Hole on Port side, capsized to Starboard?

[Esprit]

So the ship did a drop anchor pirouette? And when the ship was turned the right direction they let the chain run out? A port side drop, ship swings back end to the right? Full port direction bow thruster, full starboard direction stern thruster?

 

As I've said elsewhere, had the anchor not been dropped and the ship swung back into shallow waters many more lives may have been lost.

 

Staying on board the ship for as long as possible is considered by many seamen the preferred option to launching life boats and abandoning a floating or beached ship.

[Highlander0108]

To perform any change in direction, I suspect that they had to use their thrusters. I cannot buy that the ship did a complete 180 jsut by dropping the anchor and having it get hung up. So, if thrusters were used, does this mean that there was power available from the second engine room or can the energency generator power be directed to thrusters?

[captainmcd]

Dropping an anchor will turn a ship assuming that she has headway, with or without assistance from thrusters. Emergency generators are usually not of large enough capacity to provide propulsion, even for thrusters, but I don't know if one or more of the ship's service generators were still on line and working. There are so many unanswered questions that I am sure will come out in investigations, and the Voyage Data Recorder, if working properly will make the investigation a lot easier.

[sidari]

The ship was well lit when it had stopped and that is proved by the numerous photos of it so it must have had some power in order for it to get back to the island, had it turned to Port it would have hit the island and so it must have turned to Starboard in order to get back to where it is now.

 

It is possible that had the ship stopped in open deeper water that many more lives could have been lost and likely that it would have eventually sunk totaly.

[captainmcd]

After an anchor is dropped the ship and headway ceases, the ship will tend to lay into the current and or wind, and a cruise ship with lots of sail area will lay into the wind, but it depends on the velocity of the current or wind. But aparently the anchor was dropped in relatively shallow water, not much deeper than the bottom of the ship. It appears that the ship came to rest on the rocky, uneven bottom, but on her starboard side, the side away from the damage. That is counter-intuative, and must have been caused by either the free-surface "sloshing" effect of the water in a partially flooded transverse compartment rushing to the starboard side. Alternatively, a starboard side ballast tank could have been flooded in order to correct the original port list, and that would have been a mistake unless the port list was caused by a flooded ballast tank on the port side.

[OldSeaDog]

I have come to believe that the initial list to port was caused by the turn to starboard plus flooding and slight wind. The engine room/generator room flooded in mere seconds leaving no "free surface." From the point power went out, the ship was not under power. Ever. It drifted forward until momentum from inertia ceased, then due to slight wind was turned and pushed sideways back to the island and ultimately onto the bottom. Once the ship turned, the wind force on the superstructure healed the vessel to starboard. The catastrophic list and capsize occurred when the starboard aft and midships struck the rocky island causing more damage and flooding in previously un-flooded compartments. That secondary flooding caused the capsize.

[captainmcd]

OldSeaDog, that is a possibility, and in which case she should be pretty hard aground and not as likely to slide off her grounded position and into deeper water. However I am not sure how much damage she would have sustained by her secondary grounding when her speed was only a knot or two. I think we will have a much better picture of what happened fairly soon.

[mavis2222]

It dosent matter which cabin you have. As you noticed, allot of of the "more expensive" balconys ended up under water on the higher decks. Anyhow.. Use COMMON SENSE.. When you CANNOT stand easyly and finding yourself being forced to the bulkheads (walls for you landlovers) and it dosent recover (like its going to capsize), get your butt out of your cabin and up to the top decks outside to prevent getting trapped in case things get worse. And DONT use elevators to do it...

[Zyzygy]

The video linked below shows that the Concordia listed violently from one side to the other at least six times. It looks as though she were sloshing in a bathtub.

 

Link:

[Highlander0108]

The video linked below shows that the Concordia listed violently from one side to the other at least six times. It looks as though she were sloshing in a bathtub.

 

Link:

 

This is old video and not the Concordia and has been flagged incorrectly.

[Zyzygy]

This is old video and not the Concordia and has been flagged incorrectly.

 

Thank you for the correction. I'm sorry to have posted incorrect information. I relied on the YouTube caption.

