QE II norovirus?

[balf]

The majority of those I've seen not washing are not foreign but ELDERLY.

 

 

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So they are elderly Canadians then?

 

David.

[AstroExeter]

Yeah, not the best term.Sorry.We're all foreign to someone. We'll just say from Europe & I don't mean England.

 

Oh you mean Scottish, Irish or Welsh then? Perhaps you should stop digging now.

 

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[gentlemancruiser]

As of the noon time announcement from the captain there was only one new case report to the ship after sail away from St Thomas which I believe now means there a just 4 cases onboard right now.

 

The crew are doing an incredible job of keeping the ship clean and serving the everyone. it has started to become a problem and it is beginning to show!! Extra staff are needed for the King's Court, but the Princess Grill staff in our section of the dining room were run off their feet at lunchtime because many were assigned duties elsewhere. Eventually they were called back to PG to help out.

 

We are enjoying a lovely day at sea!

 

 

Happy New Year from Queen Mary 2

 

 

 

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[lannp]

CTV News in Toronto had a report last evening. The QM2 was mentioned but they also spoke about other ships and said that this year there had been 16 ships affected.

[Jim Avery]

Thank You Salacia, I read the article a couple of days ago when you first provided the link and I was waiting for my family member to answer the question : is this a new virus or is it just that it was identified in the 70's because new microscopes were being used? I note that Zahorsky described gastroenteritis in 1929, but I am sure any lay person could have described it in their own words, in previous centuries, but he was the person who documented it. This is my understanding.

Thank you again for your always interesting posts.

Kendall.

 

So, could it be possibly related to the way modern ships are "ventilated"?? In the past, ships used large scoops or funnels to force fresh outside air below decks for ventilation. Current ships are basically sealed against the outside except a few deck accesses and/or balcony cabins. Just speculating.

[Sea Tiger]

So, could it be possibly related to the way modern ships are "ventilated"?? In the past, ships used large scoops or funnels to force fresh outside air below decks for ventilation. Current ships are basically sealed against the outside except a few deck accesses and/or balcony cabins. Just speculating.

I think it is not ships in particular, but ships, like other places where you have people together in close quarters are viable places for "illnesses" to breed. The ventilation system is something to think about, probably the same as flying, or being in the cinema breathing in everybody elses' waste.

I think it comes back to numbers : Were there less outbreaks of "stomach 'flu' " years ago? Is it because we are all travelling more and spreading these viruses more quickly? Is it because some illnesses are cyclical?

Unfortunately, some British newspapers have latched onto this

gastroenteritis as being a cruise ship illness, and if they can add that it is a luxury cruise ship it adds to the interest, especially when they exaggerate how much the minimum cost is. The press have quoted CC this week, so they have no magical access to Cunard PR.

Anyway, we all love travelling and need to keep active and healthy for our next wonderful journey.

Happy New Year to you all.

[Jim Avery]

have to agree. In the past, ships were much more crowded and, other than the outside air ventilation, I am sure food service was not subject to the scrutiny of present day. Not to mention the constant cleaning of public spaces. I guess we are just not as tough.:eek::D Happy New Year to all.

[glojo]

As of the noon time announcement from the captain there was only one new case report to the ship after sail away from St Thomas which I believe now means there a just 4 cases onboard right now.

 

The crew are doing an incredible job of keeping the ship clean and serving the everyone. it has started to become a problem and it is beginning to show!! Extra staff are needed for the King's Court, but the Princess Grill staff in our section of the dining room were run off their feet at lunchtime because many were assigned duties elsewhere. Eventually they were called back to PG to help out.

 

We are enjoying a lovely day at sea!

 

 

Happy New Year from Queen Mary 2

 

 

 

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Thank you for the update and so pleased to hear how it looks like everything is under control.

 

I take my hat off to the hard working crew that must be working extra extra hours to cope with this outbreak. :)

[turquoise 6]

Happy New year to my fellow Cunarders and Cruise Critic Passengers.

Thank you for your interesting Posts .

The Queen Mary 2 will survive and sail on . The Noro virus will not stop me from sailing on board this beautiful Ocean liner.

CHEERS

[Gustavas]

...and all who sail in her. Recently disembarked the iconic QM2 in Southampton on December 4 after yet another legendary crossing. Sailed Celebrity Silhouette back to USA. I have friends currently on QM2. Have not heard from them first hand as yet. (Met them on QV Panama Canal sailing.)

 

Having read all the posts, speaking with fellow ocean liner enthusiasts, cruisers and fellow Cunarders, I am sorry this happened on the Christmas/New Years for these people. Not that it would be better any other time. After also following the CDC reports and the TV reports, I give Cunard, the Captain and the crew a standing ovation for their relentless, exhaustive work and pray, in the end, that it was not the food. Once the CDC finishes their analysis, I suspect (and hope) it will be the result of a passenger or passengers and not the beloved ship. I have been blessed to sail many ships, never suffered illness.

