Nieuw Amsterdam Group Booking - HUGE - Eliminates fixed dining and cuts open seating

[OlsSalt]

Here is a good one to throw into the discussion. If a ship establishes "dress guidelines" does that mean they can reject nudist group bookings, without worrying about being found improperly discriminatory?

 

The more onboard dress guidelines are "relaxed", how valid would the rejection of nudist groups be eventually seen?

[bUU]

Here is a good one to throw into the discussion. If a ship establishes "dress guidelines" does that mean they can reject nudist group bookings, without worrying about being found improperly discriminatory?

 

The more onboard dress guidelines are "relaxed", how valid would the rejection of nudist groups be eventually seen?

As long as attire is not a protected class, then there is no conflict. More importantly, there is a difference between discrimination against people and non-discriminatory application of rules of society that public policy has clearly determined to be appropriate to apply in public accommodations.

 

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[Baddabing]

Where would this group dining room decision get made and when. Seattle or onboard the ship by the Hotel Manager? Was it promised to the group when they signed up, or made on the fly after they arrived.

 

They must have made the group dining and private parties in advance as they have it listed on their website as follows:

 

Cruise package rate includes:

Your cruise ship accommodations, port-related fees, shipboard meals, group dining, access to all private pre-sailing and shipboard events,

The package prices listed here include our contracted cruise line rates. Reduced promotional rates may apply at the time we receive your registration resulting in a lower quote in our response to you.

 

Does the group dine together each night?

Our group does maintain a section for our own seating in the Main Dining Room each night

 

Is the entire group located in the same area of the ship?

In most instances, it is likely that your cabin will be adjacent to others in our group who are in a similar cabin category. Even similar cabin types are often located in different areas and levels all over the ship,so our guests are generally in'pockets' throughout the ship.

What is included in the pricing package?

The Pricing includes your 7-nights ship accommodations, all taxes and port fees,all shipboard meals with 24/7 coffee & tea & iced tea included, all shipboard cruise lines' entertainment, Private Facebook group access, access to all exclusive pre-cruise and shipboard private group events, group dining,

 

We sail as a large group aboard regularly scheduled cruises, avoiding the atmosphere of some group charters, and are able to offer amazing savings over those expensive charters as well. Our sailings offer you the opportunity to meet hundreds of amazing and friendly people from all over the world, and the time to make true friendships that will last for years to come!

[OlsSalt]

As long as attire is not a protected class, then there is no conflict. More importantly, there is a difference between discrimination against people and non-discriminatory application of rules of society that public policy has clearly determined to be appropriate to apply in public accommodations.

.

 

Could you please provide a list of the "protected classes", and under which legal jurisdiction? Registration country law, corporate headquarters law, universal maritime law ..... do we assume HAL would be under US federal maritime law.

 

How would this allegedly non-drinking and non-gambling group on the last NA cruise meet protected class status that might possibly trigger a charge of discrimination if they were asked to pay premium rates to compensate for potentially lost and known bar and casino revenues, when compared to the "average" non-group expected bar and casino revenues?

 

We are both slicing and dicing this with Occam's razor from this point on. So done with this speculation. Sorry I raised it to the point of absurdity.

[cbr663]

OP, it is certainly frustrating whenever a large group form in any area. I have only ever been on one cruise in which I noticed the group on board congregating in one area. It was only for a few minutes when they were starting and ending their private sessions, yet it made it very difficult to try and navigate around them. I can't imagine trying to navigate around 1200.

 

The most frustrating aspect for me is that the people of the group seem completely ignorant of how their behavior is affecting others. I have had the misfortune of being in hotels where large work groups suddenly take over the dining venues and trying to navigate around them was very frustrating.

 

I have also had the misfortune of staying in hotels with wedding parties and sports teams who think nothing of taking their celebrations out into the hallways and from room to room. The advantage of a hotel is a call to the front desk usually solved this problem quickly. This didn't work for you as HAL chose instead to accommodate the group at the expense of every other passenger. This response is unacceptable and quite opposite to its corporate value of being Committed to Service Excellence.

