Worrisome level of petty crime in S.A.

[LAexNY]

I could not disagree more

Buenos aires is the Paris of South America

 

We spent 12 days there two years ago and we are returning to spend another full week next January.

 

Traveling is not about monuments and buildings. Buenos aires is made up of many fascinating neighborhoods. Each is unique. Each requires that you experience it as the portenos do. . Live the buenos aires life. Go to milongas. Dance tango. Stroll the wide boulevards. Sit at the famous cafes. Buenos aires is enchanting and must be experienced

 

And don't forget La Recoleta Cemetery - fascinating.

[pacheco18]

And don't forget La Recoleta Cemetery - fascinating.

 

So true. We are going back for another visit and then plan to people watch at the famous cafe where Robert Duvall hangs out nearby. Name escapes me

 

We are also taking private tango lessons this trip. A side trip to one of the great estancias is great fun too.

 

I could live in buenos aires. What a fascinating place!

[Mura]

I have to agree with Laraine and Dave on Buenos Aires. It's 13 years since we were there but we thoroughly enjoyed this beautiful city. It helped that I had met a gentleman online who lives there and who met us for coffee to give us hints about what to do.

 

As to the TA, we are doing that itinerary this fall. I'm aware of Rio's reputation -- we were last there in 1974 when crime was not nearly as bad as it is now -- but hadn't heard negative comments about Salvador. In fact, we're in contact with a guide there for a tour and he gave us suggestions about things we could do on our own our first night there. He certainly didn't warn us about venturing out alone. Ben grew up in NJ and went to college here. He and his wife returned to Salvador some years ago to live permanently, so clearly he doesn't seem concerned.

 

I didn't see anything in Recife that interested me although a neighboring town (Olinda) is supposed to be well worth a visit.

 

If we survive, I'll let you know when we get back!

 

Mura

[Oceans&Rivers]

Traveling is not about monuments and buildings. Buenos aires is made up of many fascinating neighborhoods. Each is unique. Each requires that you experience it as the portenos do. . Live the buenos aires life. Go to milongas. Dance tango. Stroll the wide boulevards. Sit at the famous cafes. Buenos aires is enchanting and must be experienced

 

I have not been to Buenos Aires, but I agree with your perspective completely.

 

Live the life of the locals. Learn to speak to them and engage them in conversation. Why travel so far away otherwise? We have been in a situation in Mexico City where an attempted pickpocketing (of my husband's wallet) took place on a public bus we were warned not to use (five of them, two of us, and we won), and frankly, the way it unfolded, it's one of our most humorous travel stories (and no one got hurt).

 

When I visit a poor city, I think it's worth the slight risk that someone might try to steal something from me in order to travel off the beaten tourist path and have a more genuine experience otherwise.

 

Of course, this gets harder as I age and am not at the level of fitness I once was...but so far, so good.

[BillPizzaiolo]

[My emphasis added to the above quote]

 

There's a real disconnect between the first two sentences in the excerpt from your post. If the locals can tell we're tourists no matter what we wear, why make inappropriate clothing choices for other reasons? For example, I would never tour in flip flops. They have too little support for a long day of walking and no protection against toes getting stepped on in crowds or scraped on uneven surfaces (e.g. Pompeii).

 

As for the thought of packing local brands of footwear for each of several countries, my mind simply cannot comprehend why anyone would burden his/her suitcase that way. If you're suggesting that any dark leather oxford-style will do in a country where the locals wear dark leather oxfords, think again. Folks who are interested in crimes of opportunity can tell the difference between the local shoe and the bought-elsewhere-to-look-similar shoe. If you're suggesting that the first thing tourists should do when arriving in a new country is to go shoe shopping, well we'll have to agree to disagree on the best way to spend time when traveling.

 

Several posters have already detailed the kinds of jewelry or posessions to leave on the ship. After taking that step, situational awareness is probably our best protection.

 

Finally, don't be shy about yelling if you think something bad is happening to you! Don't yell "help!" Yell "pickpocket" or something along those lines. People looking at the scene may mistake the thieves for helpful bystanders if you yell "help."

