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ronbe65

Celebrity Edge: A Clarification of Suite Perks vs Class Division

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The obvious grow in suite privileges on the new ship has got much attention on the message boards recently.

 

Celebrity Cruises has verbalized some changes: the Solstice deck and the forward viewing deck will be sacrificed in favor of the Suite Class Exclusive area.

 

There is a valid concern of how the expansion of the newly introduced "Suite Class" will affect cruising experience of "the rest of the passengers" that is actually about 86-88% of the total capacity, in the other words - the whole ship.

 

Many posters refer to the "ship within a ship" concept that is in use on select NCL and MSC ships.

Will Celebrity Edge be like those ones?

What is "ship within a ship" concept?

Is it good or bad?

Is there a line that marks the difference between the fairly typical suite perks "package" and the "ship within a ship" class division?

"Ship within a ship" concept

 

"Ship within a ship" (SWS) concept was introduced in 2008 on the MSC Fantasia. They have been marketing it as "Yacht Club".

SWS serves three main purposes:

1. To provide adequate or better cruising experince to a limited category of passengesr on a mass market mega ship where the overall product quality leaves much to be desired (too many passengers, less than stellar food & service).

2. To fill the top lines in advertising brochures. A marketing trick to create an impression of the high quality product overall, despite the fact that only 4% of the passengers can benefit from the SWS area (that in fact adds nothing to the ship rating overall).

3. Increase in revenue as the square feet in the YC bring 2-3 times more money.

 

"Ship within a ship" - a separate key-entry area behind the locked doors on a cruise ship that includes accommodations, dining venues, lounges, libraries, sun decks, bars, reception desks, pools that are available exclusively to the SWS passengers.

 

Looking at the real world situation in the cruise industry, SWS is an indirect sign of the "not-so-good" product overall.

Suite Perks

 

Virtually all large cruise ships offer privileges to suit passengers - those who are willing to pay more.

This is absolutely natural and sounds fare.

Suite privileges vary from ship to ship, and may include access to a dedicated lounge, a dedicated restaurant or a particular open deck space.

Unlike "ship within a ship" concept, the "suite perks" do not form an integrative exclusive area on a ship.

With the exception of a few "suite only" spots, the whole ship is "access for all" from the bow to the stern.

This is in my opinion the most civilized way of setting up suite privileges on a cruise ship.

 

How does the presence of SWS or the suite perks affect cruising experience of the majority of passengers?

How do all things get along in the limited space of a cruise ship?

As always, devil is in the detail.

The implementation depends on the taste, level of culture, respect to the passengers that the cruise line management is willing to demonstrate.

How many examples of the right/wrong implementation of SWS concept can I give you here?

Only two, because there are only two cruise lines that utilize this concept.

 

The worst first

 

A photo from our recent cruise on MSC Preziosa.

The SWS forward upper deck is completely separated from the "rest of the ship", i.e. from MSC Preziosa.

Passengers have no access to the observation longe, nor to views forward at all.

The cruise line decided that you have no right to enjoy views forward unless you pay for SWS.

The other view is YC atrium.

 

120.jpg

 

 

The second case: not so bad at all

Yes, we always mention these two cruise lines (NCL and MSC) in connection with SWS.

However, a closer look at NCL Getaway reveals a different picture.

 

Look at the top forward deck.

The Haven SWS is taking it's part of the premium area of the ship.

But a lot of space is allocated for the Getaway too:

 

 

100.jpg

 

 

This is forward sun deck on NCL Getaway. It's a "serene deck" that is away from major crowds.

Views forward - here you are:

 

102.jpg

 

 

A brief side note.

Please take a few more looks at NCL Getaway an then.....

 

Two (!) promenade decks on NCL Getaway:

 

101.jpg

 

 

The wake...

 

103.jpg

 

 

Thalassotherapy pool on NCL Getaway (one of a few best at sea):

 

104.jpg

 

 

You have 5 pictures of the Getaway above.

Can you trace anything of this kind on the Celebrity Edge?

