Bad Economy Or Too Many Ships?

[Wakepatrol]

[quote name='iancal']And that is exactly why they are giving away Caribbean cruises for such a low price

Think about it. Questionable entertainment, absolutely no amenities for kids other than the club, a formal environment, dress-up for dinner, a well earned reputation for a certain demographic, and zero marketing to families.

How many families would choose HAL for a Christmas vacation in the sun? How many TA's would recommend HAL for a family sun vacation? Only if the price was right. People who are familiar with HAL may.... but what about the others who have never cruised before?[/quote]

I don't recall Celebrity being overly child friendly and their cruises are double what Holland is asking.

what did kids do on cruises before the mega ships? Probably just take in the cruise. Now they have to be entertained every 2 seconds.

Best bet- dump them with grandma and skidaddle:)

[Wakepatrol]

[quote name='neptuno']We've opted for the Amsterdam last minute, 9 islands in fourteen days, possibly the best Caribbean itinerary out of FL ever. Third and Fourth passengers are free or deeply discounted. Bargain of our lives, thanks HAL![/quote]


Sounds great- Did you get your wine pricing down from the $1495 price you had a few days ago?

[budisal]

We wanted to take a HAL 11-14 day southern caribbean trip in Feb or March 2015, but couldn't get any kind of commitment from the HAL's personal travel consultant as to prices, Explore 4, OBCs or any discounted fares when we were looking in the early Fall. I called my own travel agent and got all that stuff for a 14 day cruise on Celebrity. So, guess who isn't going on HAL this year? What I've learned is that, with HAL, wait until the last minute and you'll start to get the best deals in the late Fall. We're retired and can sail just about any time, so, from now on, we wait for the best deals with all the perks that automatically come along. I wish HAL would let their personal travel consultants 'in' on what they plan to do on winter cruises so they could let us know when we are trying to make an early booking.


Sent from Al's iPad using Tapatalk

[iancal]

Not in the market this year. But last year, in mid Nov. we did snag a 14 day Eclipse veranda Caribbean. Christmas cruise for about the same per diem as HAL is currently offering. Perhaps Celebrity start discounting a little earlier and they certainly discount to fill the cabins. HAL seems to be a day late and a dollar short this year when it comes to unloading unsold Christmas cruises.

Keep in mind that Celebrity ships have multiple dining venues AND they are no smoking. I certainly would not, all things being equal, take my kids on a HAL ship if only because of the liberal smoking rules.

Now that we are retired, we are through with booking early. We are keeping a close eye out for Australian cruises in late Jan/early Feb. Not a lot of discounting going on in that market-either by NA TA's or Oz based TA's. Edited December 12, 2014 by iancal

[maraena]

Last November, when we booked this year's Christmas cruise, HAL was about $200/pp more than Celebrity and Celebrity was offering a free drink package with some different ports. (Why is it that all HAL ships shift to two basic itineraries during Christmas? It's dull. You're charging a premium for the season, make it worth it!)

Since that point, I've repriced the Celebrity cruise twice before final payment and always checked to see if HAL was coming down into range or had added amenities. HAL never did lower prices until this November which was well in the final payment deadlines.

I would've preferred HAL but I couldn't refuse a discounted rate, the drink package and some different ports. HAL is overpricing their cruises for those of us that do advance book and not dropping them soon enough. Thus they end up with folks who live in Florida or are retirees with greater flexibility. As a result, they're perpetuating their reputation of catering towards an older demographic and dis-incentivizing continued loyalty for those of us coming from a distance or with more limited vacation time.

I'm not sure who is managing their pricing or marketing, but the executive management may want to reappraise their performance and continued employment in that role. Their data analytics appear a bit faulty as well.

