Voyages of Discovery and Swan Hellenic

[OlsSalt]

Silly side note but when VOD had chocolate desserts they actually tasted like chocolate. Other cruise lines serve desserts that look like chocolate, but are miles away from actually tasting like chocolate. In a way that actually does describe the VOD experience - real travel for real travelers. Not sugar-coated fake travel for tourists.

Edited January 5, 2017 by OlsSalt

[lucymorgan]

Unfortunately it seems that some people will not get their money back, despite having travel insurance

 

http://www.smh.com.au/national/all-leisure-group-collapse-retired-couple-lose-37000-after-cruise-company-goes-bust-20170106-gtn6xx.html

[MMDown Under]

Unfortunately it seems that some people will not get their money back, despite having travel insurance

 

http://www.smh.com.au/national/all-leisure-group-collapse-retired-couple-lose-37000-after-cruise-company-goes-bust-20170106-gtn6xx.html

 

This newspaper article relates to Australian passengers who booked via an Australian Travel Agent.

[tom_uk]

Interesting point about the travel insurance. The people involved weren't covered because their policy didn't cover insolvencies. Interesting, also, that the relevant travel agency in Australia said 'hundreds of [their customers] were affected by the crash'. I wonder if the agency arranged the insurance for all those customers?

 

My first thought was "Who would buy travel insurance that didn't cover the holiday provider going bust?", but then I realised that I don't actually know, without checking, whether mine does! I tend to focus on the "during the holiday" nightmare situations, so basically health issues including enough cover to include repatriation of injured parties by air if required. Also means I'm scrupulously honest about my existing conditions, of course, but I tend to ignore the other stuff.

 

So I need to go and check my policy to see if it includes insolvency cover.....

Edited January 7, 2017 by tom_uk

[tom_uk]

And indeed insolvency of the holiday/travel provider is *not* included in my travel insurance!

 

I rang my insurer's customer service line and received advice to the effect that refunds in the event of the insolvency/ceasing to trade of the travel/holiday provider would be covered by ATOL or ABTA protection schemes, and not by personal travel insurance policies. Apparently this is normal with travel insurance. I think the problem with the Australian passengers was they weren't covered by an equivalent Australian scheme.

 

Brings home once again the importance of using ATOL/ABTA agents (or providers). Also make me wonder where I stand w/regard to the hotels in Crete that I've booked direct (on-line) for accommodation during a holiday there in May. Presumably, since I didn't book through a UK TA, ABTA/ATOL doesn't apply, and my travel insurance doesn't cover me for the failure of the businesses running these hotels either. I hadn't really put all this together in my head before today.

[LHT28]

Also make me wonder where I stand w/regard to the hotels in Crete that I've booked direct (on-line) for accommodation during a holiday there in May. Presumably, since I didn't book through a UK TA, ABTA/ATOL doesn't apply, and my travel insurance doesn't cover me for the failure of the businesses running these hotels either. I hadn't really put all this together in my head before today.

 

What is the cancellation terms for the hotels?

Usually hotels you can cancel up to the day of or the day before arrival

I would look at the terms & conditions on the site you booked them to see if there is a cancellation penalty

[anniegb]

And indeed insolvency of the holiday/travel provider is *not* included in my travel insurance!

 

I rang my insurer's customer service line and received advice to the effect that refunds in the event of the insolvency/ceasing to trade of the travel/holiday provider would be covered by ATOL or ABTA protection schemes, and not by personal travel insurance policies. Apparently this is normal with travel insurance. I think the problem with the Australian passengers was they weren't covered by an equivalent Australian scheme.

 

Brings home once again the importance of using ATOL/ABTA agents (or providers). Also make me wonder where I stand w/regard to the hotels in Crete that I've booked direct (on-line) for accommodation during a holiday there in May. Presumably, since I didn't book through a UK TA, ABTA/ATOL doesn't apply, and my travel insurance doesn't cover me for the failure of the businesses running these hotels either. I hadn't really put all this together in my head before today.

 

If you are UK based and used a cc, there will be protection under section 75.

 

The relevant section:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

 

Annie

 

PS Even part payment by cc affords protection

 

Annie

Edited January 7, 2017 by anniegb

[graham uk]

All very sad. Really sorry to hear that some people will not get their money back from other Countries. Good points made above about the excellent cruise experience that both these companies gave. We cruise a lot and with many different companies - but VoD and Swan Hellenic were very special. Feel very sorry for the crew who have delivered excellent service on every cruise we have had with them. Sincerely hope that they find alternative employment very soon and also really hope to see them on another cruise line in the future.

[tring]

And indeed insolvency of the holiday/travel provider is *not* included in my travel insurance!

