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thefish

taking ones own drink on board

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Originally Posted by Host Cecilia

This does seem beaten to death when it clearly states the policy in the ticket contract. If someone embarks and doesn't know about the policy, it's their fault for not reading the ticket contract. If anyone doesn't like NCL's rules, they can cruise with another line that doesn't care. Seems like a simple solution to me. It's not petty for NCL to enforce their own rules. And it doesn't seem to be affecting bookings on their ships. For the life of me I can't figure out why this issue is so important to so many people.

 

 

 

Host Cecilia

 

I could agree with you except for a couple of points. First of all NCL like other lines push their cruises hard via media advertisements. I have yet to see an advertisement stating what a ticket contract is, let along what is in it. The consumer watches these advertisements and calls the listed number and purchases the cruise. By my experience, I have never been informed by any cruise line rep or TA about the fine print in the "ticket contract" or documents. You are usually informed about cruise insurance and the amount of information you get about this is largely dependent on the amount of questions you ask. By the time you get your cruise documents with the additional information you have already paid for and are committed to the cruise. There are still many that do not have online access to check Cruisecritic or NCL's website. There are still many that are not seasoned cruisers or are familiar with the everchanging liquor policies of the cruise lines.

 

For this reason, for the life of me, I can't understand why people keep saying it's in your cruise docs or ticket contract so you don't have a right to complain. What may seem to some that this horse is being beat to death may be just others trying to vent their frustration, exercising the critic option of Cruisecritic. I have purchased the bar set up from NCL but may not agree about the high price NCL charges for it. Have I given up my right to complain even though I have already paid for it?

 

You have a choice, speak up and keep speaking up and thus hope for change or go quietly into the night.

 

My other point is more of a concern. After 9/11, current taxpayers and definitely future taxpayers have been asked to take on a bigger financial burden to make our country safer. We have troops overseas sacrificing their young lives for this purpose. If NCL or anyone else is using personnel or resources set aside to prevent terrorism to enhance enforcement their liquor policy I am, and have a right to be, pissed.

 

I would also like to recognize the posters to this now seems to be a moved thread who were not complaining but just stating that they still intend to smuggle, talking about policy's (not laws) on other ships and the best way to smuggle.

 

Where did it go Celia?

 

thanks.

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I would also like to recognize the posters to this now seems to be a moved thread who were not complaining but just stating that they still intend to smuggle, talking about policy's (not laws) on other ships and the best way to smuggle.

 

Where did it go Celia?

 

thanks.

 

Just read a thread on Page 2 of this board called Smuggling booze on NCL - what is more embarrasing? etc. etc..It will probably be on Page 3 or 4 tomorrow..

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You can say the same thing about the contract of carriage for airplanes, trains etc- common carriers in general. On airplanes all they have to do is make it available at the counter...how about rental cars? Do the ads contain the limitations.....checking bottles which may contain flammable liquid is ok with me--its the reason why they sometimes check the seals on water or soda or make you drink from an open bottle..

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Thank you smeyer418. Good point. I know it used to be ok to transport on a bottle of liquor on board an airplane (law) but the airlines would not let you drink it (airline policy) even though some would bring out a hip flask and sneak a drink. I suspect that if the airplane flight was 11 days then a pretty big flask would be required. Perhaps federal laws since then have excluded bringing liquor bottles on board planes (law)? I haven't tried. A bottle of flammable liquid is much more dangerous on an airplane and I suspect that it would be pretty hard to sink a cruise ship with a bottle of cognac or two. The rules for what you can or can not take on an airplane are federal (laws) and deal with the airplanes safety. They do not or would not do this just to enforce an airline "policy". On a cruise ship I don't think there is any federal mandate to keep people from bringing on booze but I may be wrong. I don't think that federal employees manning the xray machines care a hoot if your bring in a bottle if it is not excluded by federal law. If it is, then we are talking about a criminal offence which I have not heard of on this board or otherwise. I will repeat myself, "If NCL or any cruise line is using xray equipment or personnel provided by us to protect ourselves from terrorists to enhance their "policy" about not bringing booze on board then this is wrong!” It’s a misuse of taxpayer money and equipment and federal personnel to do the cruise line’s job. I have no beef with the cruiseline taking bottles of liquor due to policy but to do it on their own dime when doing it.

