Cost Cutting in Last 5 years

[doublebzz]

I think whether or not HAL is a premium cruise line depends on one's criteria.

 

If being a premium cruise line depends on the quality of the beef or of the entertainment, I have no basis for comparison because I haven't sailed on another cruise line for more than five years.

 

But if being a premium cruise line depends on treating its passengers like premium passengers, HAL certainly qualifies as far as I'm concerned. I can remember only three times over nine cruises averaging about three weeks each that an employee of HAL did not treat me with the dignity that I expected as an aged and well-behaved passenger.

 

I doubt very much that a mass-market cruise line could do half as well.

 

That's certainly one way of looking at it. In my view, the definition of "mass market" refers to affordability and, on that basis, HAL would fit in with Princess, RCCL, Celebrity and others. The so called "luxury" lines like Regent, Seabourn, Crystal, etc. market to a limited segment of society have have thousands of dollars at their discretion to spend on cruises. I agree with you, however, that HAL has always provided premium service to me although I would never admit to being "aged" or necessarily a "well-behaved" passenger.

[Strode Wallace]

From 2002 through 2008 HAL cruises had wonderful service and made us want to come back. After HAL cruises in 2009 and 2010 we noticed that room stewards had their number of rooms triple. MDR waiters had their number of table double. There were no more musicians playing brass instruments...no more trumpets or trombones.

 

You began to feel sorry for an over worked staff, which made the cruise less enjoyable.

 

We left HAL and tried Celebrity for two years. I was not surprised to see Celebrity staffers that I used to see on HAL ships. MDR and suite/stateroom stewards were much better.

 

We will be trying Cunard for the first time this year. We would have switched to a top premium line if the destinations matched where and when we wanted to travel.

[JennysUncle]

We are recently back from the Jan 4 2013 Maasdam sailing, and so can compare it directly to our Jan 27 2012 sailing last year. There is definite cost-cutting: this year there was no desert 'extravaganza' night; the late-night food in the Lido is now generic rather than rotating 'ethnic'; the evening cordials in Explorer's lounge are gone; espresso in the dining room is now charged for; the prizes for trivia and games have been minimized; there was a sense of reduced staffing in the DR and Lido; and there was too much visible 'wear-and-tear' suggesting deferred maintenance.

[Route6A]

I have not posted on the HAL board for a long time, because we are no longer sailing with Holland America for many of the reasons mentioned on this thread. Perhaps HAL will read this thread and realize that many longtime HAL passengers are choosing different lines. We began sailing with HAL way back in the 1970's and stopped after a cruise on the Nieuw Amsterdam in 2011.

 

We are happy with Cunard's Queen Mary 2 at the moment, and also sail with Celebrity but only on their newer ships.

[Murray's Pop]

We started cruising with HAL in 2004, after a number of previous NCL and RCL cruises, and after that first cruise became exclusive HAL customers. We started noticing the changes in 2009. Little things at first, like fewer fresh flowers. Then over time we began to see the things that have been mentioned here quite often - a reduction in cabin stewards and MDR staff, a decrease in the quality of the food in the MDR, and a general apparent "shift" in HAL's focused demographic.

 

As a result, we have decided to see if by trying a different cruise line we can find a similar experience to what caused us to become HAL regulars in the first place - a "premium" experience. We will be sailing with Celebrity on the Century later this year.

 

Who knows, maybe we will return to HAL again, stay with Celebrity, or try another line, but in it's current iteration HAL no longer provides us with what we feel is the "premium" experience.

[solocanadian]

I took my first cruise on the Oosterdamn in 2007. I was in heaven. The service was fabulous. There was always a waiter nearby in the MDR, I saw our room stewards quite a bit. We just took our second cruise in 2012 same ship, and I noticed the wait staff much more harried and service was not too great. Not awful, but not nearly as good as it was in 2007. I never saw our room steward but our room was always made up and looked good. My next cruise in next month on the Zaandam. I'm sure it will be fine.

Respectfully, you have not cruised long enough with HAL to see the many differences explained in this thread.:)

[solocanadian]

In many ways, I do feel HAL's tag line "A Signature of Excellence" is accurate but there are some areas which have slipped noticeably. Most obvious, of course, is the reduction in crew.

