Are there any updates on the Grandeur of the Seas?

[chengkp75]

Ive been biting my tongue here. I was on the ship during the fire and gave live updates with just the facts. There was a crew party going on back there at the time of the fire (that is where there "crew bar" is located). The crew member in charge of my muster station was at it and was the one who called it in. She and other crew member had smelled something "not right" for approx 20-30 mins and decided to call in the smell. She did say they had a barbecue back there but I do not know if it was a grill or what or if it was actually in use.

 

Thank you, something closer to first hand knowledge. Crew parties are fairly common, and are generally catered from the crew mess, also in the area. If there had been an approved grill operation, just like when one is done in guest areas, there are additional fire protection measures taken. Again, I cannot say whether it was a grill or not, but one other comment you make seems to point elsewhere. If the crewmember smelled an odor for 20-30 minutes, this is more indicative of an electrical start to the fire than a grill mishap. Also, the smell of something "not right" for this period without a heat or smoke detector going off leads me to suspect that the cause had nothing to do with the crew party, but was in an adjacent area, or within nearby equipment.

[BillB48]

Chief, for the most part I think we are in violent agreement and I did not originally think that a BBQ was most likely the cause, but after reading Dharma517's post, certainly more weight may have to be given to the BBQ theory. I originally thought it may just have been an off hand comment someone made in jest, now who knows... the fire could be self inflicted.

 

" If we take away these things, how are they going to hide an oil drum grill?" My purpose here was only to illustrate that a BBQ pit could be made out of the simplest materials and that a factory made state of the art pit did not need to spirited aboard under the noses of security, although there are some rather clever camping type that may have been brought aboard without causing a stir. When some one posts that something could not happen because of security would not allow it or the like.... I am only trying to offer other possibilities that they may not have thought of.

 

As I said in a previous thread about the fire, I believe that whatever the cause, RCI is not going to be shown in the kindest light, otherwise we would have already known the cause. Two schools of thought, get the bad news out of the way ASAP or delay it as long as you can, we are beyond ASAP at this point. I think they know what happened and they will ease the news out when it is in their "best" interest. Let's face it, if everyone did everything they were supposed to and everything worked as it should, there would not be very many accidents, fires or anything else go wrong.

 

I don't have a dog in this hunt either, but I am a consumer of the product and I want the product to do well. I also am an owner, so I do have another reason for the product to do well. I am not under any delusion that Adam will be concerned how I cast my ballots;).

[sf2]

As someone who's partaken in many crew BBQ's on this ship . . . due to how the back deck is built, the grills are set up on deck 4 on the OTHER side of the ship from where the fire started.

 

Same BBQ setup you see on the guest deck with fire fighting equipment on the ready.

 

Any crew party has to be authorized by management, any open flame (be it BBQ or welding) has to have paperwork done and procedures to follow.

[chengkp75]

Chief, for the most part I think we are in violent agreement and I did not originally think that a BBQ was most likely the cause, but after reading Dharma517's post, certainly more weight may have to be given to the BBQ theory. I originally thought it may just have been an off hand comment someone made in jest, now who knows... the fire could be self inflicted.

 

" If we take away these things, how are they going to hide an oil drum grill?" My purpose here was only to illustrate that a BBQ pit could be made out of the simplest materials and that a factory made state of the art pit did not need to spirited aboard under the noses of security, although there are some rather clever camping type that may have been brought aboard without causing a stir. When some one posts that something could not happen because of security would not allow it or the like.... I am only trying to offer other possibilities that they may not have thought of.

 

As I said in a previous thread about the fire, I believe that whatever the cause, RCI is not going to be shown in the kindest light, otherwise we would have already known the cause. Two schools of thought, get the bad news out of the way ASAP or delay it as long as you can, we are beyond ASAP at this point. I think they know what happened and they will ease the news out when it is in their "best" interest. Let's face it, if everyone did everything they were supposed to and everything worked as it should, there would not be very many accidents, fires or anything else go wrong.

 

I don't have a dog in this hunt either, but I am a consumer of the product and I want the product to do well. I also am an owner, so I do have another reason for the product to do well. I am not under any delusion that Adam will be concerned how I cast my ballots;).

