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tml1230
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I did a little research about the PVSA. If they dropped Ensenada for a mechanical malfunction, they would not have been granted an exception. The fine would have been $300 per passenger. That would have cost Princess almost $1M. I know they are spending more than that on the compensation package, but they have a bunch of very satisfied passengers.

 

As for how NCL avoids the foreign port - they have one ship under U.S. registry that sails the islands. They used to have three, but they deployed two elsewhere, re-registered them in Nassau or some such place, and renamed the ships.

 

I think Ensenada is an armpit, but I understand why they still have to stop there on the way back to S.F. The PVSA is an archaic piece of legislation, but I guess the decision-makers have bigger fish to fry.

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Have any of you burger lovers tried Smash Burger? Yet another interesting casual burger chain to add to your list. I love their Smash Fries. Thin cut fries drizzled with olive oil, and rosemary and garlic. Yummy!

 

Sounds good now my mouth is watering. Where is Smash Burger?

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I did a little research about the PVSA. If they dropped Ensenada for a mechanical malfunction, they would not have been granted an exception. The fine would have been $300 per passenger. That would have cost Princess almost $1M. I know they are spending more than that on the compensation package, but they have a bunch of very satisfied passengers.

 

As for how NCL avoids the foreign port - they have one ship under U.S. registry that sails the islands. They used to have three, but they deployed two elsewhere, re-registered them in Nassau or some such place, and renamed the ships.

 

I think Ensenada is an armpit, but I understand why they still have to stop there on the way back to S.F. The PVSA is an archaic piece of legislation, but I guess the decision-makers have bigger fish to fry.

Maybe it's time to write our congressman about this. I hate even letting Ensenada have our port charges, and we never leave the ship. But as you say, there are bigger issues for Congress right now. They don't want to trade votes for this to get something they think is more important passed. And it would probably be vetoed anyway.

 

Personally, we're not sure about redoing Hawaii again, and reading about losing 3 Hawaiian ports isn't helping. We've been averaging Hawaii from the Pacific Coast once every four years and I'd sure hate to make it our one big trip to lose most of it.

 

But they did well on the compensation package. Having Dave Cole as CD is a plus. We didn't had someone else, and very poor programming.

Edited by knittinggirl
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Any word / rumors / speculation how this will affect future sailings?

 

I talked with a Princess rep and she said that future sailings were unaffected but she seemed like not the swiftest arrow and also said she was quite sure the Titanic would arrive in New York on time.

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Don't know. It's a pretty long stretch from Ensenada to San Francisco. Wonder if they'll need to cut it short. When we were there, two of our table mates said the ship stayed until 8 PM, because one of the ship's tours broke down.

 

Wonder how long they must stay there to count it as a port of call.

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PVSA had enough busy lawyers to recently raise the fee for non-compliance, sometime after 2000.

 

Also, it's called a Hawaiian Island Cruise, not a Hawaii and Mexico cruise. They altered the cruise to remove 3/4 of the Hawaiian Islands. But they keep Ensenada Mexico. Also, Ensenada really isn't a far distant port they say must fulfill their rules. But I heard they wrote an exception into the PVSA for Ensenada and Vancouver.

 

NCL found a way to make a Hawaiian cruise w/o forcing the passengers to pay a foreign port fee. Why not Princess? Because they don't want to hire all US citizens and get the ship built here.

 

"NCL found a way to make a Hawaiian cruise w/o forcing the passengers to pay a foreign port fee." Don't understand your point in cranking all that meaningless lawyer innuendo in here and then suggesting "Why not Princess? Because they don't want to hire all US citizens and get the ship built here?" My gosh, in reality, that's prepostorus.

 

Sounds like you have your historical events completely mixed up concerning NCL's reason they got out of visiting a foreign port (Fanning Island).

 

Unless I really missed something, basically, it took an Act of Congress for that to occur. But that only happened because Congress painted itself in a corner by guaranteeing construction of two vessels in the shipyards located in President of the US Senate's, Trent Lott, home state , Mississippi. Unfortunately for us all, owner/future operator of those two vessels, American Classic Voyages, went bankrupt as a result of the 9/11 visitation crash and the US government got stuck with the tab. Long story short, the unfinished ship hulls were moved to Europe, NCL bailed the government out and took ownership and finished construction, in return NCL got into a complicated deal with congress where they could operate three ships in Hawaii without going out to Fanning Island. NCL didn't fare much better financially though in their Hawaiian operations, so cut the venture to one ship, the Pride of America, which incidentally was the only legitimate American hull. That is the way it stands today.