[Germancruiser]

I also fell for the wrong video- I wondered who it would have rocked like this. Ah those busybodies should keep their mouths shut. Putting wrong videos and label them Concordia - Videos.

[Highlander0108]

Thank you for the correction. I'm sorry to have posted incorrect information. I relied on the YouTube caption.

 

Not your fault and not the only one. CNN incorrectly referenced this video the other night, then eventually corrected their report. Can YouTube pull this since it's incorrect?

[QM1]

To perform any change in direction, I suspect that they had to use their thrusters. I cannot buy that the ship did a complete 180 jsut by dropping the anchor and having it get hung up. So, if thrusters were used, does this mean that there was power available from the second engine room or can the energency generator power be directed to thrusters?

 

Or maybe the ship would have simply stayed afloat with a 20 degree list.

[baldercash]

This link gives clear explination of what happened in the last moments.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/graphic-the-final-moments-of-the-costa-concordia/

[luckybogey]

Note damage to stabilizer. Can anyone explain how the stabilizer is used on the Concordia? Is this automatically or gyroscope controlled? Did the damage shown affect the ships stability?

 

[luckybogey]

This link gives clear explination of what happened in the last moments.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/20/graphic-the-final-moments-of-the-costa-concordia/

 

The graphic assumes that the Concordia has use of its rudder and power to all thrusters. The graphic also assumes the final capsize is due to water filling from the starboard side after the final grounding. Without VDR data, this graphic is pure speculation.

[captainmcd]

The gyro fin stabilizers only dampen rolling when at speeds greater than the five knots shown after the initial grounding. Normally they are retracted when entering port or near shallow water. It seems the engineers were able to maintain at least one ship's service generator until close to the end, even though flooding must have been a problem. As luckybogey says, the VDR should give investigators an accurate picture of what happened.

[luckybogey]

Weather for Monte Argentario, Italy Friday, January 13, 2012

 

Time Temp. Windchill Dew Point Humidity Pressure Visibility Wind Dir Wind Speed

7:00 PM 45 °F - 42 °F 85% in 19 mi ENE 17.3 mph - -

7:55 PM 44.6 °F 36.6 °F 44.6 °F 100% 29.98 in - ENE 19.6 mph

8:55 PM 44.6 °F 36.4 °F 42.8 °F 93% 29.98 in - ENE 20.7 mph

9:55 PM 44.6 °F 36.1 °F 42.8 °F 93% 29.98 in - ENE 21.9 mph

10:00 PM 44 °F - 43 °F 93% in 19 mi ENE 21.9 mph - -

10:55 PM 42.8 °F 33.5 °F 41.0 °F 93% 29.98 in - ENE 23.0 mph

11:55 PM 42.8 °F 33.5 °F 39.2 °F 87% 29.98 in - ENE 23.0 mph

 

http://www.wunderground.com/history/station/16168/2012/1/13/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[luckybogey]

If I'm reading this correctly, the VDR had been turned off the last 15 days?

 

English Translation

 

The black box turned off

Costa is so present that night, that Ferrarini reminds Schettino, before leaving the ship, to make a final, crucial, duty: " told me to push the button of the Voice data recorder (black box), to download the navigation data of the last 12 hours and make it so available and I said to my second Roberto Bosio do ". Unfortunately, c l ' ' is yet another problem. To pm: says Schettino " I want to be honest with you, to the bottom. On board we had the problem that by 15 days had broken the back-up system and we did request Vdr to inspector ' to fix it. But was not successful. Bosio, in fact, once ashore, he said to me, I have " Commander pushed the button, but the system was all off ". Therefore? The black box " " soon to be opened will be an empty " object "? Schettino, at least on this point reassures: on the upper " of the vessel c ' is the voyage data recorder, which records whatever ". Travel data, certainly. But entries in the dashboard? We'll see. Yesterday, Police divers, with the Commander safe, have recovered the ' hard disk of the first section of the black box and the memo-closed circuit cameras found in the median part of the ship's bridge. Still missing, the " Voyage data recorder ", what definitely worked.