Don't you think that while Celebrity were cutting off edges of the Solstice class, NCL quietly outclassed Celebrity?

Is Celebrity Edge a desparate attempt to catch the train that is far ahead?

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OK, back to our topic.

 

The hope that did not come true

 

When heard of the new project for the first time, I thought: "I wish it would be a project based on Mein Schiff 3 !"

 

Mein Schiff 3 is one of a few top cruise ships out there. This beautiful ship is based on Celebrity Solstice layout. However the ship is a fantastic inprovement of the Solstice.

What else could I wish for the new Celebrity ship?

 

In this article I would like to present you Mein Schiff 3 as a role model.

Her creators had enough taste and talent, and more important - respect to their passengers, to be able to put all things together without creating SWS.

 

The X-Class (suite class) has a dedicated sun deck, a lounge and a forward viewing area.

All these premium venies are duplicated so that all the passengers can enjoy the ship in it's fullness:

 

 

109.jpg

 

 

Two-deck high X-Class suites:

 

110.jpg

 

 

 

X-Class viewing area and lounge:

 

111.jpg

 

 

 

Public access observation lounge and forward sun deck & viewing area :

 

112.jpg

 

 

Not the end of story...

 

On the scale from MSC Preziosa >>>> NCL Getaway >>>> Mein Schiff 3 - where the Celebrity Edge is going to be?

 

There are no chances to rich the level of Mein Schiff 3 .

At the moment it's floating between Getaway and Preziosa.

The last straw that separates the Edge from the worst example is the uncertainty of the forward observation lounge status.

If the lounge is public access, the Egge will freeze in between.

If not.... the bottom level will extend its hugs to the new member of the club.

 

 

The amount of time invested in this article is my respect to fellow Celebrity cruisers.

 

.

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Very interesting comparison of the different ways cruise lines split up public space access according to stateroom type. Thank you for spending time creating this overview.

 

In my opinion, given the premium prices Celebrity is able to charge for suites and given the success of the Haven on NCL and Yacht Club on MSC, my presumption is they'll sacrifice at least some of the experience for non-suite cruisers compared to current Celebrity ships. But I don't think the "standard" experience will get as basic and non-luxurios as on those two other lines where the difference between suite and non-suite is quite large.

 

That being said, we're very intrigued by both the suite and the non-suite dining, entertainment and lounge options on Edge, so we booked two cruises, one in an Infinite Balcony and one in a Sky Suite so we could compare both experiences. We made sure to first do the non-suite cruise as for sure it will compare less favourably with the suite experience.

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Looking at the NCL example (Getaway), it is of note that while Getaway, Breakaway, and Escape offer a large portion of forward sundeck for "the masses", the newest ship (Bliss) gives the entire forward sundeck to the Haven.

 

Since Bliss is meant to split time between Alaska and the Caribbean, the forward views are mainly to be seen from the enclosed observation lounges. There is one for the Haven and another for all.

 

I believe that the gap between Haven and non-Haven on NCL will be larger than the gap between suite and non-suite on Celebrity Edge. I understand the anxiety that some may feel if they believe that non-suite experience will "fall" in quality while the suites will rise but my belief is that it won't happen...but I've never sailed Celebrity. :halo:

 

If/when I do, it will be a suite on Edge as someone coming from NCL Haven and (soon) MSC Yacht Club.

 

I've been trying to read up on Edge and I am a bit surprised by the reaction that some have to the Retreat. I think that it is great but others (strongly) feel differently.

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No open and enclosed forward viewing area available for everyone - no booking.

 

That is the litmus test for my group of cruisers.

 

If the forward viewing is made exclusive to suite only - Celebrity will confirm their distain for non suite passengers.