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I know that there is a federal law that you have to obey the instructions of the air crew, I suspect but I am not sure that there is a similar for cruise ships. In any case a bottle of cognac used to start a fire could sink a ship but since you can get one by ordering it, I am not sure that this makes much safety sense. Look we all know there are stupid law/rules. Its illegal for an American to buy a Cuban cigar anywhere in the world. Its illegal to take 151 proof rum on a plane(as cargo or in the cabin) lighters are prohibited every where a plane(the French think this one is particular stupid--that it would be ok as cargo). I have a friend who used to do wine tastings but refuses to send expensive bottles of wine through a plane as baggage. I didn't know that he was prohibited from carrying them on board-since I always get my duty free on the plane. I have violated many if not all the above---not recently however(yeah-sure). NCL is entitled to make rules. You are entiltled to go to somewhere else who doesn't have them---

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If NCL or anyone else is using personnel or resources set aside to prevent terrorism to enhance enforcement their liquor policy I am, and have a right to be, pissed.

I'm sorry, but I must have missed something somewhere. Is this speculation, an assumption, or have I missed a post that should lead us to believe that this is the case?

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The original thread that the original post was supposed to be on went elsewhere as the post was being submitted. Waiting for hostcelia response to where it went. The keyword in your quote is "If". I have read on NCL threads, mainly the one that is missing at this time, that NCL in Seattle has been gathering up checked luggage that has possible liquor substance in them on embarkation’s and making passengers come down to where they are being held on the already cruising ship to claim the luggage and explain the suspicious containers. If it is found the containers contain liquor then they are held until the cruise is over. If they are using their own scanning equipment or luggage checkers to identify possible infractions to their "policy" then it's their right, and their dime. If they are using federal employees and agents and federal equipment to enforce their "policy" against bringing liquor on board their ships then this is entirely different. I hate to think the people and equipment that we have provided to stop terrorism is being preoccupied to catch someone with a bottle of vodka, for the cruise line, while someone with 20 pounds of explosive gets by. I don't think we are fighting terrorism, even sacrificing lives, so the cruise lines can confiscate grandma's gin. If someone is taking advantage of a serious situation for something this petty it is wrong,

 

Like I said the keyword is "If". One question is how are they coming up with the luggage with booze in them? I doubt if they are scanning them twice, again with their own limited xray, (time money) after the Federal Inspection prior to embarkation. I doubt that the agents would be too happy with someone going through the luggage after they have inspected them and even tagged them. Cruise personnel should not be in the restricted area of the Federal inspection area. Only inspection agents and supervisors should be there. Otherwise you could have Osama himself standing there saying, "Hey, that luggage looks clean to me." If NCL is taking advantage of this then this is not right.

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Thanks for the explanation. I personally do not know the answer to the IF question. You say that the x-ray stage is a "Federal Inspection". Is that part of your hypothetical or do you know that it's federally supervised?

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NCL is entitled to make rules. You are entiltled to go to somewhere else who doesn't have them---

 

 

smeyer418

 

Yes, I believe we all agree about this, though I can't say it is indeed refreshing to hear this once again. I know I must have trouble making my point, perhaps it's because it's on the top of my head.

 

I have followed NCL policies, I have ordered the costly bar set up. I don't see anywhere that I have said that NCL does not have the right to make rules and policy's.

 

gosh - thanks, it must be getting late and forgive me for being short.

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My other point is more of a concern. After 9/11, current taxpayers and definitely future taxpayers have been asked to take on a bigger financial burden to make our country safer. We have troops overseas sacrificing their young lives for this purpose. If NCL or anyone else is using personnel or resources set aside to prevent terrorism to enhance enforcement their liquor policy I am, and have a right to be, pissed.

