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[FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="3"]Dear Timeforme,

We operate our vessels in compliance with US alcohol consumption laws – all guests must be 21 years or older to consumer alcoholic beverages.

Graham[/SIZE][/FONT]
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Everyone knows why the age limit is in place, the original poster eluded to it in their question. The point was why do you choose to operate rather bizarre (for Europeans) US laws on a European based vessel.

Over the years we have seen a number of incidents where people who have been drinking for 2 - 3 years are shocked that they suddenly can't enjoy a beer or a glass of wine. Unless you are a seasoned cruiser with American owned companies it wouldn't even occur to you that a problem might arise. I remember one instance where a couple on their Honymoon had a very rude awakening!

I think your policy alienates a number of family groups which have older (18-21) year old members. No one is suggesting you turn the ship into an alcohol fueled riot of youth, but your policy is in contrast to the laws and experiences within Europe. Particularly when parents or older guardians are on board I would suggest you might want to look again as the major American players have done already.

It's worth remembering that many Europeans will have experienced a glass of wine whilst dining with their parents from as young as 14.

Henry :) Edited by Able Seaman H
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Since Mr. Sadler has responded, I assume this is open for discussion. I have just a couple of comments. Firstly, Regent ships are not European based. While I do not disagree with your comments regarding alcohol laws, Regent does not market to the 18-21 age group. Perhaps advertisements in Europe should be clearer about the drinking age on board.
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[quote name='Travelcat2']Since Mr. Sadler has responded, I assume this is open for discussion. I have just a couple of comments. Firstly, Regent ships are not European based. While I do not disagree with your comments regarding alcohol laws, Regent does not market to the 18-21 age group. Perhaps advertisements in Europe should be clearer about the drinking age on board.[/quote]

Seven Seas Mariner and Voyager are currently based in and around Europe. I appreciate there are odd forays into the Middle East but essentially they are European based ships at the moment.

As of today the RSS website is currently leading with a page Splash reminding customers of cheap "kids fares". I think a good many cruises will be taken by parents who have attained financial stability over the years, who seek out the finer things in life and who now have adult children with whom they would like to spend some quality time. Over the past 2 years I have booked 50 or 60 fellow family members onto just such a cruise. They are perfect for the purpose but it all falls down when 18, 19 and 20 year olds (of which we have 5 on an up coming 20 person cruise booked for August 2014) are barred from enjoying a drink. RSS were not in the running specifically for this policy.

I'm not going to argue the morality of sending men off to battle yet begrudging them an ice cold beer at the end of the day. The fact is that within the region that these ships are touring the legal drinking age is between 16 and 18 years old.

Ignoring countries where the bulk of the population would be prohibited through religion it is only the US and a small handful of countries where, if you being honest the law is flaunted to such an extent it may as well not exist, that extend it over 18. The US is the most draconian at 21.

Ultimately it doesn't affect me directly as it has been some years since I was last asked for ID :)


Henry :)
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[quote name='Able Seaman H']Seven Seas Mariner and Voyager are currently based in and around Europe. I appreciate there are odd forays into the Middle East but essentially they are European based ships at the moment.

As of today the RSS website is currently leading with a page Splash reminding customers of cheap "kids fares". I think a good many cruises will be taken by parents who have attained financial stability over the years, who seek out the finer things in life and who now have adult children with whom they would like to spend some quality time. Over the past 2 years I have booked 50 or 60 fellow family members onto just such a cruise. They are perfect for the purpose but it all falls down when 18, 19 and 20 year olds (of which we have 5 on an up coming 20 person cruise booked for August 2014) are barred from enjoying a drink. RSS were not in the running specifically for this policy.

I'm not going to argue the morality of sending men off to battle yet begrudging them an ice cold beer at the end of the day. The fact is that within the region that these ships are touring the legal drinking age is between 16 and 18 years old.

Ignoring countries where the bulk of the population would be prohibited through religion it is only the US and a small handful of countries where, if you being honest the law is flaunted to such an extent it may as well not exist, that extend it over 18. The US is the most draconian at 21.

Ultimately it doesn't affect me directly as it has been some years since I was last asked for ID :)


Henry :)[/QUOTE]

Thank you for providing additional information. I am quite surprised (shocked) that Regent is advertising cheap kids fares in Europe. Are they for summer of 2014? I notice that your cruise will be during the summer. It is unusual to see "kids" (under 18) on Regent cruises except during the summer months or Christmas holidays.