In the meantime, we'll be trying out a new brand and ship class. From a business perspective, it's a pity that HAL gave us this opportunity. Edited December 12, 2014 by maraena

[Wakepatrol]

[quote name='maraena']Last November, when we booked this year's Christmas cruise, HAL was about $200/pp more than Celebrity and Celebrity was offering a free drink package with some different ports. (Why is it that all HAL ships shift to two basic itineraries during Christmas? It's dull. You're charging a premium for the season, make it worth it[/QUOTE]

Exactly- it makes no sense the el cheapo cruises (like now $219 for inside cabin)
The ships are going to Bonaire, Aruba, Bonaire. Curaçao, St Lucia etc.

Same with the first cruise after New Years which are dirt cheap.
Then Christmas rolls around and they send all but two ships on the dull greyhound bus tour st. Thomas Puerto Rico etc.

Makes no sense:confused: Edited December 12, 2014 by Wakepatrol

[Folk Singer]

[quote name='Wakepatrol']The Maasdam and Amsterdam cruises started out at $2600-$2800 a year ago.

Now the Maasdam is $799 and the Maasdam $849
(For inside cabin)[/QUOTE]


We are looking but not yet decided.

[Oceanwench]

[quote name='iancal']That lack of amenities, comparatively speaking, may be one of the reasons why HAL is struggling to fill it's ships in the Caribbean over the Christmas season.

This is a time when cruise lines should be fully booked and commanding top dollar because of demand.

If you were taking your children or grandchildren on a Christmas cruise do you think they would prefer what is to them probably a 'stuffy' ship to something with a little more zip?[/QUOTE]

AGREE!!!

My daughter, a two-star Mariner, says the next cruise we take as a family will be on a ship that offers amenities her little ones will enjoy. Probably Norwegian. She loved HAL when she was in her 20s, but now with two little ones, she wants something fun for them.

And yeah, kids on a cruise ship do need to be entertained.

As far as the economy, my house value has gone way up as has my 401K ... Not sure why some think the economy is so bad.

Just got back from Disney World and the parks are packed. Merchandise flying off the shelves. We wanted to go back this coming weekend, but even the "cheap" resorts on site are close to $200/night.
People ARE spending money on vacations.

Just call me a member of the "worthless" media ... Edited December 13, 2014 by Oceanwench

[neptuno]

[quote name='Wakepatrol']Sounds great- Did you get your wine pricing down from the $1495 price you had a few days ago?[/QUOTE]

No luck on the bev pkg, still over $100/day for two. We are leaning toward bringing wine and paying the corkage, but still not sure. Hoping for another miracle...

[pv girl]

[quote name='maraena']

I would've preferred HAL but I couldn't refuse a discounted rate, the drink package and some different ports. HAL is overpricing their cruises for those of us that do advance book and not dropping them soon enough. Thus they end up with folks who live in Florida or are retirees with greater flexibility. As a result, they're perpetuating their reputation of catering towards an older demographic and dis-incentivizing continued loyalty for those of us coming from a distance or with more limited vacation time.

In the meantime, we'll be trying out a new brand and ship class. From a business perspective, it's a pity that HAL gave us this opportunity.[/quote]

Bingo! Well thought out.

[ICUQT]

[quote name='maraena']I would've preferred HAL but I couldn't refuse a discounted rate, the drink package and some different ports. HAL is overpricing their cruises for those of us that do advance book and not dropping them soon enough. Thus they end up with folks who live in Florida or are retirees with greater flexibility. As a result, they're perpetuating their reputation of catering towards an older demographic and dis-incentivizing continued loyalty for those of us coming from a distance or with more limited vacation time.

I'm not sure who is managing their pricing or marketing, but the executive management may want to reappraise their performance and continued employment in that role. Their data analytics appear a bit faulty as well.