 

La scatola nera spenta

Costa è così presente quella notte, che Ferrarini ricorda a Schettino, prima di abbandonare la nave, di compiere un ultimo, cruciale, dovere: "Mi disse di spingere il bottone del Voice data recorder (la scatola nera), per scaricare i dati di navigazione delle ultime 12 ore e renderli così consultabili e io dissi al mio secondo Roberto Bosio di farlo". Purtroppo, però, c'è l'ennesimo problema. Dice Schettino ai pm: "Io voglio essere onesto con voi, fino in fondo. A bordo avevamo il problema che da 15 giorni si era rotto il back-up del sistema Vdr e avevamo fatto richiesta all'ispettore di aggiustarlo. Ma non era successo. Bosio, infatti, una volta a terra, mi disse: "Comandante, io ho spinto quel pulsante, ma il sistema era tutto spento". Dunque? La "scatola nera" che sarà presto aperta sarà un oggetto "vuoto"? Schettino, almeno su questo punto rassicura: "Sulla parte più alta della nave c'è il voyage data recorder, che comunque registra a prescindere". I dati di viaggio, certamente. Ma le voci in plancia? Staremo a vedere. Ieri, i subacquei dei carabinieri, con la cassaforte del comandante, hanno recuperato l'hard disk della prima sezione della scatola nera e la memo-centralina delle videocamere a circuito chiuso trovati nella parte mediana della plancia della nave. Manca ancora, proprio il "Voyage data recorder", quello che sicuramente funzionava.

 

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/22/news/costa_inchino-28555394/

 

The VDR typically records the following:

 

Speed log – Speed through water or speed over ground.

Gyro compass – Heading.

Radar – As displayed or AIS data if no off-the-shelf converter available for the Radar video.

Audio from the bridge, including bridge wings.

VHF radio communications.

Echo sounder – Depth under keel.

Main alarms – All IMO mandatory alarms.

Hull openings – Status of hull doors as indicated on the bridge.

Watertight & fire doors status as indicated on the bridge.

Hull stress – Accelerations and hull stresses. <Rudder – Order and feedback response.

Engine/Propeller – Order and feedback response.

Thrusters* – Status, direction, amount of thrust % or RPM. Anemometer and weather vane – Wind speed and direction

 

The SAM Electronics VDR 4350 may be the model on board. (Not Confirmed)

 

http://www.sam-electronics.de/dateien/navigation/broschueren/3.055.pdf

[captainmcd]

It is hard to understand the translation, it seems that the back-up was not functioning, but that does not mean that the data was not recorded on the hard drive. I know that we are not allowed to sail unless we get all green lights on the VDR imputs, so if they sailed without a functioning VDR their insurance company would probably be off the hook for about 500 million!

[luckybogey]

It is hard to understand the translation, it seems that the back-up was not functioning, but that does not mean that the data was not recorded on the hard drive. I know that we are not allowed to sail unless we get all green lights on the VDR imputs, so if they sailed without a functioning VDR their insurance company would probably be off the hook for about 500 million!

 

Captain: I posted the below on the other large Concordia thread. My read here is that is the VDR recorded only "data" and the "communications" between the officers was not working. There is apparently mention of the Prosecutor's allegation of VDR tampering in the Court Magistrate's decision as well as the missing of the Captain's notebook. Getting interesting...

 

English Translation

 

The ' investigation. On the front of the investigations, as the details emerge on Commander Francis Scehttino said to gip di Grosseto during the interrogation of ' guarantee. Starting with the fact that, in his opinion, by two weeks the black box was no longer able to record communications between officers. Second Schettino, who would have to resolve the problem had been informed, but was not successful. If the statements made by the Commander of the Costa Concordia were true, the black box would be useful only to reconstruct the data. According to rumors, the pm of Grosseto are also looking for the laptop that Schettino led off the ship and entrusted to a blonde girl. When the computer has not yet been recovered, but prosecutors have identified the woman. According to what they have learned the woman would be a lawyer, although it is not clear whether Costa Cruises or a freelancer, whose relations with stakeholders are yet to be shown. Prosecutors want to examine your pc because, considering the haste with which it was ' changed hands ' speculate that may contain important data. By ' crew Meanwhile arrives a declaration in favour of Schettino by Katia Keyvanian, head of the Costa Concordia customer service: " I saw the Commander before me to 23:45 while he was helping passengers to climb into lifeboats on deck 3 bow ", said the ' used.