I could not agree with you more about young adults going to war but cannot have a drink in the U.S. If it were up to me, people in the armed services would be exempt from such laws. However, IMO, the atmosphere on Regent would change dramatically if it started attracting younger crowds. Unfortunately, having an "open bar" does not work well with young people in the U.S. I know this is a generality but when you look at ships like Carnival with a young demographic, young people are ending up sick, very drunk and even falling off the ship killing themselves because of their alcohol consumption.

Young people in many countries are raised drinking wine. I would guess that the majority of young people raised in that environment drink more responsibly. I cannot imagine what would happen if 18 year olds were suddenly allowed to drink (legally) in the U.S. There would be some who have been raised to abide by laws (not drinking and driving for instance), but a large percentage would add drinking and driving to the already illegal texting and driving. Too many young people are being killed by alcohol. Here are a couple of facts (statistics are based on U.S. drivers):

• One person is killed every half-hour due to drunk driving
• Each year approximately 16,000 are killed in alcohol related crashes
• Alcohol is a factor in almost half of all traffic fatalities
• Every other minute a person is seriously injured in an alcohol related crash

Sorry -- I am getting off track but want to share some of the concerns of parents in the U.S. that are not allowed by law to give a drink of alcohol to their own child under the age of 21. The U.K. is years ahead of the U.S. in terms of responsible alcohol education and consumption.

In any event, although the major luxury cruise lines (Regent, Seabourn, Silversea and Crystal) visit your part of the world during the summer, I believe that all of them have the rule that you may be 21 or over to drink or gamble. On Silversea, if there are children (under 21) in the cabin, an "adult" (over 21) must be staying in the same cabin.

As far as I know, Regent (whose corporate offices are in Miami), do not have a choice....... 21 is the minimum drinking age in the U.S. Still wish there were a way for people in the armed forces to be able to drink (responsibly) anywhere they are in the world:)
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Royal Caribbean have reduced the drinking age to 18 for Beer and Wine when operating in Europe.

That seems to work well.

I think all of the younger adults on a Regent cruise would be part of a larger family party. Where trouble arises it is usually groups of younger individuals on their own.

Ultimately I think the rules will have to be changed.

Henry :)
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While it is good for Europeans that Royal Caribbean has been able to change the drinking age (no clue how they accomplished that), don't hold your breath for any luxury cruise line to follow suit. As long as cruise lines are in compliance with US alcohol consumption laws, this will not happen. So, are you booking Royal Caribbean for your family?

Thank you for a good and fair debate!
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Well, of course Graham says that the line operates under US laws

Able Seaman (Henry), as I remember, there were a very few years when the drinking age in the US did go down to 18, same time the voting age did back in the 70's, and many or most states changed their laws to lower the drinking age. The "draft" to serve in the armed service was ALWAYS 18, just not the vote. The rate of highway accidents and deaths due to alcohol among the younger people surged.

I forget how it changed back then, something about highway funds being withheld if the drinking laws were not lowered again, some federal law, I'm sure. I know I was in the restaurant business at the time, and it did not last long. Tied to lowering speed limits on highways to 55.

But then, no one is driving when they are on a ship, wherever they are. Not sure why this applies in Europe, but it sure would coming or going from an American port.

lol, I remember cruising on Regent to Alaska with my sons who were in their early twenties, and they could get into trouble all by themselves. Well, not enough to bother anyone, but enough to bother me! Thank god they are all married now and the children wear them out at the end of the day and I don't worry anymore! Edited by jhp
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  • 2 weeks later...
When our children were ages 18-20 and we wanted to cruise outside of the US, we usually sailed with Celebrity which like parent RCL allowed them to drink if we signed a waiver. They rarely drank more than a glass a wine at dinner, but it made for a much nicer evening as that is what we did at home. Equally important, it demonstrated to us that RCL/Celebrity had a much more diverse view of the cruising public rather than a myopic US-centred one.
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[quote name='commodoredave']When our children were ages 18-20 and we wanted to cruise outside of the US, we usually sailed with Celebrity which like parent RCL allowed them to drink if we signed a waiver. They rarely drank more than a glass a wine at dinner, but it made for a much nicer evening as that is what we did at home. Equally important, it demonstrated to us that RCL/Celebrity had a much more diverse view of the cruising public rather than a myopic US-centred one.[/QUOTE]

