Crown Princess through the Panama Canal

[yyjguy]

During a recent chat with bridge officers aboard one of the west coast based ships, I was told that internal chatter is that Crown Princess will probably be the first of the ships too large for the current canal to utilized the new larger locks. Apparently between December 2016 and March 2017 the ship will reposition back to the Caribbean, and as well as going around the bottom of South America the company is looking at a series of trans canals over that time period. Something to keep an eye out for!

[Colo Cruiser]

If they ever finish the expansion. Word on our cruise in March that its late 2017 maybe even into 2018 now.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Colo Cruiser

[Astro Flyer]

If they ever finish the expansion. Word on our cruise in March that its late 2017 maybe even into 2018 now.

I wonder which long delayed construction project will be completed first...the Panama Canal or Berlin's long delayed new airport that was scheduled to be completed in 2011 with the latest estimate to be at the end of 2017...and continues to be extended. :eek:

[msmoger]

I wonder which long delayed construction project will be completed first...the Panama Canal or Berlin's long delayed new airport that was scheduled to be completed in 2011 with the latest estimate to be at the end of 2017...and continues to be extended. :eek:

 

Construction had just started when we visited Berlin in 2006!! :eek:

[Kamloops50]

During a recent chat with bridge officers aboard one of the west coast based ships, I was told that internal chatter is that Crown Princess will probably be the first of the ships too large for the current canal to utilized the new larger locks. Apparently between December 2016 and March 2017 the ship will reposition back to the Caribbean, and as well as going around the bottom of South America the company is looking at a series of trans canals over that time period. Something to keep an eye out for!

 

The problem with some of the Princess ( except the Island , Coral and Pacific)

is what they call Air Draft . This the height that the ship requires to safety pass under an object with sufficient clearance for for the ships engine exhaust.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Kamloops50

[Colo Cruiser]

I wonder which long delayed construction project will be completed first...the Panama Canal or Berlin's long delayed new airport that was scheduled to be completed in 2011 with the latest estimate to be at the end of 2017...and continues to be extended. :eek:

 

Well here in Denver we now have the infamous VA hospital at a standstill and at over 1 1/2 billion now double the original estimate/budget.

Half finished. :rolleyes:

[yyjguy]

The air draft is not an issue for the Crown. On Ruby, Emerald and Crown it is 56.28 M, significantly lower than any overhead obstruction in the present or new canal route which is 57.9M. The issue is vessel beam, with that class of vessel being 36.2M and the locks are 32.6M. They are only 290M in length and the locks are 294.1M. I do not know the air draft of the Royal class but will look it up when at work next.

[Kamloops50]

The air draft is not an issue for the Crown. On Ruby, Emerald and Crown it is 56.28 M, significantly lower than any overhead obstruction in the present or new canal route which is 57.9M. The issue is vessel beam, with that class of vessel being 36.2M and the locks are 32.6M. They are only 290M in length and the locks are 294.1M. I do not know the air draft of the Royal class but will look it up when at work next.

 

The limiting thing is the air draft under the old bridge at Panama City. It's between the locks and the Pacific Ocean.

 

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[Loonbeam]

Could still use the larger ships for a partial though even if they didn't meet that requirement?

 

The limiting thing is the air draft under the old bridge at Panama City. It's between the locks and the Pacific Ocean.

 

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[Kamloops50]

Could still use the larger ships for a partial though even if they didn't meet that requirement?

 

Sure could

 

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[OCruisers]

Will be following with great interest.

LuLu

[yyjguy]

Kamloops 50: The Crown will fit under the lowest bridge which has 57.9 M of room and the ship is only 56.28 M; she has 1.62 M of clearance. However, the ship will not fit through the current locks. The locks have a working clearance of 32.6 M and the ship is 36.2 M wide; thus she is 3.6 M too wide for the current locks. Thus, it is the locks and ship's beam that limit the passage of this class of vessel.

[Kamloops50]

Kamloops 50: The Crown will fit under the lowest bridge which has 57.9 M of room and the ship is only 56.28 M; she has 1.62 M of clearance. However, the ship will not fit through the current locks. The locks have a working clearance of 32.6 M and the ship is 36.2 M wide; thus she is 3.6 M too wide for the current locks. Thus, it is the locks and ship's beam that limit the passage of this class of vessel.

 

Just checked. The official clearance height of the Crown is 59 meters. Making it 1.1 meters to high.