 

JohnQ - my orignal statement out of my first attempt at posting concerning this apparent confusion.

 

You make a good point. It would seem that all transportation inspection requirements would be at least under the auspices of the TSA after 9/11. Who actually does the inspection? Who pays for the scanning equipment? The cruise lines? ICCL? Port Authority? It seems that the screeners would have to be familiar with what TSA would allow. It seems to me that since TSA handles inspection for airlines that they would also provide for the training, hiring and screening of the people who inspect luggage for cruise ships. I have sent an email to TSA and ICCL in an attempt to find out whom the luggage inspectors for cruiselines work for and who pays for their equipment.

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I could agree with you except for a couple of points. First of all NCL like other lines push their cruises hard via media advertisements. I have yet to see an advertisement stating what a ticket contract is, let along what is in it. The consumer watches these advertisements and calls the listed number and purchases the cruise. By my experience, I have never been informed by any cruise line rep or TA about the fine print in the "ticket contract" or documents. You are usually informed about cruise insurance and the amount of information you get about this is largely dependent on the amount of questions you ask. By the time you get your cruise documents with the additional information you have already paid for and are committed to the cruise. There are still many that do not have online access to check Cruisecritic or NCL's website. There are still many that are not seasoned cruisers or are familiar with the everchanging liquor policies of the cruise lines.
It's buyer beware. If you blindly agree to NCL's ticket/contract then you're not being a proactive consumer. I'm sorry if this disagrees with you but I don't sign contracts or agree to contracts without reading them. And you don't have to have a cruise booked and paid for before reading the rules NCL puts forward. It's in their brochures. And if your TA neglected to tell you the terms of your contract, I wouldn't use that TA anymore because he/she should have let you know the rules, etc.
For this reason, for the life of me, I can't understand why people keep saying it's in your cruise docs or ticket contract so you don't have a right to complain.
I don't believe anyone has told you that you don't have a right to complain. I don't, however, understand why people continue to repeat the same thing over and over again when the alcohol policy is clear in the brochure. But you can say you don't agree with it. I just don't think it needs to be said over and over.
What may seem to some that this horse is being beat to death may be just others trying to vent their frustration, exercising the critic option of Cruise critic.
Just as you've chosen to exercise the critic option of cruise critic to voice your displeasure about the alcohol policy. I've chosen to exercise my option of saying that I don't understnad why you're so upset when you agreed to the liquor policy when you paid for your cruise. I'm not saying you can't voice your displeasure. But I should be allowed to voice my opinion as well.
You have a choice, speak up and keep speaking up and thus hope for change or go quietly into the night.
You are so right and you should express your feelings to NCL. If enough people do, maybe they'll change their policy. Have you let NCL know how you feel about their liquor policy?
If NCL or anyone else is using personnel or resources set aside to prevent terrorism to enhance enforcement their liquor policy I am, and have a right to be, pissed.
Where does this come from? In what way did this even cross your mind and what proof do you have that this is happening? Enforcing a liquor policy in no way has anything to do with security measures and I think you've gone way far out on a limb to even make this assumption. NCL employees do not work for the department of homeland security and they don't provide security to the ports.

 

I want to reiterate again that I think you can be unhappy with NCL's liquor policy and you can say so. If you didn't know before you booked a cruise then you'll know for the future and you won't have to cruise NCL.

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quote

 

Where does this come from? In what way did this even cross your mind and what proof do you have that this is happening? Enforcing a liquor policy in no way has anything to do with security measures and I think you've gone way far out on a limb to even make this assumption. NCL employees do not work for the department of homeland security and they don't provide security to the ports.