 

I rang my insurer's customer service line and received advice to the effect that refunds in the event of the insolvency/ceasing to trade of the travel/holiday provider would be covered by ATOL or ABTA protection schemes, and not by personal travel insurance policies. Apparently this is normal with travel insurance. I think the problem with the Australian passengers was they weren't covered by an equivalent Australian scheme.

 

Brings home once again the importance of using ATOL/ABTA agents (or providers). Also make me wonder where I stand w/regard to the hotels in Crete that I've booked direct (on-line) for accommodation during a holiday there in May. Presumably, since I didn't book through a UK TA, ABTA/ATOL doesn't apply, and my travel insurance doesn't cover me for the failure of the businesses running these hotels either. I hadn't really put all this together in my head before today.

 

Yeah can be a bit of a minefield, we are lucky with ATOL and ABTA though.

 

There are other protections, such as through a credit card company, but that only works if you pay direct to the tour operator (e.g. All Leisure). We paid our deposit to All Leisure by cc so that is who we claim from initially (ATOL kick in for us if for some reason that does not work). You do not have to pay the entire bill by cc - even paying a small part of the deposit by cc means you can claim for the entire holiday. We are a little uncertain about our trips as we paid those by debit card and they may be considered a separate contract as not strictly part of the cruise - looks like cc may still pay up though as it all went on the one bill. If they do not, we will need to claim that money from ATOL.

 

Different situation if you pay through an agent - people have been told to claim from ATOL, I think.

 

We had a post cruise land trip booked independently and that is not covered by ATOL or cc, but our travel insurance does cover 'disruption insurance' so we could claim from our insurance for that. Prefer to book flights and another hotel to make a full holiday of it though. We have about 3/4 weeks to do so, after which we would loose 90% of cost compared to 50% if we cancel now, so insurance would not pay more then 50% if we delay that claim obviously.

 

Definitely not worth skimping on travel insurance, though the cover is not necessarily better with the more expensive policies! Health is another issue of course, it is surprising how many people assume they will be insured if they do not tell the insurance company about every health detail.

 

Quite a minefield, yes.

Edited January 7, 2017 by tring

[tring]

If you are UK based and used a cc, there will be protection under section 75.

 

The relevant section:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

 

Annie

 

PS Even part payment by cc affords protection

 

Annie

 

That works if you book direct with the hotel, but if you book through an online agency (e.g. booking.com) then they are responsible because your contract is with them. Not sure what happens in that case, though if the agency went bust, you would be covered by section 75 and could claim from your credit card company.

 

Section 75 is the protection I was talking about in my previous post.

 

Just looked at the link, which is a fairly good explanation by Which. It is worth reading the bit about additional card holders. My husband is our main card holder, yet I paid for the holiday. We thought at one stage we may not be covered, but as it was something he requested and would benefit from (he was on the booking) we are OK. If I went off and bought something for me (e.g. clothes), then I would not be covered Under section 75. So will be using my own cc's in future if I treat myself!

 

There are always legal arguments and even someone working in consumer law can be uncertain on some points.

Edited January 7, 2017 by tring

[OlsSalt]

All very sad. Really sorry to hear that some people will not get their money back from other Countries. Good points made above about the excellent cruise experience that both these companies gave. We cruise a lot and with many different companies - but VoD and Swan Hellenic were very special. Feel very sorry for the crew who have delivered excellent service on every cruise we have had with them. Sincerely hope that they find alternative employment very soon and also really hope to see them on another cruise line in the future.

 

I hope they all end up on Holland America Lines, who recruits mainly in the Philippines and Indonesia and is also known for their special brand of warm and professional staffing. (Selfishly I say this)

[OlsSalt]

I had a US$600 deposit at stake with a travel company that went bankrupt after the 9-11 tragedy in the US. My credit card company covered this loss (surprisingly). The bankruptcy court eventually offered a few cents on the dollar. But I had already been covered in full by the credit card company.

 

My original trip was to go scuba diving in the Red Sea on a Finnish cruise line and I had my air ticket to NYC already purchased. A well traveled friend suggested going to Jordan instead on a land tour --right after 9-11 -- and that turned out to be an excellent alternative even though most thought here in the US that it was crazy to go anywhere near the Middle East ..anywhere!

 

Turned out to be the best trip ever, no crowds, exceptional prices and very friendly welcomes everywhere I went in Jordan which I fell in love with. Now the crowds in Petra overwhelm the experience I was able to have virtually alone, during those dark days that certainly changed the world for us living in the US.

Edited January 7, 2017 by OlsSalt

[OlsSalt]

This company needs to sell both the Minerva and the Voyager and buy the HAL Prinsendam which has been for sale for some time. A former Royal Viking cruise ship has a good range of cabins and a far better lecture facility. But is still a smaller ship, and can get into the smaller more unique ports like VOD.

