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Jade13

HAL no longer requires formal dress

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Ruined? No, I cannot remember a single post of that nature. To be sure, there have been some posts about feeling "under-dressed", but, no, I've not seen any who specifically said their meal was ruined because they were seated next to someone in a tuxedo.

 

Does your question imply that those who prefer to dress formally deserve some special degree of consideration because their meal might be ruined by the sight of someone in denim?

 

I can't remember anyone saying that their "meal was ruined" by being in the MDR with people who failed to even minimally follow the dress code. So it appears your entire premise is, well, hyperbole is perhaps the nicest way I can put it.

 

People have said that their EXPERIENCE was degraded because others failed to follow the rules. And that's what it's about - not the type of dress but the attitude that "the rules don't apply to me". But, in your words, we should "just get over it?"

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White tie at dinner was gone long before the cruise era (which only started after World War II). You may be thinking of an earlier age when folks travelled via ship to get to a particular destination (e.g., Transatlantic). Nevertheless, you did mention that those who prefer "sloppy casual" would have their ambiance ruined by seeing people in formal dress. So please point me towards those postings.

 

And do you tell anyone who disagrees with you, on any subject, to "just get over it?"

 

 

You're correct , I was referring to travel by ship. You put quotes around "just get over it" as if if I had said that. J did not, so no I don't say that to people.,. I do say, times are changing and we most adapt... Or sail Cunard.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Who is telling you to go to the buffet, in recent history? Hal only asks that you put on a pair of pants and a shirt with a collar on gala night. Is that really to much to ask? Is saying go to the buffet such an insult that the correct reply is get over it? That's ridiculous. People used to complain about having to put on a tie and jacket, now it's pants.

 

You know as well as I do that before HAL changed the dress code, one of the more common responses to those who stated a preference for a relaxed dress code was "just go to the buffet". HAL only changed the dress code, what six weeks ago? I do think that does count as "recent history".

 

"Just get over it" is no more ridiculous or offensive as "Just go to the buffet". BTW, I'm not saying you in particular ever said "go to the buffet", but it was common.

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You know as well as I do that before HAL changed the dress code, one of the more common responses to those who stated a preference for a relaxed dress code was "just go to the buffet". HAL only changed the dress code, what six weeks ago? I do think that does count as "recent history".

 

"Just get over it" is no more ridiculous or offensive as "Just go to the buffet". BTW, I'm not saying you in particular ever said "go to the buffet", but it was common.

 

When you are an adult, you take responsibility for your decisions. Because of the confusion Hal has caused with its policy I decided to take less "formal" clothes on my last cruise. What I took would still pass for the dining room but I made the decision that I was not going to go to the MDR. I had my meal in Canaletto and was happy doing that. Not once did I moan about not going to the MDR. I took responsibility for my decisions instead of complaining about it and insulting others because of my decision.

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I can't remember anyone saying that their "meal was ruined" by being in the MDR with people who failed to even minimally follow the dress code. So it appears your entire premise is, well, hyperbole is perhaps the nicest way I can put it.

 

People have said that their EXPERIENCE was degraded because others failed to follow the rules. And that's what it's about - not the type of dress but the attitude that "the rules don't apply to me". But, in your words, we should "just get over it?"

 

No, my friend, "ruined" is your premise. I can't remember ever using the word "ruined" until you brought that word into this conversation. To refresh your memory, you started this discussion in response to my post quoted below:

 

The 'ambiance' of those who like to dress up is no more important than the 'ambiance' of those who do not. Anyone whose feelings are hurt by how someone else chooses to dress on a cruise ship needs to get over it. Take a deep breath, have another drink, and consider just how fortunate you are to be on a cruise ship having such problems. If that doesn't work, rinse and repeat.

 

"Ruined" does not appear in this post. If I'm guilty of 'hyperbole', then you're guilty of constructing a 'strawman'.

 

FWIW, I don't think you can find a single instance when I've advocated ignoring the rules.