 

Bill;

 

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and regret that my posts may have had that tenor. I try not to say something can't happen, just that it isn't likely.

 

I still think the hidden nugget in Dharma's post is the smell for a half hour with no fire alarm. You are correct that lots would have to fail to have this as a cause, both in personal conduct and in management system. This would not reflect well on RCI.

 

Given all the interest in cruise ship problems these days, no incident like this will reflect well on RCI, even if it is shown to be an equipment failure.

 

Yes, I believe the cause is known, and I also believe that RCI intends to slip the news out as quietly as possible, some time in the future.

 

You have more dog in this than I do, since I have not sailed RCI, nor to I own shares there. I really came to posting here just to try to correct mistakes that people had about the Triumph fire, and have stayed to watch other incidents and give an insider's view on some aspects of ship operation. I hope that all lines do well, and that this kind of thing does not adversely affect cruising, even though it might require additional safety measures.

[BillB48]

Bill;

 

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone, and regret that my posts may have had that tenor. I try not to say something can't happen, just that it isn't likely.

 

I still think the hidden nugget in Dharma's post is the smell for a half hour with no fire alarm. You are correct that lots would have to fail to have this as a cause, both in personal conduct and in management system. This would not reflect well on RCI.

 

Given all the interest in cruise ship problems these days, no incident like this will reflect well on RCI, even if it is shown to be an equipment failure.

 

Yes, I believe the cause is known, and I also believe that RCI intends to slip the news out as quietly as possible, some time in the future.

 

You have more dog in this than I do, since I have not sailed RCI, nor to I own shares there. I really came to posting here just to try to correct mistakes that people had about the Triumph fire, and have stayed to watch other incidents and give an insider's view on some aspects of ship operation. I hope that all lines do well, and that this kind of thing does not adversely affect cruising, even though it might require additional safety measures.

 

I did not think we were going to do battle because I really think we are on the same page. Just sometimes I guess these keyboards inject a sterility that is not intended and would not be perceived if we were talking in the here and now. I for one do appreciated your insight first hand, it certainly does help bring things to a proper perspective. Good to hear it from someone who has been there.

 

In the mean time I guess I'll just go back to waiting for the silence to break on the cause. Here's to smooth sailing!

[foxgoodrich]

Ive been biting my tongue here. I was on the ship during the fire and gave live updates with just the facts. There was a crew party going on back there at the time of the fire (that is where there "crew bar" is located). The crew member in charge of my muster station was at it and was the one who called it in. She and other crew member had smelled something "not right" for approx 20-30 mins and decided to call in the smell. She did say they had a barbecue back there but I do not know if it was a grill or what or if it was actually in use.

 

We recently did a TA on Navigator in an aft balcony on deck 7. (Yup..it was the corner aft!:D) On Navigator, the crew mess/bar area/party area is on deck 5 aft, and we could see the open area from our balcony. In fact, when we cruised the Straits of Gibraltar, there were quite a few off duty crew out there taking pictures, having drinks, etc. All the folks on the aft balconies were out, and we were talking and joking with the crew members down there about tying sheets together and sending a basket down for some drinks from the crew bar.

 

Anyway, my point is - It doesn't make sense for crew to party on the mooring deck. I understand that Grandeur and Nav are 2 different classes of ship, but I really think the mooring deck on both ships is a dedicated area that most likely is not used for crew parties. Each ship has a dedicated area for crew - galley, eating area, bar, open deck area. Seems like I read the crew area was on deck 4 on Grandeur. That's where the crew party would have been. If crew members smelled something, as Dharma517 said, that really does sound like the source was electrical or maybe mechanical to me. And that smell probably was coming from the deck below them - the mooring deck.

 

Chengkp75 has the most firsthand ship knowledge here and what he has suggested seems most likely to me. Crew members clearly know how to use a grill safely on the ship since they use them all the time on the pool deck for passengers, and I really doubt that a barbecue is the source of the fire. The big question to me is why there were no alarms - like from smoke detectors or heat sensors - early on. Or if there were alarms, why they weren't heeded.