 

There is a market for this sort of more basic amenities, more enrichment and educational cruise travel - what did VOD have, 13000 reservations already lined up for next year just on Voyager? And we know Swan Hellenic has her loyal fans too.

[MMDown Under]

This company needs to sell both the Minerva and the Voyager and buy the HAL Prinsendam which has been for sale for some time. A former Royal Viking cruise ship has a good range of cabins and a far better lecture facility. But is still a smaller ship, and can get into the smaller more unique ports like VOD.

 

There is a market for this sort of more basic amenities, more enrichment and educational cruise travel - what did VOD have, 13000 reservations already lined up for next year just on Voyager? And we know Swan Hellenic has her loyal fans too.

 

I agree and I know Swan Hellenic and VOD had many loyal passengers. Why then did All Leisure get in to trouble and go bust?

[OlsSalt]

I agree and I know Swan Hellenic and VOD had many loyal passengers. Why then did All Leisure get in to trouble and go bust?

 

Sounds like a combo of a lot of things -- one of the links claimed it was due to the new value of the pound post Brexit since most passengers were British, and the fact they had to pay for other most things with US dollars (docking fees etc), so they were losing real money on every passenger.

 

Then today I read UK was one of the most successful economies in the world for last year. (Bravo). However I also know the value of the US dollars is going up at the same time making it more expensive to use other currencies to buy dollar cost items. What dreadful irony - my VOD cruise would be cheaper since I would pay with my own US dollars, at the same time I am bankrupting them. Not a happy dilemma.

 

But then I remember when Europe could be done on $5 a day!!! (Good grief - that sounds like i am lying today but it was true - 1960's)

Edited January 8, 2017 by OlsSalt

[tring]

I agree and I know Swan Hellenic and VOD had many loyal passengers. Why then did All Leisure get in to trouble and go bust?

 

It has been reported in various places over the last few days that the problems in North Africa and parts of the Middle East has stopped them calleing at their traditional ports and many people have been put off booking those areas as well. The final crunch though, as reportedly said by Roger Allard, was the fall in the £. It has gone down about 15% since the Brexit vote and most of their fares were in £'s, with many costs being in $ (fuel. port fees etc.) The company are reported as having hedged some cash but that money was running out.

 

Admittedly I am confused as to why they did add a surcharge for bookings already made as their T&C's allow for that up to a certain amount if their costs rise. The problems goes back a few years though, as they have been reporting losses in the cruise sector of their business over that time. So perhaps the amount of surcharge they could have made would not have sorted their problems. Not really a good thing to do either as people could loose confidence in a company.

 

We would have happily paid more if our planned cruises if they could have gone ahead with the planned itineraries, but not all would be happy about that. It depends on your cabin as well, the insides were very cheap considering they included the airfare, but the more upmarket cabins (balconies) were way over the price of many cruise lines.

 

By all accounts they were not sailing full that often either. Still a great shame to loose the company though.

 

Yes the Philipino/Indonesian staff are good, but we are used to that in the UK on Fred Olsen's ships. Cruise and Maritime is the third British based cruise company with older, small ships, which call at more unusual ports, but we did a cruise on a CMV ship and were not impressed with their Eastern European staff and the cruise quality generally (a bit too down market for us). Fred has his limitations as well. Both those companies run a much higher proportion of cruises from the UK than All Leisure did, so much more of their costs are in £'s.

 

We are looking more towards land holidays or cruise holidays with land stays. We certainly do not want to pay for the expensive ships with all suite type accommodation and drinks included etc.

Edited January 8, 2017 by tring

[tring]

 

Then today I read UK was one of the most successful economies in the world for last year. (Bravo).

 

I think much of that was pre the Brexit vote, but the stock market has gone right up as much international revenue is in Dollars, so with the pound going down the value of the shares go higher.

 

Our goods will now be cheaper overseas, so that helps exports, but as the cost of imported items goes up, our prices will have to rise.

 

The effect of Brexit will not be known until after it happens of course, but chances are some types of companies will do much worse, but others could do better, so the future remains to be seen. There is such a lot of political change in the world - including the US and Europe, that it feels quite unsettling. I hope it does not stop us travelling entirely though, even though we will have to think carefully about more expensive places and types of travel.

[OlsSalt]

Here is my wish for a more stable world - breathe new life into the old Hanseatic League. (!)