As you know, we agree more than we disagree. However, on this one we disagree. Regent is not marketing to parents with children between the ages of 18-20 and this could be the reason for their policy. Also, I suspect that RCL did not have included drinks. If I saw 18-20 year olds drinking on Regent, I would probably cancel all cruises. IMO, this is not the place to learn how to handle yourself with unlimited drinks.
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[quote name='Travelcat2']As you know, we agree more than we disagree. However, on this one we disagree. Regent is not marketing to parents with children between the ages of 18-20 and this could be the reason for their policy. Also, I suspect that RCL did not have included drinks. If I saw 18-20 year olds drinking on Regent, I would probably cancel all cruises. IMO, this is not the place to learn how to handle yourself with unlimited drinks.[/QUOTE]

First, how is a person able to tell the age of young pax by just looking at them? Second, if they were drinking on a Regent cruise, would it not be Regent's response ability to check IDs and police their drinking, not their fellow passengers?
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[quote name='Mjflowers']First, how is a person able to tell the age of young pax by just looking at them? Second, if they were drinking on a Regent cruise, would it not be Regent's response ability to check IDs and police their drinking, not their fellow passengers?[/QUOTE]

I suppose but that was not the point I was making!
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[quote name='Mjflowers']First, how is a person able to tell the age of young pax by just looking at them? Second, if they were drinking on a Regent cruise, would it not be Regent's response ability to check IDs and police their drinking, not their fellow passengers?[/QUOTE]

Mjflowers...of course you are right. As a privately owned company, I assume Regent has the complete right to set their own policies. The condescending application of the word "children" on this topic is where the problem lies. After age 21 it is clearly legal for passengers to (enjoy, taste, savor, imbibe, tipple, relax, have a cocktail) etc. which are simply fluffy words for drinking booze. The attitude mentioned seems to infer that it becomes plain old "drinking", if one is 18-20. Behavior when one is drinking does not always coincide with age. To cancel a cruise over this matter is odd. I wonder if the local recruiting stations in our country are now showing posters that say...the UNITED STATES MARINES are looking for a few good CHILDREN? We need children to defend your rights and borders, pilot our bombers, rescue our hostages, patrol the oceans and keep us safe from attacks by foreign countries. If it is 21 then it is 21 and that's the rule I guess. Regent will now need a roving bouncer to check ID.
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Let me reiterate my point. With all of the marketing Regent does, I have yet to see an ad/brochure targeting the 18-30 age group. The onboard experience, IMO, would not interest the majority (emphasis on majority) of young people in this age group. Regent does target children under 16 (I believe that is the top age for their Mariner Club activities) during the summer and school breaks.

The majority of cruise lines target younger generations and have a plethora of things to do - Regent does not.

[B]In the United States a privately owned company does not have the "complete right to set it's own policies". [/B]This is not a correct assumption. All companies in the U.S. must abide by Federal and State laws. The legal drinking age in the U.S. is 21. However, being a cruise line registered out of the U.S., the rules may be less set in stone. It is obvious that the majority of cruise lines that sail in and out of the U.S. have a drinking age of 21.

I would not be the only person cancelling cruises if the drinking age on Regent was 18 and the target audience changed to people under 30. I am not under 30 and have the choice to sail on cruise lines where the majority of passengers are a bit older.

People sail on different types of cruise lines for different reasons. Some love the party atmosphere -- others like the large ships that are like a small city -- and still there are some who prefer a quiet, serene atmospheres with no announcements over the loudspeaker, etc. Those of us living in the United States and Canada have so many choices right at our fingertips. You can even get benefits on Carnival Cruises when sailing on their other "brands" (Princess, Cunard, Seabourn and HAL for instance).

I want to address two other points posted by Fizzy:

1. The drinking age on Regent/Radisson has always been 21 and I do not believe they have ever needed "roving bouncers" to check I.D. The rules onboard Regent is no different than any place in the United States that sells alcohol.