 

And it's been less than a month since the fire, right? There are several agencies involved in the investigation. Might there also be insurance people involved too? There may be liability issues that have to be sorted out. If the cause was electrical or mechanical, it may have its roots in the dry dock renovation that was done a year ago. Or maybe there was some kind of human failure and something wasn't done right when the ship sailed from port hours earlier.

 

Seems like the more people/agencies you have involved in the final report, the longer it takes. And the Bahamas, as the flag state, would have the lead. So there we are. I don't read anything sinister into the fact that no public announcement has been made yet. It's only been about 3 weeks since the fire.

Judy

P.S. to Cheng and Bill - I didn't think you guys were fighting.:) I thought you were discussing.

[chengkp75]

We recently did a TA on Navigator in an aft balcony on deck 7. (Yup..it was the corner aft!:D) On Navigator, the crew mess/bar area/party area is on deck 5 aft, and we could see the open area from our balcony. In fact, when we cruised the Straits of Gibraltar, there were quite a few off duty crew out there taking pictures, having drinks, etc. All the folks on the aft balconies were out, and we were talking and joking with the crew members down there about tying sheets together and sending a basket down for some drinks from the crew bar.

 

Anyway, my point is - It doesn't make sense for crew to party on the mooring deck. I understand that Grandeur and Nav are 2 different classes of ship, but I really think the mooring deck on both ships is a dedicated area that most likely is not used for crew parties. Each ship has a dedicated area for crew - galley, eating area, bar, open deck area. Seems like I read the crew area was on deck 4 on Grandeur. That's where the crew party would have been. If crew members smelled something, as Dharma517 said, that really does sound like the source was electrical or maybe mechanical to me. And that smell probably was coming from the deck below them - the mooring deck.

 

Chengkp75 has the most firsthand ship knowledge here and what he has suggested seems most likely to me. Crew members clearly know how to use a grill safely on the ship since they use them all the time on the pool deck for passengers, and I really doubt that a barbecue is the source of the fire. The big question to me is why there were no alarms - like from smoke detectors or heat sensors - early on. Or if there were alarms, why they weren't heeded.

 

And it's been less than a month since the fire, right? There are several agencies involved in the investigation. Might there also be insurance people involved too? There may be liability issues that have to be sorted out. If the cause was electrical or mechanical, it may have its roots in the dry dock renovation that was done a year ago. Or maybe there was some kind of human failure and something wasn't done right when the ship sailed from port hours earlier.

 

Seems like the more people/agencies you have involved in the final report, the longer it takes. And the Bahamas, as the flag state, would have the lead. So there we are. I don't read anything sinister into the fact that no public announcement has been made yet. It's only been about 3 weeks since the fire.

Judy

P.S. to Cheng and Bill - I didn't think you guys were fighting.:) I thought you were discussing.

 

That's what my wife calls it, too:p

 

Even if the crew had you send down money for the drinks from crew bar, you would have been getting a bargain. And even at discount prices, crew bar is usually one of the largest sources of onboard revenue on a ship.

 

On one of these threads (too lazy to look it up), a former crewmember from the Grandeur stated that the crew mess, galley, and I believe open deck area were down there, either above or below the mooring deck (I think it was below). Some ships have the crew open deck up high by the stack, some aft.

 

The mooring deck does not have a lot of room on it, when you consider all the winches, and the storage for the lines, which are all on deck when at sea. This is why mooring areas are some of the most dangerous areas for crew, as you are doing a dangerous job in a relatively confined space. You're right, if the crew open deck was below the mooring station, they would not have been up there, since the open deck would have tables, chairs, etc.

 

As I've said in previous posts on this topic, if the crew mess is in this area, then the crew galley is not far behind, and the galley exhaust fans would be near by, and probably exhausting out the aft end. Heat sensors are used where the possibility of low smoke fires are likely (engine rooms, laundry exhaust duct, and galley exhaust ducts). However, if a galley fan were to catch fire, it most likely would have been far from the heat sensors in the duct (mounted close to the galley where the grease accumulates), and would have not produced any amount of smoke. The smoke detectors on the mooring deck would not pick up this kind of fire for quite a while, similarly with a winch electrical fire. With electrical fires, especially given high voltage as ships use, the smell of an electrical fire will be the first indication, and will normally be sensed quite a distance away.