 

US- UK- Canada - Nordic - Germany - Benelux - Baltic Countries

[silton1]

I'm getting so much conflicting information. I paid the deposit direct using credit card, then balance with debit card same bank. They say as there was not a flight booked only cruise they cannot pay.....atol is for booking with flight ( though I have an atol certificate!) so I have lodged a claim with ABTA ....we shall see.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[tring]

I'm getting so much conflicting information. I paid the deposit direct using credit card, then balance with debit card same bank. They say as there was not a flight booked only cruise they cannot pay.....atol is for booking with flight ( though I have an atol certificate!) so I have lodged a claim with ABTA ....we shall see.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

Can be a bit confusing. If you have booked one of their fly cruises, including the flights to and or from the ship, then you are covered by ATOL (civil aviation authority or CAA for short). If you have booked a cruise only with VOD/Swan, then you would be covered by ABTA.

 

This link gives that general information and has helpline phone numbers for both ABTA and ATOL situations and links to online details:-

 

http://www.voyagesofdiscovery.co.uk/news-overview/all-leisure-holidays-limited-in-administration

 

Since you paid part of the money by credit card and if you booked with VOD or Swan directly (not through a travel agent), you should be able to claim through your credit card as an alternative to ABTA or ATOL.

 

The ATOL link goes to their main page. so you would need to follow further links (e.g. 'how to claim' and 'recent failures') to get to the ATOL page which is specifically about All Leisure.

 

May be worth you ringing the ABTA helpline (perhaps after exploring their online details). That way you could check if your claim has gone to the right place.

 

If you booked through a travel agent, you may need to contact them, but the helplines (and/or websites from the above link should point you in the right direction.

 

My husband is making our claim for the three cruises we had booked and he seems to be having to copy lots of invoices etc. and write a fairly lengthy letter explaining all our different costs which were added after the first invoice for each. I am much more suited to booking and planning holidays. :)

 

Hope this helps you and anyone else who is looking for those details.

Edited January 8, 2017 by tring

[old biddy]

I agree it is all a bit of a nightmare, what is the best way to proceed. I rang the CAA help line yesterday and was told to claim all but the credit card element through the ATOL scheme.

We have also booked a second cruise with Swan Hellenic through a TA who are being completely unhelpful, say they don't know what to do! (if they don't what hope have I!). As that was on a CC I have submitted a claim to the CC company and will have to wait and see the outcome. I was initially told I would have to wait for the TA to sort things out, that may take forever and I want to get an alternative holiday booked, I don't have an endless pot of money to dip into!

[berkshireboy]

Just a heads up if you booked a cruise with Swan Hellenic or VoD. Until the end of January Fred Olsen is giving a 25% discount on any future cruise if you had a booking with either of the above cruise lines. We have just booked one of the "Captains in Cadiz" cruises in September 2018 celebrating 170 years of Fred Olsen. We are on the Boudicca sailing from Dover on the "Island hopping to Suez" cruise ending in Aqaba with flights back to Gatwick. All four Fred Olsen ships meet up in Cadiz on 10th September 2018.

[silton1]

Thank you for so many helpful replies. I will update if I gain any more info myself

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[tring]

I assume we will get letters to tell us formally about the collapse in the near future and they will perhaps give an indication of how to go about claiming the cost. At least we are in the situation of being able to stand the loss for the time being and re book if we want to, but I appreciate it will not be as easy as that for all customers.

 

Regards Fred's offer, it does not cover flight costs and they charge well OTT for flights/transfers. Also the offer cannot be used with other offers, and there are a lot of them at present. So no were near as good as it looks.

 

CMV are also offering a reduction - smaller, but can be used off saver fares and looks like they will also accept a reduced deposit £50 on most cruises, which could be very useful to some who have cash to re claim. There are also other companies mentioned here:-

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=7446

 

I would not consider either of those cruise companies as equivalent to VOD and Swan, but as everyone is saying, there is no comparable alternative.

 

I suspect a lot of companies will be looking for our business and have plans to go to a cruise fair later this month. We are also making plans to change our Feb/March cruise to an entirely land based holiday and are very pleased with what we can get, regards quality and much better long haul flight times. We are looking at stop overs in Dubai or Abu Dhabi, (when we can actually have a sleep at night), keeping our flights to very civilised times (Emirates or Ethiad). There is an airside hotel in Dubai, which makes it even easier if you can use that. Far cheaper than upgrading the flights.

 

We would like cruises of a bit better quality really, but there seems to be a massive jump in prices from the companies who run older ships and the new ones, which tend to have really plush accommodation (sometimes all suite) and included drinks etc., which we do not want.

 

Saga may be in between, but do not know much about them and I am not sure we are in their normal age range (we are late sixties)!

Edited January 8, 2017 by tring

[old biddy]

Viking ocean is an alternative. Only 900 passengers, yes a goodly proportion are from the US, but the ships are amazing. We were on 'Star' last year and loved it, going again in May to St. Petersburg - can't wait! Last cruise with Fred was a huge disappointment so don't think that is an option.

It would be nice if we had been told officially that everything is off. I feel for those who may not use the internet, sorting this out would be even more of a nightmare.