 

Perhaps i should have put it another way. Don't advertise with foot wear that is flashy. Look at Merrels, Mephistos, sneakers in darker colors. Avoid the big white belts and flowery silk Tommy Bahama shirts in the streets. Never use an iPad to take pictures in a crowd on shore. It is bound to disappear from your hands. If you wish to go out and buy local shoes in each port be my guest you buy wine locally in each port don't you?

[ksps cruise fan]

... you buy wine locally in each port don't you?

 

Actually, no. If a port has a particular wine focus, my husband and I are likely to arrange a winery tour, but we certainly don't shop for wine in each port. In fact, the number of ports where we've shopped for wine so far is zero. The ship's cellars take care of our needs very nicely, thank you.

 

Basically, I think we agree that visitors need to dress and equip themselves in a way that does not draw attention. However, there are many other details -- hair cut, manner of walking, and stopping to consult a map/guidebook/street signs -- that advertise tourist status.

 

There is no magic bullet against petty crime. Cruisers need to be alert to their surroundings and know the scams so if they begin to unfold, cruisers can take appropriate steps.

[joysav]

joysav

You must take your World Card ( room key) with you. You swipe the card each time you leave the ship and when you return. This is a security measure and a way to have a passenger and crew count before sailing.

Cheers,

Don

 

Are they all the same or has the person who had a go at the baggage labels

had a hand in these also . :o

 

.

[joysav]

We just came off the same cruise that PaulChili was on. We were independent tourists in many of the ports. In speaking with the locals we found out that no matter what we do to look like locals they can tell by our attire that we are affluent travelers. We took cooking classes in both B.A. Argentina and Rio. We took cabs, public transportation and walked. Here are some hints, Never, never wear white sneakers anywhere in the world except the USA, wear local foot wear-do your research. Flip flops in Rio are a must, sandals with straps like Teva's are a no, no giveaway. They will never steal beads but will zoom in on anything that looks like gold or silver. Cheap plastic watches, no look alike Rolex's they will go after them. Never carry a purse if you can't secure it close to your body. A few bills and back up credit card is all you need ashore not the twenty cards in the big wallet you use at home. Carry only things you can easily replace. Never take your money or wallet out in clear view in the street or stores do it very discreetly. Pay your cab in the car not in the street. Only use cabs with meters. Stay clear of groups of local people waiting to trying to be "helpful" in the event of tripping, or other event that slows your progress. They will only fleece you of your stuff.

Pretty good advice especially about the white sneakers/shoes. And of course there are idiots who do wear fake Rolex's watches into these areas.

 

.

[neepawa]

joysav

During check-in, a picture is taken which is stored in the ship’s computer system along with your other info such as cabin number. The info, not the picture, is then put on your “World Card” (room key).

When you leave the ship and return, you swipe the card and the security staff match the picture that comes up on their screen to the person swiping the card.

Cheers,

Don

[Hambagahle]

This kind of crime is world wide...unfortunately we have it even here in Switzerland! Lots of pickpockets especially around stations and places where tourists congregate, plus baggage thieves on trains.

 

The advice not to carry more on you than you can afford to loose is very sound, as is the advice not to wear footwear that mark you as a tourist. Those big sports shoes that many people wear are a dead give away...

 

We spent 4 days in BA at the end of our South American cruise and we all thought it was sensational and by far the most interesting and sophisticated port we visited. If I ever went back to South America I would want to go back there...what a city!

[cpgrneyes]

We just returned from a cruise from Buenos Aires to Rio for Carnival, and spent a few days in both cities. Yes, we heard about thefts from passengers in both BA and in Montevideo. In BA, a passenger "forgot" to remove her diamond bracelet and Rolex watch, and both were stolen. We spent long days exploring Buenos Aires, and were very aware of those around us and luckily had no problems.

 

I loved the city, but it does take walking around to breathe it in. San Telmo is a lovely old neighborhood as is Palermo. Recoleta Cemetary is breathtaking. I believe the cafe mentioned above is Cafe La Biela. Charming, with an immense rubber tree outside that is the size of a city block!