 

"A contract was signed with the Litton-Ingalls yard in Mississippi for construction of the two new ships for United States Lines under the code name Project America. The US government contributed considerable support in the form of loan guarantees, tax credits and a construction mortgage from the Maritime Administration. American Classic Voyages planned to have put six vessels into service by 2004"

 

"After the September 11 terrorist attacks caused a slump in the cruise industry, the company started losing large amounts of money. A month after the terrorist attacks, in October 2001, American Classic Voyages filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, reporting assets of just over $37 million and liabilities of nearly $453 million."

 

"The unfinished Project America hulls were later purchased for USD $24 million and completed for Norwegian Cruise Line, the resulting ship being the Pride of America. Additional parts from the other mainly unfinished Project America hull were later refitted onto the Pride of Hawaii. Pride of America continues to sail Hawaiian cruises for NCL America, while Pride of Hawaii was eventually transferred to Norwegian Cruise Line as Norwegian Jade."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Vessel_Services_Act_of_1886

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Hello,

 

This is a note to those of you monitoring this forum and sailing on the Grand on December 20th... Several of us from this sailing have been monitoring the forum for the sailing that's in progress... The reports from the members have been VERY informative and MOST welcome... I am planning to post any pertinent information during the 12/10-20/15 cruise to Mexico on its' forum as a way of saying "Thanks" to the people on board now heading to Ensenada and then San Francisco that have kept us "up to speed". I would not be surprised if other members of our excellent forum group do the same.

 

Vaya con Locos,

 

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........

 

Future Cruise Credits have to be created in specific amounts, there's really no way to do it as a percentage of a future, unknown fare.

 

 

It can be done. Carnival does a percentage. Mom sailed last December on the Miracle to HI. Lots of issues with missing ports etc. They were each given a 25% credit to be used on a future sailing.

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Don't know. It's a pretty long stretch from Ensenada to San Francisco. Wonder if they'll need to cut it short. When we were there, two of our table mates said the ship stayed until 8 PM, because one of the ship's tours broke down.

 

Wonder how long they must stay there to count it as a port of call.

 

I don't think long during the flu attacks in Mexico they ships didn't even disembark and they called it a service call or some such. Used to be that way from Hawaii too.

I have to say (although this is an unpopular stance) we love Ensenada. There is a store there that has things from all over Mexico and is run by a wonderful lady. It has unusual things. We like Hussong's too as well as places along the main drag we had insane Guacamole at one restaurant and the bartender made the Margaritas from fresh limes to order.

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I have to say (although this is an unpopular stance) we love Ensenada.

 

I agree,

 

The year before last... and the year before that... Mazatlan was out so Ensenada was a port of call... I knew Ensenada from when I used to have a weekend place in South Rosarito... Nothing is better than brunch at El Rey Sol, a restaurant on the corner across (cross corner) from the Villa Marina Hotel, the only high rise in Ensenada... The restaurant is over 100 years old, has a French influence and the food is INCREDIBLE!!!

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But they keep Ensenada Mexico. Also, Ensenada really isn't a far distant port they say must fulfill their rules. But I heard they wrote an exception into the PVSA for Ensenada and Vancouver.

 

Think you heard wrong. Also, it is Victoria BC where Princess often ports during its Seattle to Seattle, Alaska cruises in order to comply with the PVS Act.

 

Note: that departing from and returning to the "SAME" US port requires a visit to "ANY" foreign port---while departing from a U.S. Port then returning to a "SECOND" U.S. Port requires a visit to a "DISTANT" foreign port.

 

"The Passenger Vessel Services Act, however,

 

does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from and returning to the same U.S. port, provided the ship visits any foreign port;

 

does not prohibit foreign-flagged ships departing from a U.S. port, visiting a distant foreign port, and then continuing to a second U.S. port. However, in order to embark in a U.S. port and disembark in a second U.S. port, the vessel must visit a distant foreign port outside of North America (Central America, Bermuda the Bahamas, and all of the Caribbean except Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao count as part of North America);"

Edited by kennicott
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I talked with a Princess rep and she said that future sailings were unaffected but she seemed like not the swiftest arrow and also said she was quite sure the Titanic would arrive in New York on time.

