.ocregister.com/2010-06-18/crime/24642480_1_three-gang-related-homicides-gang-members-gang-problem

Santa Ana has 362 sworn officers trying to contain 5,000 documented gang members.

But gang-related assaults have risen sharply in recent months, police statistics show. Most involved guns or knives, but attackers have also wielded bottles, a baseball bat and, in one case, a large tree branch.

 

The drop in homicides – not just in Santa Ana, but across Orange County – "is not for lack of trying," said John Anderson, the assistant district attorney in charge of the gang unit. "That's just bullets not being lethal," he said. "The attempted homicides have remained pretty steady."

 

Sounds like Orange county is perhaps even more dangerous than Mazatlan.

Oh, I forgot, realmcoy is from Orange county and feels safe there but will not visit Mazatlan because it is unsafe. Must be that he knows from the intel for "Law Enforcement Use Only" that what we read in the newspaper is a lie. There really is no gang related violence in Orange county but for some reason, the powers that be do not want people to know this. and they are just hiding this fact so that they will not be inundated by pesky tourists.

 

I think we must stop spreading fear and deal with documentable facts relating to what is happening in Mazatlan. What is happening in Culiacan or on the US Mexican border is irrelevant. It is the people of Mazatlan and not us who will bear the consequences of the unjustified panic caused by people posting their unsupportable opinions.

 

As a side note, I will probably go to Mazatlan for my annual trip this June but when I overnight in California I will be sure to stay clear of Orange County

 

Oh wow, crime in the OC...why didn't anyone ever tell me...I am sooooo scared. By the way, Realmccoy is a "she" and "she" is in LE and quite aware of the "dangers" of the OC...including the lions and tigers and bears...oh my! Get back to the thread subject and stop trying to slam everyone.

[gomexico]

The discussion of crime stats - real or imagined - in other regions of the world are mostly irrelevant to the discussion here. Such arguments are often put forth by people who are pranksters and/or those who seek to divert attention to the problems at hand. That new and irrelevant information should be added to the forums covering that part of the world - appropriately so.

[swedish weave]

The discussion of crime stats - real or imagined - in other regions of the world are mostly irrelevant to the discussion here. Such arguments are often put forth by people who are pranksters and/or those who seek to divert attention to the problems at hand. That new and irrelevant information should be added to the forums covering that part of the world - appropriately so.

 

Since this is a CRUISE forum, we should then revert back to only incidents in Mazatlan involving cruise passengers. I will re-submit the statement by Port Director Diaz.

 

The industry magazine Seatrade Insider quoted Mazatlan Port Director Alfonso Gil Diaz as saying the incidents causing concern were minor, such as one passenger whose necklace was snatched.

 

"Mazatlan is very, very safe," the magazine quoted Gil Diaz as saying. "It's a shame because last year we had 526,000 passengers with no incidents ... This year there were three very minor things outside the terminal."

 

The other problems in Mazatlan have not involved cruise passengers, so therefore should not be discussed here.

[gomexico]

The sources you've been quoting in this lengthy discussion seem all to be from persons whose employment depends upon promoting tourism. Sorry, but I don't believe the statements attributed to the port director or whomever he is.

You seem to believe Mazatlan and Mexico have a legitimate system of recording and reporting crimes. Neither does. Maybe 2 or 3 out of every 10 crimes committed in Mexico are reported. And the media sources are threatened with death if they report all of what's been happening. That's not just speculation, it's fact. We almost always learn of crimes against tourists from tourists themselves. And though it may come as a surprise to many people reading these forums here - I doubt that more than a very small percentage of persons who cruise the Mexican Riviera have ever posted a comment here or participated in other ways.

The cruise lines did their investigations and deemed that at the present time it's too risky to bring thousands of foreign visitors to Mazatlan. They too, it would seem, don't give too much credibility to the statements of the port director. If you have an issue with their reasoning then please feel free to communicate that with them ... and do us all a favor by reporting back on what you hear from them.