 

Rio is another place that requires being alert. We did a tour to the favelas (shanty towns in the hills) that was fascinating, and I did not feel in any danger.

 

Of course, if I limited my life, not to mention travel, only to safe places, I would have never experienced Venice, Barcelona, Amsterdam, etc.

[pier]

Rio hasn't been a particularly safe place for Americans or other affluent tourists for a number of years. The crime rate is well known, hence the bars on the windows and doors of the people who live there. I'm not surprised that it has gotten worse. With some travel, one has to weigh the risks against the rewards. To me, there's nothing in Rio that's worth the risk.

 

Yelling does help if you're conscious of being robbed or about to be robbed. We were on "Silk Street" in Beijing in 1999 when I saw some youths going after my husband. I yelled "NO" so loud that everyone turned and looked, and the boys ran. It was lucky.

[ricki]

I felt totaly safe in Santiago..no problem. However, Valpariso felt and looked seedy and a bit scary. Its sort of a shanty seaport town and the feeling I got was not a good one. I did not feel at ease. I noticed security guards in the nicer stores entrances.

Friends of my wifes raved how quaint and safe it was, however they think Somalia and Ethiopia are wonderful and safe.

 

THe rest of Chile was fine, not at all like Argentina which in my opinion, except Ushaua, the could skip and do a rt from Santiago or Lima.

 

What worried me in Buenos Aires was the that the worst slums exist with in blocks of the nice places. Once was enough I took tours that went outside the city because of that.

 

 

Sorry, I have to disagree about Valparaiso. We found the city charming, with friendly, helpful people and interesting with a great art community. In fact we liked all the Chilean ports.

 

As for Buenos Aires, it is a beautiful city, with terrific architecture and distinct, interesting neighborhoods.

 

Rio had incredible views from its iconic sites, but the crime rate is just too high for comfort. We spent two days in Rio on a Crystal cruise and did a ship's tour one day and ventured out on our own the next. The only negative that we experienced was a taxi driver attempting to charge us double (we were negotiating the fare before getting in the taxi and in proximity to other drivers), his fellow drivers shouted at us not to use him, that he was charging double. Others on the cruise were not so lucky and there were muggings, purse and camera snatchings and pockets picked. Certainly, common sense dictates not to wear jewelry of the ship, not to take a lot of money or credit cards. I can't understand the reasoning of those who wear a fake Rolex or fake jewelry, just don't wear anything except a cheap Timex watch.

 

Ricki

[writer100]

There is nothing in Buenos Aires, in my opinion, that you cant see in 2 hours. Nothing "Iconic" like Rome, Paris, NY, London, Amsterdam. I found it and all the other Argentine ports except Ushuea, to be , well a waste of time to me..

Too the rising crime, poverity, political turmoil and terrorism ( Peru where this week the US issued a travel advisory against travel to Machu Picchu because of Kidnapping) make for a on the edge feel. South America has a sordid political history and It is good for one trip at least.

 

I took my cruise to see Chile Fijords, Falklands, Antarctica and Iguazu falls and could have cared less about the others. But that is me. Some are in love with Buenos Aires... great, I found nothing but just a big city with little charm

However, If you go for one the sights I mentioned then it will be good.. just stay on the ship when in questionable ports.;)

Sir: As someone who has been to Argentina for 5 of the last six years, I have to say your opinion that there is nothing in Buenos Aires that warrants spending more than 2 hours is one of the most extraordinary comments I have ever seen on these boards. You have to be culturally blind to make such a statement. You could spend a whole day in MALBA, but if you don't already know what that is enlightenment will mean little. Buenos Aires is like a beautiful and complex woman. She can be beguiling, flirtatious, provocative, sometimes difficult, perhaps even dangerous. It is certainly true that the current government has done little to stabilize the economy or sow hope amongst the populace. To be proactive against street crtime, do what many have suggested in terms of keeping a low target profile. And keep a roll of quarters in your right hand pants pocket. Be able to yell, "Jal Ladro!" might be good. It means Stop Thief. And learn at least one good insult. (Though use it with care, if at all.) One such is, pendejo, which has a range of meanings, from jerk to idiot to --well, the next level of definition will surely get this comment expunged.