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cruiserke;55128632']

 

That being said' date=' we're very intrigued by both the suite and the non-suite dining, entertainment and lounge options on Edge, so we booked two cruises, one in an Infinite Balcony and one in a Sky Suite so we could compare both experiences. We made sure to first do the non-suite cruise as for sure it will compare less favourably with the suite experience.[/quote']

 

We have also booked 2 cruises B2B, one in a Sky Suite and one in AQ with an infinite balcony, in part to get a taste of both the suite and non-suite life (albeit only 3 nights each since they are preview cruises). You were the smart one in booking the non-suite first - I booked the suite for the first cruise and may have suite withdrawal on the second leg. ;) I am going in with an open mind - there is so much to experience on this ship, I am pretty sure we will have a wonderful time on both cruises.

 

Ronbe65: thanks for taking the time to show some examples (and pictures) of how other lines have developed their suite experience. I have been in RCI and Celebrity suites before, but never with a Retreat-type set up. When I saw it on day 1 of the Edge reveal, I wanted to experience it and booked a suite immediately at what I consider a good price. I have since booked the preview cruises since I am so intrigued by this ship.

 

I am not sure how exclusive the Retreat will feel - with more suites than any other Celebrity ship, and many designed for families, it may not be the retreat that we envisioned. If not, if we like the vibe of the rest of the ship, we will book AQ or SV's on the Edge in the future and happily do without The Retreat. :D

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SWS design can work well and be invisible to the majority of guests when properly placed. Many upscale hotels do this very successfully. NCL does a good job on most of their ships. I agree that the MSC design you cite is the wrong way to go about it. The higher income per square foot is a prudent business choice, IMO, but I fail to see how SWS means the service and food for the rest of the ship will suffer (if you move Luminae and Michael's Club to another part of the ship, how is the service for the rest of us degraded?) Ronbe65, I get that you are very upset that an Edge alteration to the Solstice class ships would take over the Solstice deck on the front of the ship - but as you and I both know, that front space was never discovered by probably 98% of the guests. And there is absolutely no evidence that deck 15 on Edge will be anything other than the Sky Observation Lounge, open to all - not just Suites. As far as ranking the ships - everyone's opinion will be different, but I wouldn't want to sail on a ship with 4000 people (Getaway), and of course they have a walking deck outside the restaurant level because they have to move 1000 additional people. I have been on several NCL cruises - they were just OK. My vote right now is still for Celebrity. The reveals will determine the winner.

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.....but I fail to see how SWS means the service and food for the rest of the ship will suffer (if you move Luminae and Michael's Club to another part of the ship, how is the service for the rest of us degraded?)

 

I remember when Michael's Club was available to all passengers, regardless of how much money they spent on a room. Now, it is reserved for suite guests only. While not affecting "service and food" as you are focusing on, it does diminish the available areas that the non-suite passengers can enjoy, thereby affecting their overall experience. That is a gain for suite passengers and a loss for non-suite passengers.

 

And that is only one example. On Solstice, Equinox, Eclipse and Silhouette, the Sky Observation Lounge has 180 degree views out the large windows, and plenty of space to enjoy for the view outside, or for nighttime activities. However, on Reflection, when Celebrity started their obsession with expanding suite amenities, a large portion of that lounge was taken away to add more suites. Reflection's lounge space is half the size of her sister ships, and the view has been reduced to only 90 degrees. THAT is taking away from non-suite passengers to give to suite passengers.

 

Considering that Edge is 40 feet shorter than Reflection, with about the same number of passengers, but with a higher percent of the total square footage designated only for suite passengers (including staterooms and "exclusive" areas), the non-suite passengers will have less area to enjoy as a result.

 

If you take away an increasingly larger part of the whole and give it to a select group of people, there will be less of the whole left for the rest of the people to enjoy. It's a simple physics problem.

Edited by sloopsailor

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The folks who can afford $50,000 a week or more for the top suites on the Edge can also afford to charter their own yacht and go where they want and eat what they want - all without a bunch of hassles, like a mandatory muster drill, among others. The reason they choose Celebrity is because of what Celebrity offers besides the cabin - like entertainment, a casino, choice of six restaurants, a large gym, beautiful spa, advanced medical center, etc. Those amenities- which will be top notch to attract these passengers - are available to everyone. If I was a “regular cabin” passenger, I’d be happy with that equation, even knowing that there are some things not available to me. And the reason why you can sail the MSC Yacht Club for $4,000 a week is because the rest of the ship doesn’t justify much more (I tried it). New cruisers will understand the value proposition that the regular Edge cabins offer, more so than some cruise veterans who will feel like they are being shortchanged for the benefit of suite passengers. I think Celebrity realizes this and they’re fine with it.