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No, my friend, "ruined" is your premise. I can't remember ever using the word "ruined" until you brought that word into this conversation. To refresh your memory, you started this discussion in response to my post quoted below:

 

 

 

"Ruined" does not appear in this post. If I'm guilty of 'hyperbole', then you're guilty of constructing a 'strawman'.

 

FWIW, I don't think you can find a single instance when I've advocated ignoring the rules.

 

Your post #651:"Anyone whose feelings are hurt by how someone else chooses to dress on a cruise ship needs to get over it."

 

If this does not advocate ignoring the rules, I do not know what does.

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You're correct , I was referring to travel by ship. You put quotes around "just get over it" as if if I had said that. J did not, so no I don't say that to people.,. I do say, times are changing and we most adapt... Or sail Cunard.

 

I apologize, I was conflating your post with that of someone else.

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I am really confused. I am going on a 7 day cruise next week with my son-in-law (wife unable to travel) and was planning to take my heavy dark suite for Formal (oops) Gala night and Pinnacle Grill . I have read two conflicting articles on Cruise Critic. One article states collared shirt and slacks and the other recommends jacket and tie. If I didn't have to take my suite I can probably get by with a carry on luggage.

 

What do you recommend? I don't want to look out of place.

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I am really confused. I am going on a 7 day cruise next week with my son-in-law (wife unable to travel) and was planning to take my heavy dark suite for Formal (oops) Gala night and Pinnacle Grill . I have read two conflicting articles on Cruise Critic. One article states collared shirt and slacks and the other recommends jacket and tie. If I didn't have to take my suite I can probably get by with a carry on luggage.

 

What do you recommend? I don't want to look out of place.

 

Did pants and a collared shirt on last months cruise. No problem. If you want to bring a suit, go ahead. If you don't, then that's works too. You won't feel out of place either way.

 

Dan

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The question is do you want to meet the minimum requirement or more. Most people will be more dressy than the minimum.

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On our cruise last week many men were wearing a dress shirt with a tie and nice slacks. Didn't look too different than last spring when many of the guys hung their jackets on their chair back and ate dinner in a dress shirt and tie.

Edited by Viv0828

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White tie at dinner was gone long before the cruise era (which only started after World War II). You may be thinking of an earlier age when folks travelled via ship to get to a particular destination (e.g., Transatlantic).

My British mother and grandparents used to enjoy Med cruises (cruises, not transport from point to point) between the World Wars.

 

Cruising actually started in the 1800s, and P&O's excellent historical website includes the following mention:

 

P&O entered the business of ‘pleasure cruises’ for the first time in 1904. The concept was not new. The Orient Line had been successfully ‘cruising’ since 1889 and the North of Scotland Orkney & Shetland Shipping Company (forerunner of P&O Scottish Ferries) for even longer. But in a decade which saw P&O ships laid up ‘for want of trade’, the time for the Company to go cruising had arrived.

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Your post #651:"Anyone whose feelings are hurt by how someone else chooses to dress on a cruise ship needs to get over it."

 

If this does not advocate ignoring the rules, I do not know what does.

 

That's pretty obvious.

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This is our experience. We were in the Ocean Bar prior to the main,second, setting. We were getting are drinks, and a group 'fell' into the banque to us-they had daisy dukes and very low brassiers my grandson was curious about their dress since he did have on this tux, which he wears every week.

I missed that one. Daisy Dukes? Not even appropriate on Carnival!

I cruise HAL because I enjoy being refined (on occasion)... let's hope our fellow passengers uphold the spirit, if not the letter of the notice to passengers regarding Gala Night.

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I am really confused. I am going on a 7 day cruise next week with my son-in-law (wife unable to travel) and was planning to take my heavy dark suite for Formal (oops) Gala night and Pinnacle Grill . I have read two conflicting articles on Cruise Critic. One article states collared shirt and slacks and the other recommends jacket and tie. If I didn't have to take my suite I can probably get by with a carry on luggage.

 

What do you recommend? I don't want to look out of place.

