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Unhappy people on the Oosterdam 10/15/05


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I doubt we'll have swarms of kiddos on the Noordam's maiden voyage, and as for the Oosterdam next January ... that's the first week back from the New Years break ... I doubt there will be many kids missing school that week. But ... we'll see, won't we? Any kids who DO show up will be excellent skeet-substitutes. :)

I just found this out recently ... from someone who I work with ... do you know that many public school systems actually PERMIT parents to pull the kids out of class for vacations of one week or less per year? This girl I work with is pulling her kid out for a family trip and told me that she is being very upfront with the teacher since there is nothing wrong with what she is doing.

 

I was shocked.

 

Not when I was a kid, parents didn't do that. And, if they did ... they made sure to lie about the reason for the absence and probably get the family doctor to write a medical note. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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No one is saying they should give up group bookings. All we are saying is that groups should not get perks to the point where other paying passengers ... passengers who are often paying even more per day that the group members ... are being denied ammenities they have paid for. In the case of your group ... the Hudson room is no big deal. That's probably classified as a meeting space anyway. Having a lounge one evening after the entertainment is over is also no big deal. There are loads of other venues aboard ship that the displaced passengers can go to have a nightcap or whatever.

 

--rita

 

Sorry Rita, you misunderstood me... I think this was horrible on HAL's part. The really crazy part is that HAL expects us to believe this wasn't even a real group, that every one of those passengers did this on there own... That's not even a remote possibility, this would have been blocked as a group long ago...

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But taking a group and giving them exclusive second seating, to the point where other passengers not part of the group are now forced to take first seating ... even if they have already been confirmed for second ... is just not fair. That's allowing the group to take over the ship ... which is unacceptable unless they've chartered it.

 

So, of course, cruise lines will book large groups. Travel agents love groups too. Groups are money. But the cruise line needs to enforce certain standards ... and primary among them is that passengers onboard ship who are not part of the group have to be catered to as well. If the group's needs require them to monopolize the ship facilities, then they should be encouraged to just charter the dammed ship exclusively for their group.

 

While I've snipped some of Rita's post, I agree with her completely.

 

And I might also point out that members of online message boards, such as this one on Cruise Critic and a couple other web sites, seem eager to participate in large group sailings. While I don't know any that have approached the 1000-passenger mark, there are some that number in the hundreds. This week there are two fairly large message board groups on Royal Caribbean that, by my estimate, constitute approximately 15% of the passengers of one mega-ship. Not enough to charter the vessel or take over an entire dinner seating, but certainly large enough to be noticed (and potentially offensive). Why? Because they have planned things such as door decorating contests, balcony decorating, their own slot machine 'pull,' a 'pub crawl,' and other events. One group even sets up an 'office' in a specified spot so they always have an area where group members can congregate. It wouldn't surprise me if a lounge is not set aside for each group to have an evening cocktail party, thus making it off-limits to other passengers.

 

This thread has reinforced my thinking that individually booked passengers aren't charmed by in-your-face group activities, whether the group is large or small. I've been on many cruises that had groups on board and have even been a group passenger myself several times, but I don't recall this situation being as distasteful in the past. Groups aren't going away... they are big money-makers, not only for the cruise lines, but for organizations such as Cruise Critic and those home-based marketers that sponsor them as well.

 

Good topic for discussion.

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Groups aren't going away... they are big money-makers, not only for the cruise lines, but for organizations such as Cruise Critic and those home-based marketers that sponsor them as well.

 

Good topic for discussion.

 

You are correct, they aren't going away... The cruise lines would market exclusively to groups if they could, that is all they push... The only thing I disagree with is that home based seems to be the culprit. Most home based groups are along the lines of the smaller, tastefull groups you mention. It takes some real manpower to handle a large group and most home based agents don't have that. There are exceptions of course.

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The only thing I disagree with is that home based seems to be the culprit. Most home based groups are along the lines of the smaller, tastefull groups you mention. It takes some real manpower to handle a large group and most home based agents don't have that. There are exceptions of course.

 

The reason I mentioned "home based" marketers was because that is the type of group that started the discussion. I don't mean home based travel agents, I had marketers such as Amway in mind.