Continue to believe what you believe, and I'll rely on what I know of the situations - because there's a point in a discussion when it's very clear not everyone will be in agreement. And good for that. That means anyone reading the discussion(s) is presented with the varying viewpoints from which they can reach their own conclusions.

Enjoy the Winter weather, wherever you are!

[MSN-Travelers]

The discussion of crime stats - real or imagined - in other regions of the world are mostly irrelevant to the discussion here. Such arguments are often put forth by people who are pranksters and/or those who seek to divert attention to the problems at hand. That new and irrelevant information should be added to the forums covering that part of the world - appropriately so.

 

Well Bill,

 

You use nothing but stats and anecdotal stories about crime in Mexico, as a nation, in an effort to paint a horrific picture of the cruise ports along the MR. Anybody that doesn’t buy into your tripe is a “prankster”. Tell us, the poor unwashed, what are the “problems at hand”?

 

It is important to reference crime in the port cities, crime in other parts of Mexico and crime in other parts of the world as it helps to put things in perspective. I feel the main stream media is in the business of sensationalizing actual events, making them bigger than they really are, in an effort to create news. The spin on the story becomes the news and the actual events are lost. You, yourself, draw on your personal experiences in other parts of Mexico and expect us to believe that we should share your point of view. If all of Mexico is the cesspool of crime that you have us believe, then you would be spreading “the word” on the Cancun, Cozumel & Playa del Carmen boards as well.

 

FACT – Government travel warnings are carefully crafted statements prepared by lawyers and diplomats. Their goal is to provide vague information in an effort to reduce the risk of law suits while seeking to avoid offending foreign nations.

 

FACT – A tourist couple were mugged and a crew member’s laptop was stolen in Mazatlan. The city has seen a general increase in crime and is approaching the same levels as Chicago. Yet it was “reported” in the media that cruise ship passengers were “targeted”.

 

FACT – That cruise ship industry has a long history of dropping ports-of-call when the general social/political conditions ashore present a hazard to their passengers. What is happening with Mazatlan and Acapulco is not new, it just happens to be in our back yard this time. It gives the US press an opportunity to sell fear.

 

FACT – The H1N1 outbreak never hit the Mexican port cities. The media hype in the US had the cruising public in such a panic that it shut down tourism on the MR.

 

FACT – The cruise industry is pulling ships from the MR because passengers don’t spend any money aboard the ships. On average, only 30% of MR passengers book excursions through the ships compared to 80% in European ports. The MR itinerary hasn’t proved to be as profitable as other routes.

 

Yes, there is an upsurge of crime in Mazatlan and Acapulco. Yes, the cruise industry has stopped porting at those cities because their passengers will be at risk right now. And yes, the same events in the Med, a few years back. were barely reported as it wasn’t in our back yard.

 

Bill … you want all of us to stick to the facts as they apply to the port cities along the Mexican Riviera. Tell us the facts. How may violent crimes have taken place in Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta and the other cities that the ships visit? How many have involved tourists that arrive aboard cruise ships? And, as an expert in this area, can you offer a factual opinion on the threat faced by cruise ship passengers that visit Pacific coast port?

 

Since you hale from Chicago, you should be equally qualified to talk about your own city. We are going to the Strictly Sail boat show on Navy Pier tomorrow. We will arrive at dawn and leave before it gets dark (like a cruise ship passenger). Chicago had 439 murders (30,393 violent crimes) last year. They don’t report how many victims were tourists vs. locals. Can you tell me if I am foolishly placing my family at risk by visiting your city?

[swedish weave]

The sources you've been quoting in this lengthy discussion seem all to be from persons whose employment depends upon promoting tourism. Sorry, but I don't believe the statements attributed to the port director or whomever he is.

