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Jade13

HAL no longer requires formal dress

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You may call it a policy change, but the HAL FAQ does not. What part of " Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change" is difficult to comprehend.

 

That definition of dumbing down is yours. Less of something is not dumb, it is simply less. If one goes on a diet and, as a result, weighs less, have they been dumbed down?

 

And enough of the slippery slope argument, already!!!

 

I simply can't understand what you are saying, and I really don't care to. Hal changed its policy to not require ties and jackets, people try to get in with shorts on a regular basis. Where does it end? Enough with the "that doesn't happen argument". It seems some people just want to argue. It's boring me.

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... and just because you agree with IG's post does not make it any less offensive or condescending - we are all entitled to our own opinions, and IMO earljr's post was spot on!

I believe that you should have said "offensive to me" and "condescending in my opinion." You probably could have said "to me and at least two other people" if you really felt the need for validation. It's pretty clear that not everyone exhibits the same level of sensitivity. I know I don't. Of course, I wear a jacket, which helps to shield my skin, making it thicker, and more resistant to perceived slights. :D

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So, what would you like to call it?

 

BTW, what makes a change from one particular type of dress to another "dumbing down?" Why is it dumb to allow pax to wear comfortable clothes on vacation? Sounds smart to me, especially with HAL's attempt to expand its target market before its current base of core customers dies off.

I'd call it "allowing people to self-identify through what they wear." In the past, before the policy change, you could never tell if someone was dressed up because they wanted to be or because they had to be. Now, people will be freer to be themselves. Definitely makes things easier. I still feel bad for the shorts and flip flops crowd. Or the comfy sweat pants crowd in Alaska. They're still forced to conform to a societal norm of "business casual." What if they're not business people? It seems unfair.

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I'd call it "allowing people to self-identify through what they wear." In the past, before the policy change, you could never tell if someone was dressed up because they wanted to be or because they had to be. Now, people will be freer to be themselves. Definitely makes things easier. I still feel bad for the shorts and flip flops crowd. Or the comfy sweat pants crowd in Alaska. They're still forced to conform to a societal norm of "business casual." What if they're not business people? It seems unfair.

 

This board would be a less interesting, humorous, and insightful place without you. Thank you.

Edited by qsuzi

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This board would be a less interesting, humorous, and insightful place without you. Thank you.

 

That's a fact, Jack!(not calling you Jack, suziQ)

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That's a fact, Jack!(not calling you Jack, suziQ)

 

So is it okay for you to post what HAL ships you will be on in 2016? By chance will you be on the Westerdam?

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.. especially with HAL's attempt to expand its target market before its current base of core customers dies off.

Oh No! I'm about to die off? I feel remarkably healthy!

 

There's so much undue contention about this non issue...

- My HAL experiences are very nice. I'll opine that if the "dress standard" is relaxed, it'll go straight to...tank tops/muscle shirts (on men) and ripped shorts in the MDR - which interestingly aren't allowed in Carnival MDRs either, but with their less stringent dress code, what I typically saw.

- The Gala Nights should be that; and if one doesn't feel like schlepping a suit or tux on cruise, the Lido Buffet and room service are available to you.

---

I realize that a lot of folks are loathe to dress up on their vacation; I got it (and as a retired senior military officer I've still got a closet full of dress uniforms of various colors that I routinely had to climb into)....and knowing that there's plenty of casual cruiselines out there - not to mention "textile free" nudist cruises, can we please try to maintain some decorum at least a few nights a week in the MDR? Please?

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Oh No! I'm about to die off? I feel remarkably healthy!

 

There's so much undue contention about this non issue...

- My HAL experiences are very nice. I'll opine that if the "dress standard" is relaxed, it'll go straight to...tank tops/muscle shirts (on men) and ripped shorts in the MDR - which interestingly aren't allowed in Carnival MDRs either, but with their less stringent dress code, what I typically saw.

- The Gala Nights should be that; and if one doesn't feel like schlepping a suit or tux on cruise, the Lido Buffet and room service are available to you.