The ships are still beautiful, they are clean and safe and maintained (so far as we are able to observe), the crews are wonderful and do their utmost to provide us the best possible cruise, the itineraries are better than many other cruise lines, there are still fresh flowers unlike other lines though admittedly fewer bouquet, hand clothes in public restrooms, always a smiling face to greet us.........

 

Yes, I think HAL still earns the right to use that tag line.

 

It is the penny pinching, small annoying cutbacks that annoy me more than some of the larger cost saving areas. To use a smaller ice cream scoop... Really? To cut a piece of pound cake in half? To not have cream cheese anymore. It seems to me what they now serve is whipped butter...doesn't taste like cream cheese on my bagel. Those are the niggly little 'cheap' going too far things that make me sad.

 

 

JMO....

 

Hear, hear!

[cruiserzoid]

That "Signature of Excellence" motto is joke actually. They don't have good customer service. They do not try to resolve problems and it takes a long and tedious tenacious effort to get things resolved. They do not care about their customers. They figure there are more potential customers and do not try to keep teh ones they have.

 

HAL does excel in 2 areas though:embarkation and disembarkation. Really smooth compared to the other cruiselines. Also,the Luggage Direct program is unique to HAL.Royal Caribbean has SOMETHING like it;but,not as good. You have to take teh luggage through customs and go to an airline representative and turn your bags in to their representative.

[world~citizen]

... They don't have good customer service. They do not try to resolve problems and it takes a long and tedious tenacious effort to get things resolved. They do not care about their customers.

 

Even in the glory days this was true. Going to the front office to resolve a problem could leave you walking away more frustrated than you where when you approached. I have said numerous times on this board that HAL might just as well put up a complaining wall.

 

It is all the more frustrating because it need not be this way. So refreshing it is to sail X or Azamara for this reason alone.

 

I think HAL likes it this way. I don't think this will change.

[cavecreekguy]

You can get ice water, lemons and sugar. Voila...... lemonade. :)

 

 

You have got to be kidding me.

 

"I miss the fresh squeezed orange juice HAL used to offer"

 

"Here's some oranges. Go squeeze them yourself"

 

"I miss how the ships, you know, actually moved through the water."

 

"Here's an oar, start rowing"

[sail7seas]

You have got to be kidding me.

 

"I miss the fresh squeezed orange juice HAL used to offer"

 

"Here's some oranges. Go squeeze them yourself"

 

"I miss how the ships, you know, actually moved through the water."

 

"Here's an oar, start rowing"

 

 

:D 'Ya think there's something of a leap from

 

lemons, ice water and sweetener to

 

Here's an Oar? :D :D

 

 

 

[cruiserzoid]

It is not just the front desk that is inet at handling complaints;the Seattle office is just as bad when you write a concise coherent letter. Takes several tries to get any resolution. It gets worse every time.They do not care. The attitude is"take it or leave". They think they have the monopoly on "Excellence".

[Murray's Pop]

You have got to be kidding me.

 

"I miss the fresh squeezed orange juice HAL used to offer"

 

"Here's some oranges. Go squeeze them yourself"

 

"I miss how the ships, you know, actually moved through the water."

 

"Here's an oar, start rowing"

 

Absolutely love it!!!!:D

[startwin]

Respectfully, you have not cruised long enough with HAL to see the many differences explained in this thread.:)

 

I disagree. The changes from 2007 to 2012 are huge and noticeable. Even in the one year from 2011 to 2012 there were many evident cutbacks, some really small but nevertheless clear to those who had cruised HAL before.

[cavecreekguy]

:D 'Ya think there's something of a leap from

 

lemons, ice water and sweetener to

 

Here's an Oar? :D :D

 

 

Quality of menu choices and crew levels.

Way fewer fresh flowers and the former huge, gorgeous bouquets are a fraction of what they once were.

 

Maybe you should just bring your own flowers.

 

I did a double take in Neptune when I saw the small plate of pound cake they put out one afternoon. They have offered three flavors of that nice, moist cake for years. It was always triangle shaped slices perfect with a cup of tea. They have now cut those slices in half. I laughed to see that.

 

Well you can always take two slices.