 

You seem to believe Mazatlan and Mexico have a legitimate system of recording and reporting crimes. Neither does. Maybe 2 or 3 out of every 10 crimes committed in Mexico are reported. And the media sources are threatened with death if they report all of what's been happening. That's not just speculation, it's fact. We almost always learn of crimes against tourists from tourists themselves. And though it may come as a surprise to many people reading these forums here - I doubt that more than a very small percentage of persons who cruise the Mexican Riviera have ever posted a comment here or participated in other ways.

 

The cruise lines did their investigations and deemed that at the present time it's too risky to bring thousands of foreign visitors to Mazatlan. They too, it would seem, don't give too much credibility to the statements of the port director. If you have an issue with their reasoning then please feel free to communicate that with them ... and do us all a favor by reporting back on what you hear from them.

 

Continue to believe what you believe, and I'll rely on what I know of the situations - because there's a point in a discussion when it's very clear not everyone will be in agreement. And good for that. That means anyone reading the discussion(s) is presented with the varying viewpoints from which they can reach their own conclusions.

 

Enjoy the Winter weather, wherever you are!

 

I was attempting to comply with your request to stick to the subject at hand, and that is danger to cruise passengers in Mazatlan. Other reports are irrelevent if you mean what you post.

[Wanna_Cruize]

Speaking of specifics to the current situation in Mazatlan, someone posted to our roll call with a message they got from their NCL PCC regarding the situation in Mexico:

 

rsohn65820

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Salem Oregon

Posts: 836

 

Thought you might like to know. I just received an email from my PCC at NCL that NCL has made an offical statement to the press regarding Mazatlan. Here is what she said in the email.

 

Actually NCL has made an official reply to the media in response today stating that no changes are going to be made to our schedule.

“At this time, all of our ships are sailing as scheduled. We are closely monitoring the situation, as the safety and security of our guests is our number one priority.”

I will keep you posted if I hear of any changes…

__________________

Reba

 

-----------------------

 

So, it looks like, for now, we may be going to Mazatlan on Tuesday. If so, I will probably still go to Stone Island.

[blackroze]

I think our media/government is creating the proverbial "He called your mom fat", so that we will eventually agree to go to war with Mexico...

There is far worse crime in our country, carribean, Iraq, but for some reason Mexico is getting the "news worthy". Mark this day, because our Government, and Media are trying to war locally... maybe because it is cheaper... who knows...

[Solrpwrd]

How do Mexico's problems differ from the drug problems we have in the USA? Shootings, corruption, etc. happen here also. More publicity ??

 

We have the very same problems in every city in the good ol U.S.A., however, people outside each state don't realize it. With Mexico, they advertise everything that goes on! The worst part is the border and if the Homeland Security would get off their A** and do something - Maybe...just MAYBE we could get back on our schedule of cruising the Riviera. EVERY STATE has it's shootings, rapes, robberies, etc...no matter what country it is. What are the people to do that have businesses down there going to do now?!? Tourists are their livlihood. Mazatlan has had a few shootings, but it isn't on Stone Island, they wouldn't allow that at all!! And I don't think it is in El Centro..too many people. It's somewhere the cartels (drug gangs) go which is NOT in the middle of the Golden Zone. I'm sorry for Frank and Randi as that is their only line of work that keeps the beans on the table. I think the cruise lines should check out Mazatlan again..find out where these shootings occured.

[gomexico]

In response to Solrpwrd's comments"

"We have the very same problems in every city in the good ol U.S.A., however, people outside each state don't realize it."

Your remarks minimize the seriousness of what’s taking place in Mexico - and not just in the border zone. It’s a problem national in scope - not something you’ll see in the United States or Canada.

"With Mexico, they advertise everything that goes on!"

Local media outlets have been threatened and many do not report much news of the terrorism and violence, except when the terrorists instruct them to report specific events that have taken place. Assassination of journalists is at an all time high in Mexico and international organizations have repeatedly pointed this out.

"The worst part is the border and if the Homeland Security would get off their A** and do something - Maybe...just MAYBE we could get back on our schedule of cruising the Riviera."

