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Jade13

HAL no longer requires formal dress

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Can you believe it? Nearly 4 months and over 40,000 views later, the thread (debate) continues. Having someone in the dining room not adhering to the "requested" or "suggested" dress code is not going to make or break my evening; to me it just shows a lack of respect for those making the request or suggestion.

 

I've experienced some amazing conversations with folks who couldn't afford clean clothes, let alone a tuxedo or gown, and have had some appalling ones with others who could tell what time of day and precisely on which hillside the grapes were picked for the wine they were drinking.

 

Carry on.

 

Smooth Sailing ! :) :) :)

 

Yes, this sums it up. Some people just like to hear the sound of their own voice (or the constant repetition, or preaching from a pulpit, or something.:D)

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I just got off the Eurodam on the 29th. Last Gala Night there was a guy in shorts and flip-flops in the MDR. I believe the thread's subject is certainly correct - no formal or even nice casual dress required.

 

Did the ship sink? Was your time ruined? Maybe the guy's luggage was lost. Judge not...

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HAL owns the line and they can establish the code however they wish. I will respect their rule and honor their guidelines. If I don't like their decision - I will vote with my wallet and not cruise again with HAL. I would not put the the Matre de in a tuff spot by hoping he will allow me to violate the well publicized rule.

 

I am a supporter of people following the dress code - period.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Agreed:

- the cruise line can establish rules of behavior on their ships.

- the passengers have an obligation to follow those rules.

 

That does not resolve any of the difference in opinions on this thread. While some insist upon their right to dress as they see fit, no one has denied that the cruise line can deny entrance as they see fit.

 

Your argument really isn't all that helpful in resolving the main point of contention which has been about what the rules should be. And, no, it's nor particularly helpful to say the rules should be whatever the cruise lines says they should be. Such arguments are useful only to those who want to shut down debate over the content of the rules in order to maintain the status quo.

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My question was quite simple. If a couple of passengers come to sit at your table and baggy pants down to their knees.... would you be happy or would you not be happy OR would you wish them had worn their collared shirt and ironed ... as you have?

 

Suppose we stipulate that these pants are allowed by the dress code and further stipulate that you are unhappy to be seated with these individuals. I submit that:

1. you do not have the right to make a commotion over their dress or insist they be seated somewhere else since the cruise line has decided to allow them to be seated, ie, they satisfy the code.

2. since you cannot, nor should you try, to control the actions of others you will be far happier if you focus your attention on the things you can control such as your reactions rather than the behavior of others. Quite simply, it's your choice. You can choose to enjoy your cruise or you can choose not to.

3. you certainly retain the right to ask to be moved as long as this is done in a manner that doesn't embarrass to your fellow passengers.

 

BTW, suppose those individuals were already seated and you did not realize how they were dressed until after you had enjoyed a wonderful meal and they got up to leave. How is this different from the situation you proposed? In your scenario, you had a lesser time but only because you let your emotions color your reaction. In my scenario, you had a wonderful time even though their dress was the same. The only difference is your emotional reaction.

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Our perspective is that it is NONE of our business what other people wear in the MDR-formal nights or otherwise.

 

If the Maitre'd admits them, then from our perspective all is well. We do not go on a cruise to police what others wear, interpret the cruise line dress code, or enforce it. That is the purview of the cruise line management team.

 

We mind our own business and are far too busy enjoying ourselves to bother about the particular dress code. We don't judge others by what they wear nor does what someone else wears have any impact on whether we enjoy our meal. Actually we find the conversation much more interesting than the attire.

Edited by iancal

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I am always batting around the idea of a HAL cruise, but have not been on one yet.

 

Let me ask; how come relaxing of the dress code and elimination of formal nights suddenly brings out people talking about

 

Saggy pants

Sideways hats

Shorts at dinner

etc.

 

I think it is absurd. I do not think you will suddenly see those things just because the dress code has been relaxed a little bit. It makes no sense. And you can still dress just as nicely as you please. Why is it that people that were generally in compliance (with some discretion this way or that) are suddenly thought to all be showing up in sweat pants and undershirts? I just don't believe it will happen.

 

On a similarly related note, since formal night is gone, can anyone tell me exactly WHAT is Gala night? The HAL website just has marketing speak and doesn't really say much of anything.

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The BOTTOM LINE for any rule or dress code should be that if you are going to make one you should enforce it. The entire fault for this kind of discussion falls on the cruise line and its employees. If the dress code is presented as a guideline rather than a code, then it leaves the entire decision up to the guest. However, if the dress rules are presented as a "dress code" it becomes a rule or law of the ship and should be enforced at all times.

 

I learned a long time ago not to make a rule about something that I was not prepared to enforce lest my word would become foolish. It's kind of like drawing a line in the sand and then looking away when someone crosses it because you don't have the gumption to grow a pair. It's time the cruise lines "grew a pair" and either enforce their rules of abolish them.

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Your argument really isn't all that helpful in resolving the main point of contention which has been about what the rules should be. .

 

 

I suggest you start a new thread with the title "what is the optimum cruise line dress code for investors and passengers that will maximize happiness, revenue and return on investment"

 

This thread has drifted too far and now we are arguing about what the argument is about.

 

Start a new thread

Edited by The-Inside-Cabin

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<snip> It's time the cruise lines "grew a pair" and either enforce their rules of abolish them.

 

agree 100%.

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I Let me ask; how come relaxing of the dress code and elimination of formal nights suddenly brings out people talking about

 

 

 

Saggy pants

 

Sideways hats

 

Shorts at dinner

 

etc.

 

 

 

I think it is absurd. I do not think you will suddenly see those things just because the dress code has been relaxed a little bit. It makes no sense. And you can still dress just as nicely as you please. Why is it that people that were generally in compliance (with some discretion this way or that) are suddenly thought to all be showing up in sweat pants and undershirts? I just don't believe it will happen. .

 

 

I can imagine the Cruisecritic post if it existed 20 years ago:

 

"So what is the big deal about no longer requiring formal wear on formal night. Every man certainly has a nice suit and tie. Just because a tux is no longer required doesn't mean people will show up at a special dinner wearing khakis and a golf shirt. I don't believe it will happen. "

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We enjoy formal, or now "gala" nights. But one of the things we like about it is the feeling of the whole ship being festive and special. While the dress of any one passenger or family doesnt bother me at all, at some point if enough people dont follow the dress code, it feels pointless to follow it for us, because the festive environment isnt there.

 

While I would definitely wish people would follow the code to the best they can/their preference, I dont think it's right to expect them to if they dont want to do so. Clearly the tide is turning on this, less people dress for formal nights, and the ship doesnt have the same formal night feel to me. What I dont like is the "try to please everyone approach"....with those that want to dress doing so, and others not..... To me that seems a little pointless other than giving people the ok to wear whatever they want...which isn't that the case every other night anyway? people can wear what they want?....that's why the try to please everyone makes no sense to me. Not because I am bothered by what others wear, but becuase it's so watered down it's hard to find the point.

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Has anyone ever refused to sit with people because how they are dressed?

 

Sometime ago, perhaps a bit more than a year, several (two or three) posters said they had refused to allow other passengers to be seated at 'their table' because they did not feel they adhered to the dress code. Whether this was just bragging or actually happened is subject to debate.

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Sometime ago, perhaps a bit more than a year, several (two or three) posters said they had refused to allow other passengers to be seated at 'their table' because they did not feel they adhered to the dress code. Whether this was just bragging or actually happened is subject to debate.

 

How many debates can one participate in in one single thread? I think you are already busy enough debating other issues. :rolleyes:

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I am always batting around the idea of a HAL cruise, but have not been on one yet.

 

Let me ask; how come relaxing of the dress code and elimination of formal nights suddenly brings out people talking about

 

Saggy pants

Sideways hats

Shorts at dinner

etc.

 

I think it is absurd. I do not think you will suddenly see those things just because the dress code has been relaxed a little bit. It makes no sense. And you can still dress just as nicely as you please. Why is it that people that were generally in compliance (with some discretion this way or that) are suddenly thought to all be showing up in sweat pants and undershirts? I just don't believe it will happen.

 

On a similarly related note, since formal night is gone, can anyone tell me exactly WHAT is Gala night? The HAL website just has marketing speak and doesn't really say much of anything.

 

 

 

Why do people talk about 'baggy pants', etc.,? It's called a slippery slope argument and it's one of the common logical fallacies. The essence of the argument is this; if A happens, then B is inevitable and since B is bad we need to prevent A. The slippery slope argument attempts to avoid the issue at hand (should the dress code be changed) and attempts to change the subject to extreme hypotheticals (baggy pants, etc). It can only become a logical sound argument if one can demonstrate that A will actually cause B.

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Has anyone ever refused to sit with people because how they are dressed?

 

I haven't seen it, but it might come to that as HAL embraces "Anything Goes." We've never had that be an issue, but we like the fixed dining time. I think people who like that traditional aspect of cruising mostly like the tradition of dressing for dinner, too. That is NOT to say that open seating passengers don't dress up, just that one tradition is likely to go with another.

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I am always batting around the idea of a HAL cruise, but have not been on one yet.

 

Let me ask; how come relaxing of the dress code and elimination of formal nights suddenly brings out people talking about

 

Saggy pants

Sideways hats

Shorts at dinner

etc.

 

I think it is absurd. I do not think you will suddenly see those things just because the dress code has been relaxed a little bit. It makes no sense. And you can still dress just as nicely as you please. Why is it that people that were generally in compliance (with some discretion this way or that) are suddenly thought to all be showing up in sweat pants and undershirts? I just don't believe it will happen.

 

On a similarly related note, since formal night is gone, can anyone tell me exactly WHAT is Gala night? The HAL website just has marketing speak and doesn't really say much of anything.

 

You have just identified one of the specialties of HAL's website, saying a lot without saying ANYTHING.