[NancyIL]

I'll be part of a large group on the Eurodam this weekend, and it is also a Christian gathering. I prefer either early dining or anytime dining, but we all have late fixed dining due to our evening event from 6-7:30 each evening in the theater (except when we are in San Juan). This will be my first group cruise of this type, so I'm sorry if our group inconveniences others on the ship. I can tell you that Inspiration Cruises books a lot of Christian groups on HAL ships, so take a look at their web site (Google it) if you want to avoid those cruises.

Edited March 8, 2017 by NancyIL

[Liz54]

I'll be part of a large group on the Eurodam this weekend, and it is also a Christian gathering. I prefer either early dining or anytime dining, but we all have late fixed dining due to our evening event from 6-7:30 each evening in the theater (except when we are in San Juan). This will be my first group cruise of this type, so I'm sorry if our group inconveniences others on our ship. I can tell you that Inspiration Cruises books a lot of Christian groups on HAL ships, so take a look at their web site (Google it) if you want to avoid those cruises.

 

Perhaps you can convey to the organizers that there is no need to line up chatting and laughing at 7.30 for an 8 PM dining time. As OVGirl posted above, by so doing, the group provided a very rude disruption to a nightly performance by the Adagio classical duo. This was hard on the audience and frankly rude to the young performers. In the long term the herd behaviour is toxic to relations between the Christian Group and the balance of other passengers. The result is that literally hundreds of passengers are urging HAL to decline these large bookings.

[bUU]

Could you please provide a list of the "protected classes", and under which legal jurisdiction? Registration country law, corporate headquarters law, universal maritime law ..... do we assume HAL would be under US federal maritime law.

 

How would this allegedly non-drinking and non-gambling group on the last NA cruise meet protected class status that might possibly trigger a charge of discrimination if they were asked to pay premium rates to compensate for potentially lost and known bar and casino revenues, when compared to the "average" non-group expected bar and casino revenues?

 

Here is a great reference: http://us.practicallaw.com/5-501-5857

 

All commercial transactions for public accommodations in the country are subject to US law, regardless of where the service itself takes place. That's why cruise lines have to comply with the ADA, anti-discrimination laws, etc. ... And even FTC regulations, which prohibit sellers from making public offerings and then withdrawing then or conditionalizing them because they don't like the buyers.

 

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[NancyIL]

Perhaps you can convey to the organizers that there is no need to line up chatting and laughing at 7.30 for an 8 PM dining time. As OVGirl posted above, by so doing, the group provided a very rude disruption to a nightly performance by the Adagio classical duo. This was hard on the audience and frankly rude to the young performers. In the long term the herd behaviour is toxic to relations between the Christian Group and the balance of other passengers. The result is that literally hundreds of passengers are urging HAL to decline these large bookings.

I'll do what I can.

[Baddabing]

I'm with you 100% on this one. Call HAL tomorrow, and tell them the situation. See if you can transfer to another, similar, cruise, without a group on board. Of course, you've probably already purchased air fare as well. I would start a new thread here on this forum with your complaint, and how it's being handled by HAL. Be polite, but be a squeaky wheel. You shouldn't have to do this, and I'm sorry you didn't see CJ's list sooner. But if I were in your situation, I would push back, loudly. Good luck.

 

Generally speaking, for future reference, one week itineraries on the newest ships (Nieuw Amsterdam, Eurodam, Konigsdam) are going to be the most susceptible to charters and large group bookings.

 

Spoke to 2 HAL reps today. They both insisted that the OP must be a cry baby because they have never heard of a large group bumping a passenger out of dining in the MDR. They also let me know that if I want they will let me change to another HAL ship or return my money. We have already made our flight reservations and can not change the date without major costs to us. I have contacted the TA that is booking this groups cruise and we are fortunate that their normal number of passengers on their fall cruises are over 1,000. BUT for their spring cruise they will not have more than 100 in their group. I am so glad the groups TA was so helpful, I'm NOT thrilled with the HAL reps.

[sail7seas]

I would bet that Holland American and the group organizers arranged for showroom use, group dining, and any other perks in advance.

 

 

Once again, "As You Wish" fails as a slogan for HAL's dining options. I would send marketing info with the "As You Wish" claim with any letters of complaint that I sent to Holland America.