 

My heart goes out to those at sea currently ill, and to the physicians, nurses and staff. I can only imagine the pursers office or Guest Relations as it's now called. The media love all this sensation aimed at, of all ships...The Queen Mary 2....and the subsequently incorrect perception that it is a "Cruise Line" illness, is further conveyed. Most of us here know better. Many of us know and love Cunard well, have sailed them for many years (pre and post Carnival) and agree, as the OP stated, QM2 will sail on and all will be well.

 

Let's get pass this and open the ice champagne.

 

Happy New Year

See you on QE (3/30/13 Transatlantic)

[Salacia]

The CDC report is now posted for the current outbreak on the QM2.

 

Investigation Update on the Queen Mary 2

 

As of now, the reported number of cases are

Passengers: 194 of 2,613 (7.42%)

Crew: 11 of 1,255 (0.88%)

 

Regards,

John.

 

Thanks to Blue Marble for his post dated December 28th, 2012, 01:42 PM, as quoted above. Here's an update from the CDC dated December 31, 2012:

 

 

 

Number of passengers who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of passengers onboard: 201 of 2,613 (7.69%)

Number of crew who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of crew onboard: 14 of 1,255 (1.12%)

 

quoted from http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2012/january3_queen_mary_2.htm

[keithm]

Oh you mean Scottish, Irish or Welsh then? Perhaps you should stop digging now.

 

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Perhaps you should get a sense of humor!

[keithm]

I think it is not ships in particular, but ships, like other places where you have people together in close quarters are viable places for "illnesses" to breed. The ventilation system is something to think about, probably the same as flying, or being in the cinema breathing in everybody elses' waste.

I think it comes back to numbers : Were there less outbreaks of "stomach 'flu' " years ago? Is it because we are all travelling more and spreading these viruses more quickly? Is it because some illnesses are cyclical?

Unfortunately, some British newspapers have latched onto this

gastroenteritis as being a cruise ship illness, and if they can add that it is a luxury cruise ship it adds to the interest, especially when they exaggerate how much the minimum cost is. The press have quoted CC this week, so they have no magical access to Cunard PR.

Anyway, we all love travelling and need to keep active and healthy for our next wonderful journey.

Happy New Year to you all.

Good thought on the possiblities. Another thing..How many pax used to travel, say 40 years ago as compared to today?? I'll be the outbreaks of illness had the same percentage then. With say, a few hundred thousand then v/s millions today.

[keithm]

I am currently on board QM2 and You would not believe the number of times that passengers still do not use the hand sanitizer onboard. Even with all the warnings from the captain. The majority of those I've seen not washing are not foreign but ELDERLY.

 

 

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I always worried about the buffets when I used to see many touching the food without using tongs or waiting for the staff to assist. There were quite a few elderly, but just as many "younger" who've been told numerous times not to touch with their hands!

[AstroExeter]

Perhaps I should but I don't find it funny.

 

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[Salacia]

Perhaps I should but I don't find it funny.

 

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Nor do I.

 

 

But as regards to the topic...

 

I don't understand how the number of crew members reported ill is so disportionatey low when compared to the number of passengers reported ill. But I am certainly happy to read that the crew has not be affected to the same degree that passengers have - I just don't know how it is possible that the crew escaped infection to the same extent that passengers were affected, especially considering the crews exposure.

 

We know that not all passengers report being ill, for various reasons.

 

To me it appears remarkable that so few crew members have contracted the illness (according to the numbers reported). Perhaps crew members also have reasons for not reporting to sick bay?

[Salacia]

Anyone know what percentage and or number of passengers/crew coming down with the Noro it takes for the QM2 to go into a CODE RED ?

 

 

Grandsix, I've been following responses, but as best I can figure out, there is no defivinite number:confused: Are you boarding the ship on 3 Jan? Regards, -S.

 

Edited to add: from what I have researched, public health officials know that the number of reported cases are less than the actual number of cases. So, given the reported number of gastrointestinal illness on board QM2 as last reported to the CDC, the illness (whatever it is) is not contained. And with three sea after leaving the Caribbean and heading to colder waters where most passengers are inside the ship...well, the crew certaintly has quite a task. Best wishes to all concerned. -S.

[glojo]

Nor do I.

 

 

But as regards to the topic...

 

I don't understand how the number of crew members reported ill is so disportionatey low when compared to the number of passengers reported ill. But I am certainly happy to read that the crew has not be affected to the same degree that passengers have - I just don't know how it is possible that the crew escaped infection to the same extent that passengers were affected, especially considering the crews exposure.

 

We know that not all passengers report being ill, for various reasons.

 

To me it appears remarkable that so few crew members have contracted the illness (according to the numbers reported). Perhaps crew members also have reasons for not reporting to sick bay?

Hi Salacia,

I am a critta for asking questions, I thrive on 'knowledge' and the only way to better educate ourselves is by asking questions and doing research.

 

I note how you state to be surprised about the ratio of victims and that has got me asking, 'Why?'

 

Why are you surprised?

 

Do we know the actual numbers involved, ie the total numbers of the crew plus total numbers of passengers?

 

Once we know how many souls were aboard the ship it might start to give an idea of the ratio but....

