Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[Mark_T]

Just as a guide to what is happening to cruises right now, AmaVerde and AmaVenita are currently on itineraries from Amsterdam to Budapest, but neither of them has made it past Cologne...

After adding an unscheduled additional stop in the Netherlands they each arrived at Cologne a day late then instead of heading further south they turned around and moored a bit further north at Düsseldorf.

On the other end of the cruise, AmaReina and AmaBella were moored in Vienna as they cannot get to Budapest and Passau is as far upstream as they have been able to go in the last couple of weeks.

Viking are doing a little better as they have more ships and seem able to do a swap to get past the Rhine Gorge for at least some cruisers.

Things don't look like they are getting any better soon...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Mark_T

[G.M.T.]

1 hour ago, austinetc said:

Thanks to the marvels of translation apps, I could read this.  Sort of wished I hadn't.  The soil is dry nearly 2 matters down?  That's very bad.  

Almost like me. I'm dry and nearly 2 meters up.🍻

[Fourmiler]

Notamermaid, Sorry if this has already been asked, but what are the optimum water levels for Maxau, Kaub and Koblenz.

[feelincruisey]

Mark_T, the situation with the APT (and other) ships sounds pretty bad. I wonder how APT are dealing with that, as it would be impossible to do a ship swap - I guess the unlucky travellers have been swapped to buses and hotels to complete their itineraries. I was lucky enough to do a cruise on the AmaVenita (Amsterdam to Budapest) in March, the first of the season, and although it was snow melt time (and rather cold for most of the way!), we were able to traverse the whole route without hitches. I have friends who did Budapest to Amsterdam in July. They started on the AmaReina and had to do a swap onto the AmaVerde around Passau, which they said was absolutely seamless, involving just a short bus ride after the morning's excursion and finding their bags waiting for them in "their" room on the sister ship. It was great for me being able to check the river conditions with Notamermaid prior to departure. Thanks Notamermaid!

[Nodakboiler]

We just received another update about our European Sojourn Viking Cruise from Bucharest. We now will probably bus from Belgrade to Croatia and and will spend at least one night in a hotel in Budapest. We then swap ships after Passau. It should be an adventure. Viking has already offered us a 25% voucher on a future Viking Ocean and/or River Cruise.

[Marjan1]

1 hour ago, feelincruisey said:

Mark_T, the situation with the APT (and other) ships sounds pretty bad. I wonder how APT are dealing with that, as it would be impossible to do a ship swap - I guess the unlucky travellers have been swapped to buses and hotels to complete their itineraries. I was lucky enough to do a cruise on the AmaVenita (Amsterdam to Budapest) in March, the first of the season, and although it was snow melt time (and rather cold for most of the way!), we were able to traverse the whole route without hitches. I have friends who did Budapest to Amsterdam in July. They started on the AmaReina and had to do a swap onto the AmaVerde around Passau, which they said was absolutely seamless, involving just a short bus ride after the morning's excursion and finding their bags waiting for them in "their" room on the sister ship. It was great for me being able to check the river conditions with Notamermaid prior to departure. Thanks Notamermaid!

 

We had a similar situation with Travelmarvel in early September.   We departed Budapest and made it to Passau.  Low water stopped us cruising further, not a surprise as we were warned early in the cruise that this was a probability barring heavy rain.   

Fortunately we were able to do a ship swap with our identical sister ship at Nuremburg.  It was handled extremely well.  A few hours in a bus to Nuremburg (even given free access to the toilets at the rest stop), then we were each given €25 to pay for lunch and incidentals.  

We then had our scheduled tours of Nuremburg before heading to our “new” ship.  No problems, we were all told to simply go to “our” cabin where our bags and new keys were waiting for us.  

Then we were lucky enough to scrape through the Rhine Gorge on a day when other lines could not due to low water levels   

Well done to Travelmarvel.  

[austinetc]

Can anyone who has stayed in a hotel or eaten at a restaurant on Viking's dime answer me this?  Does the establishment understand food sensitivities?  A friend going along has a very severe food disorder.  Shipboard galleys are usually able to accommodate her.  I'm worried that alternative eateries cannot.  Can someone enlighten me? 

[notamermaid]

9 hours ago, Fourmiler said:

Notamermaid, Sorry if this has already been asked, but what are the optimum water levels for Maxau, Kaub and Koblenz.

