MSC Seaside nasty odor

[eroller]

So is there a giant air handling plant in the engine room that provides for the whole ship? Or a heat and cooling plant that is plumbed to remote air handling units around the ship? And are the air intakes all around the funnel?

 

 

There are large HVAC plants around the ship. On certain decks, some of those large blank white spaces you see on the deck plan are HVAC plants. There are air intakes all around the ship. They are easy to spot. Usually large oval shaped grills, many times near and around the promenade deck depending on the ship.

 

Here you can see some on this pic I took onboard QUEEN MARY 2. They are just below the first row of balconies and above the glass wall.

 

 

[chengkp75]

Cheng ... With the engine room further forward as is the smoke stack, do you believe that this could have contributed to the issues ?

The wind direction at times for me would certainly drive the outflow from the stack down onto deck 16 rather than out to sea.

I remember complaints of soot on the rails of the Aft cabins on Divina a while back.

 

In reality, most cruise ship engine rooms stretch the entire length of the ship. Where the diesels are placed is only a matter of balancing the stability and lightship trim of the ship. Could the more forward placement of the funnel (by maybe 10-15 meters, in my looking at ships) contribute to backflow of vent gases? Perhaps, and certainly only in certain weather conditions.

[chengkp75]

So is there a giant air handling plant in the engine room that provides for the whole ship? Or a heat and cooling plant that is plumbed to remote air handling units around the ship? And are the air intakes all around the funnel?

 

Okay, here's how ship's HVAC works. The refrigerant cycle is done completely within the engine room, where the large centrifugal AC chillers chill a fresh water closed loop system. This chilled water system is piped around the ship to cool the air.

 

In each cabin, 80% of the cabin's volume is recirculated every hour, past a small cooling coil by a small fan, and that cooling coil is cooled by the chilled water from the engine room. This is what is controlled by the cabin thermostat.

 

Now, the ship is divided into "vertical fire zones" that most passengers only notice because of the retractable fire doors in the passageways by their cabins. Each fire zone (probably 7-10 on Seaside) has completely segregated HVAC systems, so that in the event of a fire, the ventilation for the zone where the fire is can be shut down. Within each fire zone, there will be large air handling rooms (called "battery rooms") that will have a number of large air handlers (fan, filter, cooling coil), all cooled by the chilled water again. Now, these air handlers will supply fresh air to a bank of cabins (20% of cabin's volume per hour) (typically all the cabins on one side of the ship, insides and outsides, for the entire fire zone, for one or two decks, so maybe 30-50 cabins), or it may supply a public space or be one of several air handlers for a large public space.

 

The cabin bathroom exhaust (which is a central fan for banks of cabins, not one for each cabin), as well as exhaust fans for the passageways, and exhaust fans for the public spaces removes 20% of the volume, to balance the 20% added as fresh air. These exhaust fans utilize heat recovery equipment to pre-cool the incoming fresh air by having it give up heat to the cooler outgoing exhaust air.

 

Now, since the air handlers for each fire zone are located in that fire zone, hence all along the ship, there will be many intakes and exhaust vents, as noted by eroller's photo, though some of those can also be mechanical space ventilation. Typically the only ventilation fans that are close to the funnels are the engine room supply fans, engine room exhaust fans, and galley exhaust fans.

 

So, while there are probably only 4 chillers (as I said, probably 5000-8000 hp each), there will be close to a hundred ventilation fans just for the hotel side of the ship.

[plantlady104]

Just returned from 1/27-2/3 Seaside cruise. Yes, the odor still exists. We were group of 8 with 4 rooms on deck 10 port midsection. We had 2 days and 2 nights of intermittent septic smell, and also noted it in certain sections of hallway. Worst was during the night and early morning. Our bathrooms actually smelled nice, but the ventilation to the main room was not. Ship twice shut down some of the 10 floor flush system to "clean out clog or correct system". The first was early morning during the cruise, and quickly returned the system to functioning. More aggravating was shutting down the system at 06:30am on debarkation day, when bathrooms are at a premium throughout the ship, since must leave room by 7am. It did not return to functioning when left room at 7am. If not an emergency shutdown, they should post signs/warnings to the rooms before it happens. Room stewards were left with some not so nice toilet issues to deal with when turning over the rooms for next cruise.