 

Out of the total number of crew, how many come in direct contact with the passengers? How many of those that come in contact wear gloves when working?

 

Would the crew still be paid if they report sick?

 

Do they report sick to the ship's medical officer, or do they simply inform their supervisor?

 

Is it possible that the living conditions for the crew are not as hygienic as that of fare paying passengers and could they be more 'hardy'?

 

I have no idea and am simply asking these questions as you have voiced concern which tends to indicate you might know some of the answers :)

 

Happy New Year

John

[grandsix]

Have just heard from a reliable source. Current cases are in the single digits.

[Whitemarsh]

Have just heard from a reliable source. Current cases are in the single digits.

 

That's great news. For the enjoyment of the passengers (and workload of the crew) I'm pleased that we've approached the moment where there are more posts in this thread about the virus, than people currently infected on board.

[glojo]

Have just heard from a reliable source. Current cases are in the single digits.

Did you read post #103 ;):)

[capnpugwash]

Did you read post #103 ;):)

 

When did 4 cease to be a single digit?? Have I missed something?

[Whitemarsh]

When did 4 cease to be a single digit?? Have I missed something?

 

It is a single digit. I think glojo was inferring that grandsix's "reliable source" was post #103.

[Salacia]

Hi Salacia,

I am a critta for asking questions, I thrive on 'knowledge' and the only way to better educate ourselves is by asking questions and doing research.

 

I note how you state to be surprised about the ratio of victims and that has got me asking, 'Why?'

 

Why are you surprised?

 

Do we know the actual numbers involved, ie the total numbers of the crew plus total numbers of passengers?

 

Once we know how many souls were aboard the ship it might start to give an idea of the ratio but....

 

Out of the total number of crew, how many come in direct contact with the passengers? How many of those that come in contact wear gloves when working?

 

Would the crew still be paid if they report sick?

 

Do they report sick to the ship's medical officer, or do they simply inform their supervisor?

 

Is it possible that the living conditions for the crew are not as hygienic as that of fare paying passengers and could they be more 'hardy'?

 

I have no idea and am simply asking these questions as you have voiced concern which tends to indicate you might know some of the answers :)

 

Happy New Year

John

 

Hi glojo. I'm surprised that the percentage of crew members who have reported being ill is 1.12% vs. 7.69% of passengers, according to the latest info from the CDC website which shows the following:

Number of passengers who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of passengers onboard: 201 of 2,613 (7.69%)

Number of crew who have reported being ill during the voyage out of total number of crew onboard: 14 of 1,255 (1.12%)

 

 

I don't know how so many of the crew avoids contracting the virus , but I'm delighted that they are apparently able to remain healthy despite being exposed to so many sick passengers either through direct contact or contact with the laundry/linens/dirty dishes, etc. of infected passengers. Those crew members that do not have any direct or indirect contact with passengers still have close contact in crew quarters with those crew members who do have contact with passengers. I don't know how they manage to avoid contracting the virus, but it would be interesting to read a study on the subject if a study has ever been conducted. It might hold some clues as to how passengers could also avoid becoming ill.

 

Of course, it is possible the percentage of sick crew members (or passengers for that matter) is not accurately reflected due to under-reporting, but I have no idea how that would be determined.

 

Sorry, I have no answers to the other interesting questions you raised.

 

Best wishes for 2013

Salacia

[glojo]

It is a single digit. I think glojo was inferring that grandsix's "reliable source" was post #103.

:o:)Thanks and yes...

 

It was very kind of that passenger to take the time to update us and such a pity the post was perhaps not read by contributors to this thread.

 

This condition is quite clearly not nice but to think it is confined to cruise ships or Southampton is perhaps one or two conspiracies too far.

 

Another 80 outbreaks of winter vomiting bug norovirus have been reported in the West Midlands and South Staffordshire over the past fortnight.

 

Public Health Officials in Washoe County, Nevada have released a document telling consumers how to stop the norovirus outbreak in their area. The outbreak has sickened more than 1,400 people by the latest count.

 

EAST Surrey Hospital has been closed to visitors again in a bid to combat the outbreak of norovirus.

No visitors are allowed onto wards at the hospital, in Redhill, and relatives and friends have been asked to phone patients or leave messages.

The hospital was closed last week after the bug, aslo known as winter vomiting and diarrhoea bug, spread among patients.

 

Salacia,

I think the issue of the figures regarding the crew might quite simply due to the fact they are possibly putting on a brave face as this little snippet puts things into some sort of perspective...

 

As most samples sent for analysis come from care homes and hospitals, officials work on a ratio of one laboratory case probably means there are a further 288 cases among people who do not seek medical treatment and are not tested.

 

This is a World-wide issue which possibly some nations report or deal with differently.

 

If we want to create a big scare then record every single case that gets reported.

 

If we want to play the issue down, then simply fine tune the definition of what Noro-virus really is and then onlk,y record those cases where patients have supplied samples that match identically to the profile.

 

Statistics are a great way to make experts out of liars and liars out of experts. :eek::eek: