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Proposal to Strengthen Cruise Passenger Safety Laws

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mcrcruiser

mcrcruiser

Posted
Posted
No matter the cost? Somebody always has to pay for Government Bureaucracy. Are you willing to pay for this?? Pay are larger fare?

 

Some seem to think the so called little guy should pay nothing and the Corporations and people who have earned a good wage should sacrifice for those little people (not my words).

 

 

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Why do you feel that cruise prices would increase if the cruise lines had to protect people on their ships from bad situations ? Shouldn't it be a cost of business just like security on land or in the air ?

 

FWIW cruise prices have increased substantially over the last 2 or 3 years with all these OBC ,drink packages ie ;which when you or I buy a ticket are definitely included in the price of that ticket & more added on in price .

 

Simple logic the higher prices go the lower number of people can afford to cruise . The simple supply /demand . Additionally ,with all these new ships coming into service & costing upward of a billion dollars when will there be a saturation point .

 

Another critical thing is that when in 2007 & 2008 that the US economy almost imploded ,cruise ships sailed at cost in hope of passengers buying at sea to make profits . History will repeat itself & the economy will tank once again . IMO ,we aren't far from that again .like getting into one war with No Korea or Iran or even Russia & with the US debt the economy will take a huge hit . Regardless of cruise line laws being passed , the cruise lines ,at some point in the future will be forced to reduce those lofty prices . or go out of business

 

Today many people are comparing family vacation costs to get the most bang for their dollar & even time share sales are exploding because of crazy high hotel prices & eating out while on vacation . Money or Kiplinger (I read both ) magazines had recent article of family of 4 going to Disney world to visit 4 parks . Hotel ,airfares ,meals park entry fees , souvenirs the prices ranged for a 4 day vacation from a budget trip of about $3500 to a deluxe trip of about $9500 . Now just how many middle class people can continue to pay those lofty prices ,save for college educations & their future retirement ?

 

In summary cruise lines are feasting on a wealth effect in this country & regardless of whether the US Congress passes a law to further protect all of us at sea the cruise lines just raise their prices as they want with out any caps until the hammer of a bad economy once again sets upon their shoulders

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WpgCruise

WpgCruise

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Posted
Regardless of cruise line laws being passed , the cruise lines ,at some point in the future will be forced to reduce those lofty prices . or go out of business

 

The problem with this argument is that the ships, unlike a hotel are mobile. If the market in North America falters, the ships are relocated to Europe, Asia, Oz or wherever they generate higher profits.

 

Turning to the point of regulation, the same principle applies.

 

Example, Brits got fed up with having to pass through U.S. Immigration on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. P&O now home ports ships in Barbados in the winter. Direct charter flights from G.B. land in Barbados, people are bussed from the tarmac to the ship. They do a cruise and when they disembark are bussed back to the plane. No U.S. ports are called on, no Immigration lineups, no hassle. An excellent example of how the Market adapts to excess regulation.

 

If you think this is a "One Off" take a look at the ships home ported in Jamaica, Mexico and other non U.S. ports to accommodate Caribbean sailings in the winter. Even sailings to Cuba are happening from non U.S. pots just to avoid over regulation.

 

Over regulation of any Market or Product has consequences. Be those consequences higher prices, fewer competitors, or the providers leaving the Market.

 

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

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mcrcruiser

mcrcruiser

Posted
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The problem with this argument is that the ships, unlike a hotel are mobile. If the market in North America falters, the ships are relocated to Europe, Asia, Oz or wherever they generate higher profits.

 

Turning to the point of regulation, the same principle applies.

 

Example, Brits got fed up with having to pass through U.S. Immigration on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. P&O now home ports ships in Barbados in the winter. Direct charter flights from G.B. land in Barbados, people are bussed from the tarmac to the ship. They do a cruise and when they disembark are bussed back to the plane. No U.S. ports are called on, no Immigration lineups, no hassle. An excellent example of how the Market adapts to excess regulation.

 

If you think this is a "One Off" take a look at the ships home ported in Jamaica, Mexico and other non U.S. ports to accommodate Caribbean sailings in the winter. Even sailings to Cuba are happening from non U.S. pots just to avoid over regulation.

 

Over regulation of any Market or Product has consequences. Be those consequences higher prices, fewer competitors, or the providers leaving the Market.

 

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

 

Think of taking out the American Economy entirely & how will the rest of the world fair ?

 

Yea cruise ships are mobile ;but ,if the US tanks economically what impact does that have on world economies . Let us just use a small example . A War breaks out in Korea (there is no denying it is extremely close at hand ) .South Korea is devastated & not only millions killed in conventional war far ;but parts can't ship & South korea is the 9th largest US trading partner .

 

Now what impact will be on plants around the world that can no longer get Korean parts because of all out devastating war . Can those plants survive & if so how long would it take to build like plants to supply parts . what do those plants do in the meantime & how do those employees fair ?

 

There is talk about a black swan already in the high flying financial markets . Markets that go up like this stock market can not & will not last for ever .

 

Here is a history lesson . The 1929 stock market crash happened when the US population was 126 ,000,000 & today the market value dwarfs that 1939 market & todays US population is 326000000 . But the real problem is the break even from that 1020 market crash . It took to 1953 unadjusted for inflation & it took to the 89s to break even adjusted for inflation

 

Now with that said where do you think the cruise lines will ne successful after a a huge let down in the American economy ,terror in Europe - London ,Paris to mention just a couple plus the mid east plus the military advances into the Ukrane by Russian troops ie . The world indeed is more dangerous today than any past time in history ;because of the weapons of mass destruction .

 

So where do those cruise ships go to load up passengers in economies that have the money & desire to cruise ? Very wealthy people don't go on mass market cruise ships rather they sail on their own yachts & fly in their own jets .Thus ,I simply can't see the validity in your argument about how cruise ships will survive

 

Yes again laws passed by our congress to protect American citizens can be helpful for all our protections whether at sea in the air or on land .

 

FWIW we ourselves are NOT the enemy within ;although one must wonder these trying days , The real enemies are North korea ,Russia ,Iran , ISIS & all terror ideologies & finally China . This statement was given to congress by our military 4 star Marine General

 

Cruising is a luxury & not a necessity , BTW I am a proud prep e .:)

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xpcdoojk "Live from...." Rare

xpcdoojk

Posted
Posted
The problem with this argument is that the ships, unlike a hotel are mobile. If the market in North America falters, the ships are relocated to Europe, Asia, Oz or wherever they generate higher profits.

 

Turning to the point of regulation, the same principle applies.

 

Example, Brits got fed up with having to pass through U.S. Immigration on Caribbean sailings from the U.S. P&O now home ports ships in Barbados in the winter. Direct charter flights from G.B. land in Barbados, people are bussed from the tarmac to the ship. They do a cruise and when they disembark are bussed back to the plane. No U.S. ports are called on, no Immigration lineups, no hassle. An excellent example of how the Market adapts to excess regulation.

 

If you think this is a "One Off" take a look at the ships home ported in Jamaica, Mexico and other non U.S. ports to accommodate Caribbean sailings in the winter. Even sailings to Cuba are happening from non U.S. pots just to avoid over regulation.

 

Over regulation of any Market or Product has consequences. Be those consequences higher prices, fewer competitors, or the providers leaving the Market.

 

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

 

Trust me economics and unintended consequences never occur to these people. They think everything is static. Do this and that is the result. Except when you do this other people do that and viola... what you in your best doogoooder plans goes to crap....

 

Happens all the time. Especially when senators from NE states pass laws.

 

JC

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chengkp75

chengkp75

Posted
Posted
Here is a surge protection power strip on our fridge of Rhapsody this spring. Any thoughts?

 

cd009e5e71e2f76e703ca25599d49eb4.jpg

 

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I don't see any indication in the photo that this is surge protected. It has an on/off switch/circuit breaker, but that is all I see. Did you pull it out to read the specs on it, and did it mention "joules of protection" or "clamping voltage"? That looks amazingly like the European 220v power strips we use extensively on the ships I work on, manufactured by WonPro, and they are not surge protected. These European power strips are better suited for shipboard use, as the switch/circuit breaker will open both legs of the power circuit, not just one like US power strips will do.

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bUU

bUU

Posted
Posted
There has got to be laws enforceable to protect every cruise line passenger from negligence & crew members that commit criminal acts against cruise passengers . I agree with all laws that put teeth to protect all of us whether on land or at sea or in the air .

And to be clear, new laws aren't needed: Rather old laws that cruise lines hide behind when they commit offenses need to be done away with. Corporations and other large enterprises have abused excessive financial power forever to get laws passed that give them unfair advantages over us consumers. Those laws need to go, and buyer and seller need to be put back onto an even footing with absolutely no advantage in a commercial transaction given to the party who can afford better lawyers. However that isn't going to happen as long as wealth had a bevy of apologists for their unfair advantages.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

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Ocean Boy

Ocean Boy

Posted
Posted (edited)
I was bored and looked it up.

 

According to Wikipedia, an American life is quite a bit more expensive than others -about $10 million. Aussies and Kiwi are about $4M. Based on polls, Russians are worth less than $100K - the land of no regulations.

No wonder the U.S. government is attempting to reach into every aspect of our lives right down to the size of the soda you can drink as it seems that we are quite valuable, relatively speaking, as far as lives go. We must be protected by the very people who mostly live above the laws that are imposed on us.

Edited by Ocean Boy
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John&LaLa "Live from...." Rare

John&LaLa

Posted
Posted
I don't see any indication in the photo that this is surge protected. It has an on/off switch/circuit breaker, but that is all I see. Did you pull it out to read the specs on it, and did it mention "joules of protection" or "clamping voltage"? That looks amazingly like the European 220v power strips we use extensively on the ships I work on, manufactured by WonPro, and they are not surge protected. These European power strips are better suited for shipboard use, as the switch/circuit breaker will open both legs of the power circuit, not just one like US power strips will do.
Thanks for the explanation.

Wasn't that interested to pull it out. It just caught my eye. And yes, it was 220.

 

I also saw a 110V one being used by the bingo crew to power their AV equipment, it also had a red on/off switch.

 

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nealstuber

nealstuber

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Posted (edited)
Wow, we agree. :eek:

 

 

 

But in your view, trial attornies don't get rich.

 

 

 

JC

 

 

 

Not sure this link will hold up but it shows crime stats for cruise ships vs various size cities. The rates for small towns vs cruise ship are 10-15 times higher.

 

https://www.cruising.org/docs/default-source/research/jaf-cruise-crime-report---aug-20-2015-(2).pdf?sfvrsn=0

 

As to the specific case with the surge protector, wouldn't it make sense to ask small towns to restrict use of surge protectors and the number of devices used?

 

I wonder if the congressmen sponsoring this legislation have checked under the desks of their staff or even have the slightest clue what's under there! To say nothing of campaign offices which are often set-up add hoc. It would be a real treat to see these congressmen live by the rules they propose.

 

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Edited by nealstuber
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time4u2go

time4u2go

Posted
Posted
Not sure this link will hold up but it shows crime stats for cruise ships vs various size cities. The rates for small towns vs cruise ship are 10-15 times higher.

 

https://www.cruising.org/docs/default-source/research/jaf-cruise-crime-report---aug-20-2015-(2).pdf?sfvrsn=0

 

As to the specific case with the surge protector, wouldn't it make sense to ask small towns to restrict use of surge protectors and the number of devices used?

 

I wonder if the congressmen sponsoring this legislation have checked under the desks of their staff or even have the slightest clue what's under there! To say nothing of campaign offices which are often set-up add hoc. It would be a real treat to see these congressmen live by the rules they propose.

 

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Surge protectors do not pose the same problems with a land-based power system that they do with a ship's power system.

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nealstuber

nealstuber

Posted
Posted
Surge protectors do not pose the same problems with a land-based power system that they do with a ship's power system.

 

 

 

True, but I'd be willing to wager that electrical fires are more common in small towns then on cruise ships.

 

 

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bUU

bUU

Posted
Posted
Such as what? What laws are you talking about?

As I mentioned earlier, the Death on the High Seas Act.

 

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Cruzaholic41

Cruzaholic41

Posted
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As I mentioned earlier, the Death on the High Seas Act.

 

The DOHS holds cruise lines liable when they are negligent. How exactly do the cruise lines hide behind the DOHS and why does it need to be repealed? You're not being very clear in your responses.

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bUU

bUU

Posted
Posted

DOHSA limits the scope of the damages that can be claimed to "actual monetary loss" (no pain and suffering; no loss of companionship).

 

Remove the limitations: Make it exactly the same as if the negligence happened on the Mississippi River and I'll be satisfied.

 

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Milwaukee Eight

Milwaukee Eight

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Posted
I'm guessing that you're not going to believe anything that contradicts your assumptions coming from me.

 

Research it yourself. Here's a place to start: http://www.mahonefirm.com/death-on-the-high-seas-act-dohsa/

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

 

 

Isn't this link exactly from those wishing to chase ambulances and make money from libel claims. You talk about the little guy, but I don't think these people are the little guy, BUT THE PROBLEM.

 

And you trust them because???

 

 

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Milwaukee Eight

Milwaukee Eight

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Posted
Yeah, and he turned down medical help as he did not want to pay for it..........now he's all bruised and achey.

 

 

 

Of course, the new thing, we want everyone else to pay.

 

The "little guy" has no desire to be the big guy, they just want big Government to take care of them.

 

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