---

I realize that a lot of folks are loathe to dress up on their vacation; I got it (and as a retired senior military officer I've still got a closet full of dress uniforms of various colors that I routinely had to climb into)....and knowing that there's plenty of casual cruiselines out there - not to mention "textile free" nudist cruises, can we please try to maintain some decorum at least a few nights a week in the MDR? Please?

 

Why is other people's clothing that they choose to wear so important to you that you would see them exiled to a cruise line or restaurant not of their choice if they don't wear what you choose? It doesn't affect the quality of your cabin, your meal, your service.

Edited by Wehwalt

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Why is other people's clothing that they choose to wear so important to you that you would see them exiled to a cruise line or restaurant not of their choice if they don't wear what you choose? It doesn't affect the quality of your cabin, your meal, your service.

 

 

Do you ever get dressed up? To go to church, a wedding, a business meeting, or any kind of event? If so, is that what you want to wear? Or is it because that is what is expected of you to wear in polite society?

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Oh No! I'm about to die off? I feel remarkably healthy!

 

There's so much undue contention about this non issue...

- My HAL experiences are very nice. I'll opine that if the "dress standard" is relaxed, it'll go straight to...tank tops/muscle shirts (on men) and ripped shorts in the MDR - which interestingly aren't allowed in Carnival MDRs either, but with their less stringent dress code, what I typically saw.

- The Gala Nights should be that; and if one doesn't feel like schlepping a suit or tux on cruise, the Lido Buffet and room service are available to you.

---

I realize that a lot of folks are loathe to dress up on their vacation; I got it (and as a retired senior military officer I've still got a closet full of dress uniforms of various colors that I routinely had to climb into)....and knowing that there's plenty of casual cruiselines out there - not to mention "textile free" nudist cruises, can we please try to maintain some decorum at least a few nights a week in the MDR? Please?

 

I hope you're wrong on two counts. First I hope you are NOT about to die off! Second, I hope you're wrong about the slipping dress code. I suspect some of the "I don't wanna you can't make me" posters here are just stirring the pot, and most HAL passengers know how to dress for a nice restaurant.

 

In September, just after the policy changed, I didn't see much difference. I made a point of excusing myself to go to the loo, and since we were way at the back of the upper level, I was able to take a circular route and get a good look at the "ambient" wardrobe. I think I counted 4 or 5 men without jackets. All the other men were wearing jackets. I'll be curious to see if it's different on our Feb cruise when more people are likely to have learned about the change. I'm hopeful that most will go with the "suggestion" rather than the "minimum requirement."

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Do you ever get dressed up? To go to church, a wedding, a business meeting, or any kind of event? If so, is that what you want to wear? Or is it because that is what is expected of you to wear in polite society?

 

The rules for dressing on a HAL ship are fully set forth in the conditions of carriage and similar. I obey them to the letter.

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The rules for dressing on a HAL ship are fully set forth in the conditions of carriage and similar. I obey them to the letter.

 

 

Good for you. And if everyone followed your lead, i would have no complaints. Short of that, i hope HAL continues to enforce those rules.

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Good for you. And if everyone followed your lead, i would have no complaints. Short of that, i hope HAL continues to enforce those rules.

 

Enforce a rule, lose a customer.

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Do you ever get dressed up? To go to church, a wedding, a business meeting, or any kind of event? If so, is that what you want to wear? Or is it because that is what is expected of you to wear in polite society?

 

I learned a long time ago that trivial considerations like the expectations of polite society are best ignored. Try it. You'll enjoy a happier life with far less stress.

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Glad to hear you have decided to join the ranks of those of us who believe that clothing does not make a person more or less civilized or more or less considerate. But, accepting those premises requires abandoning many, if not most, of the arguments that dress codes enhance the dining experience. For example, you can no longer insist that gentlemen wearing jackets improves the 'ambiance' since a gentleman with a jacket is no more civilized and considerate as a gentleman without.