2. Bringing the men and women in the Armed Forces into the discussion is sad. I have the highest respect for them and am involved with a group that helps disabled veterans when they return to the U.S. As I have learned, they need so much more than an alcoholic drink when they return home. On this Thanksgiving Day in the U.S., many (including myself) give thanks to the men and women who risk their lives every day for our country! Edited by Travelcat2
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[quote name='fizzy']You very clearly stated CHILDREN age 18-20. Reread your comment. It is only "sad" that when I brought up the armed forces aspect you tried to twist it. You can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]

No one should be angry on Thanksgiving. You seemed offended that I called the 18-20 age group "children" so, to be polite, I changed it to young people. In any case, this thread isn't about the Armed Forces and I found it sad to bring it into the discussion.

Hope you and your family have a Happy Thanksgiving! Edited by Travelcat2
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[quote name='Travelcat2']As you know, we agree more than we disagree. However, on this one we disagree. Regent is not marketing to parents with children between the ages of 18-20 and this could be the reason for their policy. Also, I suspect that RCL did not have included drinks. If I saw 18-20 year olds drinking on Regent, I would probably cancel all cruises. IMO, this is not the place to learn how to handle yourself with unlimited drinks.[/quote]

I wouldn't disagree with you if Regent had this policy for the reason you stated -- not marketing to parents who want to cruise with their kids.

What I do have an issue with is the application of US-liquor laws beyond cruises sailing to and from US ports. In this respect, I suspect if US laws allowed consumption of alcohol from age 18, that Regent would have the same policy. That is what I find troubling.
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[quote name='commodoredave']I wouldn't disagree with you if Regent had this policy for the reason you stated -- not marketing to parents who want to cruise with their kids.

What I do have an issue with is the application of US-liquor laws beyond cruises sailing to and from US ports. In this respect, I suspect if US laws allowed consumption of alcohol from age 18, that Regent would have the same policy. That is what I find troubling.[/QUOTE]

The fact that RCL can serve alcohol to people under the age of 21 really confuses the issue (IMO). Assume that RCL is owned by Celebrity based on your post (correct me if I'm wrong). It sounds like you are saying that all of the other cruise lines (Seabourn, Silversea, SeaDream Yacht Club, Princess, HAL, etc. etc. etc.) could lower their drinking age if they wanted to when they are not in U.S. waters. Is this correct? If so, their decision to uphold the drinking age to 21 and above is they want to - not because they have to. IF this is the case, why do you find it troubling?

Getting more difficult to post because our turkey is smelling so good! Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving:)

P.S. Just found this article regarding ship's liability as it relates to alcohol [url]http://www.cruiseshiplawyersblog.com/2012/02/liability-of-cruise-line-for-serving-alcohol-to-cruise-passengers.html[/url] Edited by Travelcat2
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While waiting for the turkey, I have done more research. Apparently NCL allows 18-20 year olds to drink wine and beer if the parents sign a waiver. So, this is a policy set by the cruise lines. Carnival did have a drinking age of 18 for a short time but went back to 21. An underage drinker died from alcohol poisoning on the Carnival Miracle in February, 2013 -- this could be one reason the minimum age is 21.

The OP feels that when your family is onboard, it is okay for 18-20 year olds to drink. This is probably based on his family and how they keep watch over their young adults. Quite frankly, I know of few parents who keep that close of a watch over their children that are 18 or over. It is not up to me to make laws for cruise ships but I can avoid sailing on ships with a high percentage of children and certainly any ship where 18 year olds are permitted to drink.
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[quote name='Responder']The only purpose of threads like this seems to be for the sole purpose of increasing one's post counts.[/QUOTE]

I think the only one who looks at post counts is you:eek: I'm only making this post because I question the relevancy lf your post to this thread? After all, posters were specifically requested to be polite and respectful - especially on a thread that is read by Mr. Sadler. Is your post only meant as a means of harassment? Perhaps we can enter the New Year with less of that kind of thing. Edited by Travelcat2
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[quote name='Travelcat2']I think the only one who looks at post counts is you:eek: I'm only making this post because I question the relevancy lf your post to this thread? After all, posters were specifically requested to be polite and respectful - especially on a thread that is read by Mr. Sadler. Is your post only meant as a means of harassment? Perhaps we can enter the New Year with less of that kind of thing.[/quote]

Because someone comments on the behavior of a poster on CC does not make the critic impolite or insulting.

My post was directed to the board in general. The criticism was simply about how many times posts regarding the very same subject is repeated.
Say what you have to say one time and move on. Repeated posts about the same thing only clutter up the board.
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