 

 

I am not much of a drinker, but in a situation like that I would be tempted to carry an open bottle of beer everywhere.

 

:confused: What would be your point about an open bottle of beer? Just that you would be 'breaking a rule? Yah, that would really getsome satisfaction of the real problem.... being a seat in MDR for dinner at the time you reserved. NOT !

[hbgroadends]

I had no idea that the cruise lines were so close-mouthed about large group bookings. Heck, hotels freely let you know when a convention is in town or they have a large block of rooms being booked. I wonder what the reasoning is on the part of the cruise lines. Perhaps they think there is no point of letting regular cruisers know because a group's booking numbers can fluctuate so much until the final payoff date passes. If they warn regular cruisers that a group has blocked off 2,000 rooms prior to final payment date but only 100 rooms are booked, yet regular cruisers stayed away because they thought the ship would be full of this group, the cruise would be left with a lot of empty rooms.

 

Just speculating here. It would be interesting to know, though.

[Liz54]

Spoke to 2 HAL reps today. They both insisted that the OP must be a cry baby because they have never heard of a large group bumping a passenger out of dining in the MDR. They also let me know that if I want they will let me change to another HAL ship or return my money. We have already made our flight reservations and can not change the date without major costs to us. I have contacted the TA that is booking this groups cruise and we are fortunate that their normal number of passengers on their fall cruises are over 1,000. BUT for their spring cruise they will not have more than 100 in their group. I am so glad the groups TA was so helpful, I'm NOT thrilled with the HAL reps.

 

If the reps were offering you a different cruise or your money back after final payment I think its a safe bet that they know exactly what happened last week!

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Spoke to 2 HAL reps today. They both insisted that the OP must be a cry baby because they have never heard of a large group bumping a passenger out of dining in the MDR. They also let me know that if I want they will let me change to another HAL ship or return my money. We have already made our flight reservations and can not change the date without major costs to us. I have contacted the TA that is booking this groups cruise and we are fortunate that their normal number of passengers on their fall cruises are over 1,000. BUT for their spring cruise they will not have more than 100 in their group. I am so glad the groups TA was so helpful, I'm NOT thrilled with the HAL reps.

 

Thanks for coming back to let us know how things turned out. Good for you that you pro-actively called the group's TA to find out their numbers. 100 passengers as part of a group on a HAL ship is manageable, not like the 1200 that Liz54, this thread's original poster, had to endure. Too bad about the HAL reps, although they did offer you another cruise or a refund. That's pretty good, considering you were past your final payment date. It sounds as if they acknowledged your situation by offering to move you to another cruise or refund your money, but perhaps HAL's company policy forbids discussion of groups on board by their reps, and so they couldn't directly address the issue.( I don't know; I'm just speculating). I hope you have a wonderful cruise, despite all this turmoil.

[OVgirl]

Spoke to 2 HAL reps today. They both insisted that the OP must be a cry baby because they have never heard of a large group bumping a passenger out of dining in the MDR. I have contacted the TA that is booking this groups cruise and we are fortunate that their normal number of passengers on their fall cruises are over 1,000. BUT for their spring cruise they will not have more than 100 in their group. I am so glad the groups TA was so helpful, I'm NOT thrilled with the HAL reps.

 

Oh oh. That was not a good thing to say about the OP. HAL should train their people to give better responses.

[kira5]

Maybe the list of groups (largish) on upcoming cruises should be a sticky to allow easy consultation.

[kira5]

I'm wondering how the 'Cruising with the Monkey' group can quote prices as low as $200 per person for an interior cabin. I've never seen prices that low for the general public.

[bUU]

I'm wondering how the 'Cruising with the Monkey' group can quote prices as low as $200 per person for an interior cabin. I've never seen prices that low for the general public.

It's a good question. I have to wonder if some folks are certifying as travel agents but really just booking for groups and passing along their compensation as a discount. I seem to recall some distant aunt or cousin involved in some kind of disreputable airline ticket scheme like that when I was a child.

 

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[summersigh]

Or if there is some standard fee schedule, such as if someone decides to get married at sea with a friend officiating.

 

Do we even know whether the bookings were made direct or made through an agent or reseller?

.