 

I was referring to Ithaca Gal's statements, not my own opinions. I don't think she meant anything disparaging when she made her comments about how nice people looked - quite the contrary. Now that she's checked back in, it's pretty clear that was the case all along. It was a field report and a compliment for her fellow passengers. My heart goes out for you and the others who were so offended by the post.

 

I am totally in the camp that thinks that a nicely dressed crowd improves the ambiance of the dining experience. If there's a dress code and someone doesn't follow it, I think that's inconsiderate.* Does a man without a jacket come across as less civilized than a gentleman with a jacket? It really depends on the situation and the setting. He might. He might not. It depends. And, since it's going to be a judgement call in the eyes of the beholder, there's not a lick either one of us can do about it. People are going to have opinions.

 

Well, it could be because of the numerous derogatory posts directed at those who do not want to wear a jacket or long pants. Let's focus on the term 'considerate'. How many times have you seen someone condemn those who do not want to wear jackets or long pants as showing 'disrespect' which is just a variant of 'inconsiderate'?

 

Probably just as many times as I've seen people disparage tuxedos as "polyester," "ill-fitting," and "1970s." Or as many times as people equate formal women's wear with "mother of the bride." I haven't

actually counted, so it's possible that there might be more posts on the one side of the debate.

 

 

Is it possible that those in this forum that are so easily offended by how others dress in the MDR have "some sort of sartorial chip on" their shoulders?

 

There are people on this forum who are offended by someone posting about men in jackets, so I would imagine so. FWIW, it's probably easier to be offended by something you experience in person than by something you read on your computer, tablet, or other Internet-enabled device.

 

 

One is reminded of Luke 6:42.

 

You really want James 2 2:4. Much better support for your point.

 

When one accuses those who make critical comments of attempting to shut down debate, that accusation is also an attempt to shut down debate.

 

I would never try to shut down debate, especially with you. It would be like deflating the bouncy house.

 

One of the more interesting things about this thread, and dress code threads in general, is how much some people worry about how much other people worry about what other people are wearing. I worry about them. :D

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This is my first cruise and at least my husbands 10th. We are both excited to wear our dressy clothes . He will have a tux and I have a long gown or 2. We enjoying the art of dressing up. I still have hope that people will dress up once again in society but that hope fades . I enjoy flip flops and shorts for out door activities but never wear them in restaurants . I must have an old soul because I don't even own sweat pants and only have 1 pair of jeans . I dress nicely at home unless I am doing house work - then I wear my house dress . And No I am not older just turned 50. Personally find the sloppiness that has taken over in our society sad

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One of the more interesting things about this thread, and dress code threads in general, is how much some people worry about how much other people worry about what other people are wearing. I worry about them. :D

 

Honestly, I do not care what others think. I would care if they were to translate those thoughts into actions such as demanding that other passengers be removed from the MDR or refusing to allow others to be seated at 'their' table. I find it amusing when some demand that others dress in a certain way to show their respect to themselves but are unwilling to respect the wishes of others.

 

BTW, I love the quotation some times posted here: "You wouldn't worry so much about what people think of you if you knew how seldom they do."

 

And thanks for the quotation. It is much more appropriate.

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Honestly, I do not care what others think. I would care if they were to translate those thoughts into actions such as demanding that other passengers be removed from the MDR or refusing to allow others to be seated at 'their' table. I find it amusing when some demand that others dress in a certain way to show their respect to themselves but are unwilling to respect the wishes of others.

 

I agree.

 

HAL is a business. No one is leaving HAL over a person being allowed to eat in the dining room despite the indignant stares of others. Someone is likely leaving HAL if excluded to his embarrassment.

 

You may not want that person's business. Seattle may have another opinion.

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This is my first cruise and at least my husbands 10th. We are both excited to wear our dressy clothes . He will have a tux and I have a long gown or 2. We enjoying the art of dressing up. I still have hope that people will dress up once again in society but that hope fades . I enjoy flip flops and shorts for out door activities but never wear them in restaurants . I must have an old soul because I don't even own sweat pants and only have 1 pair of jeans . I dress nicely at home unless I am doing house work - then I wear my house dress . And No I am not older just turned 50. Personally find the sloppiness that has taken over in our society sad

 

You can still dress up on your cruise. Many do, including DH and I. Reports from recent cruisers are that not much has changed on formal night.