 

During cruise all the main inside deck venues were fine, with no noticeable smell. Seems to be more located in passenger hallways and the 18 deck jungle pool/slide area. Also smelled it returning to ship along the pier at Costa Maya, as aft of ship was toward the walking area of the pier. Wonder if other the cruise line ship (RCL) passengers noticed it and were glad to be going to their ship and not the Seaside?

[mianmike]

Just saw this posted to a Seaside group on Facebook:

 

just received this from MSC:

MSC Cruises We’ve unfortunately experienced a ventilation issue with one of the air conditioning units due to an erroneous installation during the ship's construction. Its location has resulted in some occasional uptake of undesirable odors from other systems on the ship which were becoming more frequent under some specific wind conditions. A technical solution has already been identified and implemented. It has considerably reduced the bad odors and will progressively eliminate the issue entirely in the next few days.

Says it posted six hours ago.

Thanks for sharing Gert. This vindicates all the people who reported the sewer smell and were accused of being unsophisticated American complainers who can't enjoy anything. Bravo to MSC for the admission.

[DCGuy64]

Thanks for sharing Gert. This vindicates all the people who reported the sewer smell and were accused of being unsophisticated American complainers who can't enjoy anything. Bravo to MSC for the admission.

 

 

 

And this also vindicates those of us who assured them that MSC would investigate and correct the problem, so that people like me traveling 8 months from now had nothing to worry about. [emoji6]

 

 

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[ssmea03]

Okay, here's how ship's HVAC works. The refrigerant cycle is done completely within the engine room, where the large centrifugal AC chillers chill a fresh water closed loop system. This chilled water system is piped around the ship to cool the air.

 

In each cabin, 80% of the cabin's volume is recirculated every hour, past a small cooling coil by a small fan, and that cooling coil is cooled by the chilled water from the engine room. This is what is controlled by the cabin thermostat.

 

Now, the ship is divided into "vertical fire zones" that most passengers only notice because of the retractable fire doors in the passageways by their cabins. Each fire zone (probably 7-10 on Seaside) has completely segregated HVAC systems, so that in the event of a fire, the ventilation for the zone where the fire is can be shut down. Within each fire zone, there will be large air handling rooms (called "battery rooms") that will have a number of large air handlers (fan, filter, cooling coil), all cooled by the chilled water again. Now, these air handlers will supply fresh air to a bank of cabins (20% of cabin's volume per hour) (typically all the cabins on one side of the ship, insides and outsides, for the entire fire zone, for one or two decks, so maybe 30-50 cabins), or it may supply a public space or be one of several air handlers for a large public space.

 

The cabin bathroom exhaust (which is a central fan for banks of cabins, not one for each cabin), as well as exhaust fans for the passageways, and exhaust fans for the public spaces removes 20% of the volume, to balance the 20% added as fresh air. These exhaust fans utilize heat recovery equipment to pre-cool the incoming fresh air by having it give up heat to the cooler outgoing exhaust air.

 

Now, since the air handlers for each fire zone are located in that fire zone, hence all along the ship, there will be many intakes and exhaust vents, as noted by eroller's photo, though some of those can also be mechanical space ventilation. Typically the only ventilation fans that are close to the funnels are the engine room supply fans, engine room exhaust fans, and galley exhaust fans.

 

So, while there are probably only 4 chillers (as I said, probably 5000-8000 hp each), there will be close to a hundred ventilation fans just for the hotel side of the ship.

Thanks, very informative.

So could the louvres on the aft zip line tower be the culprits? I assume the mini funnel is a vent rather than an intake.

Xodo Document - tmg-article_tall.pdf

[eroller]

Thanks, very informative.

