Should HAL prohibit power scooters?

[Hobbsey]

The case of Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line filed back in 2000 was the driving force for by the US Supreme Court making this ruling. On Monday June 6, 2005 the USA Supreme Courted Ruled Foreign-flagged cruise ships serving US ports must comply with the public accommodations requirements of the Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA).

 

The USA Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 that cruise lines operating in US waters must take reasonable steps to make their ships accessible to all passengers - including those who use wheelchairs and electric scooters.

 

Jeff, thanks for the well wishes. I'm cruising in November with my mini scooter.

 

Wonderful, thanks for the information. We'll be cruising in Dec and will be sure to treat scooter users with all due respect and courtesy.

 

: )

[xxoocruiser]

Wonderful, thanks for the information. We'll be cruising in Dec and will be sure to treat scooter users with all due respect and courtesy.

 

: )

 

You're Welcome !

 

Also I too will also be respectful and courteous to non scooter users. We all deserve to have a wonderful enjoyable vacation !!!!!

[cjm66]

I agree - courtesy and a sense of humour can help a lot. Wonder if this lot ever go on a cruise?

 

 

Colleen

[Copper10-8]

I agree - courtesy and a sense of humour can help a lot. Wonder if this lot ever go on a cruise?

 

 

Colleen

 

Yes, when they were younger on HAL's Potsdam

 

[jcrandle]

Wow, what a thread. I can't express a first person opinion, as I am able to walk without assistance (well, as long as I don't overdo happy hour). My MIL used a power wheelchair for her last 5 years, and I will confess that sometimes she abused the furniture. However, I was never aware of any time she threatened of injured another person.

 

As to the issue of obese people using scooters or power chairs, my old math professor cautioned against using correlation to imply cause and effect. Every researcher today has to take a second and third look when seeing a high correlation between two events, NOT to jump to the conclusion that there is a cause and effect relationship.

 

When observing that many people who use mobility devices are obese, one might assume that the use of mobility devices contributes to , or causes obesity. Yet, it might also be true that people who cannot walk unaided, don't get enough exercise to burn calories that would be a normal caloric intake for an able person, but are too much for someone who cannot walk.

 

For those who believe that scooter users should be restricted, I'd say "walk (er ride) a mile in their shoes. That said, if I am run over by a scooter or power chair driver, I will be the first to express my displeasure, even to the extent of registering a complaint with the front desk for egregious damage.

I would also express vehement concern about children who are able bodied using a scooter as a toy.

 

However, I believe that mobility devices properly used allow disabled passengers to enjoy the aspects of a cruise, and reasonable accommodation should be made for them.

[cruisnfool]

I am a nurse and fully believe in scooters to assist people to live normal lives. In my work I refer people often to get scooters.

 

I did observe a time when a scooter driver did not see a young child...maybe 3yrs old but the parents were there to get the child out of the way.

 

The issue is that some people who are driving scooters may not have the best sight & hearing and therefore can cause accidents. The other issue is that cruise designers will need to take this into consideration when designing new ships to make wider halls or scooter only lanes...etc.

 

You can't ban what gives a person the abilty to enjoy life to the fullest.

 

As for the obesity statement we do have the largest population of obese people but many people have scooters that are not obese.

[Boatdrill]

 

The second time she bumped me (I was walking in line to go into a theater), I turned around, pulled the key out of her scooter, and told her she could pick it up at the front desk.

 

I bought the key down and complained about her behavior. She must have gotten the message because I notice her being a lot more careful in her driving. Of course, maybe she didn't want to go to the front desk for her key again.

 

Chances are they lost it.

[luvbluseas]

Do to the many passengers who have suffered injuries due to careless operation of the scooters.

 

 

My husband was forced to start using a mobility scooter a little over a year ago when he had a partial foot amputation. I have been AMAZED at how many rude and ignorant people there are in this world!

 

My husband is VERY careful and and VERY polite, he yields to everyone because NO ONE yields to him! No one wants to be behind the man in the cart! Yes, he has hit people, they cut so close in front of him that he cannot stop in time, the carts do not stop on a dime. He tries to get in a check out line and people actually SLAM their carts into him to get in front of him.