There are more than 250 million legal border crossings annually and count me amongst the people who appreciate the good job the border control agents do. You apparently don’t take the time to read much about current events or daily news and are unaware of what happens along the USA/Mexico border. The war and terrorism under discussion here is on Mexican soil and the United States Department of Homeland Security and the United States Government has no direct role or authority in Mexico. There are hundreds of thousands of refugees who have fled to the USA - fearing for their lives due to the terrorism.

"EVERY STATE has it's shootings, rapes, robberies, etc...no matter what country it is."

I don’t think there are situations in the United States or Canada that are even remotely comparable to the war and terrorism taking place in Mexico. You might better compare the situation with Iraq, though.

"What are the people to do that have businesses down there going to do now?!? Tourists are their livlihood."

I think most people travel for their own purpose, their own enjoyment. Wherever we vacation or visit our money helps people. People who travel to Canada and the USA help those two countries as well. I don’t travel out of a sense of guilt or social responsibility. It’s a big world with many travel options available to us and we should each decide where to go based on our own standards.

"Mazatlan has had a few shootings, but it isn't on Stone Island, they wouldn't allow that at all!! And I don't think it is in El Centro..too many people. It's somewhere the cartels (drug gangs) go which is NOT in the middle of the Golden Zone."

Two states account for 45% of the war and terrorist deaths in Mexico last year, according to a report I read: Sinaloa (where Mazatlan is situated) and Chihuahua. Cruise lines didn’t disrupt the vacations of tens of thousands of passengers - without having first convinced themselves it was necessary. The government has now pressured the lines to return to Mexico - it carries a big stick - and those in decision making positions have no doubt reviewed the situations in the past week and adjusted accordingly. The terrorist activity is - away from the border - more of a “roving” nature than stationary. Warfare will break-out in Mazatlan one day, Acapulco the next and Cancun the next. The inability to predict with some accuracy where the problems are is a real challenge.

[Okie1946]

Oosterdam will be docking at Maztalan tomorrow. Two ships docked today. Maztalan is back on the schedule. See Frank's posting

[Cruzi]

What great news that the ships are back in port and things are back on track in Mazatlan!

[Okie1946]

Yes - this is great news and perhaps we can get back to posting statements as cruisers looking to enjoy our selves in a new environment rather than debate the pros and cons of the political atmosphere in a country that we really have no right to say anything about unless we are citizens and residents of that nation.

 

Now that I am off my soap box - I hope everyones' future cruises to Mexico are enjoyed to the fullest:cool:

[Nanaimobound]

The past December, we were in Mazatlan for the day, off the Sapphire Princess. We were well aware of the recent violence in the city but not one to over-react, while DH had an hour massage at a well-known massage place downtown (talked about of the cc board), I walked the 6 blocks to the Plaza and mercado. It surprised me to see at least 2 policia with machine guns on every block. I wasn't wearing jewelry, I wasn't carrying a purse and my walk was uneventful... but I felt uncomfortable. I would have felt the same, had DH had been with me. We have sailed the Mexican Riviera a couple of dozen times, but this visit was different. I heaved a sigh of relief once we were aboard the ship again. I very much agree with the cruise-lines in their decision to by-pass Mazatlan. Next year, our March 2011 cruise will stop in Acapulco. We haven't made any decision about getting off or staying on the ship... but the fact that we're thinking about it, is very sad.

I have been going to Mazatlan since 2003, and that same police presence has always been there!

I find it laughable that the cruise lines consider Cabo to be so much safer.

That being said, I think just using common sense is of course in order. as a woman, I wouldn't be walking alone anywhere downtown, or taking transportation without a man as an escort, or in a group. Mexico is not a country for women to be alone. They are extremely old fashioned, and women are not out running around by themselves. You are a target for this

reason. While I agree that caution is in order, it's the same caution I use here in the Bay area sad to say. i have witnessed worse crime and attacks here in my hometown than those recently touted in the media about Mazatlan. Acapulco and the riviera Maya where Cozumel is has had very serious violence as well, more so than Mazatlan, and they are still stopping there.