 

You're right, there's nothing sinister in no report or announcement being made. As I've said, the Splendor fire was known to all and sundry, and yet no official cause has been mentioned. No one clamors about that, so I think RCI is just waiting until they absolutely have to issue a statement.

 

Bill, I guess that's why there are so many (personally irritating) "lol"'s.

[3acrewood]

I have been searching, but not able to find any updates. Husband and I are sailing on July 12 to Bermuda. I hope if ship is not ready they give us at least 2-weeks notice so we can try and plan a vacation to somewhere else. Not knowing makes me nervous.

[dixieva]

I'm finding this silence on the cause of the fire (which I believe they know by now) and the progress of the repairs to be troubling.

 

Why in the world don't they give some sort of report, especially so that those of you who have cruises booked in the near future have some sort of idea what's happening.

[chengkp75]

I'm finding this silence on the cause of the fire (which I believe they know by now) and the progress of the repairs to be troubling.

 

Why in the world don't they give some sort of report, especially so that those of you who have cruises booked in the near future have some sort of idea what's happening.

 

In this case, usually no news is good news. If they are not commenting on the progress of repairs, that means they are on schedule. Perhaps they believe the statement regarding the electrical nature of the fire, made early on, to be sufficient. Does anyone really (except marine engineers like me) want to know that the DC electromagnetic coil for the port aft mooring winch brake failed, overheating and causing a fire? Or is electrical fire enough?

[grand isle joe]

.....I suspect the crew were doing "flaming shots" and it got out of hand.......now that was a hot party.......:eek:

[beachnative]

I'm finding this silence on the cause of the fire (which I believe they know by now) and the progress of the repairs to be troubling.

 

Why in the world don't they give some sort of report, especially so that those of you who have cruises booked in the near future have some sort of idea what's happening.

 

I don't understand why someone would find it "troubling" that there has not been a press release with specific information as to the cause of the fire. If this were a "conspiracy movie" not releasing the info would certainly be part of the story line. But this is real life and Royal Caribbean is busy repairing the Grandeur, most likely knows the cause, and has sent out edicts to other ships in the fleet.

 

We are booked on the first cruise out of dry dock, July 12 and consider no news to be good news and feel confident that we will be sailing as schedule. Maybe I trust Royal Caribbean too much. I believe that they are doing all that they can to ensure that the Grandeur is ready for her July 12 cruise and the rest of the ships have taken appropriate measures to ensure, as much as possible, that this event does not happen again.

 

I really do enjoy conspiracy movies but in almost all of them the bad guys get caught. I doubt that Royal Caribbean will make that error.

 

AND...as helpful as Cruise Critic is, whatever Royal Caribbean releases will generate cries of "cover up" from the usual uniformed and uneducated "experts". (not referring to you chengkp75) They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, so why not wait until all the dust settles and a shinny Grandeur is sailing before releasing information.

[reallyitsmema]

I don't understand why someone would find it "troubling" that there has not been a press release with specific information as to the cause of the fire. If this were a "conspiracy movie" not releasing the info would certainly be part of the story line. But this is real life and Royal Caribbean is busy repairing the Grandeur, most likely knows the cause, and has sent out edicts to other ships in the fleet.

 

We are booked on the first cruise out of dry dock, July 12 and consider no news to be good news and feel confident that we will be sailing as schedule. Maybe I trust Royal Caribbean too much. I believe that they are doing all that they can to ensure that the Grandeur is ready for her July 12 cruise and the rest of the ships have taken appropriate measures to ensure, as much as possible, that this event does not happen again.

 

I really do enjoy conspiracy movies but in almost all of them the bad guys get caught. I doubt that Royal Caribbean will make that error.

 

AND...as helpful as Cruise Critic is, whatever Royal Caribbean releases will generate cries of "cover up" from the usual uniformed and uneducated "experts". (not referring to you chengkp75) They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, so why not wait until all the dust settles and a shinny Grandeur is sailing before releasing information.