 

We were on a Celebrity Cruise last May and people REFUSED to move back in the elevator so that he could get on the elevator with them. The ONLY way to get him on the elevator was for me to get on, hold the "open" button and then I would keep saying move back, move back. Then the people were pi**ed at me and so was my DH because he is very low key, and hates to make a scene. SO if most of you out there were not so rude to handicapped people, you would not get hit by the carts!

 

We did have a few pax help him with doors, etc., and help him by holding an empty elevator door one time. The "X" staff was OUTSTANDING!!

 

But I still have to say that we have been truly amazed by how rude the general population is to the handicapped. Many of you should truly be ashamed of yourselves.

 

Mobility carts do not stop on a dime, on a ship people may be using rental carts that they are not totally familiar with & they all operate a little differently. Often those that need those carts may have illnesses that limit their hand and eye coordination. YOU are the one that is making a very poor decision if you cut 'right' in front of their cart because YOU just have to be in the buffet line before them, or YOU just have to get on the elevator before them or YOU just have to get that pool chair before them! Where ARE your manners! Maybe you deserved to get hit!

[sparky-elpaso]

My husband was forced to start using a mobility scooter a little over a year ago when he had a partial foot amputation. I have been AMAZED at how many rude and ignorant people there are in this world!

 

My husband is VERY careful and and VERY polite, he yields to everyone because NO ONE yields to him! No one wants to be behind the man in the cart! Yes, he has hit people, they cut so close in front of him that he cannot stop in time, the carts do not stop on a dime. He tries to get in a check out line and people actually SLAM their carts into him to get in front of him.

 

We were on a Celebrity Cruise last May and people REFUSED to move back in the elevator so that he could get on the elevator with them. The ONLY way to get him on the elevator was for me to get on, hold the "open" button and then I would keep saying move back, move back. Then the people were pi**ed at me and so was my DH because he is very low key, and hates to make a scene. SO if most of you out there were not so rude to handicapped people, you would not get hit by the carts!

 

We did have a few pax help him with doors, etc., and help him by holding an empty elevator door one time. The "X" staff was OUTSTANDING!!

 

But I still have to say that we have been truly amazed by how rude the general population is to the handicapped. Many of you should truly be ashamed of yourselves.

 

Mobility carts do not stop on a dime, on a ship people may be using rental carts that they are not totally familiar with & they all operate a little differently. Often those that need those carts may have illnesses that limit their hand and eye coordination. YOU are the one that is making a very poor decision if you cut 'right' in front of their cart because YOU just have to be in the buffet line before them, or YOU just have to get on the elevator before them or YOU just have to get that pool chair before them! Where ARE your manners! Maybe you deserved to get hit!

 

Well said. My parents taught me to treat others as I would like to be treated. Every time I see a person in a scooter (or walker, etc.) my thought is how great a thing scooters are - those folks wouldn't be able to get out and travel otherwise.

[mamaofami]

Personally, I think that young children running around the dining room and teens running through the halls pose more of a problem than scooter riders.

[tcook052]

Where ARE your manners! Maybe you deserved to get hit!

 

Sorry but can't help find your last two sentences ironic as IMHO it doesn't seem to be good manners to wish others ill.

[cruisemom42]

If common courtesy is observed by all, there should not be a problem.

 

Able-bodied people should be aware of those who are not. Holding a door for someone, not crowding the person on the scooter, these are all things that take but a second of consideration.

 

Those on scooters (and the people with them) should also be courteous. Park your scooter out of the way, don't drive it at high speeds, and be aware of others around you.

 

I do think that, as regards elevators and hallways, people on scooters sometimes don't queue up, and I do find that annoying. If I've been waiting quite a while for an elevator and I was there before the person on the scooter, I would feel I was -- from a consideration all around standpoint -- right to board the elevator first.

[xxoocruiser]

Personally, I think that young children running around the dining room and teens running through the halls pose more of a problem than scooter riders.

 

Totally agree !

 

CC posted an artcile on the face page of it's website today lsitingthe "& Worst OnBoard Evil Doers ".

 

"Bratty Kids came in at # 4.

 

Those that want to probihit mobility scooters on board might be interested to know that Mobility Scooter users weren't even mentioned in the article.

 

Here's the link to the article and slideshow http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1398&src=tocc#

[Cbears]

I hope this thoroughly depressing thread does not discourage people who need mobility devices from cruising, or from using anything that will make their cruise a good one.