 

You are right, perhaps a wild and crazy assumption to think federal employees inspected cruise line luggage using equipment provided by the government. For some reason I thought after 9/11 that TSA took over not only airline luggage inspection but also luggage inspection for cruise ships. Taking them to a secure area to xray and inspect them. This assumption must be wrong and I am now trying to get more information on how and who inspects cruise ship luggage. If you have any information about who and how this is done and how NCL determines that you have liquor in your checked luggage please share it with us. As you stated that enforcing the liquor policy in no way has anything to do with security measures and I agree it shouldn't and would be wrong if it did happen as I stated. I did not say NCL employees work for homeland security.

 

I do feel that people have the right to complain as you do, and I'm sure you get tired of hearing the same old spill. But by posters making the same point over and over again that if you don't like the policy you can cruise elsewhere seems a little mean spirited and makes them feel like they have no right to complain. I think by complaining on this board about the liquor policy is one tool where they may be able to affect change. Personally I don't much care about NCLs liquor policy one way or another but I still think they can and should complain even if there are hundreds of threads and a thousands of posts over this subject (just like every other subject). It might be helpful also to state where these complainers can complain to NCL about the liquor policy. The only number that I have seen on these boards for complaints are for after the cruise. Perhaps this will help get them off the boards.

 

 

As for my queston about the previous thread. Que Paso?

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I think I tried to explain my logic on why I thought NCL could be using government personell and equipment to enforce their liquor bottle policy.

The "IF" statement I used seem to upset quit a few. I believe it started with some posts on what seems a now defunct thread.

 

1. Some posts on a now seemingly defunct thread were about people who had to go to a room on the ship to claim their luggage because NCL had detected suspected alcohol containers in their luggage. I assume I read this. Perhaps I didn’t.

2. Because physically opening and inspecting a luggage contents by NCL without the owner present and the sheer number of bags to be loaded and searched by hand on embarkation I doubt that this was done. I do not recall anyone on the posts complaining about NCL going through their bags.

3. Outside of a divining rod or calling psychic hotline I am once again assuming that NCL used a xray machine to sort out the questionable luggage that might contain liquor.

4. I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that bags are Xrayed prior to loading on the ship for guns and bombs as they do prior to flying, to me this seems logical.

5. I would think that they would be using xray and detection devices especially made for detecting bombs and that the people operating these devices would be trained to use them. I may be assuming wrongly that these people are government employees or have been trained by the government and that the government provides the xray devices. I was thinking that they would be like the airport TSA luggage check. Perhaps this was logical but turns out to not be the case.

6. “IF” the cruise line is not using their own personnel or their own xray machine to find these liquor bottles and using equipment and personnel provided to help stop terrorism then it is wrong and I still believe so.

 

I am trying to get information on how NCL looks for liquor bottles in checked luggage, which would answer this question.

 

Woohoo, I think I found something searching on the TSA site – Passenger Vessels - Cruise line travel tips. I found this in some of their PDF training files.

 

First a Security guard matches passenger with luggage

 

2. After the luggage is taken over ty the ships personnel it is x-rayed using a high speed xray equipment.

 

So it seems that the cruise luggage is not handled and x-rayed by government employees at all and that NCL probably does use this x-ray equipment to weed out luggage with liquor bottles in them. I still have an Email into TSA and ICCL but, by this information I am sure the cruise lines must also puchase the x-ray systems plus handle all the luggage scanning. The TSA looks like it is expecting the cruise line or ICCL to handle the training, bomb finding and such. So it looks like NCL is more a part of Homeland Security than I had imagined. This may not give a warm a fuzzy fealing but it's them doing the scanning so they can sort out the liquor luggage even if people think it sucks.

 

thank you johnql

 

and I'm sorry I ruffled some feathers

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So it seems that the cruise luggage is not handled and x-rayed by government employees at all and that NCL probably does use this x-ray equipment to weed out luggage with liquor bottles in them. I still have an Email into TSA and ICCL but, by this information I am sure the cruise lines must also puchase the x-ray systems plus handle all the luggage scanning. The TSA looks like it is expecting the cruise line or ICCL to handle the training, bomb finding and such. So it looks like NCL is more a part of Homeland Security than I had imagined. This may not give a warm a fuzzy fealing but it's them doing the scanning so they can sort out the liquor luggage even if people think it sucks.