To participate in the activities they have to book thru the Inspiration event organizers. From what I've seen these groups pay Inspiration more in fares than one would if you booked the same cabin yourself - but couldn't go to the activities nor be included in their dinners.

[jhsocal]

OlsSalt, our experience was similar to summersigh. Booked our July, 2016 cruise previous Oct.,already waitlisted for late set seating In April i contacted Inspirations, rep. would not tell me how many had booked, did indicate they could reserve up to half the ship. Fortunately, there were only 700, which seemed manageable. They did not impact anything except late set seating.

a compromise for HAL and rest of cruisers would be to limit the number in the group Problems seem to occur with 800 or more.

Might be interesting to contact Inspirations for a quote on one on these Alaska cruises.

[kazu]

Spoke to 2 HAL reps today. They both insisted that the OP must be a cry baby because they have never heard of a large group bumping a passenger out of dining in the MDR. They also let me know that if I want they will let me change to another HAL ship or return my money. We have already made our flight reservations and can not change the date without major costs to us. I have contacted the TA that is booking this groups cruise and we are fortunate that their normal number of passengers on their fall cruises are over 1,000. BUT for their spring cruise they will not have more than 100 in their group. I am so glad the groups TA was so helpful, I'm NOT thrilled with the HAL reps.

 

WOW! how unprofessional to hear what they said about the OP. REALLY unprofessional. If I were in the OP's shoes, I would feel the same. We don't want to eat at 5:30 nor eat in the Lido.

 

I am happy to hear that they are accommodating you. and it has worked out. Good news :)

[styles27]

I can completely understand the negative impact this had on your cruise...I would have been just as upset. A similar thing happened to us on a RCCL cruise but fortunately it didn't shut the MDR down, only some bars and lounges around the ship.

 

I'm sailing on the May 6th Eurodam and noticed on that posted link there is a group. Is there any way of finding out the size of these groups?

 

This is what it says for my cruise

Eurodam: 06 May 2017 - 13 May 2017 : Alaska : Colored Pencils Workshop cruise group

[Liz54]

I can completely understand the negative impact this had on your cruise...I would have been just as upset. A similar thing happened to us on a RCCL cruise but fortunately it didn't shut the MDR down, only some bars and lounges around the ship.

 

I'm sailing on the May 6th Eurodam and noticed on that posted link there is a group. Is there any way of finding out the size of these groups?

 

This is what it says for my cruise

Eurodam: 06 May 2017 - 13 May 2017 : Alaska : Colored Pencils Workshop cruise group

 

I just did a very quick google search and last years cruise was described as attracting 2 dozen coloured pencil enthusiasts. I expect you will be fine but if you search with your sailing dates you may get more info!

[styles27]

I just did a very quick google search and last years cruise was described as attracting 2 dozen coloured pencil enthusiasts. I expect you will be fine but if you search with your sailing dates you may get more info!

 

Thanks so much Liz! I should have thought about searching the group name. I appreciate your help.

[nanlaur]

My mom and I were also on this cruise for both weeks. I suspected that the group would have an impact, but didn't anticipate they would affect our experience to quite the extent they did. The first week we dined at around 8:00 at open seating. The first evening of the second week, we arrived at our customary time to see an enormous line of people from the special group entering the lower dining room. We were told there would be no open seating available to us. As it as so late, the Lido was about to close, leaving us the option to go get a pizza. Not acceptable at all and there were others from the B2B who were also quite upset. We were told that we could wait until everyone was seated and they would try to find a table for us. So there we stood like someone's poor relations, waiting at the door while hundreds of people filed into the MDR. We eventually share a table with a couple and the Food and Beverage Manager found us a two-top at the late seating for the remainder of the week.

 

I don't know what was going on with the service, but the wait staff seemed extraordinarily rushed, which made it a less than relaxing meal each night. And the shows were pushed to 8:30 and 10:30. A bit too late for us, so we missed out on those.

 

I don't have a pile of vacation time and will not gamble my precious time off by risking that this will happen again. It would take something quite extraordinary for us to book another HAL cruise. I did express myself in the survey, but want to write directly to the management. When I can catch my breath--I'm not even unpacked yet!