DH uses a scooter, and it made his cruise an enjoyable experience, as it is his right to have.

We found that people were very considerate, as was he.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yes. :)

 

That the flight attendant let you board first doesn't seem to be the issue; generally boarding procedures allow those in wheelchairs or those who need extra assistance to board first so they don't hold up the general boarding process once it starts. Really, it's about accommodating the disabled or injured while not also causing the whole boarding process to grind to a halt.

 

However, if I were on your flight and you were allowed to deplane first, moving slowly with a hurt leg/foot, I would be annoyed. The solution there is to ask you to remain seated (so you won't be bumped), and allow the other people (who may be in a hurry to make a connecting flight or whatever) to get off the plane first. Then you can depart at your leisure.

 

Your choice to travel injured shouldn't mean that other people's plans are disrupted. Isn't that lack of awareness of others the very thing we're talking about on this thread?

 

I was interested in your response to the poster who said the flight attendant had requested other passengers to wait while she went off the plane first because I have never seen this to be the case. People with mobility issues are allowed first on the plane for their ease and comfort, but they are asked to wait until all passengers have deplaned and then wheelchairs willl help them off.

 

Of course, other passengers along with me are often in awe of the number of miracle flights these days where passengers unable to walk on the plane without assistance somehow manage to walk off with ease.:)

 

And unfortunately it is this sort of thing that make people cynical sometimes. I can't believe there's anyone here that would begrudge a scooter to any passenger who requires it on a cruise.

 

Of course scooters should not be banned, but they should only be used by those who absolutely need them. And they are available to give those who need them equal access, not priority access. All too frequently I've been on cruises and seen those who seem to have a "beep beep get out of my way" mentality and that's not right either.

 

So while those of us fortunate to be able to walk wherever we want should be mindful and aware of those who can't and try to make their lives easier by making way, at the same time the 'drivers' of the scooters should not feel they have the right to mow everyone down. They're not bump 'em cars.

[LH25]

As to the issue of obese people using scooters or power chairs, my old math professor cautioned against using correlation to imply cause and effect. Every researcher today has to take a second and third look when seeing a high correlation between two events, NOT to jump to the conclusion that there is a cause and effect relationship.

 

I've been reading this thread with a thought in the back of my mind, and you sort of hit on it.

 

What I wonder is why it matters if someone is in a scooter because they are obese, that their weight caused the mobility issues? Should they be punished for that by not being allowed to use their scooter in places other people are? If so, would that also apply to people with lung issues from smoking? Or those who did extreme sports when they were younger and now have joint issues.

 

Why does the reason someone has mobility issues matter for a discussion like this is what I guess I'm asking.

[peaches from georgia]

Why does the reason someone has mobility issues matter for a discussion like this is what I guess I'm asking.

PUHLEEZE, folks, let's not turn this into another smoking thread!!! I can see it coming. :eek:

[Cruising-along]

Of course scooters should not be banned and I doubt that will ever happen. I think it's wonderful (and essential) that disabled persons have a chance to enjoy travel, as it should be! I've never had a problem on any cruise with anyone driving a scooter.

 

That said, I do have one suggestion -- if you are using a scooter, please, please look behind you before you back up. When I've been in a grocery store I have had to jump out of the way too many times to count because of someone backing up and never looking. :eek:

[tcook052]

Of course scooters should not be banned, but they should only be used by those who absolutely need them. And they are available to give those who need them equal access, not priority access. All too frequently I've been on cruises and seen those who seem to have a "beep beep get out of my way" mentality and that's not right either.

 

So while those of us fortunate to be able to walk wherever we want should be mindful and aware of those who can't and try to make their lives easier by making way, at the same time the 'drivers' of the scooters should not feel they have the right to mow everyone down. They're not bump 'em cars.

 

Amen! Mirrors how I feel on the subject.

 

Maybe one day cruise ship designers will take these scooters more into account when building elevators and public areas to avoid possible bottlenecks.