 

So could the louvres on the aft zip line tower be the culprits? I assume the mini funnel is a vent rather than an intake.

 

 

 

Many times the aft mini funnel is an exhaust for the galley below. I’m not sure this is the case for SEASIDE. Ive even seen the forward mast double as a galley exhaust, but much more rare.

[sidari]

There are intake louvres along both sides of the ship on the widest part above deck 8 and 9, or could they be vents?

[TravelinGert]

I just hope it is fixed or at least better by the time I board on Saturday. It doesn't sound like the fix should take all that long once the culprit is identified and parts are received. I guess who knows how long to received appropriate parts, though. Perhaps chengkp75 can weigh in with an estimation how long it should be expected to take?

[mianmike]

And this also vindicates those of us who assured them that MSC would investigate and correct the problem, so that people like me traveling 8 months from now had nothing to worry about. [emoji6]

 

 

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People were claiming MSC was fine with the sewer smell and would do nothing about it? :eek: I missed that! I'm with you there. Why anyone would think a business would do something so suicidal is beyond me.

 

The main issue I saw was people didn't believe the reports of sewer smell or if they believed there was a smell it must be minor that only an unsophisticated American would have a problem with.

[jcathers1]

Thanks for sharing Gert. This vindicates all the people who reported the sewer smell and were accused of being unsophisticated American complainers who can't enjoy anything. Bravo to MSC for the admission.

 

 

 

Actually, it vindicates all the recommendations from seasoned cruisers to 1) not cruise on a brand new ship or 2) expect a myriad of staffing, service, or technical issues.

 

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Louvers or grilles up high are most typically exhaust vents, the fresh air intakes are down lower, most likely where sidari says they are, on the widest outside part of the ship.

 

I think that aft "funnel" is just a dummy. I have seen the foremast used as the laundry exhaust from the dryers.

 

I don't know what the layout of the problem is (where the offending vent is located, and its spatial relationship to the air intakes, or the arrangement of the whole problem on the ship), so I would only be giving a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess), but I would suspect 3-4 weeks to fabricate needed items, and purchase needed equipment, and then 1-2 weeks of onboard work to install it all.

[BermudaBound2014]

Thank you Chengkp75- I’ll take your SWAG over MSC promises any day.

 

Maybe you can take another SWAG and help me understand. I still don’t get how people have reported sewer smell in a much wider range of areas than simply one vent. I’ve recorded reports of sewer smell in nearly every area of the ship from deck 4-14 and forward to aft. Could there be more than one vent effected?

 

 

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[DCGuy64]

FWIW, I've smelled some pretty disgusting odors onboard the ships I've sailed, and never once considered blaming the cruise line. I'm talking about the loo, and it's called the human digestive system. Maybe ventilation is the issue and not defective plumbing?

[chengkp75]

Thank you Chengkp75- I’ll take your SWAG over MSC promises any day.

 

Maybe you can take another SWAG and help me understand. I still don’t get how people have reported sewer smell in a much wider range of areas than simply one vent. I’ve recorded reports of sewer smell in nearly every area of the ship from deck 4-14 and forward to aft. Could there be more than one vent effected?

 

 

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This is what baffles me, when MSC says that one intake is at fault. Of course, the air inside the ship doesn't abide by the fire zone delineations as long as the fire doors are open, so there will be some commingling of stinky air with not stinky, but if they are saying it is only in certain wind conditions, then I would not expect it to be so wide spread or lingering. This is why my bet is on an "extraction fan" placed in the sewage tank/plant vent pipe to propel the gases higher up away from the ship as being the fix to be implemented. I'm just not buying totally into the one improperly placed vent being the problem. Another thought might be that the sewage tank/plant vent is in such a location that the gases are "stalled" from leaving the top of the vent by something like the engine exhaust gases when underway, and this puts a very slight pressurization on the sewage tank/plant which then back pressures up the drains and burps through the traps.

[BermudaBound2014]

FWIW, I've smelled some pretty disgusting odors onboard the ships I've sailed, and never once considered blaming the cruise line. I'm talking about the loo, and it's called the human digestive system. Maybe ventilation is the issue and not defective plumbing?

 

 

MSC has admitted there is a sewer problem on Seaside. If MSC is willing to accept blame and has openly acknowledged that a problem exists above what would be “normally expected”, I’m willing to believe them.

 

 

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[BermudaBound2014]

Thank you Chenge... I’m baffled too. I do give Msc credit for acknowledging that a problem exists.

 

Im even more baffled at how travers continue to claim that a problem does not exist when the company admitted to a faulty construction design.

 

Only time will tell if the problem goes away and I recommend that potential cruisers continue to monitor reviews.

 

 

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[TravelinGert]

Louvers or grilles up high are most typically exhaust vents, the fresh air intakes are down lower, most likely where sidari says they are, on the widest outside part of the ship.

 

I think that aft "funnel" is just a dummy. I have seen the foremast used as the laundry exhaust from the dryers.

 

I don't know what the layout of the problem is (where the offending vent is located, and its spatial relationship to the air intakes, or the arrangement of the whole problem on the ship), so I would only be giving a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess), but I would suspect 3-4 weeks to fabricate needed items, and purchase needed equipment, and then 1-2 weeks of onboard work to install it all.

 

So not in time for my cruise but still very quick for such a project. Impressive.

[BestNC Cruiser]

Thank you Chenge... I’m baffled too. I do give Msc credit for acknowledging that a problem exists.

 

Im even more baffled at how travers continue to claim that a problem does not exist when the company admitted to a faulty construction design.

 

Only time will tell if the problem goes away and I recommend that potential cruisers continue to monitor reviews.

 

 

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I have seaside on my very short list for a future cruise. That said, I have a small list of things that I must see get fixed/improved before committing 100%. The smell issues is on that list.

 

 

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[canter168]

I have seaside on my very short list for a future cruise. That said, I have a small list of things that I must see get fixed/improved before committing 100%. The smell issues is on that list.

 

 

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lucky to you. we are embark in 3 weeks time and all paid for. no way out. :loudcry::loudcry:

[mianmike]

Actually, it vindicates all the recommendations from seasoned cruisers to 1) not cruise on a brand new ship or 2) expect a myriad of staffing, service, or technical issues.

 

 

 

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Luckily I missed all the arguments over people claiming there is not a history of initial problems with brand new ships. :confused:

[jcathers1]

Luckily I missed all the arguments over people claiming there is not a history of initial problems with brand new ships. :confused:

 

 

 

So folks were fully expecting service and technical snafus that would easily be remedied within the first few months, and still have returned so aghast and dismayed?

 

Perhaps that’s even worse. [emoji849]

 

 

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[mianmike]

So folks were fully expecting service and technical snafus that would easily be remedied within the first few months, and still have returned so aghast and dismayed?

 

Perhaps that’s even worse. [emoji849]

 

 

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I agree--crazy as it seems--but if that were to happen it would be worse. Thankfully I have not seen anyone post such an assertion.

[ssmea03]

This is what baffles me, when MSC says that one intake is at fault. Of course, the air inside the ship doesn't abide by the fire zone delineations as long as the fire doors are open, so there will be some commingling of stinky air with not stinky, but if they are saying it is only in certain wind conditions, then I would not expect it to be so wide spread or lingering. This is why my bet is on an "extraction fan" placed in the sewage tank/plant vent pipe to propel the gases higher up away from the ship as being the fix to be implemented. I'm just not buying totally into the one improperly placed vent being the problem. Another thought might be that the sewage tank/plant vent is in such a location that the gases are "stalled" from leaving the top of the vent by something like the engine exhaust gases when underway, and this puts a very slight pressurization on the sewage tank/plant which then back pressures up the drains and burps through the traps.

 

I assume it wouldn't be standard procedure to do scale model wind tunnel tests. Just to see what blows where and when?