 

Has anyone noticed they have new ice cream scoops? They are so small that a scoop of ice cream falls into the small cones. I watched as a server was preparing a cone for someone and when she put the scoop on the top of the cone, it fell in and no ice cream was visible. :D

 

Well maybe I should have said you should bring your own ice cream scoop.

 

I guess I find it very inconsiderate to detail all the cut backs you aren't happy about then tell someone else that if they aren't happy with something that they should just do it themselves.

[sail7seas]

Maybe you should just bring your own flowers.

 

 

 

Well you can always take two slices.

 

 

 

Well maybe I should have said you should bring your own ice cream scoop.

 

I guess I find it very inconsiderate to detail all the cut backs you aren't happy about then tell someone else that if they aren't happy with something that they should just do it themselves.

 

It seems I have deeply offended you and I apologize. It was not intentional and I am very sorry. I don't drink lemonade so I was woefully uninformed. Seeing I don't drink lemonade or orange juice, I had no idea how I was stepping on toes thinking it was so simple but clearly it is not. I wasn't really aware HAL ever did serve lemonade or if I was I had forgotten.

 

I shall try hard to be more careful in the future.

 

[Willem Ruys]

Already there. :)

 

After over 2200 days (for me) and over 2600 for Chris we are NOT continuing with HAL...here is PART of why not - cutbacks in service, working crew to death, awful entertainment, not much to do, cutbacks, cutbacks and more cutbacks and removing any touch of HOLLAND from Holland America Line - NO cutie dressed in a Volendammer costume on embark, no Dutch dinner, NO Indonesian lunch..and MORE...they used to provide what we DO want, now they provide what we don't want - we've had it and have voted with out feet and pocketbooks. We disembarked the cruise world for the sunny Sandwich Islands of HAWAII for the season...The first thing we noticed here is the FOOD is FRESH! Food made from FRESH INGREDIENTS! Not the deep frozen food ships are obliged to serve. Lest I go on and on, I see cruising now as pretty much a sucker's game.

[cavecreekguy]

It seems I have deeply offended you and I apologize. It was not intentional and I am very sorry. I don't drink lemonade so I was woefully uninformed. Seeing I drink lemonade or orange juice, I had no idea how I was stepping on toes thinking it was so simple but clearly it is not. I wasn't really aware HAL ever did serve lemonade or if I was I had forgotten.

 

I shall try hard to be more careful in the future.

 

 

I am not "deeply offended," only mildly offended. But it has nothing to do with orange juice or lemonade specifically. The topic of the thread is cutbacks on HAL. When someone laments something they miss, telling them to just do it themselves is insulting. It could be applied to many services we have come to expect on HAL cruises. From a full hot room service breakfast menu (just go to the Lido or MDR if you want a hot breakfast) to nightly turndown service (just turn the bedding down yourself).

[CowPrincess]

Cavecreekguy, well said!

 

Startwin, I agree, we have noticed many cutbacks between 2008 and now. I won't even discuss the changes between 1994 and now, those days are LONG gone.

[Randyk47]

I won't even discuss the changes between 1994 and now, those days are LONG gone.

 

In many ways, other than in name and the still underlying wonderful crew, it is very much a different product since the early 90's....disturbingly so. :(

[Taxguy77]

We have noticed many cutbacks over the years. Some are small -- some very noticeable. They all add up.

The quality of the beef and meat in general has gotten poor.

We are not impressed with the new menus in the main dining room for lunch or dinner.

Service can be very slow in the dining room -- the waiters just have far too many tables to take care of.

And on a couple of ships we have been on, the waiters now have to take cocktail orders. They have to stop and process them, go about taking orders, a "runner" drops off the cocktails at the station, the waiter again has to stop and deliver the drinks. In the meantime we have watched as the wine stewards are just standing around. Their only job now is to take orders for bottles of wine only -- no cocktails, glasses of wine, or sodas. Thus there are fewer wine stewards on some ships that have this new system.