[Se4deb]

Perhaps it would be helpful to the general public if people who use scooters wore a big sign that said, "Heart Problems" "Lung Problems" "One leg shorter than the other" "Gout" "MS" "Stroke victim" etc., so the less understanding members of the population wouldn't make snap judgments about those people that need assistance getting on a plane but manage to walk off with ease. Perhaps after the long walk through the airport they are not as agile as they are after sitting on a plane for 2 hours. My bet is that almost anyone that needs assistance on or off a plane or in any other situation probably would gladly accept one of those miracles and be "normal" again.

[Homosassa]

Did you ever think that maybe she couldn't get out of the scooter to GO GET THE KEY? How would you like it if the next time you cut someone off in traffic or drove too slowly or too fast, someone just took the keys out of your car and said to go pick them up at the police station downtown? You are stuck, you can't move your car and now you have to find a way to the police station. That is probably what happened to that lady you found so annoying because she bumped you. Did you ever consider that maybe you stepped in front of her and she couldn't stop the scooter in time? They don't always have the quickest braking systems. Or maybe she had a disability that made her reflexes slower than yours. Your behavior was worse than hers. It's not something to be proud of.

 

I guess you missed the part about I was waiting in line to enter the theater. She had already bulldozed other people out of the way and was trying to force me out of the way also. As I also noted, she was getting a reputation for this type of behavior and there was sotto voice comments by others as she repeatedly behaved this way over the course of the first few days of the cruise. She obviously was depending on her age and handicap to protect her from the consequences of her actions as no one would tolerate this behavior from a young able body person.

 

A bully is a bully is a bully, whether they are in a scooter or able bodied. I refused to be bullied by her and was brave enough to stand up to her. I received thumbs up from several cruisers as I walked by on my way to turn in the key.

 

You must have also missed the part where her behavior improved after that episode so I doubt she had slow reflexes.

 

I would repeat that behavior again in a heartbeat if the situation warranted it.

[HeatherInFlorida]

................

That said, I do have one suggestion -- if you are using a scooter, please, please look behind you before you back up. When I've been in a grocery store I have had to jump out of the way too many times to count because of someone backing up and never looking. :eek:

 

This goes to my issue of "equal" vs. "priority". It can be a huge problem. I have no idea why people back up without looking assuming I will hear the warning sound and get out of their way.

 

As a courtesy I stand aside when a scooter or wheelchair is making it's way through a narrow area. Sometimes they wait to let me pass, sometimes I do ... generally depending who's on the right or left or who arrived at the bottleneck first. It's just polite.

 

And most people using mobility devices are polite recognizing that it works both ways. But everyone knows, whether they admit it here or not, that it is the few rude 'riders' who create the kind of criticism we see here. It's unfortunate that (as someone mentioned) people who are rude when they're able to walk will be rude when they no longer can.

[xxoocruiser]

That said, I do have one suggestion -- if you are using a scooter, please, please look behind you before you back up. When I've been in a grocery store I have had to jump out of the way too many times to count because of someone backing up and never looking. :eek:

 

The same can be said of able bodied people who blindfully walk infront a scooter. The problem goes both ways.

[Cruising-along]

The same can be said of able bodied people who blindfully walk infront a scooter. The problem goes both ways.

 

Of course! And the same can be said of able bodied people who walk in front of anyone with a heavy, loaded cart in a store. It happens all the time, people just don't think before moving. Those heavy loaded carts don't stop on a dime either. :rolleyes:

 

But I would think that the extra effort it takes to back up a scooter doesn't give much of an excuse, it takes more time and thought (I would hope) to back up the scooter. By the time the warning sounds, they're already moving. I can jump fast, but I've had some close calls. :)

[3rdGenCunarder]

Of course! And the same can be said of able bodied people who walk in front of anyone with a heavy, loaded cart in a store. It happens all the time, people just don't think before moving. Those heavy loaded carts don't stop on a dime either. :rolleyes:

 

But I would think that the extra effort it takes to back up a scooter doesn't give much of an excuse, it takes more time and thought (I would hope) to back up the scooter. By the time the warning sounds, they're already moving. I can jump fast, but I've had some close calls. :)

 

Compounding the problem is that people who aren't around scooter users may not be aware of what the sound means. They hear the unfamiliar sound, look around to see where it's coming from, and THEN they connect the sound to the scooter. That takes time, and if the scooter is moving as soon as it goes into reverse, the person may not have time to get out of the way.