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The reason I mentioned "home based" marketers was because that is the type of group that started the discussion. I don't mean home based travel agents, I had marketers such as Amway in mind.

 

Okay, thanks much for the clarification, I misunderstood and you are correct!

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This really has me LOL... There is NO WAY a company is going to book 1000 passengers individually and give up all the perks and profits that go along with having a group that large. Without this being a group booking they wouldn't have access to any of the rooms, etc... I would be furious...

 

On the record, we have a small group on the 10/22 Oosterdam and have the Hudson room most afternoons and the Queens lounge one evening AFTER all official entertainment.

I am also on this sailing. Do you mind me asking how small is your small group?
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Quite a few people go bumped off that cruise because of it being chartered. I hope our paths cross while we're on the ship.:D

 

Janice,

 

Thank you, so do I!:) The charters and big groups are coming in waves now. The Haloween cruise on the Oosterdam is charter for next year too and our sailing for next year (Oosterdam 10/21) has one group of 400 and another at 150! Just got those figures from our rep...

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Janice,

 

Thank you, so do I!:) The charters and big groups are coming in waves now. The Haloween cruise on the Oosterdam is charter for next year too and our sailing for next year (Oosterdam 10/21) has one group of 400 and another at 150! Just got those figures from our rep...

I'll be on a CC group cruise next year (Westerdam 10/29) to the Caribbean. There's only about 50 of us now but it's a whole year away so that number will probably grow.:D
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Have been reading this thread with great interest. My husband and I were on the October 8th sailing of the Oosterdam - our first HAL cruise. That means we were disembarking on the day that the current passengers had their plans turned upside down by HAL management (evidently).

 

Last February, we had a horrific experience on the NCL Spirit when 800 vulgar, rowdy, destructive, and drunk University of Florida students took over the ship.

 

In front of elderly people and small children, these young people were screaming the "F----" word, pushing people, vandalizing beautiful art, having to be carried onto tenders in rough seas (too drunk to walk), getting into fights, throwing the ice cream machine overboard, etc. Watching some of them in the hot tubs was like looking at scenes from "The Bachelor" - ick!

 

We had a suite so that saved us. The couple traveling with us joined us often in the suite to get away from the spring breakers. Who would have thought there would be a spring break in February?!

 

I am a U of F alumni and have stopped giving contributions because the behavior of the students was so disgusting. AND the university's activities program booked this cruise for students at a special rate!

 

I wrote a letter to the university president - no response. Oh, wait! I did receive a call at home, asking me to contribute money!

 

One other point I wanted to make: Just retired from 25 years of teaching in the public schools. The teachers hate it that parents can pull kids out for vacations. Even though families are told that it's the student's responsibility to catch up, I can't tell you how many times I put in extra work to keep the student on target. (If I didn't, the parents would have stormed the principal's office. I would have been painted as a teacher who didn't care about the success of my students, etc.)

 

I guess group cruises are here to stay. I appreciate having a website that may give me a "heads up" to what is happening with various group bookings. If I discover information on my own, I'll be sure to contribute.

 

Our cabin steward on the Oosterdam was just marvelous, but he looked tired. He told us that he doesn't get any days off - just a four month break after a 10 month commitment at sea. During the four months off - no paycheck.

 

Likewise, I watched the wonderful crew of the NCL Spirit get overwhelmed by the spring breakers last February. By the way: Things got so bad that Miami police were flown in to board the ship. The captain put three people off in Roatan. Not a good situation for passengers or crew!

 

Well, hopefully, this week's Oosterdam passengers will find ways to enjoy themselves. The Mexican Riviera was really gorgeous!

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QUOTE: Who would have thought there would be a spring break in February?!