 

I can understand why you would be confused by this thread. May I suggest you read the dress code FAQ on the HAL website. Follow this link:

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Baggage,+Packing+%26+Dress+Code&contentSubMenu=Is+There+A+Dress+Code?&WT.ac=PopTop_Dress

 

The bottom line is that a jacket and tie are prefered but not required. Just depends on how much of a hassle carrying an extra bag would be.

Edited by RocketMan275

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I am really confused. I am going on a 7 day cruise next week with my son-in-law (wife unable to travel) and was planning to take my heavy dark suite for Formal (oops) Gala night and Pinnacle Grill . I have read two conflicting articles on Cruise Critic. One article states collared shirt and slacks and the other recommends jacket and tie. If I didn't have to take my suite I can probably get by with a carry on luggage.

 

What do you recommend? I don't want to look out of place.

 

Just go by HAL's current dress code posted on their website, and ignore everything you have read on this thread, and you'll be fine.;) Have a great cruise.

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You raise some very pertinent points about my "simplistic" solution. Perhaps, it is too unworkable. I do have to ask, do you prefer some form of my "simplistic" solution or do you prefer Gala Nights?

 

Gala Nights are themselves a form of compromise that allows both casual and formal in the MDR. At least, my "simplistic" solution does have issues but it does not result in persons in Gala wear at the same table with those in more formal wear.

 

I cannot possible agree more with your final paragraph. I've tried to consistently ask for the "consideration" of the wishes of both those who dress formally and those who do not. But, so far, I've not found many of those who prefer formal wear who are willing to even consider "small compromises".

 

 

Seeing you specifically asked me my preference, I don't mind responding. Given that HAL has watered down Formal Night to a mishmash of 'do your own thing', I prefer they no longer pretend they have anything resembling formal.

 

I don't like fence sitting. Make a choice and go with your decision. They can't seem to put their neck out there and make a statement. Either they will have formal nights or not but I think they should be perfectly clear of their choice.

 

 

 

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Seeing you specifically asked me my preference, I don't mind responding. Given that HAL has watered down Formal Night to a mishmash of 'do your own thing', I prefer they no longer pretend they have anything resembling formal.

 

I don't like fence sitting. Make a choice and go with your decision. They can't seem to put their neck out there and make a statement. Either they will have formal nights or not but I think they should be perfectly clear of their choice.

 

 

You maybe surprised to learn that I fully agree with your opinions here.

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Though we don't agree on some things, I've never thought you an unreasonable poster. :)

 

Just because we have different viewpoints doesn't make one of us right or one wrong.

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Though we don't agree on some things, I've never thought you an unreasonable poster. :)

 

Just because we have different viewpoints doesn't make one of us right or one wrong.

 

That's very kind of you and I appreciate your posts as well. I suspect were we to spend time together, we would find many things we do agree on. Looking forward to meeting you sometime.

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Ladies and gentlemen, boy and girls I have made a decision. Since "Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change" I will "not" be wearing my very dashing dark black suite and bright red tie. It was a tough decision.

 

Now back to reading the Smoking Sticky.

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Seeing you specifically asked me my preference, I don't mind responding. Given that HAL has watered down Formal Night to a mishmash of 'do your own thing', I prefer they no longer pretend they have anything resembling formal.

 

I don't like fence sitting. Make a choice and go with your decision. They can't seem to put their neck out there and make a statement. Either they will have formal nights or not but I think they should be perfectly clear of their choice.

 

 

HAL seems to be very clear to me - no more formal nights. IMO, I don't think HAL has had anything resembling formal for quite some time.

 

From the FAQs:

 

Q: Why the change from “Formal” To “Gala” night?

A: To many, the “Formal” term was misleading as it implies a specific type of dress (black tie or tuxedo) that has never been a requirement. “Gala” still implies festive or dressy without misleading guests to bring attire the majority of guests don’t wear.

 

To give an idea of how misleading the term "formal" was, HAL further states:

 

Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change.