 

Just of note, there were rooms available on our cruise as well as the one on the 20th just yesterday....but now, on the Princess website both these cruises show as sold out in every category. I know there really weren't a lot of rooms left on either itinerary but there were some. I believe they may have cut off any new sales as they don't want to have to compensate even a few more passengers if something goes wrong on these next two cruises. I am just speculating but your statement above tends to lend a little credence to this theory.

Wonder when we will be notified of what is really going to happen. I just cannot imagine there will be some type of delay or a missed port ... and I would assume that would be the southernmost port, Manzanillo. This was kind of the reason for booking this cruise but luckily, I booked a tour in this port through Princess....so not really out anything. Again...just all speculation on my part and will probably be proven wrong.

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Note: that departing from and returning to the "SAME" US port requires a visit to "ANY" foreign port---while departing from a U.S. Port then returning to a "SECOND" U.S. Port requires a visit to a "DISTANT" foreign port. "The Passenger Vessel Services Act" ...

 

And all of this is done to "protect" the "vibrant" business being done by U.S. flagged carriers providing passenger service between U.S. ports on the Pacific and Atlantic coasts!!! (Total number of such carriers? My guess is ZERO!)

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I don't think long during the flu attacks in Mexico they ships didn't even disembark and they called it a service call or some such. Used to be that way from Hawaii too.

I have to say (although this is an unpopular stance) we love Ensenada. There is a store there that has things from all over Mexico and is run by a wonderful lady. It has unusual things. We like Hussong's too as well as places along the main drag we had insane Guacamole at one restaurant and the bartender made the Margaritas from fresh limes to order.

 

We like Ensenada as well and only got to disembark there because our cruise ran into a CAT hurricane and we did not get to go to Mazatlan or Puerto Vallarta.

 

When we did the round trip Hawaii cruise from San Diego on Holland America we pulled into Ensenada at 11pm. They checked the paperwork and by midnight we were on our way out of the harbor. It was listed as a "service call" on the itinerary.

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I am one of the passengers that disembarked in Honolulu and opted to fly back to sfo. I don't really have anything to complain about other than the disappointment of not getting to see the other islands. For me, it was more of a personal preference as we had already experienced quite a few sea days on our way there and experienced most of the onboard food and entertainment. I can understand other people complaining if they are currently working and it took quite some time to acquire the paid time off at work only to find out the 15 night cruise they signed up for only visited Honolulu.

 

I think Princess did an excellent job with keeping the passengers happy. I enjoyed my stay at the Hilton Hawaiian Village on Waikiki and had no issues with the booked flight out of Hawaii.

 

Here are a couple of poor quality photos (my apologies) of the view from the balcony of the hotel room just after sunset and after sunset with the grand princess departing in the background.

WP_20151202_002.jpg.848b20ba2e516c7820fb745ae5e60e74.jpg

WP_20151202_006.jpg.374c69133e4989f1ae2aeabbe7d44293.jpg

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PVSA had enough busy lawyers to recently raise the fee for non-compliance, sometime after 2000.

 

Also, it's called a Hawaiian Island Cruise, not a Hawaii and Mexico cruise. They altered the cruise to remove 3/4 of the Hawaiian Islands. But they keep Ensenada Mexico. Also, Ensenada really isn't a far distant port they say must fulfill their rules. But I heard they wrote an exception into the PVSA for Ensenada and Vancouver.

 

NCL found a way to make a Hawaiian cruise w/o forcing the passengers to pay a foreign port fee. Why not Princess? Because they don't want to hire all US citizens and get the ship built here.

 

A round trip cruise (beginning and ending in the same US city) does NOT require a far distant port. Just a foreign port.

 

There are no requirements in the PVSA for a far distant port. There are requirements for distant ports (when the cruise ends at a different US city than it began the cruise from).

 

There are no exceptions in the PVSA for Ensenada or Vancouver.