[orchestrapal]

This kind of crime is world wide...unfortunately we have it even here in Switzerland! Lots of pickpockets especially around stations and places where tourists congregate, plus baggage thieves on trains.

The advice not to carry more on you than you can afford to loose is very sound, as is the advice not to wear footwear that mark you as a tourist. Those big sports shoes that many people wear are a dead give away...

We spent 4 days in BA at the end of our South American cruise and we all thought it was sensational and by far the most interesting and sophisticated port we visited. If I ever went back to South America I would want to go back there...what a city!

 

We will be in Switzerland for 5 weeks in May-June and find it hard to believe and very sad that this perfect country which we have visited 10 times in the past now has the same problems as the rest of the world.

So very sad! :(

[Hawaiidan]

Sir: As someone who has been to Argentina for 5 of the last six years, I have to say your opinion that there is nothing in Buenos Aires that warrants spending more than 2 hours is one of the most extraordinary comments I have ever seen on these boards. You have to be culturally blind to make such a statement. You could spend a whole day in MALBA, but if you don't already know what that is enlightenment will mean little. Buenos Aires is like a beautiful and complex woman. She can be beguiling, flirtatious, provocative, sometimes difficult, perhaps even dangerous. It is certainly true that the current government has done little to stabilize the economy or sow hope amongst the populace. To be proactive against street crtime, do what many have suggested in terms of keeping a low target profile. And keep a roll of quarters in your right hand pants pocket. Be able to yell, "Jal Ladro!" might be good. It means Stop Thief. And learn at least one good insult. (Though use it with care, if at all.) One such is, pendejo, which has a range of meanings, from jerk to idiot to --well, the next level of definition will surely get this comment expunged.

 

I respect your romantic notion but dont share it.

 

I have been traveling world wide for 30 years for business and pleasure..I am not culturaly blind; it is that for me the culture in Buenos Aires is and has no interest.

 

I much prefer mountains, landscapes and forests to sitting in a street cafe or watching street artists or a tango.. In truth most cities can't hold a candle to natures wonders. But thats me. You would proably not be excited to float the Colorado or see the karst of Cambodia...but thats Ok

 

As you compare the city to a woman, I will say that I find some women more attractive and interseting than others.. We, you and I, have differing tastes. As to the statement Buenos Aires is the Paris of South America I read that as a sad commentary if thats the best there is.

[wripro]

I'm sure there are people for whom the culture in Paris holds no interest. Or rome. Or Hong Kong. Or Sydney. that doesn't mean it's not there.

[joysav]

joysav

During check-in, a picture is taken which is stored in the ship’s computer system along with your other info such as cabin number. The info, not the picture, is then put on your “World Card” (room key).

When you leave the ship and return, you swipe the card and the security staff match the picture that comes up on their screen to the person swiping the card.

Cheers,

Don

 

Is it a bit like the joke about your passport.

 

When you start to look like the photograph its time to go home. :eek:

 

.

[LuAnn]

I've been wanting to take the Marina Transatlantic but my partner keeps telling me that Salvador and Rio are very dangerous and there is really nothing to see (compared to any ports in Europe). There is something exotic about traveling to Brazil....but if Recife, Salvador and Rio are unsafe, rundown with lots of crime and questionable people and neighborhoods then what's the point in going. I've heard Buenos Aires if fantastic but I'm learning from this thread that it's also questionable. Maybe I should just stick with Europe. Any thoughts?

 

in late November this year...and all places were fine...at least for us...in that time frame! Have been to BA on another cruise and one of our travel partners did have an attempt to have her expensive camera stolen..they came up behind her and sprayed her with white "goop" that looked like pigeon droppings...and then tried to get her away from the public place to "help her"...

 

Just be cautious...don't wear/present anything they want to steal and enjoy yourself...it was a great cruise! Pls. don't let fear stop you from new places..go out, be cautious and I think you will be fine!!! LuAnn

[LuAnn]

I could not disagree more

Buenos aires is the Paris of South America

 

We spent 12 days there two years ago and we are returning to spend another full week next January.