 

thank you johnql[/color]

 

and I'm sorry I ruffled some feathers

 

 

Since they have to scan every bag one way to offset the extreme cost of providing security is too find liquor.

 

Prior to 9/11 bring your own was no issue since there was no real way to enforce the rules. This is just one other thing that has changed.

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Sorry dudes and dudettes. I am on a roll. Received an email.

 

Dear Mr. Fisher,

 

The answer to your question depends upon who is responsible for the operations inside the passenger ship terminal, it varies from port to port. In some instances it is the cruise ship operator and in others it is the port, port authority or terminal operator. These issues are worked out between the cruise line company and the port. In addition, for some cases the cruise line could be responsible for the screeners and security personnel in the terminal, but the equipment belongs to the port.

 

For an answer to your question for a particular port, you will have to contact that port directly.

 

Regards,

Stanford W. Deno

Director of Operations

International Council of Cruise Lines

 

 

Who's on first depends on just where first base is. ;)

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You are right, perhaps a wild and crazy assumption to think federal employees inspected cruise line luggage using equipment provided by the government. For some reason I thought after 9/11 that TSA took over not only airline luggage inspection but also luggage inspection for cruise ships. Taking them to a secure area to xray and inspect them. This assumption must be wrong and I am now trying to get more information on how and who inspects cruise ship luggage. If you have any information about who and how this is done and how NCL determines that you have liquor in your checked luggage please share it with us. As you stated that enforcing the liquor policy in no way has anything to do with security measures and I agree it shouldn't and would be wrong if it did happen as I stated. I did not say NCL employees work for homeland security.
I've cruised five times since 9/11 and I've never seen a federal employee scanning bags at the port. The ports I've sailed out if since 9/11 are Vancouver, Miami, Singapore, Buenas Aires and Port Canaveral. And if you follow homeland security briefings on national news channels, port security is one of the biggest areas where things aren't getting taken care of. I don't, however, think that because NCL scans for alcohol that it's taking away from security to the passengers. I would assume that if a screener saw the outline of a gun, etc. it would be brought to the attention of someone.
I do feel that people have the right to complain as you do, and I'm sure you get tired of hearing the same old spill. But by posters making the same point over and over again that if you don't like the policy you can cruise elsewhere seems a little mean spirited and makes them feel like they have no right to complain.
I don't believe it's mean spirited to say that if you don't like the way a company does business that you have other options. It's true. I would also contend that doing nothing but complaining about something would make me upset all the time. I'd search for a way out of the situation and in this case, it's to cruise with someone else. But that's just me. Why beat my head up against a wall over and over expecting a different result?
I think by complaining on this board about the liquor policy is one tool where they may be able to affect change.
I don't think this is correct. This board isn't a direct channel to NCL. Going directly to NCL would be the absolute best way to try and make changes to a policy you don't agree with. However, in the course of giving your opinion or commenting on what someone else says, you can express how you feel. But this board isn't the main outlet you should use for change to a cruiseline policy. But I wholeheartedly agree that if you don't like a policy put in place by the cruise line, you should express your opinion to the people that are involved in making changes and in the end maybe things will change.

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I'm glad we resolved the question as to who oversees the baggage inspection.

 

As for the more general issue concerning NCL's liquor policy, I personally have no problem with their current rules. But I don't feel all that strongly about it because it doesn't really affect me all that much. I'm not much of a drinker and would never attempt to smuggle alcohol onboard while knowing that it breaks NCL's rules.

 

I do agree with those who say that if you feel strongly about wanting the rule changed, you need to express that sentiment to the cruise lines (in this case, NCL). Write them, send them emails, express your opinion in the end-of-cruise comment form - lobby them in every conceivable way. That's your right.

 

Finally, anybody who does opt to smuggle alcohol and ends up getting caught - well, you need to take your medicine with no complaints. In other words, if the alcohol is confiscated and held until the last night, that's the way it goes. And if being caught smuggling somehow embarrasses you, too bad.