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I find this topic rather interesting because it can be so divisive.

 

Long before ship-within-a-ship concepts became popular, there have been particular areas of many vessels which are restricted unless you pay up. For example, the Persian Garden on Century Class. Now, you could argue that any passenger can open their wallet to get past those doors and enjoy the unique space. But could we not also argue that anyone can also open their wallet prior to booking a cruise to gain access to the unique spaces afforded to the passengers of certain cabin categories if that is important to them?

 

And how do people feel about Aqua Class? Is it acceptable for Celebrity to have a private dining venue for these passengers only (yes, suite guests can access space available)?

 

To me, this comes down to how each particular passenger values certain amenities onboard. Some care not to spend extra to enjoy higher level dining at Murano, while they may value the perceived benefits of the Persian Garden and buy a cruise-long pass. But as has always been the case, you have to pay more to get more on a cruise. Gone are the days of a virtually all-inclusive price for the mainstream lines.

 

And, this is almost entirely a non-sequitur, but I couldn't help but chuckle when thinking about the forward observation lounge being shrunk on Reflection to make room for high dollar suites:

 

I was on Solstice this past summer and the forward observation lounge was reserved for private events very, very frequently. I would estimate >50% of the time. This meant that suite guest or not, your chances of enjoying the space were rather diminished unless you were involved in these events (many/most of which were not Captain's Club-related).

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I find this topic rather interesting because it can be so divisive.

 

Long before ship-within-a-ship concepts became popular, there have been particular areas of many vessels which are restricted unless you pay up. For example, the Persian Garden on Century Class. Now, you could argue that any passenger can open their wallet to get past those doors and enjoy the unique space. But could we not also argue that anyone can also open their wallet prior to booking a cruise to gain access to the unique spaces afforded to the passengers of certain cabin categories if that is important to them?.

 

I don't know about your alternate reality, but in the one I actually live in, if I want to use Persian gardens, I can do so for a few dollars, not a few thousand necessary to book a suite so to gain access to that area. If I want to splurge for one evening in a specialty restaurant, I can do it for a few dollars, not hundreds required to book a suite to dine in their specialty restaurant. That is a huge difference for people who don't have money to burn on a suite but want to occasional treat themselves to a perk once in a while. Not everyone can afford a suite, but they often can afford one or two treats during a cruise.

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It's all relative. For you, perhaps $100 on a dinner for two in Murano is doable, but perhaps not for the couple who saved up for a dream vacation in a $500pp inside cabin special. They may watch longingly through the window while you linger over the finer things offered on the ship which are not available to them, or, they may enjoy what they paid for and be quite happy without resenting what others have chosen to do with their own money ;).

 

[i am playing devil's advocate here.]

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I think I’ll wait to actually experience the Edge before I start guessing if there will be any adverse impact on non-Suite cruisers.

 

I agree, I was bothered at losing access to the Michael’s Club. But the reduction of the Obseration Louinge on a few of the S-Class was to add SR’s (yup, Suites), not cut out common lounge area to give the Suite customers exclusive use of that as a Lounge. And I personally don’t pick those S-Class ships unless there is a specific itinerary to do so.

 

I’ve never tried Suites and probably won’t. Our initial cruises were in Oceanview SR’s but a cruise offered us a Balcony for ‘only’ a few bucks more and we jumped on it. And just like so many others, we never went back! So I really don’t want to get a ‘good deal’ upgrade to a Suite......and never go back to ‘just a balcony’.

 

Den

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.... But the reduction of the Obseration Louinge on a few of the S-Class was to add SR’s (yup, Suites), not cut out common lounge area to give the Suite customers exclusive use of that as a Lounge. ....

