Jump to content
need2cruisesoon

Princess (New) Ships Aren't "Game Changers", Why?

Recommended Posts

One thing I'm pleased about is that Princess is showing restraint with it's new ships. Other lines are building ships that have four, five, even six thousand lower berths. Princess, so far, is staying around 3500. We recently did a Mediterranean cruise on Royal and some ports were so swamped with cruise ship passengers that it was unpleasant.

 

When we booked I was worried that Royal would be too big but somehow Princess manages to make even the biggest ships in the fleet feel cosy and comfortable. Still, I would like to see Princess build a couple of smaller ships around the size of the Sun class, as these are more suited to some if the itineraries in our part of the world, especially the South Pacific itineraries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Princess is desperately trying to replenish its aging loyal customer base w/ the next generation of cruisers, but they have fuddy duddys at the helm that are failing to figure out what is 'cool' & 'hip'.

 

Given that every Princess cruise has 50's and 60's music nights, I don't think they're even trying to attract Gen-X cruisers never-mind the Millennials.

Edited by dns65

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Younger cruisers on Carnival and NCL. But still favor 60’s music.

Edited by umuva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and there are only two accessible balcony cabins, and these are "deluxe suites", so for accessibility you go from inside, to ocean view, to deluxe suite.

 

.

With an aging demographic I’m surprised they aren’t doing more to make pretty much all cabins more wheelchair friendly, either wider doors or a corale (probably near the elevators) to park and charge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would settle for a seat in the show lounge that doesn't require a shoehorn to get into. :cool:

The theater seating on RCCL's Liberty of the Seas was worse. As was the totally wasted space of their multideck high open space inside promenade shopping mall.

 

While I like that Princess is evolutionary not revolutionary, I still miss the Sun Princess class of ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With an aging demographic I’m surprised they aren’t doing more to make pretty much all cabins more wheelchair friendly, either wider doors or a corale (probably near the elevators) to park and charge.
I would think the new badge system could be married to automatic door openers for handicapped cabins. Now that would be a game changer for a lot of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Given that every Princess cruise has 50's and 60's music nights, I don't think they're even trying to attract Gen-X cruisers never-mind the Millennials.

 

They've made some forays into the 70s in recent times with their era-themed rock-medleys, heh.

 

The 'Gastro pub' and 'Share' are definite attempts to appeal to the Hipster-class and move beyond the same ol' Steakhouse/Italian-fare offerings.

 

One could also state that the 'Ocean Medallion' is a move towards enticing the tech-savvy that are pining for ultimate connectivity.

 

There's no question that the Princess' primary target demographic are so-called 'empty-nester' couples, or families w/ adult children. The primary average age group on board is at/or very near either side of retirement age.

 

For Princess to thrive, they need to entice first time cruisers. A bunch of Elites( and/or even Platinums) usually don't bring the onboard spending revenue that new cruisers bring. While they may fill out the cabins, w/ Princess doling out complimentary OBC to savvy/experienced cruisers (that know how to get the most bang for their buck) -- they simply don't spend like new cruisers do.

 

A loyal and returning customer base may keep the lights on, but as these ships grow to 3k to 3.5k pax, Princess is absolutely aware of the need for a strategy to bring the next generation in. They're simply failing at it atm.

 

I did hear less 'Andrew Sisters' and 'Benny Goodman' on our last Princess cruise. In fact, the canned music actually had renditions of 'The Doors' and 'Hendrix' in the playlist. "Like...Pretty hip, Daddio." - In my best Maynard G. Krebs voice..

Edited by Skai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The theater seating on RCCL's Liberty of the Seas was worse. As was the totally wasted space of their multideck high open space inside promenade shopping mall.

 

While I like that Princess is evolutionary not revolutionary, I still miss the Sun Princess class of ships.

How so? They couldn't have made the seats any narrower, could they?:(

With Princess eliminating the side trays and reducing the width of the seats they're just about as bad as it could get. At least they've added a side isle on the Royal & Regal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How about ridiculous balconies, useless pools, useless water show, Princess live!. Princess new ships aren't even IN the game.

 

Royal class ships are our favorites and we have been on Royal, Regal, Majestic and are booked on the new Sky Princess.....they keep us coming back to Princess......sounds like Royal Caribbean maybe your thing.....the one thing that never changes on a Princess ship is the number of Negaholics who seem to complain about EVERYTHING!! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Royal class ships are our favorites and we have been on Royal, Regal, Majestic and are booked on the new Sky Princess.....they keep us coming back to Princess......sounds like Royal Caribbean maybe your thing.....the one thing that never changes on a Princess ship is the number of Negaholics who seem to complain about EVERYTHING!! :rolleyes:

 

LOL....I feel it is actually the repeat cruisers who sail the same itinerary, and believe me they are on RCI too...just not on the big ships...which might I add is very very nice because new cruisers are still in Awe and so excited about everything.....they are still following the rules, they don't demand things. When you have 1/2 of 6,000 people( Oasis class) that are first time cruisers it is a pure delight.....even if half of them are under 18.

 

 

Worst experience with complaining guests was on Majestic 3 weeks Singapore to Shanghai...and the cruise before us 2 blokes and their partners got tossed off the ship due to fisticuffs in the laundry room....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've gotta give MSC (Seaside), X (Edge) and NCL (Bliss) credit for introducing new ships with Game Changing design and unique layouts.

 

I'm wondering why Princess and also HAL remain stale with new ship design innovations?

The newer ships have become amusement parks for families. not what I want anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The newer ships have become amusement parks for families. not what I want anyway.

 

Please explain how Celebrity Edge is an amusement park for Families? or the Viking ships?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be in the minority, I really LIKE the promenade deck on the Royal/Regal, the only bummer is that is doesn't have a cover. But normally there is a shady and a sunny side, at night its a really nice quiet comfortable place VS the other ships that the promenade deck has now become the jogging track. And I really don't like the Piazza. To crowded and noisy, I tried having a coffee and conversation with a friend, forget it, we were shouting and nodding. I don't like the outdoor smoking area aft. smells like an ashtray, and then adding the aft "pool" in the same area....YUCK. Narrow balconies I can live with, Horizon Court, I like the layout vs the other ships, which seemed cramped and crowded, but the desert section seems a little out of place...I think it would be better suited farther back. I don't need ice skating rinks, bowling alleys, zip line or rock climbing walls. Give me my balcony and a glass of wine....I'm good

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that was annoying but not having outside cabins was more so.

I'm either forced to go to an expensive balcony or the dreaded inside closet like cabins. :(

On longer cruises it makes a big difference in the total cost.

 

Totally agree with you! Plaza deck OV cabins are our favorite, both for price and for convenience to the atrium/coffee etc. I don't know why they had to put the spa there on the Royal/Regal. On a cruise, I usually go to the spa daily for the thermal suite and for an occasional massage. We've been on the Royal twice and I used the spa only once--not only is the TS more expensive than on the older ships, but I found the spa very sterile/"cold" and uninviting. So not only lost our beloved Plaza cabin area, but also got an uninviting spa in its place. Too bad the only choices out of FL are the Royal, Regal and Caribbean (which we'll be on in late Feb.). Wish they would bring back one of the other grand class ships to FL and send the CB elsewhere!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and another dislike on the Regal/Royal is the placement of the spa right next to the forward elevators. We normally get a forward cabin and when going to the IC or PSD, passing those ladies standing right at the entrance to the elevator banks, and getting the "evil eye"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I book a lower deck because I eat breakfast, lunch at IC so I'm always going by the spa! I don't give them a chance to give me a look, I always wave and say, hi gals or guys, here I am again, walking on by! :)

 

Someone mentioned fisticuffs, happened right in front of me in the Diamond Lounge on RCI. Two ladies arguing, one a diamond, other "well I'm diamond plus" then the husbands got involved, I left! A day & 1/2 from Fla. and I heard they were confined to their cabins. Ridiculous, all started over some cookies or coffee, taking too many, whatever, it was dumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Totally agree with you! Plaza deck OV cabins are our favorite, both for price and for convenience to the atrium/coffee etc. I don't know why they had to put the spa there on the Royal/Regal. On a cruise, I usually go to the spa daily for the thermal suite and for an occasional massage. We've been on the Royal twice and I used the spa only once--not only is the TS more expensive than on the older ships, but I found the spa very sterile/"cold" and uninviting. So not only lost our beloved Plaza cabin area, but also got an uninviting spa in its place. Too bad the only choices out of FL are the Royal, Regal and Caribbean (which we'll be on in late Feb.). Wish they would bring back one of the other grand class ships to FL and send the CB elsewhere!

Crown Princess returns to do the 10 night sailings that Royal does now, so there's that. CB is staying in Florida though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Crown Princess returns to do the 10 night sailings that Royal does now, so there's that. CB is staying in Florida though.

 

Thanks for mentioning that the Crown was coming back--we sailed on her 4x when she was in FL before, including 2 TAs. I was said to see her leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is simply untrue that Princess doesn't attract a younger demographic. I'm Gen Y/Millennial and I cruise Princess because they aren't going for gimmicks. If I wanted to go to a theme park I would go to a theme park. If I wanted to be on a ship with tacky hydro slides I would go to the local pool (though none really have hydro slides).

 

I like that Princess retains its class and hasn't given into stupid gimmicks such as RCCL and Carnival.

 

When I'm cruising all I care about is the size of the ship, the age of the ship, the cost of the booking, the itinerary, Movies under the Stars, the internet, the Lido deck and potentially other activities such as karaoke and the gym.

 

I also would disagree that interior cabins are stuffy. I've been in them twice and I just use the Lido Deck or the Sports deck when I want to walk around.

 

I also would disagree that younger newer cruisers spend a lot. I do spend a fair amount on internet but why would I use a cruise ship shop when I can buy things on land? The only things I buy on the ship are internet, a few drinks, a coffee card, maybe a specialty restaurant and maybe a few souvenirs. The rest I would buy at home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I would like to see as "game changing" is that Princess get into the 21st century with modern internet. Yeah, I know they are "working on it". I just hope by the time it gets rolled out, they aren't behind in technology again. ***** is very ambitious and if they can deliver on the original promise then it is pretty "game changing" for Princess.

 

The other thing I would like them to go against the grain on is maintain the quality and ask us to pay reasonable cost increases. I don't want to pay the same price now as five years ago or five years from now and give up quality of food, drink and entertainment in the process.

 

(y)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
With regards to the Promenade deck, take into consideration the SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea) rules implemented after the Costa Concordia disaster. Princess, and other lines, must follow the SOLAS rules and regulations. Can’t blame Princess which it appears people are doing.

Do these rules mean no more promenade decks on any ships? This is the first I have heard of this and it's got me interested.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Forums mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do these rules mean no more promenade decks on any ships? This is the first I have heard of this and it's got me interested.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Forums mobile app

 

 

Well, it's on the internet. It must be true. :rolleyes:

 

Utah, please go back and read through the entire thread. In particular pay close attention to the posts by chengkp75. Chengkp75 actually has significant seafaring experience. If I'm not mistaken, his Cruise Critic handle is a contraction of "Chief Engineer." His opinion carries a lot of weight with me. In his posts in this thread he not only insists that there are no SOLAS requirements that preclude promenade decks, but his opinion that larger promenade decks could aid the evacuation of a ship.

 

Although he did not mention it, the Costa Concordia incident, which is cited as the reason that the Majestic Princess does not have the wrap-around promenade, ocurred 10 months after construction began on the Majestic Princess. Believe me, Princess did not suddenly say, "Oh crap, they changed the SOLAS requirements. Now we have to stop construction of this ship, redesign the whole thing and still stay on schedule."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
d.I also would disagree that younger newer cruisers spend a lot. I do spend a fair amount on internet but why would I use a cruise ship shop when I can buy things on land? The only things I buy on the ship are internet, a few drinks, a coffee card, maybe a specialty restaurant and maybe a few souvenirs. The rest I would buy at home.

 

Your personal spending habits aside, it is a statistical fact that newer and/or younger cruisers spend more.

 

You disprove your own point. You admit to spending a fair amount on internet(at a premium), Elite/Platinum passengers get internet packages para gratis. Many Elite passengers also swap their complimentary mini-bar set-ups for coffee cards.

 

With the shareholders' benefit, and other loyalty-related OBC(along w/ FCCs), some older cruisers get a decent pile of complimentary spending money from Princess.

 

Often, younger/newer cruisers have limited vacation time available(compared to older/retired cruisers who can vacation more often.). These younger vacationers stastically spend more per vacation. With only 3% of the population cruising - one must understand that: While loyal returning Black and Silver cards keep the lights on, it's the Blue cards that bring Princess its profit. Princess would much rather fill their ships with Blue Cards, instead of Black and Silver.

 

Cruiselines make their money from onboard spending, not filling cabins.

 

Here's a couple articles that back up the statement that newer cruisers spend more...

 

HERE

 

HERE

 

HERE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that new cruisers tend to spend more than experienced cruisers (which can be of any age) but those older experienced cruisers have more time on their hands (longer vacations, retirees) and probably take many more cruises. Most itineraries - with the exception of Alaska and maybe short warm weather cruises - don't attract new cruisers in numbers to fill an entire ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Your personal spending habits aside, it is a statistical fact that newer and/or younger cruisers spend more.

 

You disprove your own point. You admit to spending a fair amount on internet(at a premium), Elite/Platinum passengers get internet packages para gratis. Many Elite passengers also swap their complimentary mini-bar set-ups for coffee cards.

 

With the shareholders' benefit, and other loyalty-related OBC(along w/ FCCs), some older cruisers get a decent pile of complimentary spending money from Princess.

 

Often, younger/newer cruisers have limited vacation time available(compared to older/retired cruisers who can vacation more often.). These younger vacationers stastically spend more per vacation. With only 3% of the population cruising - one must understand that: While loyal returning Black and Silver cards keep the lights on, it's the Blue cards that bring Princess its profit. Princess would much rather fill their ships with Blue Cards, instead of Black and Silver.

 

Cruiselines make their money from onboard spending, not filling cabins.

 

Here's a couple articles that back up the statement that newer cruisers spend more...

 

HERE

 

HERE

 

HERE

 

The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

 

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

 

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.

Tours and activities are where they make their money not the lodging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

 

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.

 

Que?

 

<Boomers = 'Young people' in the cruising world. While Boomers may have the opportunity to take more, Gen Xers/Millennials spend more than Boomers PER vacation.

 

Your opinion of cruise-line revenue is incorrect.

 

You've merely based your opinion from your own personal thrifty habits. It's established data that the cruiselines are well aware of that newer/younger cruisers statistically spend more onboard per cruise than experienced/older cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Que?

 

 

 

<Boomers = 'Young people' in the cruising world. While Boomers may have the opportunity to take more, Gen Xers/Millennials spend more than Boomers PER vacation.

 

 

 

Your opinion of cruise-line revenue is incorrect.

 

 

 

You've merely based your opinion from your own personal thrifty habits. It's established data that the cruiselines are well aware of that newer/younger cruisers statistically spend more onboard per cruise than experienced/older cruisers.

 

 

 

Thrifty? I’d hardly say $1k on internet on the last cruise is thrifty.

 

I read the supplied link and the information suggests that we spend more on holidays overall but that doesn’t mean we spend that on board. It just means we travel more overall.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The first link actually contradicts your comment. Young people spend more overall, but per night actually spend less than older cruises. It is in the first table of the first article.

 

Spending more overall doesn't mean you're spending more on each individual cruise.

 

Right. Looks like my fellow Gen-Xers are spending more so as I mentioned in an earlier posting, can we ditch the 60's music nights in favour of 80's nights featuring New Wave and Hair-Metal band music instead? :D

 

I think one important point is that although retirees may take the longer cruises which cost more, I believe the bulk of cruise line revenue comes from the 4-7 day holidays which many people take. These shorter trips are more popular with people who are still working and don't have the option to take a 3-4 week cruise. Shorter duration cruises also come in at a lower price point therefore making them accessible to a larger portion of the population.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thrifty? I’d hardly say $1k on internet on the last cruise is thrifty

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

And you’re actually questioning who spends the most onboard? Pretty sure you won’t find many 50+ cruisers spending $1,000 on internet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thrifty? I’d hardly say $1k on internet on the last cruise is thrifty.

 

I read the supplied link and the information suggests that we spend more on holidays overall but that doesn’t mean we spend that on board. It just means we travel more overall.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Perhaps you're mixing 'new' cruisers with 'young' cruisers a little bit here. It deserves noting that not all 'new' cruisers are 'young', and not all 'young' cruisers are 'new' to cruising. However, by in large, the majority of 'new' cruisers also happen to be 'young'.

 

It's 'new' cruisers that Princess (along with all major cruiselines) are looking to entice, for the reason(s) that I stated above.

 

You're proving my point. My DW and I spent $0 on internet, each receiving 250 (loyalty)minutes for our 8-day cruise on the Crown last month -- More than enough for me -- as I still had some left to help spend the time waiting to disembark the last day.

 

Fairly soon before the sail-date, Princess emailed a casino rate that was around the lowest per person/per day that I've ever seen offered by them, but we were both able to get the time off short notice, and couldn't refuse $149 pp for an inside cabin. Coast-to-coast air was quite reasonable too.

 

In addition to the OBC from the FCC/FCD (we had purchased on our previous Princess sailing), having been Carnival Corp. shareholders for several years now, we also benefitted with more OBC from that relationship.

 

Yeah, we bought a few drinks on board, played some bingo on the final day, hit the Salty Dog one evening. We skipped our usual trip(s) to the Crown Grill this time around -- balking at both the raise in price, and the newer additional cover charge for multiple entrees.

 

Other than purchasing some sunscreen and a very reasonable bar bill. we didn't spend much on this cruise. Couple that with being a little lucky in the casino, and pulling a few C-notes out...I can absolutely guarantee that Princess lost money on us. Having a specific avg. onboard spending pp/pd target threshold, profit margins per passenger are very slim for cruise-lines. Mainstream lines make their money from the large overall volume of passengers.