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The rules for dressing on a HAL ship are fully set forth in the conditions of carriage and similar. I obey them to the letter.

 

Please show me anywhere in the conditions of carriage or similar (whatever that means) where anything regarding dress is referred to as a rule.

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I'm amazed that this thread is still going on!

 

 

:confused: What is offensive? I didn't read that post until you quoted it but it is a simple statement that shouldn't offend anyone unless they consider themselves to be uncivilized or inconsiderate. I didn't see the poster directed the comment at anyone specific, did they?

 

I also think it would have been fine if you had posted the entire quote and not snipped it without indicating you had taken out some of what was written.

 

I just went back and found the whole quote:

 

 

Complimenting the way passengers are dressed is offensive to you? You'd absolutely freak out if you travel with us. My wife always tells people when they look nice.

 

I agree with both of you, as read back & saw Ithica Girls comment & can not see where it could be construed as offensive & condescending..:confused:.

 

Just off the Eurodam yesterday...We had late seating & were at a table for 8.. DH wore his suit with a tie on formal, Oop's I mean Gala nights..He did that to please me since I wore a long skirt with a couple of different dressy tops.. I complimented him on how nice he looked, since we rarely get to dress up living in FLA..

 

DH has stopped taking his Tux on shorter cruises, but on a longer cruise will probably take it again..Many men were in jackets san's ties & we saw some in tie no jackets.. Some ladies were in long gowns & some men wore a Tux..IMO every one looked nice..

 

BTW neither of us was offended when others did or did not wear a tie or jacket & don't understand, how it anyone could be offended..We had a nice group at our table...On our last gala night they had steak with a lobster tail on the menu & also French Onion Soup.. Since I prefer the lobster & DH prefers steak, I had his lobster tail & he had my steak.. Our waiter switched them out for us & we were both happy..

 

 

 

Edited by serendipity1499

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Please show me anywhere in the conditions of carriage or similar (whatever that means) where anything regarding dress is referred to as a rule.

 

My point exactly.

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I suspect some of the "I don't wanna you can't make me" posters here are just stirring the pot, and most HAL passengers know how to dress for a nice restaurant.

Kind Sir, thank you for your support. Was just on the Eurodam at the end of October, and was delighted to see people still embracing the idea of dressing appropriately for dinner when the occasion dictated.

Hopefully the folks in Seattle won't fear that the traditional HAL cruisers are either (a) dying off or (b) itching to wear fishnet muscle shirts and flipflops into the MDR. I've done three of CCL's lines, and at feel most comfortable on HAL (Haven't done Cunard yet; waiting for the U-Boat threat in the North Atlantic to subside..what? It has?). I very much enjoy Carnival itself to a certain extent, but usually exceed my threshhold for the Spring-Break atmosphere on anything longer than 4 nights.

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Why is other people's clothing that they choose to wear so important to you that you would see them exiled to a cruise line or restaurant not of their choice if they don't wear what you choose? It doesn't affect the quality of your cabin, your meal, your service.

---Because I find bare middrifts on men somewhat vulgar in a formal dining room.

I remember a rather nice cruise out of San Juan on a Carnival ship; we were seated next to a gentlman and his son, and apparently they felt perfectly comfortable wearing fishnet muscle shirts and gym shorts. Yes, they were seated in the MDR dressed that way. No, that attire was not supposed to be allowed.

 

I'm 'ok' with the MDR admitting gentlemen without ties and jackets on Gala Nights; but I'm hoping that the gentlemen don't then push the envelope down to that level. I would hope that a gentleman inappropriately dressed would feel some measure of discomfort; I know I certainly would.

I myself have skipped many formal nights and dined in the buffet; I don't consider that a hardship what soever.

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