 

NCL has a US flagged ship. There are several requirements necessary for a ship to be a US flagged ship. It must be built in the US and crewed by US citizens. It must also follow US labor laws. All of this greatly increases the cost of operating the ship.

 

NCL started out with three US flagged ships in Hawaii. It ran into several problems:

 

1) US citizens are not as service oriented as some foreign citizens, especially those from the Orient. The US passengers were not very happy with the level of service.

 

2) The cost of running the ship kept the cost high. Hawaii has less citizens than Los Angeles has. Thus, most of the passengers came from the US mainland. After paying for the flight and the cruise, the passengers found out that they could fly to Los Angeles or San Francisco, take the two week cruise and save money.

 

3) When NCL discovered that it could not support three ships in Hawaii, it sent two of the ships away. The other cruise lines took notice. So far none of the cruise lines have shown any interest in repeating NCL's mistake.

 

However, if you don't like what Princess is offering, NCL has a ship in Hawaii with your name on it.

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I wonder how much harder it would be for the San Francisco closed loops to stop in Victoria instead of Ensenada. Personally, I'd rather add another sea day if it mean skipping Ensenada in favor of Victoria. I bet Princess would sell more shore excursions too.

 

Made sense for the San Diego embarkation ports, not so much for leaving from San Francisco.

 

I'd rather have a longer cruise than that long flight to Hawaii.

Edited by knittinggirl
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Just curious. How much did they end up refunding you in Hawaiian Port Charges? Did they split them out by port?

 

We just finished a wonderful cruise that had us boarding in a tent in Quebec City, and midway though the cruise, we each got a port charge refund. Probably boarding from a tent, and hauling our carry-ons up in the elements.

 

The refund was for the ENTIRE cost of the cruise. That includes port charges, starboard charges, and cabin charges. If Princess refunds any more, then Princess would be paying the passengers to cruise. I guess that would be a nice job to have.

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Maybe it's time to write our congressman about this. I hate even letting Ensenada have our port charges, and we never leave the ship. But as you say, there are bigger issues for Congress right now. They don't want to trade votes for this to get something they think is more important passed. And it would probably be vetoed anyway.

 

The last time anyone tried to modify the PVSA, it was to make it stronger, not weaker.

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The refund was for the ENTIRE cost of the cruise. That includes port charges, starboard charges, and cabin charges. If Princess refunds any more, then Princess would be paying the passengers to cruise. I guess that would be a nice job to have.

Sorry, forgot about that.

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Don't know. It's a pretty long stretch from Ensenada to San Francisco. Wonder if they'll need to cut it short. When we were there, two of our table mates said the ship stayed until 8 PM, because one of the ship's tours broke down.

 

Wonder how long they must stay there to count it as a port of call.

 

Long enough to get their log stamped by the port. Before NCL tried to make the PVSA stronger, ships used to stop in the middle of the night for about one hour. Nobody was allowed of the ship. It even said that in the itinerary. Since NCL made a big stink about it, the cruise lines have voluntarily made it a real port call.

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I think I would have flown home too. Prefer Not to chance it.

Thats too many Sea days for me and Not enuf ports.

 

Yes, I also agree Ensenada is a long way along the Pacific coast, if ship has issues or weather can get rough.

 

Appreciate those posting on this thread. Seems Princess is doing a good job compensating you.

 

I must say, I changed Ports for our upcoming March cruise, so as to take different ship, instead of Grand. Hoping to have a better outcome.

 

Been on other ships with issues.... So if it can be avoided by taking a newer ship, or whatever? Thats what I would prefer to do from the onset.

 

Good luck to those who stayed onboard, and hope you get back safely with no more mechanical difficulties.

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I wonder how much harder it would be for the San Francisco closed loops to stop in Victoria instead of Ensenada. Personally, I'd rather add another sea day if it mean skipping Ensenada in favor of Victoria. I bet Princess would sell more shore excursions too.

 

Made sense for the San Diego embarkation ports, not so much for leaving from San Francisco.

 

I'd rather have a longer cruise than that long flight to Hawaii.

 

Victoria is very popular this time of year with people heading to Hawaii to get AWAY from the COLD. I'll bet ice fishing, igloo making and snowball wars would be very popular shore excursions.

 

Okay people, we are going to Hawaii. Don't forget to pack a parka, thermal underwear and snowshoes.

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