 

L'inchiesta. Sul fronte delle indagini, emergono particolari su quanto il comandante Francesco Scehttino ha dichiarato al gip di Grosseto durante l'interrogatorio di garanzia. A cominciare dal fatto che, a suo dire, da due settimane la scatola nera non era più in grado di registrare le comunicazioni tra gli ufficiali. Secondo Schettino, chi avrebbe dovuto risolvere il problema era stato informato, ma non era successo niente. Se quanto affermato dal comandante della Costa Concordia fosse vero, la scatola nera sarebbe utile solo per ricostruire i dati di viaggio. Stando alle indiscrezioni, i pm di Grosseto stanno inoltre cercando il pc portatile che Schettino portò fuori dalla nave e che affidò a una ragazza bionda. Al momento il computer non è stato ancora recuperato, ma i pm hanno identificato la donna. Secondo quanto appreso la donna sarebbe un avvocato, anche se non è chiaro se della Costa Crociere oppure se un libero professionista, i cui rapporti con le parti in causa sono ancora da appurare. I pm vogliono esaminare il pc anche perchè, considerando la fretta con cui è stato 'passato di mano' ipotizzano che possa contenere dati importanti.

Dall'equipaggio arriva intanto una dichiarazione a favore di Schettino da Katia Keyvanian, responsabile del servizio clienti della Costa Concordia: "Ho visto il comandante davanti a me alle 23:45 mentre stava aiutando alcuni passeggeri a salire sulle scialuppe di salvataggio sul ponte 3 a prua", ha dichiarato l'impiegata.

 

http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/201...naio-28562859/

[luckybogey]

"...he ordered to drop the anchors and the ship, progressively increasing the tilt starboard, ran aground..."

"...the flow of water into five compartments of the ship's engine room..."

"...In the aforesaid situation the captain lost control of the ship, which had its engines off and shifted position only by means of inertia and the rudders..."

The court document (below) is signed by Dr Valeria Montesarchio, the Magistrate in charge of Preliminary Inquiries for the Court of Grosseto. Translation by La Repubblica.

--

No. 12/285 N.R. and No. 12/117 Magistrate in Charge of Preliminary Inquiries

 

"'...Coming to the danger of tampering with evidence, it must be pointed out that what was initially highlighted by the Public Prosecutor with regard to the presumed intention of the captain somehow to remove the ship's Voyage Data Recorder (VDR), it is belied on record by Document 170, PG annotation of Capt. De Falco, which specifies the possible misunderstanding of a piece of information given on that point. Capt. De Falco states that "following the contact that took place between the person in charge of the Company, Mr Paolo Mattesi present in the operations room and Capt. Schettino, it was decided to send another person, subsequently identified as Officer Martino Pellegrini, since the captain did not appear to be lucid."...]

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/284454/20120119/francesco-schettino-costa-concordia-transcript-captain-court.htm

 

Harbour Master's Log

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9030216/Costa-Concordia-Harbour-masters-log-shows-how-the-disaster-unfolded.html

[captainmcd]

Luckybogey, Thanks for the information. Another friend of mine sent me the following powerpoint about the AIS track of the Concordia. According to the naration, only the inertia, rudder, and finally the bow thruster (which takes a lot of power) were used to turn the ship back south, and it seems like the wind set her up onto her final resting place.

http://gcaptain.com/gcaptains-john-konrad-narrates-the-final-maneuvers-of-the-costa-concordia-video/?37941

[vanki4]

Luckybogey, Thanks for the information. Another friend of mine sent me the following powerpoint about the AIS track of the Concordia. According to the naration, only the inertia, rudder, and finally the bow thruster (which takes a lot of power) were used to turn the ship back south, and it seems like the wind set her up onto her final resting place.

http://gcaptain.com/gcaptains-john-konrad-narrates-the-final-maneuvers-of-the-costa-concordia-video/?37941

 

Thanks for the link and also a credit for the sensible points shared by a different members.

 

Still not able to understand another info about the Engine room flooded compartments . The amount is shocking.