 

My interpretation of Gala night is that it's "formal optional," but they didn't have the guts to come right out and say it. They had become afraid to say "formal" any more, because it gives people anxiety attacks--oh no! I have to dress up. So they went to "Gala." For those who like formal nights, it gives the illusion of a dressy occasion (I'm not buying it, but I think THEY think they're fooling me). For those who don't like formal nights, it allows them to avoid the dressy clothes.

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In September, just after the policy changed, I didn't see much difference. I made a point of excusing myself to go to the loo, and since we were way at the back of the upper level, I was able to take a circular route and get a good look at the "ambient" wardrobe. I think I counted 4 or 5 men without jackets. All the other men were wearing jackets. I'll be curious to see if it's different on our Feb cruise when more people are likely to have learned about the change.
Last week on the Eurodam on the 1st Gala night at Open Seating, early, I did a walk-around and saw about 60% of the men with both jacket and tie, 30% with jacket OR tie, and a smattering of just collared shirts or tuxes. I noticed none without at least a collared shirt.

 

I just got off the Eurodam on the 29th. Last Gala Night there was a guy in shorts and flip-flops in the MDR. I believe the thread's subject is certainly correct - no formal or even nice casual dress required.
And I saw a man with shorts turned away on a smart casual night!

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I haven't seen it, but it might come to that as HAL embraces "Anything Goes." We've never had that be an issue, but we like the fixed dining time. I think people who like that traditional aspect of cruising mostly like the tradition of dressing for dinner, too. That is NOT to say that open seating passengers don't dress up, just that one tradition is likely to go with another.

 

I used to do fixed but I've done open for a while now. I can't say that I've noticed any difference in dress. I've seen people bending the rules in both. The strangest thing Ive heard was at a Mariners brunch on the Veendam. A lady was complaining about how people were dressed. She was wearing pants and a tshirt. Pot meet kettle.

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I used to do fixed but I've done open for a while now. I can't say that I've noticed any difference in dress. I've seen people bending the rules in both. The strangest thing Ive heard was at a Mariners brunch on the Veendam. A lady was complaining about how people were dressed. She was wearing pants and a tshirt. Pot meet kettle.

 

Do you remember the thread a few months back where someone said that the invitation to the Mariner brunch said "no sandals"??? HAL does pick odd battles.

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It seems to me that there is a world of difference between a 'guideline' and a rule.

 

I cannot imagine how someone would not be allowed into the MDR for not adhering to a 'guideline'. It is only a suggestion.

 

I can however understand that if there was a rule that required shirt, tie, jacket then I could see the Maitre d' refusing entry to anyone not dressed according to the rules of the room.

 

This is strictly a HAL issue, not a customer issue.

Edited by iancal

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It seems to me that there is a world of difference between a 'guideline' and a rule.

 

I cannot imagine how someone would not be allowed into the MDR for not adhering to a 'guideline'. It is only a suggestion.

 

I can however understand that if there was a rule that required shirt, tie, jacket then I could see the Maitre d' refusing entry to anyone not dressed according to the rules of the room.

 

This is strictly a HAL issue, not a customer issue.

 

They should have a guideline that requests that passengers adhere to the guidelines. Without that, it's chaos!

Edited by Blue Mudshark

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Guest Attire

 

Q: Did HAL change their dress code?

A: Yes, some refinements were made to improve consistency and the policy now reads:

Most evenings smart casual attire is appropriate. Shorts, pool/beachwear, distressed jeans and men’s tank tops are best left to the daytime and are not permitted in fine dining restaurants.

Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests dress to impress for special events on board, including our five-course gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. For gentlemen, collared shirts and slacks are required in all fine dining restaurants.

Q: Why the change from “Formal” To “Gala” night?

A: To many, the “Formal” term was misleading as it implies a specific type of dress (black tie or tuxedo) that has never been a requirement. “Gala” still implies festive or dressy without misleading guests to bring attire the majority of guests don’t wear.

Q: What about ladies’ gala attire?

A: Dressy attire is appropriate. Dresses, skirts, and slacks are all acceptable.

Q: Are a jacket and tie required for men?

A: Jacket and tie is the preferred attire in all fine dining restaurants on Gala Nights, though it is not required. Guests without a jacket and tie were allowed in the fine dining restaurants before the new wording so this is not a policy change.

Q: Are jeans allowed?

A: Jeans without holes, tears or embroidery are welcome on most evenings in all restaurants, but on Gala Nights jeans are only allowed in the casual dining restaurants.

Q: Can I wear shorts in the main dining room?

A: Not at dinner. The dining room is considered a fine dining restaurant and shorts are not permitted.

Q: Is the dress code the same on Grand Voyages?

A: Yes. The policy applies to all Holland America Line voyages.

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Interestingly the only time I have had a problem with dress code was on carnival Breeze. We were turned awY from the steak place because my husband was in dressy linen Shorts and a long sleeved button down with dressy loafers. I was in a dress and heels. We were told he needed pants and we laughed and got them. Didn't think a thing about being told to change until we were seated next to a couple wearing jeans and tshirts. Then I was annoyed, my husband looked much dressier in his Bermuda linen dress shorts and dress shirt than the guy next to us, who looked like he was going to mow his yard.

But at least the rule was kinda enforced lol

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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