 

Well, one could easily argue that the reduction of the Reflection lounge that was taken away to add more suites is absolutely for the exclusive use of suite guests - and it is even more exclusive to only those suite guests who booked those rooms! ;p

 

It really doesn't matter how that space is being used, it is still for exclusive use for suite guests and not for non-suite passengers.

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I find this topic fascinating because I can see that it is changing the character of the ships from straightforward holiday fun, to a tiered eperience that will make a lot of passengers feel second class.

I am intrigued as to what sort of person is attracted to the SWS product. If you have the money for such a thing, why not spend it on a cruising in a smaller luxury ship? Is it because the mainstream lines offer gaudy decor or the opportunity to lord it over the other passengers, whilst the luxury suites provide a suaver ambience and a feeling of camaraderie with one's fellow passengers?

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I am intrigued as to what sort of person is attracted to the SWS product. If you have the money for such a thing, why not spend it on a cruising in a smaller luxury ship? Is it because the mainstream lines offer gaudy decor or the opportunity to lord it over the other passengers, whilst the luxury suites provide a suaver ambience and a feeling of camaraderie with one's fellow passengers?

 

It depends on the ship. For someone with young children, the ship within a ship offers the fun and entertainment of a mega ship with the opportunity to (NCL) Escape the crowds and "retreat" (pun) to an exclusive area with better service and amenities.

 

On a smaller luxury ship, my kids (and I) would probably be bored to tears. I'm sure that the service would be excellent but are the smaller luxury ships considered to be fun and if so, by whom?

Edited by Two Wheels Only

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I think I’ll wait to actually experience the Edge before I start guessing if there will be any adverse impact on non-Suite cruisers.

 

-------

 

I’ve never tried Suites and probably won’t. Our initial cruises were in Oceanview SR’s but a cruise offered us a Balcony for ‘only’ a few bucks more and we jumped on it. And just like so many others, we never went back! So I really don’t want to get a ‘good deal’ upgrade to a Suite......and never go back to ‘just a balcony’.

 

Den

 

d - our first sailing was in a Verandah, 1A, tried a 1C and just could not do it, relatively well that is. Keep thinking about Concierge, but I Am not ready to justify the jump yet without a push from my spouse... because we all know what happens next!

 

We sailed with friends last year who were in a suite, which was great when we visited and had a few parties there... I will be kicking and screaming to make the jump to suite level without a major income increase to justify it... LOL, then again.

 

bon voyage

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I find this topic fascinating because I can see that it is changing the character of the ships from straightforward holiday fun, to a tiered eperience that will make a lot of passengers feel second class.

I am intrigued as to what sort of person is attracted to the SWS product. If you have the money for such a thing, why not spend it on a cruising in a smaller luxury ship? Is it because the mainstream lines offer gaudy decor or the opportunity to lord it over the other passengers, whilst the luxury suites provide a suaver ambience and a feeling of camaraderie with one's fellow passengers?

 

IME we are not made to feel "2nd Class" by the cruise line only marginally by very, very few passengers, if any, on the same sailing.

 

Maybe you have not been pleasure cruising too long to understand that different ships/cruise lines offer different feels in the product and that is what many of us are purchasing, the product and its' experience.

 

Some of us do appreciate the differences between lines and understand that we can either move up or move down pending on what we choose to expose or surround ourselves to. This is NOT to say that other ships/cruise lines do not have good products, just products many of us have no value of and prefer X's approach. Are there challenges with X, yes some do have challenges yet for the most part they are worked out on-board.

 

Now, if one cannot appreciate or like 'class' differences that are on many ships now, then there are a few ships which do not offer these 'extreme' differences except by deck level.

 

As You Like It.... you can sail it...

 

 

bon voyage

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Well, one could easily argue that the reduction of the Reflection lounge that was taken away to add more suites is absolutely for the exclusive use of suite guests - and it is even more exclusive to only those suite guests who booked those rooms! ;p

 

It really doesn't matter how that space is being used, it is still for exclusive use for suite guests and not for non-suite passengers.