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They are at Port Canavarel; I am almost sure! And at Port Everglades too, I am pretty sure; security is pretty beefed up in both places; I am stating this based on 2 cruises in the last year of so! This was Celebrity and Disney.

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What if a scanner was developed that could detect with 98% accuracy alcoholic beverages carried in any kind of container checked or carryon? Advanced features to avoid false positives from medicine, cologne, etc. would make this technology very desirable to improve the efficiency and safety of the embarkation process across the board.

 

Methinks this would be a smash hit. As cruisers, what do you think? Feel free to boo or praise the idea as always. :p

 

Cheers,

 

-Norman

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Are you trying to discourage the thousands of cruisers who happily take up the challenge of sneaking their alcohol on board ? This is one of the last great challenges left.

The thrill of victory.............the agony of defeat !

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Sorry I am new at this and only just finished reading the thread on the liquor policy. I have a question. When we travel we usually like to buy different or unusual liquors or wines to bring home with us. Having never cruised before we are wondering are you allowed to purchase liquor while on shore excursions and bring back onto to the boat?:confused: It appears that one can obviously purchase as much booze as wanted while on the boat-this eliminates my wondering if the reason for not allowing initially to bring on was to somehow monitor potential drunks who might fall overboard or become unruly and disruptive. So I am to believe that a real reason is basically to make money by having you purchase on board. The airlines seem to do it to monitor behavior on the planes. Planes seem different than boats in reasons why you can't take on board and that makes sense to me. So if you have a special bottle of wine or champagne that you had hoped to bring on board for a celebration , no dice. Oh well , as stated it is their boat and their right to make the rules. The prices for wine etc. seemed reasonable and heck you're on vacation anyway. That's why we have credit cards...:p

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Having never cruised before we are wondering are you allowed to purchase liquor while on shore excursions and bring back onto to the boat?:confused:

Yes, but it may be taken away from you upon embarkation and placed in temporary storage. It will then be returned to you on the last night of the cruise. That said, many people buy alcohol while on shore and their purchases often go undetected while reboarding.

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OK, let me clarify some things that have popped into my head while reading this thread:

 

 

The luggage being scanned started after 9/11 in an effort to combat terrorism. The scanners, no matter who they work for, are looking for bombs, knives, guns, and other potentially hazardous material. Prior to 9/11 it was bomb-sniffing dogs (still being used in conjunction with the x-ray machines). Dafish was wondering whether these machines and people (who were used and employed to help combat terrorism) were being utilized by NCL and other cruise lines to detect alcohol. Dafish, the answer is yes and no. No, they do not use these machines JUST for alcohol. It is simply that alcohol has been added to the list of contraband to look for. I've heard many people talk about their experiences of being "caught." And, I've heard of many people who made it through undetected. The point is that the operators are trained to spot certain things. It's just that aclohol is now one of those things. It isn't that the machines that our taxes paid for are being used for alcohol detection ONLY. It's alcohol detection IN ADDITION TO bombs, etc.

 

Now about NCL's aclohol policy: First of all, has anyone actually compared the price of drinks on NCL vs. other cruise lines? I paid $4.50 for a mixed drink (not rail, top shelf) on the Dawn. I paid $6.50 for that same drink on Royal Caribbean. The simple economics of it all is this: the more people sneak booze on board, the higher the price goes for on-board drinks. So, NCL began enforcing its policy. That brought the price DOWN which benefits all of us. And, as far as the in-cabin bar setup is concerned: We ordered it for our Dawn cruise last month and it was well worth the money. Is it more than in a liquor store on land? Yes (in most places). But, ounce for ounce, it still ended up being far less than if we had bought those drinks individually. On a side note: in the county where I used to live, the price for a liter bottle of Tangerey is MORE than the price of one on-board the Dawn for the bar setup. So, we ended up spending less than if we had stayed on land :D

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