In the meantime, we'll be trying out a new brand and ship class. From a business perspective, it's a pity that HAL gave us this opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I usually book way out to accomodate my wife's employment. But you are right there is no incentive to book early. If you can wait and everything lines up for you do it as late as you can. Loyalty?? I don't know anymore. I like HA it suits my need and I have few complaints. But I board the Maasdam in less than three weeks and have one booked for September and I am not going to book anything while onboard. It is a business. It is an average cruise line. Like you I am trying out another brand and class of ship. I thought I would see that 5th Star (I'm half way there) but it might not happen and that's OK with me.

bob

[Palmetto Lady]

According to Barrons, they expect that Carnival and either Celebrity or Norwegian (I don't remember which) stock to start climbing in the near future. There are also more new ships in the pipeline. The new ships being built to appeal to families. (When our kids were young, we couldn't afford to bring them with us.)

[iancal]

When you look at the popular mass market cruise lines out there, HAL is probably the cruise line with the most narrow market slice and appeal, or at least it seems that way. Especially for holiday cruises.

And HAL appears to be doing absolutely nothing to move in the same direction as the market or rest of the mass market lines. The one exception to that might be the staffing cuts-they are all doing it.

Perhaps this is one more reason why they had to 'blow out' cabins on sailings during the peak Christmas season. Edited December 17, 2014 by iancal

[neptuno]

[quote name='iancal'].......Perhaps this is one more reason why they had to 'blow out' cabins on sailings during the peak Christmas season.[/QUOTE]

Whatever is wrong with HAL, keep it up. We are gratefull to have booked ms Amsterdam for the holiday, nine Caribbean islands in fourteen days for a very affordable price (first time on HAL simply for that reason). While this particular itinerary is very special, HAL has seven other ships in the Caribbean this winter, six of which are doing the "milk run", San Juan, St. Thomas, HMC. Logistically, they have over saturated their own market. Thank goodness for ms Amsterdam!

[sail7seas]

[quote name='maraena']Last November, when we booked this year's Christmas cruise, HAL was about $200/pp more than Celebrity and Celebrity was offering a free drink package with some different ports. (Why is it that all HAL ships shift to two basic itineraries during Christmas? It's dull. You're charging a premium for the season, make it worth it!)

Since that point, I've repriced the Celebrity cruise twice before final payment and always checked to see if HAL was coming down into range or had added amenities. HAL never did lower prices until this November which was well in the final payment deadlines.

I would've preferred HAL but I couldn't refuse a discounted rate, the drink package and some different ports. HAL is overpricing their cruises for those of us that do advance book and not dropping them soon enough. Thus they end up with folks who live in Florida or are retirees with greater flexibility. As a result, they're perpetuating their reputation of catering towards an older demographic and dis-incentivizing continued loyalty for those of us coming from a distance or with more limited vacation time.

I'm not sure who is managing their pricing or marketing, but the executive management may want to reappraise their performance and continued employment in that role. Their data analytics appear a bit faulty as well.

In the meantime, we'll be trying out a new brand and ship class. From a business perspective, it's a pity that HAL gave us this opportunity.[/QUOTE]


[B] You make some very good points. Good post. :)[/B]

[Sue from Canada]

Eliminate the single supplement and you'll see a lot of fast bookings. I'm heading for Florida in January for a land vacation but when I get home in February I'll be looking for a cool deal back down south. And if I want one I'll be out of the snow and cold in a flash. Edited December 17, 2014 by Sue from Canada

[bcscot]

It is very sad to read of HAL's decline. However, if they have been haemorrhaging passengers over the last few years, we are part of that haemorrhage. After 11 years and 21 cruises on HAL, we reached 4 star Mariner status on the Oosterdam this year, but we have no plans to enjoy our new lofty position. I think that I would tolerate most of the problems, infact I still think that the food, service and ambience are very good on HAL and the value for money, exceptional. However, we have left for one reason and one reason alone, that of the A/C and ventilation problems.