 

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Edited May 22, 2015 by Kamloops50

[Colo Cruiser]

Well that solves that, there will not be any Princess ships other then the current ones going through the canal, ever. So glad we resolved this before Princess had a bad accident. :o

[yyjguy]

Kamloops 50 your information is not current. These vessels (Crown, Ruby and Emerald) have had the top portion of the forward mast reconfigured and hinged. The top portion now can fold down, thus lowering the air draft of the vessel. The highest portion is still the main mast, not the exhaust stacks within the funnel. Trust me, the correct air draft is exactly 56.24 M with the mast down. I work with deep sea ships every work day, and can assure you the information on vessel profiles is very accurate (used by Pilot, Ports and industry) and also very current.

[Kamloops50]

Kamloops 50 your information is not current. These vessels (Crown, Ruby and Emerald) have had the top portion of the forward mast reconfigured and hinged. The top portion now can fold down, thus lowering the air draft of the vessel. The highest portion is still the main mast, not the exhaust stacks within the funnel. Trust me, the correct air draft is exactly 56.24 M with the mast down. I work with deep sea ships every work day, and can assure you the information on vessel profiles is very accurate (used by Pilot, Ports and industry) and also very current.

 

Is this information readily available to the general public or is it available to a select group of people. If restricted I'm not wrong . If not then stand corrected. When I was working I had access to to info that wasn't available to the public.

 

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[Northender]

I have another question about the new canal.

 

Once completed, will it be more expensive to go through that the present canal?

[Kamloops50]

I have another question about the new canal.

 

Once completed, will it be more expensive to go through that the present canal?

 

Prices for the canal have already gone up. That is canal cruise prices have slowly been going up.

 

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[yyjguy]

Kamloops50: Our information is supplied to us directly by vessel operations at all shipping lines ( or their appointed agents ) entering Canadian waters. Our information is highly restricted and thus not publicly accessible. This information is used by other Government agencies, both Canadian and American, and by the marine industry on the coast. Some of the information may be publically available, I do not know where that would be, but not from our systems.

[BillB48]

Just for the record and if you don't mind if I use non metric units...;)... for unrestricted passage under the Bridge of Americas, air draft is 190ft. Passage is granted depending on the height of the tide for ships with of an air draft of up to 205ft.

 

There are two high and two low tides at Balboa every day and most days a month the range of the tide will be or exceed 14ft. So the timing of the passage under the Bridge won't be that difficult and spring tides can provide over 20ft range. I'm confident no matter which air draft figure for the Crown is correct there won't be any issue with the air draft:).

[BillB48]

I have another question about the new canal.

 

Once completed, will it be more expensive to go through that the present canal?

 

Basically it will be more expensive when the expansion is complete and the whole new toll structure is implemented in April 2016. For the larger cruise ships which would included the present Panamax and Post Panamax cruise ships the tolls will be slightly higher and dependent on which of the locks are used. The current toll is $134 per passenger berth and will rise to $138 for ships using the present locks. For ships using the expansion locks the toll will be $148 per passenger berth. In both cases even if there is only 1 paying passenger, the rate is applied to ALL passenger berths. Slight discount for passenger ships travelling in"ballast."

 

Here is a graphic for the new toll structure.

 

http://gcaptain.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/CD3XSBNVEAI6CrH.jpg

[Northender]

Thanks, Bill for that info. Looks like if Princess puts through the Grand, Golden or Star is would be about $26,000 more. That is a lot of money.:eek:

[Alexv500]

Looks like Crown will be going back to Ft. Lauderdale via South America. Just saw the brochure for South America and the Crown will be heading back to Florida through SA

[nukesubsailor]

I have another question about the new canal.

 

Once completed, will it be more expensive to go through that the present canal?

 

We just did a full transit of the Panama Canal in April. We attended lectures given by an expert on the canal and who had grown up in the Canal Zone.

He discussed the fees ships must pay to use the canal. It is based upon the volume of each ship. The new locks will handle the big container ships. Bigger ships = bigger volume = higher total fee. The expert said nothing about the rate, ($ per unit of volume), being any different for the new locks when compared to the old locks.

[Northender]

We just did a full transit of the Panama Canal in April. We attended lectures given by an expert on the canal and who had grown up in the Canal Zone.

He discussed the fees ships must pay to use the canal. It is based upon the volume of each ship. The new locks will handle the big container ships. Bigger ships = bigger volume = higher total fee. The expert said nothing about the rate, ($ per unit of volume), being any different for the new locks when compared to the old locks.

 

Thanks.:)