 

I’ll disagree that the Reflection’s lounge was divided to provide exclusive use by Suite guests. It was divided to add SRs that are suites. Suite guests can’t use those spaces except for the people who have those SRs, not for exclusive use by suite guests.

 

That’s kind of saying that my Balcony SR is for exclusive use by that class of customer and oceanview and inside SR guests can’t. And neither can any other Balcony, Suite, Aqua, etc guests. Only Me....and of course my wife!

 

I think there are legit arguments about how much does the standard guests lose when perks are expanded for others.

 

I remember one poster complaining about how the forward lounges are set for exclusive use at set times for Captains Club or Elites for social events. Yup. Happens and those that don’t fit those categories lose out for that time period. But since I get to slurp free drinks for a short while there, I love it! Very subjective view isn’t it.

 

By the way, remember all the postings about how terrible it was when Celebrity set up the Elite happy hrs and the early diners lost out of time to knock them down. Big arguments and anger about getting freebies but not ‘enough’ and someone else is gettting more. Personally, I don’t need that much of time. I can knock them down really quickly!!

 

Den

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I don't miss it if it was not part of my cruise experience..,what stings is when the Cruiseline reduces your access, takes away perks that you once enjoyed,

 

When we made Diamond ( as Celeb Elite), we really enjoyed the card access Diamond Club for coffee, snacks, conversation, concierge services, By our next Royal cruise, Diamonds were kicked out of the Club..only D + allowed.. That move by Royal was the result of limited capacity in their current ships but led to many unhappy pax. The newer ships were planned for the expected Ds and D plus but now we hear the nightly event is getting crowded now as well.

 

On X, after enjoying Michael's Club as Elite and E plus for a number of years, we lost that to suites and Zenith guests. That was disappointing and the replacement location just does not have the same feel..,.But at this point, they could never fit Elites into Michaels. Hope EDGE will have its spaces for suite guests but also have something nice for E and up guests as well. These days, suites get more...they pay more, but loyalty should count too

 

, I have no issue with pvt areas overall, as long as there's enough for the rest of us to enjoy, On other lines, the suite areas are now attracting families with kids, so would not be good for us anyhow.

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I’ll disagree that the Reflection’s lounge was divided to provide exclusive use by Suite guests. It was divided to add SRs that are suites. Suite guests can’t use those spaces except for the people who have those SRs, not for exclusive use by suite guests.

 

But when you book that SR stateroom, you are a "suite guest", right? Otherwise, it wouldn't be a suite. ;)

 

An area that can only be used by suite guests but not by non-suite passengers - whether a lounge, restaurant, pool deck, or even a stateroom - is indeed exclusively for use by suite guests. Makes no difference what the space is used for. If the non-suite guests aren't allowed in it, then it is exclusively for suite guests. Just like "Employee Only" areas are exclusively for use by employees only, regardless of what those spaces are. You can't refuse to call the employee living areas "employee" areas just because they are private for only the actual occupants of a particular room. They are still exclusively for employees only areas. :D

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Now, if one cannot appreciate or like 'class' differences that are on many ships now, then there are a few ships which do not offer these 'extreme' differences except by deck level.

 

 

I believe that there is a common understanding of the opposite: all cruise ships are one-class ships with a few exceptions limited to select MSC and NCL ships.

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But when you book that SR stateroom, you are a "suite guest", right? Otherwise, it wouldn't be a suite. ;)

 

An area that can only be used by suite guests but not by non-suite passengers - whether a lounge, restaurant, pool deck, or even a stateroom - is indeed exclusively for use by suite guests. Makes no difference what the space is used for. If the non-suite guests aren't allowed in it, then it is exclusively for suite guests. Just like "Employee Only" areas are exclusively for use by employees only, regardless of what those spaces are. You can't refuse to call the employee living areas "employee" areas just because they are private for only the actual occupants of a particular room. They are still exclusively for employees only areas. :D

 

 

 

Based on this bizarre logic then most of Edge will be exclusive use for non-Suite guests since the majority of the cabins on the ship are not suites...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

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