We have had many A/C and ventilation problems on HAL ships, but in recent years, it has become obvious to us that HAL frequently shut down the cabin airflow at night. Many (if not most) people seem to be insensitive to this, so they do not notice and it does not bother them. We are very sensitive to it and so we do not sleep well, which ruins our cruise experience. HAL deny that they do this, but we are certain that they do. This CC news article only confirmed in our minds, what we already believed:
[url]http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6012[/url]

Sorry HAL, but if you won't let us breath at night, we will not be sailing with you in the future. What use is a cruise, even if they give it away free, if you cannot sleep? We are booked up to 2017 with Celebrity and Azamara. I am sure that they have their problems too, but we are hoping that they will at least give us air to breath! This makes me very sad though. We have loved HAL and wanted to be loyal to them. :(

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='bcscot']...we have left for one reason and one reason alone, that of the A/C and ventilation problems.

We have had many A/C and ventilation problems on HAL ships, but in recent years, it has become obvious to us that HAL frequently shut down the cabin airflow at night...[/QUOTE]

I am sensitive to air quality myself, so try to book balconies if within my budget to have more control over air flow. I knew some HAL ships had HVAC problems, but thought it was an age and maintenance issue. I didn't realize HAL was actually curtailing it intentionally :(.

[sammiedawg]

[quote name='bcscot']It is very sad to read of HAL's decline. However, if they have been haemorrhaging passengers over the last few years, we are part of that haemorrhage. After 11 years and 21 cruises on HAL, we reached 4 star Mariner status on the Oosterdam this year, but we have no plans to enjoy our new lofty position. I think that I would tolerate most of the problems, infact I still think that the food, service and ambience are very good on HAL and the value for money, exceptional. However, we have left for one reason and one reason alone, that of the A/C and ventilation problems.

We have had many A/C and ventilation problems on HAL ships, but in recent years, it has become obvious to us that HAL frequently shut down the cabin airflow at night. Many (if not most) people seem to be insensitive to this, so they do not notice and it does not bother them. We are very sensitive to it and so we do not sleep well, which ruins our cruise experience. HAL deny that they do this, but we are certain that they do. This CC news article only confirmed in our minds, what we already believed:
[url]http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6012[/url]

Sorry HAL, but if you won't let us breath at night, we will not be sailing with you in the future. What use is a cruise, even if they give it away free, if you cannot sleep? We are booked up to 2017 with Celebrity and Azamara. I am sure that they have their problems too, but we are hoping that they will at least give us air to breath! This makes me very sad though. We have loved HAL and wanted to be loyal to them. :([/QUOTE]

We have reason to believe this AC ventilation shut down was happening on the Prinsendam on port days. We were onboard 14 days in July. We would return to the cabin mid to late afternoon and the cabin was sweltering. Initially we thought the cabin steward was adjusting the temperature but he told us the central system is adjusted on port days. We talked to the front desk and they would not confirm this was happening, but we knew something was going on. We had the AC conk out a few nights as well. Edited December 17, 2014 by sammiedawg

[Lizzie68]

[quote name='bcscot']It is very sad to read of HAL's decline. However, if they have been haemorrhaging passengers over the last few years, we are part of that haemorrhage. After 11 years and 21 cruises on HAL, we reached 4 star Mariner status on the Oosterdam this year, but we have no plans to enjoy our new lofty position. I think that I would tolerate most of the problems, infact I still think that the food, service and ambience are very good on HAL and the value for money, exceptional. However, we have left for one reason and one reason alone, that of the A/C and ventilation problems.

We have had many A/C and ventilation problems on HAL ships, but in recent years, it has become obvious to us that HAL frequently shut down the cabin airflow at night. Many (if not most) people seem to be insensitive to this, so they do not notice and it does not bother them. We are very sensitive to it and so we do not sleep well, which ruins our cruise experience. HAL deny that they do this, but we are certain that they do. This CC news article only confirmed in our minds, what we already believed:
[URL]http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6012[/URL]

Sorry HAL, but if you won't let us breath at night, we will not be sailing with you in the future. What use is a cruise, even if they give it away free, if you cannot sleep? We are booked up to 2017 with Celebrity and Azamara. I am sure that they have their problems too, but we are hoping that they will at least give us air to breath! This makes me very sad though. We have loved HAL and wanted to be loyal to them. :([/quote]

That`s very interesting. On our cruise earlier this year I woke up every night around 2:30 - 3:00 am, hot and clammy and the cabin was airless. It felt so unhealthy. DH sleeps on regardless, but I found it very uncomfortable.