Did you mean uninformed? Don't think you meant uniformed.

[beachnative]

Did you mean uninformed? Don't think you meant uniformed.

 

That's funny!!! :):) You are absolutely correct. :)

[Loyal2RCCL]

Not an endorsement of the BBQ fire theory, but the crew does get pretty tired of the ship's food.

 

That's because the food they serve the crew is always the same and is total crap.

[dixieva]

I'm certainly not saying I think there is a "conspiracy" to keep information from the public. Sorry if I gave that inpression. I think it is extremely strange that there has been no information available. Seems to me the least RCI should be doing is keeping passengers on upcoming cruises up to date with what's happening.

 

I salute you who have a cruise booked in a couple of weeks if you are not concerned. I know I would be very worried. But that's just me.

[GWRNigel]

I was on the IOS earlier this month and heard about the BBQ as cause of fire.

[foxgoodrich]

In this case, usually no news is good news. If they are not commenting on the progress of repairs, that means they are on schedule. Perhaps they believe the statement regarding the electrical nature of the fire, made early on, to be sufficient. Does anyone really (except marine engineers like me) want to know that the DC electromagnetic coil for the port aft mooring winch brake failed, overheating and causing a fire? Or is electrical fire enough?

 

"Electrical Fire," as originally stated by that RC rep for the Baltimore TV station weeks ago should really be enough. But we live in such an age of instant gratification that we've become accustomed to having all the gory details accessible because they're flung at us constantly by the press. (just think about the Jodi Arias case) That's just not happening here.

 

I guess we want to see the "twenty-seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one." And then we want Officer Obie, or his Bahamian counterpart, to explain what happened and tell us whose fault it is and who has to pick up the garbage. (Sorry...I briefly went to 'Alice's Restaurant' in my head....:o)

 

I do think that RC should officially offer some info, a report on the progress of repairs, and reassurance to the passengers who will be back on Grandeur in July. Those are the folks who probably have the greatest need for information, to confirm their travel and vacation dates for sure, but even more important, to reassure themselves that what happened in May won't happen again.

 

Judy

[chengkp75]

"Electrical Fire," as originally stated by that RC rep for the Baltimore TV station weeks ago should really be enough. But we live in such an age of instant gratification that we've become accustomed to having all the gory details accessible because they're flung at us constantly by the press. (just think about the Jodi Arias case) That's just not happening here.

 

I guess we want to see the "twenty-seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one." And then we want Officer Obie, or his Bahamian counterpart, to explain what happened and tell us whose fault it is and who has to pick up the garbage. (Sorry...I briefly went to 'Alice's Restaurant' in my head....:o)

 

I do think that RC should officially offer some info, a report on the progress of repairs, and reassurance to the passengers who will be back on Grandeur in July. Those are the folks who probably have the greatest need for information, to confirm their travel and vacation dates for sure, but even more important, to reassure themselves that what happened in May won't happen again.

 

Judy

 

Dating yourself with the Alice's Restaurant reference. I also liked the 8x10 color glossy photos, but I'm older than dirt.:p

 

If the fire was an electrical fire, can RCI reassure people that it won't happen again? Nope. There are no guarantees in this life, and any piece of equipment can fail at any time.

[grand isle joe]

"Electrical Fire," as originally stated by that RC rep for the Baltimore TV station weeks ago should really be enough. But we live in such an age of instant gratification that we've become accustomed to having all the gory details accessible because they're flung at us constantly by the press. (just think about the Jodi Arias case) That's just not happening here.

 

 

 

 

Judy

 

........PLEASE.....PLEASE......PLEASE.......Don't tell Nancy Grace about this conspiracy......I couldn't take it on T.V........Maybe Dr.Drew could interview the crew members and see if they have PSD......:eek::eek::eek:........All those cable channels I pay for and it is chock full of "boobs" like these.......:eek:

[beachnative]

I'm certainly not saying I think there is a "conspiracy" to keep information from the public. Sorry if I gave that inpression. I think it is extremely strange that there has been no information available. Seems to me the least RCI should be doing is keeping passengers on upcoming cruises up to date with what's happening.