 

 

LOL! You are going to have kids, both families and college students, on all mass-market cruiselines from mid-February through Easter. Count on it. Different universities and school systems are out different weeks, but that entire time period is covered with winter, spring, and Easter breaks. :eek:

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Now, I'm getting really worried about our 4th December sailing on the Westerdam. I can now see we have 4 groups. I only hope they are small groups. I agree with Sail7Seas, there is no way I would accept being moved to early seating dinner. There is no doubt that having to be ready for dinner at 6.15 or even earlier would totally and utterly ruin our cruise. I have never booked a cruise unless I can get late seating. I couldn't imagine what we'd do for the evening, if we'd finished dinner by 8.00. We're not into shows, casino etc and usually go straight to bed after dinner and have a nightcap on our balcony. Got our documents already though - which is pretty impressive and it does say Confirmed 8.00 pm, so fingers crossed. Sue

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This week there are two fairly large message board groups on Royal Caribbean that, by my estimate, constitute approximately 15% of the passengers of one mega-ship. Not enough to charter the vessel or take over an entire dinner seating, but certainly large enough to be noticed (and potentially offensive). Why? Because they have planned things such as door decorating contests, balcony decorating, their own slot machine 'pull,' a 'pub crawl,' and other events. One group even sets up an 'office' in a specified spot so they always have an area where group members can congregate. It wouldn't surprise me if a lounge is not set aside for each group to have an evening cocktail party, thus making it off-limits to other passengers.

Yeah, but a group numbering 15% of the ship's capacity is not gonna have the necessary clout to destroy the cruise experience of all the non-group members onboard. Sure, they may have a lounge set aside for a couple of hours one night, or they may have one of the pool decks reserved for an hour or so one afternoon of the cruise, but there is no way the cruise line is gonna allow a group of that size to diminish the experience for everyone else. They will have controls placed upon them. They can have their casino pull for an hour one night, but even while they are doing it, they are only gonna get a corner of the casino ... the facility will be open to other passengers.

 

But, you get a group now that represents 50% or more of the entire capacity of the ship, now you've got a group to reckon with. They are a financial power house to the home office in Seattle and that home office will promise them all sorts of things that the shipside personnel dammed sure better deliver. The entire cruise will be geared toward them and too bad for the minority of passengers onboard who are not members of that group. They won't get the better shore excursions, they will always be in line behind the group, they will come in second for everything.

 

No, I think small groups are fine ... such as the groups CC or other travel agencies put together. But, once a group begins to border on being the majority of passengers on the ship, I think the group leaders need to be given some choices to make ... either charter out the ship (or a smaller one), or have to live within some limitations that ensure all passengers on the ship receive equal consideration. After all, they are ALL paying good money for that cruise, and thus all have the right to expect the basic ammenities.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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LOL! You are going to have kids, both families and college students, on all mass-market cruiselines from mid-February through Easter. Count on it. Different universities and school systems are out different weeks, but that entire time period is covered with winter, spring, and Easter breaks. :eek:

Yes, on cruises of 7 days or less. Simply book a ten-day or longer cruise and you may avoid the problem. The spring break ain't long enough to accommodate the longer cruises for most families, and the increased cost of a ten to 14-day cruise sometimes makes it impractical for parents to bring all the kids onboard with them ... so they opt for the shorter cruises.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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I'll be on a CC group cruise next year (Westerdam 10/29) to the Caribbean. There's only about 50 of us now but it's a whole year away so that number will probably grow.:D

I'm on that cruise too. I just hope we don't get any large groups onboard that will wreck it for our little group. Even if we triple in size to 150, that's still a very small group. Let one group of 800 or 900 be onboard and we're gonna become the stepchildren on the boat.

 

In retrospect, I'm sorry we didn't opt for a ten-day Panama Canal itinerary. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

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I have received an official reply. At the moment they have no group of that size (they do have one of 48) booked however they do not know what might happen in the coming months . . . Happy cruising.

 

Has anyone else ever been able to get an answer to this question? Is this something new? Has anyone else tried? susana.

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I'm on that cruise too. I just hope we don't get any large groups onboard that will wreck it for our little group. Even if we triple in size to 150, that's still a very small group. Let one group of 800 or 900 be onboard and we're gonna become the stepchildren on the boat.

 

In retrospect, I'm sorry we didn't opt for a ten-day Panama Canal itinerary. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

A group of between 50 and 150 will barely be noticed on a ship the size of Westerdam. They will be no inconvience worth noticing to the other passengers.

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