 

One would never come to that conclusion from reading the countless previous attire threads on CC and the so-called rule of wearing a jacket which many posters were adamant was required.

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Someone in Seattle has flaming trousers.

 

Quote function is not working. This is in response to cbr663's post, where HAL's explanation of the policy is given. I'm not complaining about the post or the poster. But, really, HAL is getting ridiculous:

 

"Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change."

 

They're rewriting the past. They most certainly did expect men to wear jacket and tie in the past. Enforcement got increasingly lax--people saw jacketless men allowed into the MDR and other people saw jacketless men refused entry. But the policy said "dress up and stay dressed up." Maybe they didn't say "required" or "if not, you won't get in," but it's pretty clearly their intent. Why they're saying jacket and tie weren't required in the past mystifies me. Why not tell the truth and say "we used to require a jacket and tie and now we don't."

 

I searched through old threads to find places where HAL's policy appeared as a quote.

 

2010

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1210512&highlight=formal+night+policy

On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week. In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

 

2012

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1742842&highlight=formal+night+policy

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies may wear a suit, cocktail dress, gown or fancy blouse/top with slacks and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening."

 

2014

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2075049&highlight=formal+night+policy

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and sports shirts or sweater for men and skirt or trousers and sweater or blouse for women. Printed T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours.

 

On festive Formal evenings, ladies wear a cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a suit and tie or tuxedo. Formal wear for ladies and gentlemen can be pre-ordered for your use during your cruise by calling Cruiseline Formalwear at 1-800-551-5091 or (305) 252-6565. For more information, please visit cruiselineformal.com. Your formal wear will be in your stateroom when you board. In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening. The number of Formal evenings on your cruise will depend upon the duration of the voyage. Please note, if you have booked collector voyages, the number of Formal evenings is based upon the duration of each individual voyage of the ship.

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At the risk of being again drawn into a flogging of a dead and buried horse....

 

I will answer the question "how what someone else is wearing could bother you?"

 

It is called ambiance.

 

When a situation is defined as "formal" or "gala" (and with it comes a definition for what that means for dressing) it is setting a certain ambiance that enhances the evening. Let me ask you: does the china affect the taste of the food? Does the crystal change the taste of the wine? Does linen tablecloths and napkins change the conversation with tablemates? If you say no, then feel free to wear your jeans and tee shirts into the main dining room on formal night. Or better yet, drink your Merlot from solo cup and eat your lobster tail on a paper plate.

 

But for those of us who believe that an evening is made more enjoyable with the trappings of a more traditionally formal setting, we choose a cruise line with one or two nights a week where people are dressier than their normal trip to McDonalds. Because we believe that the attire of the people in the dinning room enhances the ambiance the same way that china and crystal and linen does.

 

My question to you - in support of my friend Dakrewser: Why do you choose a cruise line with certain requirements and then feel they should not apply to you?

 

My theory has always been, and this illustrates it, that those that say they care about what others are wearing in the dining room are just snobs. Who cares what I drink my Merlot out of, and some of the best meals I've eaten have actually been served on a paper plate. Such people are just going to look down their nose at people who they perceive as a lower class then them.

 

My food tastes the same, and I enjoy the conversation with my wife just as much, whether the guy at the table next to me is wearing a tux or, God forbid, jeans and a polo shirt. Shoot, if he's wearing shorts I'll probably never know since his legs will be under the table (and certainly don't care).

 

I feel sorry for those that are so insecure or dissatisfied with their lives that they can only feel good if they are dining in the company of people of sufficient class. If it makes them feel better to play dress up, more power to them.

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Ladies and gentlemen, boy and girls I have made a decision. Since "Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change" I will "not" be wearing my very dashing dark black suite and bright red tie. It was a tough decision.

 

Now back to reading the Smoking Sticky.

 

You won't regret it. I was on the Westerdam last week and wore a shirt and tie on Gala Night. Never once felt out of place or made to feel under dressed by anyone. No regrets leaving the suit at home. I also was able to pack everything in one carry on.

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