 

I salute you who have a cruise booked in a couple of weeks if you are not concerned. I know I would be very worried. But that's just me.

 

 

I truly don't mean to trite, but what is there to be "very worried" about? If you were booked for July 12 you are either going on a cruise or not going on a cruise. We, who in Virginia as you and I do, have no flight reservations to cancel, if we have booked a pre-cruise night in a hotel it can be canceled at the last minute, and vacation time can be rescheduled (maybe).

 

Now, IF the July 12 cruise is canceled and people who have purchased flights are NOT reimbursed for the penalty fee, that is cause for major displeasure.

 

I expect that if the cruise is canceled we will be given a notice at least a week prior and that we will be given the same offer that the cruisers on the other 6 canceled cruises received.

 

(To be perfectly honest, the other half of this pair thinks more like you do.:))

[foxgoodrich]

Dating yourself with the Alice's Restaurant reference. I also liked the 8x10 color glossy photos, but I'm older than dirt.:p

Seems like 27 of those glossies would be just the right number to prove the case.:D Yeah...older than dirt here too.

 

If the fire was an electrical fire, can RCI reassure people that it won't happen again? Nope. There are no guarantees in this life, and any piece of equipment can fail at any time.

 

And that makes for a difficult PR job. The randomness of equipment failure, if that's what it was, is hard to address.

Judy

[foxgoodrich]

........PLEASE.....PLEASE......PLEASE.......Don't tell Nancy Grace about this conspiracy......I couldn't take it on T.V........Maybe Dr.Drew could interview the crew members and see if they have PSD......:eek::eek::eek:........All those cable channels I pay for and it is chock full of "boobs" like these.......:eek:

 

Don't worry, Joe! The mere thought of Nancy Grace droning on and on about this...well it kind of makes me throw up a little in my mouth.:eek: I'm absolutely not going to tell her. (Actually, she should do the Costa Concordia instead since it has more shock value.)

 

But you are so right! It's all those 'boobs' who bombard us with all the gory details, real or imagined. So when we don't get the details, we wonder why. And conspiracy theories are such fun, aren't they?:eek:

Judy

[grand isle joe]

Don't worry, Joe! The mere thought of Nancy Grace droning on and on about this...well it kind of makes me throw up a little in my mouth.:eek: I'm absolutely not going to tell her. (Actually, she should do the Costa Concordia instead since it has more shock value.)

 

But you are so right! It's all those 'boobs' who bombard us with all the gory details, real or imagined. So when we don't get the details, we wonder why. And conspiracy theories are such fun, aren't they?:eek:

Judy

 

 

......Oh Thank you Judy and Buz,,I owe you a drink,,,,now if we can keep them all away it would be great. I can see it now......Dr. Oz goes undercover to see what the caloric intake was of those suspected crew members who are accused of sabotage onboard a cruise ship. "A grease fire can KILL" coming up next!..........:eek::eek:

[dixieva]

I truly don't mean to trite, but what is there to be "very worried" about? If you were booked for July 12 you are either going on a cruise or not going on a cruise. We, who in Virginia as you and I do, have no flight reservations to cancel, if we have booked a pre-cruise night in a hotel it can be canceled at the last minute, and vacation time can be rescheduled (maybe).

 

Now, IF the July 12 cruise is canceled and people who have purchased flights are NOT reimbursed for the penalty fee, that is cause for major displeasure.

 

I expect that if the cruise is canceled we will be given a notice at least a week prior and that we will be given the same offer that the cruisers on the other 6 canceled cruises received.

 

(To be perfectly honest, the other half of this pair thinks more like you do.:))

 

 

Well, for us it would be a problem if we were cruising in July and the ship was not ready to sail. My daughter cannot just reschedule her vacation. If she doesn't cancel at least two weeks before then she eats that vacation time. I'm sure she's not the only one whose job requires her to sign up for vacation months in advance and you're pretty much stuck with it.

 

Just sayin' that I think it would be nice for RCI to make some sort of statement.

 

We're not booked on Grandeur until next year so I'm not worried about that one---- yet:D.