Oh, that is a tricky question. Optimum for sailing is having at least 50cm of water under the keel, speaking for river cruise ships. With full water tanks and being full of passengers. For the three stations the figures differ and require me doing a bit of maths... Will be back later with pen and paper. SMILE.

notamermaid

 

[Mark_T]

I just spoke to APT about the current situation and they confirmed that with the cruises currently stuck north of the Rhine Gorge they have been offering guests a number of options given the rather large gap between Düsseldorf where the ships traveling south are currently moored, and Passau, which is about as far as the ships coming the other way are managing to reach.

The options have included alternative excursions from Düsseldorf, continuing across the gap with hotel stays or terminating the cruise altogether.

It is obviously a shame that this is happening, but it is good to hear that people are getting choices on how to proceed.

They did mention that one 7 night cruise has been cancelled as the impact on it was simply too great.

I did initially get the standard 'there has been some rain we expect things to improve' message from the front line staff, but it only took a little polite contradiction to get through to a supervisor who was very well briefed on the current situation and the arrangements being made.

 

 

[notamermaid]

6 hours ago, austinetc said:

Can anyone who has stayed in a hotel or eaten at a restaurant on Viking's dime answer me this?  Does the establishment understand food sensitivities?  A friend going along has a very severe food disorder.  Shipboard galleys are usually able to accommodate her.  I'm worried that alternative eateries cannot.  Can someone enlighten me? 

 

On a general note: hotels and restaurants are o.k. these days with knowing about food allergies and recently established laws in the EU have made labelling more widespread but the language barrier could be an issue so I would make sure I knew the necessary terms in the language I will be encountering. One would mostly be fine, but just in case.

For your more specific case as regards the Viking alternative hotels I would post the question in a separate thread to attract more answers from Viking cruisers.

notamermaid

 

[G.M.T.]

6 hours ago, austinetc said:

Can anyone who has stayed in a hotel or eaten at a restaurant on Viking's dime answer me this?  Does the establishment understand food sensitivities?  A friend going along has a very severe food disorder.  Shipboard galleys are usually able to accommodate her.  I'm worried that alternative eateries cannot.  Can someone enlighten me? 

Along the Rhine, Moselle, Main from Basle to Amsterdam there should be no problem, as some local natives can also have problems with food.

On the German and Austrian Danube it will be the same as the Rhine. But further east from Austria things could get a bit difficult.

Some suggestions:

a. The food disorder / proble foods, have translated and stored on your mobile phone in English and foreign language, to show in the restaurant.

b. Take snacks that can be eaten, just in case a restaurant cannot guarantee the contents of a meal.

 

[notamermaid]

Mark_T,

37 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

I did initially get the standard 'there has been some rain we expect things to improve' message from the front line staff,

 

roar, big laugh, etc. But to be fair, I would not expect a more detailed answer from the front line staff. What makes me unhappy is that some people might rely on things getting better for their river cruise in - let's say - four days time after having got such a message. Imagine their surprise to get an e-mail saying their cruise is cancelled/amended. Not good.

I know there has been some rain on the Rhine, I saw it Monday evening, it's been and gone, not to return for some days... Things improving? My foot!

Will be back with water levels and some maths after lunch.

notamermaid

 

[pully8]

Amazing warm weather in Germany  but it must be difficult for all with low water and minimal rain. Hopefully the weather will be more seasonal soon.

We were reading about the tragic bus crash on Thursday near Heidelberg some reports we saying they were on their way to docking in Speyer? Name of the operator was not given.

 

[notamermaid]

First: the brutal truth. River levels.

Maxau 325cm, Kaub 39cm, Koblenz 32 cm.

To compare: on 9th October the last levels I reported before the board shut down were Maxau 357cm, Kaub 64cm, Koblenz 58cm.

Experts expect the levels to fall further until Friday.

Another ferry, this time near Düsseldorf, has given up operating (for a while). Emmerich, the last gauge in Germany before the Netherlands, has beaten its new low water record by a few centimetres now. Despite this, the navigation channel is still over 2m deep there. Still, that is not much if your river cruise ship has a draft of 1.80m.