 

The combination makes one of the highlights of a cruise into just a fastfood place for dinner. What used to be an occaision into less than we can get at home in a second class restaurant, and many more choices of places to go than on any mega-ship. :eek:

[doublebzz]

In many ways, other than in name and the still underlying wonderful crew, it is very much a different product since the early 90's....disturbingly so. :(

 

Back in 1995, I recall paying $899 each for an outside cabin on the old Noordam for an Eastern Caribbean cruise. Today, I see the same cruise on a much nicer ship (Westerdam) advertised for $499. That $800 difference will buy you a lot of lemonade, cream cheese, pillow chocolates and newspapers. So what's the point? You can't reduce prices 44%, not even adjusting for 18 years of inflation, and expect the same amenities at the higher price. I know this seems harsh but if folks want all these amenities and more personal service, they are just going to have to "bite the bullet" and move up to Oceania, Regent or similar product. Its just not realistic to pay less and expect more.

[peaches from georgia]

Back in 1995, I recall paying $899 each for an outside cabin on the old Noordam for an Eastern Caribbean cruise. Today, I see the same cruise on a much nicer ship (Westerdam) advertised for $499. That $800 difference will buy you a lot of lemonade, cream cheese, pillow chocolates and newspapers. So what's the point? You can't reduce prices 44%, not even adjusting for 18 years of inflation, and expect the same amenities at the higher price. I know this seems harsh but if folks want all these amenities and more personal service, they are just going to have to "bite the bullet" and move up to Oceania, Regent or similar product. Its just not realistic to pay less and expect more.

That is true, of course. The griping is from people who knew the old HAL when it was truly premium and would rather see the amenities back and pay more to get them. Since that doesnt seem to be an option many people are moving up to other lines. Evidently HAL doesn't care. However, I don't think there is any reason not to air complaints and tell it like it is and like it was. It's not my job to protect HAL and worry whether I or others are 'discouraging' new cruisers from cruising with HAL. Attracting new cruisers is HAL's problem and their only answer seems to be by decreasing prices.

[CowPrincess]

Back in 1995, I recall paying $899 each for an outside cabin on the old Noordam for an Eastern Caribbean cruise. Today, I see the same cruise on a much nicer ship (Westerdam) advertised for $499. That $800 difference will buy you a lot of lemonade, cream cheese, pillow chocolates and newspapers. So what's the point? You can't reduce prices 44%, not even adjusting for 18 years of inflation, and expect the same amenities at the higher price. I know this seems harsh but if folks want all these amenities and more personal service, they are just going to have to "bite the bullet" and move up to Oceania, Regent or similar product. Its just not realistic to pay less and expect more.

 

I agree. The "olden days" are gone. Period. Full stop. There is still, for us, enormous VALUE in HAL cruises. It isn't the same, I don't expect it ever will be the same, as it was in the 1990s or the 2000s. My DH (whose first cruise was in 2008) is still pretty much delighted-beyond-words every time we cruise. I don't point out the things that are different now. Heck I'M different now :D I may not approve of all the changes, but if we don't dwell on the changes, the onboard experience remains very pleasant.

 

... and my first cruise was 7 days for (IIRC) $1900 in an inside cabin on an old ship that was about to be sold off (Westerdam) for a "single share" -- an unknown roommate to share the cabin for 7 days :eek: Now, DH and I can cruise for less than that in total for 7 days, and on some itins get a balcony.

[sail7seas]

Originally Posted by sail7seas

It seems I have deeply offended you and I apologize. It was not intentional and I am very sorry. I don't drink lemonade so I was woefully uninformed. Seeing I drink lemonade or orange juice, I had no idea how I was stepping on toes thinking it was so simple but clearly it is not. I wasn't really aware HAL ever did serve lemonade or if I was I had forgotten.

 

I shall try hard to be more careful in the future.

 

 

 

 

I am not "deeply offended," only mildly offended. But it has nothing to do with orange juice or lemonade specifically. The topic of the thread is cutbacks on HAL. When someone laments something they miss, telling them to just do it themselves is insulting. It could be applied to many services we have come to expect on HAL cruises. From a full hot room service breakfast menu (just go to the Lido or MDR if you want a hot breakfast) to nightly turndown service (just turn the bedding down yourself).

 

 

I have asked you accept my apology.......

 

That is about all I can do,

No?

If you find you are able to accept it, that would be good.

Is there something else I can do to lessen your being offended?