 

Traveling is not about monuments and buildings. Buenos aires is made up of many fascinating neighborhoods. Each is unique. Each requires that you experience it as the portenos do. . Live the buenos aires life. Go to milongas. Dance tango. Stroll the wide boulevards. Sit at the famous cafes. Buenos aires is enchanting and must be experienced

 

 

with you ...loved the city and the portenos were so nice!!!...and did one of those famous cafes....perfect!!! LuAnn

[LuAnn]

And don't forget La Recoleta Cemetery - fascinating.

 

Evita's spirit is there...I SO felt it...amazing!!! LuAnn

[LuAnn]

I have not been to Buenos Aires, but I agree with your perspective completely.

 

Live the life of the locals. Learn to speak to them and engage them in conversation. Why travel so far away otherwise? We have been in a situation in Mexico City where an attempted pickpocketing (of my husband's wallet) took place on a public bus we were warned not to use (five of them, two of us, and we won), and frankly, the way it unfolded, it's one of our most humorous travel stories (and no one got hurt).

 

When I visit a poor city, I think it's worth the slight risk that someone might try to steal something from me in order to travel off the beaten tourist path and have a more genuine experience otherwise.

 

Of course, this gets harder as I age and am not at the level of fitness I once was...but so far, so good.

 

and I so agree...I think we "give up" if we stay home when considering certain parts of the world. LuAnn

[burm]

When I think of Buenos Aires I do not think of thieves, I think of the stranger who asked her friend if she could share her umbrella so that she could give hers to me when she saw how wet I was (knowing she would not get it back), the couple who 30 seconds later told me that I could take the next taxi so that I would not get sick, the tough looking young couple who helped me up when I fell on a pothole in the sidewalk and walked me home to make sure I made it safely, the engineer who took a day off work to give me a tour of his city (he was in the process of purchasing a new factory, but told his lawyer that he was busy and could not take calls).

 

I remember how upset my landlady was that I took a taxi only 2 blocks from the Plaza de Mayo at 1:00 AM - she said that I had no reason to feel unsafe! I remember all the delightful surprises in unexpected places, like the beautiful old architecture on the second floor of a typical Burger King - I felt like I had walked into a Moorish palace. At every turn I would discover hidden courtyards, and fascinating sights. When I was hungry I would approach a local and ask them where the best restaurant was - they never steered my wrong. I remember an evening open air tango concert in the former convent next to the Recoleta Cemetary.

 

Eight weeks in this enchanting city was not enough.

[Mura]

Burm,

 

Those memories are the ones we want to keep and why we travel.

 

When we were in Rio -- admittedly a lifetime ago, in 1974 -- people often went out of their way to take us to our destination.

 

On a bus they all helped us find our restaurant which turned out to be extremely expensive at the time. Whereas we could get a filet mignon dinner with wine for $5pp back then, this restaurant cost us $40pp. They couldn't have been more helpful when you could understand why they might have been resentful.

 

Times were easier then, but there was still plenty of poverty.

 

Mura

[pacheco18]

When I think of Buenos Aires I do not think of thieves, I think of the stranger who asked her friend if she could share her umbrella so that she could give hers to me when she saw how wet I was (knowing she would not get it back), the couple who 30 seconds later told me that I could take the next taxi so that I would not get sick, the tough looking young couple who helped me up when I fell on a pothole in the sidewalk and walked me home to make sure I made it safely, the engineer who took a day off work to give me a tour of his city (he was in the process of purchasing a new factory, but told his lawyer that he was busy and could not take calls).

 

I remember how upset my landlady was that I took a taxi only 2 blocks from the Plaza de Mayo at 1:00 AM - she said that I had no reason to feel unsafe! I remember all the delightful surprises in unexpected places, like the beautiful old architecture on the second floor of a typical Burger King - I felt like I had walked into a Moorish palace. At every turn I would discover hidden courtyards, and fascinating sights. When I was hungry I would approach a local and ask them where the best restaurant was - they never steered my wrong. I remember an evening open air tango concert in the former convent next to the Recoleta Cemetary.

 

Eight weeks in this enchanting city was not enough.

 

Enchanting post!