Questions I have about the Concordia dissaster, do you know?

[Jolimont]

If you've read the answers to any of these questions in the press or if you know, I'd love to hear!

 

Why were they navigating from maps and not the most amazing electronic instruments they have on board? On our Behind the Fun tour last summer on the Carnival Magic the captain told us they have the maps but only use them for reference, the electronics are much more reliable and fast.

 

Why didn't they call a mayday within minutes of hitting? Why didn't they start evacuation within minutes of hitting? What could possibly be gained by waiting? You're taking water, some of your diesel generators are not producing any more power, game over, evacuate!

 

Why did the captain move the ship closer to land instead of evacuating right where he was?

By the time the ship got closer to land, it was listing so bad half of the life boats were under water!

 

Why did the captain and command crew abandon the vessel while cabin and kitchen crew stayed? What is wrong with these people?

 

Anyway, I'm just dumbfounded this could happen to any cruise ship and I feel really bad for the passengers and crew on board.

[Lionesss]

I too am overwhelmed and trying to figure out the answers to the questions.

I can only imagine the fear, the helplessness, especially for those with mobility issues.

My prayers to everyone involved.

[RobKabob]

If you've read the answers to any of these questions in the press or if you know, I'd love to hear!

 

Why were they navigating from maps and not the most amazing electronic instruments they have on board?

 

Other posts on the board were also asking why the crew may have navigated the ship between a narrow passage between two rock formations at the southern side of Giglio Port. A Turkish maritime blog asks this question.

 

www.seanews.com.tr/.../Costa-Concordia-accident-navigational-error/

 

The rocks do not appear to be on the google map of Giglio but show on the satellite image. (Zoom in)

[dot73]

There is a lot of information out there right now most of which is pure speculation. I don't think we will know what really happened until a full investigation is completed. The media and bloggers are not helping things by speculating and pretending they are experts. Let's let the real "experts" tell us what really happened.

[Jolimont]

The Seanews article is amazing, thanks for the link RobKabob. Can autopilot really go that wrong? Italian officers on home turf, good weather, how did they not see they were going off course?!!!

[G.M.T.]

If you've read the answers to any of these questions in the press or if you know, I'd love to hear!

 

Why were they navigating from maps and not the most amazing electronic instruments they have on board? On our Behind the Fun tour last summer on the Carnival Magic the captain told us they have the maps but only use them for reference, the electronics are much more reliable and fast.

 

Maps are still used not only for reference but for backup procedures.

 

Electonic gadgets are fine, so long as the ship has power, or what if teh GPS goes down.

 

The course of the ship is normally plotted on a map and the information entered into the auto pilot.

 

Do you follow your car's navigation instructions impilicitly?

 

Ron

[Jolimont]

Do you follow your car's navigation instructions impilicitly?

No Ron, I do not. If I am lost and the GPS isn't helping I pull over and figure it out with a map, or call someone who knows. I PULL OVER FIRST. This ship just kept going. Granted, a ship is much much harder to stop than a car, but it's not clear the bridge even tried to stop the ship. I'm quite sure if I were somewhere I don't know stirring a ship and there was the slightest question, I'd stop the ship as soon as possible.

[jcl410]

If you've read the answers to any of these questions in the press or if you know, I'd love to hear!

 

Why were they navigating from maps and not the most amazing electronic instruments they have on board? On our Behind the Fun tour last summer on the Carnival Magic the captain told us they have the maps but only use them for reference, the electronics are much more reliable and fast.

Ships use all available navigation information, including radar, depth sounders, visual sightings, as well as electronic and paper charts. Underwater outcroppings, like the Captain mentioned, would only show up on a chart.

 

Why didn't they call a mayday within minutes of hitting? Why didn't they start evacuation within minutes of hitting? What could possibly be gained by waiting? You're taking water, some of your diesel generators are not producing any more power, game over, evacuate!

 

It's still unclear (to me at least)whether there was 1 or 2 groundings. If there was only one, it presumably occurred very close to where she is now; nor is it clear yet exactly when 1) the grounding(s) occured, or 2) when the Mayday went out.

 

Why did the captain move the ship closer to land instead of evacuating right where he was?

By the time the ship got closer to land, it was listing so bad half of the life boats were under water!

 

See above

 

Why did the captain and command crew abandon the vessel while cabin and kitchen crew stayed? What is wrong with these people?

 

It's not at all clear that this is what transpired.

Anyway, I'm just dumbfounded this could happen to any cruise ship and I feel really bad for the passengers and crew on board.

 

 

It will take quite a while for the whore story to come out. Let's let the Italians investigate a while and see what they come up with.

 

Aloha,

 

John

[alwayshappytocruise]

The Seanews article is amazing, thanks for the link RobKabob. Can autopilot really go that wrong? Italian officers on home turf, good weather, how did they not see they were going off course?!!!

 

 

I agree, it doesn't make any sense. On the other hand, we are hearing from some pax and we know the crew/staff/officers won't be allowed to speak to the media (not that I think the media really gets it right).

 

I think the strange and disconcerting factor for me is that Costa has a ship running this itinerary on a regular basis. I can't remember the number of the post on this thread but there was something about a "Sentimental Sail Bye" for the people on the island of Giglio. Evidently there is a previous Costa Captain living on that island which also serves as a "heart" for many of the Italian crew/officers.

 

Lynda

[Msbelinda]

Does anyone eknow how fast the ship went over on its' side?

[Fury1995]

In most cases that have been investigated, like an airplane being off course, the results were the aircraft was off course because the pilot/crew did not know it was off course. I cannot imagine the bridge crew were aware the ship was not on the correct course/heading.... unless it was intentional. That said, it can only be intentional (human error) or mechanical failure of some type, correct?

[writer100]

If you've read the answers to any of these questions in the press or if you know, I'd love to hear!

 

Why were they navigating from maps and not the most amazing electronic instruments they have on board? On our Behind the Fun tour last summer on the Carnival Magic the captain told us they have the maps but only use them for reference, the electronics are much more reliable and fast.

 

Why didn't they call a mayday within minutes of hitting? Why didn't they start evacuation within minutes of hitting? What could possibly be gained by waiting? You're taking water, some of your diesel generators are not producing any more power, game over, evacuate!

 

Why did the captain move the ship closer to land instead of evacuating right where he was?

By the time the ship got closer to land, it was listing so bad half of the life boats were under water!

 

Why did the captain and command crew abandon the vessel while cabin and kitchen crew stayed? What is wrong with these people?

 

Anyway, I'm just dumbfounded this could happen to any cruise ship and I feel really bad for the passengers and crew on board.

Obviously there are no answers as yet. But here are some surmises, which are purely that. The delay in issuing a Mayday can be because it wasn't clear as to the severity of the ship's damage. But also, when you issue a Mayday, you are asking for help, and the rules of salvage apply. Which is to say that even if the damage is slight, the owner's will have to comply with the salvage rules which allow the first ship onsite to collect a "reward."At least I think the foregoing is true. But if you know someone skilled in barratry--the laws of the sea--you can ask. Another reason for the delay in the Mayday may be simply that the captain hoped to beach the ship on the nearby island, which would have made passenger evacuation and ship salvage much easier. I have no answer for why they were so far off course--estimates vary

between 2.5 and 4 miles in the stories I've read. As to electronics versus map and dividers, I don't know. Ships that retrace the same course over and over can have that course plotted and stored in their on-board electronic memory. That doesn't mean that yo completely surrender to auto pilot; you check that listed course periodically both electronically and on a chart. Ships' masters are trained to be suspicious about their position at sea and verify regularly. Sorry, I know this raises more questions than it answers.

[ehfl]

We'll have to wait for the investigation to find the answer to many of these questions.

 

Since the ship was close to shallow water, there was some sense in trying to ground it to prevent sinking. This is a common practice for boats and ships of all sizes.

 

It's most likely that the bridge crew was not immediately aware of the scale of the breech. It seems they thought they had plenty of time available. When a sudden, unexpected situation happens, it's not always clear to everyone in charge what's going on. It's possible that the people in the best position to report the severity of the problem were dead or incapacitated by the accident.

 

Hopefully, all cruise lines will use this as an opportunity to update their practices. It seems one of the biggest problem was communication, and some of the crew did not know if the people should get on the lifeboat or not.

 

Once an abandoned ship alarm is issued, especially in calm seas, the crew should get the passengers off. Period. It should not matter if they have conflicting information. If the seas are calm, there is little danger in getting people in lifeboats. They can always be recalled later if the situation stabilizes. In rough seas, it's a different matter as people are likely to be injured and it's possible that an abandon ship order might be reassessed. However, practices in calm seas should be abandon ship means abandon ship.

[Laughing Angel]

As others have stated here, all the facts are not yet in, so there are no firm conclusions to be drawn or answers to be given.

 

Looks like this will be a true forensic examination (and possibly a criminal investigation, now that the captain of the ship has been arrested). Until they start piecing together the events leading up to and following the sinking, there will be no useful answers about why and how.

 

I'll be keeping the passengers, crewmembers, and rescue and recovery workers in prayer during this very difficult and scary time.

[olaffub57]

just looking at a picture of the port side, the port stabilizer in front of the damage is deployed and undamaged, was the ship in a hard port turn at the time of impact?

[Jolimont]

John,

 

I suppose if the sea just grew that rock in the last few months (there are active volcanos not too far) and it's one of those freakish things that just pop right up from the bottom with no warning, then OK. But if it's been there a while, why hasn't it been charted? Those cruise ships use well-known sailing lanes don't they?

[Ultima Thule]

Why were they navigating from maps and not the most amazing electronic instruments they have on board? On our Behind the Fun tour last summer on the Carnival Magic the captain told us they have the maps but only use them for reference, the electronics are much more reliable and fast.

 

I have read that crew claim the reef was missing on the map. Now, maps are maps, regardless if they are electronic or on paper. If a reef is missing it is missing in both cases.

 

But if http://www.seanews.com.tr/ indeed is correct about the way they took then there might have been some serious navigation error. Such things Do happen. Remember Korean Air Lines Flight 007 that almost started the Third World War after the crew forgot to put the auto pilot in correct mode after the start whereafter the plane flew in over Russia.

 

I would also like to pay attention to

 

MS Sea Diamond that sunk after strucking an incorrectly marked reef

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Sea_Diamond

 

and to MS Express Samina where the crew according to rumors put the ship on autopilot and then went to watch a football game on TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Express_Samina

 

Why didn't they call a mayday within minutes of hitting? Why didn't they start evacuation within minutes of hitting? What could possibly be gained by waiting? You're taking water, some of your diesel generators are not producing any more power, game over, evacuate!

 

This is not a Navy ship where damage reports can be obtained immediately. It takes time to find the correct people, collect the information and do an evaluation. Looking at huge damage one can speculate that there might have been total chaos in the engine rooms/ controls.

 

Why did the captain move the ship closer to land instead of evacuating right where he was?

By the time the ship got closer to land, it was listing so bad half of the life boats were under water!

 

Its a known fact that it is almost impossible to evacuate a huge ship in a short time. In this case a record 4200 persons had to be sorted out. By putting the ship so close to land that it did not sink might in fact have saved thousands of lives.

 

Why did the captain and command crew abandon the vessel while cabin and kitchen crew stayed? What is wrong with these people?

 

That is unconfirmed at the time. However, such things are not unheared of. For example, the sad case of Scandinavian Star:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Scandinavian_Star

[Lard Greystoke]

John,

 

I suppose if the sea just grew that rock in the last few months (there are active volcanos not too far) and it's one of those freakish things that just pop right up from the bottom with no warning, then OK. But if it's been there a while, why hasn't it been charted? Those cruise ships use well-known sailing lanes don't they?

 

The ship was certainly not in a sailing lane at the time of the crash. The captain's statement that he was in navigable waters and that the rock was not on the chart is at best debatable. Both the captain's behavior and his excuses deserve the highest level of skepticism.

[tofubeast]

I am confused. I read that they moved the ship closer to shore, yet when you look at the picture of the impact scene, there is a huge rock. It looks as though that is the rock that caused the damage.

 

Such a sad, sad situation. I really hope that safety precautions are beefed up and there are more cross the line regulations. I keep reading in other places former cruise employees (of other unnamed lines) saying that what they have heard happened on this cruise was not what they were taught on the cruise lines they worked for. Of course, that might be true, but then again, who knows how anyone will react when faced with a true emergency as opposed to a mock emergency protocol test.

[oceanseagle12]

Obviously there are no answers as yet. But here are some surmises, which are purely that. The delay in issuing a Mayday can be because it wasn't clear as to the severity of the ship's damage. But also, when you issue a Mayday, you are asking for help, and the rules of salvage apply. Which is to say that even if the damage is slight, the owner's will have to comply with the salvage rules which allow the first ship onsite to collect a "reward."At least I think the foregoing is true. But if you know someone skilled in barratry--the laws of the sea--you can ask. Another reason for the delay in the Mayday may be simply that the captain hoped to beach the ship on the nearby island, which would have made passenger evacuation and ship salvage much easier. I have no answer for why they were so far off course--estimates vary

between 2.5 and 4 miles in the stories I've read. As to electronics versus map and dividers, I don't know. Ships that retrace the same course over and over can have that course plotted and stored in their on-board electronic memory. That doesn't mean that yo completely surrender to auto pilot; you check that listed course periodically both electronically and on a chart. Ships' masters are trained to be suspicious about their position at sea and verify regularly. Sorry, I know this raises more questions than it answers.

 

I'm no expert, but from what I understand, I don't think that would apply in this situation. That rule relates to assistance for saving property, i.e. a vessel. So perhaps it would apply if there was something that other vessels could have done to save the ship. That doesn't seem likely, and the real purpose of a mayday in this situation would have been for the coast guard and other vessels to assist with the evacuation/rescue of passengers.

 

That isn't done for compensation, nor expectation of anything in return- except that when you issue a mayday, you would hope others would respond to your aid.

 

I've been lurking, and just thought I would jump in. OP- all very good questions, for which there doesn't appear to be good answers at this point. What a tragic, scary situation!

[paml]

What happened to all the passengers in wheelchairs? Were they rescued? When I heard about 2 elderly men dying, I wondered if they were in wheelchairs. I remember our last cruise with our son, in a wheelchair, dureng the muster drill the staff didn't know where he should go. I had to find out and have our own plan. I am getting ready next month to cruise again. I have never been on Costa, don't think I will try now. We took the Med cruise in 2010 on Princess. We were cruising by the area in daylight.

 

My prayers are with them all!

[Cantfindausablename]

That is what blew me away as well was that the majority if not all of Carnival's captains come from Italy. I imagine that applies for Costa as well. Then at the same time I'm more likely to something stupid close to home.

[paml]

sorry delay in posting... didn't think it took