[iancal]

It is called 'cheating the customer'

 

HVAC/AC and plumbing issues are the reason why we will not consider a number of older HAL ships.

 

We thought it was age, normal loss of system efficiency, or mods from the addition more cabins in what were previously public areas. I guess intentionally adjusting the AC systems simply adds to the existing issues on these ships and causes issues for the newer ships in the fleet.

Edited December 17, 2014 by iancal

[bcscot]

We have reason to believe this AC ventilation shut down was happening on the Prinsendam on port days. We were onboard 14 days in July. We would return to the cabin mid to late afternoon and the cabin was sweltering. Initially we thought the cabin steward was adjusting the temperature but he told us the central system is adjusted on port days. We talked to the front desk and they would not confirm this was happening, but we knew something was going on. We had the AC conk out a few nights as well.

 

I am sorry to hear that they are even doing it on the Prinsendam. I had hoped that she might be spared. I wonder if they do this on the 'world voyages' of the Amsterdam and the Prinsendam. That was my last hope for HAL!

[bcscot]

That`s very interesting. On our cruise earlier this year I woke up every night around 2:30 - 3:00 am, hot and clammy and the cabin was airless. It felt so unhealthy. DH sleeps on regardless, but I found it very uncomfortable.

 

We have experienced this, often. As you lie awake, sweating and unable to breath comfortably, you can feel when they switch the ventilation back on. It is truly a breath of fresh air! While walking down to the front desk, in my night attire, at 3am, I could feel the difference as I left the cabins and walked down the stairs, where the air was still flowing.

[bcscot]

I am sensitive to air quality myself, so try to book balconies if within my budget to have more control over air flow. I knew some HAL ships had HVAC problems, but thought it was an age and maintenance issue. I didn't realize HAL was actually curtailing it intentionally :(.

 

We tried that: a balcony on a Vista. The wind was blowing so hard on the Tasman Sea, that if you opened the balcony door, the wind whistled through the cabin, creating a loud noise and vibration! The Oosterdam is no old ship either!

[cruz chic]

Last November, when we booked this year's Christmas cruise, HAL was about $200/pp more than Celebrity and Celebrity was offering a free drink package with some different ports. (Why is it that all HAL ships shift to two basic itineraries during Christmas? It's dull. You're charging a premium for the season, make it worth it!)

 

Since that point, I've repriced the Celebrity cruise twice before final payment and always checked to see if HAL was coming down into range or had added amenities. HAL never did lower prices until this November which was well in the final payment deadlines.

 

I would've preferred HAL but I couldn't refuse a discounted rate, the drink package and some different ports. HAL is overpricing their cruises for those of us that do advance book and not dropping them soon enough. Thus they end up with folks who live in Florida or are retirees with greater flexibility. As a result, they're perpetuating their reputation of catering towards an older demographic and dis-incentivizing continued loyalty for those of us coming from a distance or with more limited vacation time.

 

I'm not sure who is managing their pricing or marketing, but the executive management may want to reappraise their performance and continued employment in that role. Their data analytics appear a bit faulty as well.

 

In the meantime, we'll be trying out a new brand and ship class. From a business perspective, it's a pity that HAL gave us this opportunity.

Your post could have been written by me. I've often said this about their pricing. I was wanting to book a March cruise. The price was stupid high for a run of the mill cruise. I waited as long as I was prepared to and with no price drop I booked princess. I'd rather be on hal but they shot themselves in the foot. Now I see them offering free cruises to some folks. Well done hal!