 

With the money that we saved, we rented cars on the islands visited, having meals ashore and DIY touring.

 

FWIW - We avg. age late 30s, but are not necessarily new to cruising.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that new cruisers tend to spend more than experienced cruisers (which can be of any age) but those older experienced cruisers have more time on their hands (longer vacations, retirees) and probably take many more cruises. Most itineraries - with the exception of Alaska and maybe short warm weather cruises - don't attract new cruisers in numbers to fill an entire ship.

Certainly not so in our case.

We've cruises significantly more since retired & spent way less than we used to prior to retirement even though the number of days at sea has increased dramatically.

If it wasn't for the wife buying a few items on the ships sale day (maybe $20 or $30) our bill would be zero.

That was never the case when we first started cruising.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps you're mixing 'new' cruisers with 'young' cruisers a little bit here. It deserves noting that not all 'new' cruisers are 'young', and not all 'young' cruisers are 'new' to cruising. However, by in large, the majority of 'new' cruisers also happen to be 'young'.

 

 

 

It's 'new' cruisers that Princess (along with all major cruiselines) are looking to entice, for the reason(s) that I stated above.

 

 

 

You're proving my point. My DW and I spent $0 on internet, each receiving 250 (loyalty)minutes for our 8-day cruise on the Crown last month -- More than enough for me -- as I still had some left to help spend the time waiting to disembark the last day.

 

 

 

Fairly soon before the sail-date, Princess emailed a casino rate that was around the lowest per person/per day that I've ever seen offered by them, but we were both able to get the time off short notice, and couldn't refuse $149 pp for an inside cabin. Coast-to-coast air was quite reasonable too.

 

 

 

In addition to the OBC from the FCC/FCD (we had purchased on our previous Princess sailing), having been Carnival Corp. shareholders for several years now, we also benefitted with more OBC from that relationship.

 

 

 

Yeah, we bought a few drinks on board, played some bingo on the final day, hit the Salty Dog one evening. We skipped our usual trip(s) to the Crown Grill this time around -- balking at both the raise in price, and the newer additional cover charge for multiple entrees.

 

 

 

Other than purchasing some sunscreen and a very reasonable bar bill. we didn't spend much on this cruise. Couple that with being a little lucky in the casino, and pulling a few C-notes out...I can absolutely guarantee that Princess lost money on us. Having a specific avg. onboard spending pp/pd target threshold, profit margins per passenger are very slim for cruise-lines. Mainstream lines make their money from the large overall volume of passengers.

 

 

 

With the money that we saved, we rented cars on the islands visited, having meals ashore and DIY touring.

 

 

 

FWIW - We avg. age late 30s, but are not necessarily new to cruising.

 

 

 

I’ve only ever spent about $100 on the bar (about a drink a day), the coffee card ($45) and maybe one or two items from the souvenir shop. Outside of the internet (I was working the last cruise I took so needed internet) I spent only about $200 over 15 days. I didn’t do shore excursions. They seem overpriced and I go to destinations I’m familiar with. When I do Hawaii and Fiji (cruise after the next) I’m likely to do shore excursions that time).

 

My next cruise I’m anticipating about $550 overall on board but that may increase if I do a specialty restaurant.

 

I’m a Ruby member right now. I’ll be platinum after my next one (solo cruiser).

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A vacant stateroom like a vacant hotel room is lost revenue forever. Whatever the fare, it is income. And whether you spend $20 or $500 it’s revenue

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A vacant stateroom like a vacant hotel room is lost revenue forever. Whatever the fare, it is income. And whether you spend $20 or $500 it’s revenue

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

You've got that right.

There's always the chance you might have a few drinks, eat at Specialty restaurants, play bingo or spin the wheel at the slots. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You've got that right.

 

There's always the chance you might have a few drinks, eat at Specialty restaurants, play bingo or spin the wheel at the slots. ;)

 

 

 

The crowds of elite/platinum at BOGO + $1 show that a lot of long termers are spending some money as do the huge crowds at dining room sales. It’s all revenue.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The crowds of elite/platinum at BOGO + $1 show that a lot of long termers are spending some money as do the huge crowds at dining room sales. It’s all revenue.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

I personally subscribe to BYOB.

We haven't gone to pay restaurants since the price rise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When I do Hawaii and Fiji (cruise after the next)...

 

Sounds fun..Enjoy:D.

 

We're off today to go spend a couple of weeks on the Big Island.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×