What is an optimum level for cruising? I define as optimum to be out of the low water zone and sail without much worry. For river cruise ships let us say 50cm of water under the keel when full. Ships are recommended to sail with 30cm water but it can vary, it is up to the captain to know what is doable. Let us assume the ship has a draft when full of 1.90m (there has been mention of 2m on various sites as being around the maximum, I think 1.90m will cover almost all river cruise ships). For reaching an "optimum range" the levels would have to be then

at Maxau 399cm and over, at Kaub 128cm and over, at Koblenz 108cm and over.

Here is the big BUT: Ships can sail with less than the optimum easily, as we have seen this year (and in previous ones). Clever navigation including reducing the load by emptying tanks of water and fuel can help quite a bit. I decided to alert cruisers to water levels being so low that they could disrupt an itinerary when the level at Kaub falls below 1 meter. Ships, especially Viking, have done better this year and 90cm is probably a better marker for real disruptions.

Smaller and therefore lighter ships have an advantage over the big ones of course. But how much difference does a lower deadweight of a few tonnes actually make? As I do not know this I am currently following some smaller ships of 110m or less to see if they can handle the Rhine gorge. Those are the Excellence Pearl, the Casanova, the Johann Strauss, the Modigliani and the Amadeus Classic.

Oh, and the KD has stopped running its regular schedule Cologne to Mainz due to the low water. I have mentioned before that some docks are inaccessible now. Here is an article in German, but I think the photo says quickly what the text needs many words for: https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/koblenz/Niedrigwasser-des-Rheins-macht-Probleme-Schiffs-Anlegestellen-im-Mittelrheintal-kaum-noch-anfahrbar,folgen-niedrigwasser-100.html

notamermaid

 

[Mark_T]

Thanks again for the update.

While this is frustrating for those of us on vacation, I do try to remember these low levels of rainfall and hence low river levels are much more catastrophic for those dependent on the river for their work and for those impacted by the slowing and even halting of heavy freight along the rivers.

[notamermaid]

Of the ships I am tracking marinetraffic has picked up the signal of the MS Casanova again. She is through and on her way to Koblenz! The Casanova is 103m long and sails for the German company Nicko Cruises.

Over on the cruisecritic.co.uk this article has been posted: https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=8927

notamermaid

 

[Mark_T]

11 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Of the ships I am tracking marinetraffic has picked up the signal of the MS Casanova again. She is through and on her way to Koblenz! The Casanova is 103m long and sails for the German company Nicko Cruises.

Over on the cruisecritic.co.uk this article has been posted: https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=8927

notamermaid

 

Some traffic is definitely making it through OK, but only the ones with a shallower draft which would support the results of the tracking you are doing as well.

I loved the Cruise Critic article, feels weird to have one of my posts used as 'news' 🙂

 

[jtothemak]

I am looking at a trip on the Rhine in March.  Is it reasonable to expect the Rhine to recover by then pending a typical winter?  

[Llansa Man]

Water levels in both the Rhine and Danube should be fine by March - winter rains and snow melt run-off will solve any issues of low water levels.

[azbirdmom]

The latest water levels make me sad, notamermaid.  Your reports for October 8th were right on as that is the day that we successfully (luckily) sailed through the Rhine River Gorge.  Here's a picture of the water gauge in Kaub which registers exactly what you reported.  My thoughts go out to those whose trips are being upended, and more importantly to those living in the area whose livelihoods have been damaged by low water.  Still hoping for rain for the Rhine and other rivers.

[notamermaid]

A tanker got stuck yesterday near Germersheim, too little water under the keel. No surprise as such, but it turned out the captain did indeed leave a bit too little room. If was freed after a few hours and shipping was not interrupted.

Another ferry has stopped operating, one quite a bit downstream from Düsseldorf.

Worms got itself a new low water record yesterday. Cologne could do on Friday: https://www.ksta.de/koeln/nur-80-zentimeter-koelner-rheinpegel-steuert-auf-rekordtief-zu-31451966 

with a photo of Deutz "beach" on the other river bank...

At 9.30pm tonight local time Kaub got itself a new low water record of 34cm.

 

azbirdmom,

Thank you for the photo and your kind words. The current situation is unbelievable, your photo makes it hit home even harder. At the right side of the photo by the way, just visible, are the high water mark arrows, the lower one representing 4.60m, the higher one, 6.40m (at which height the river section is closed). What a difference.

 

I shall try and recover over some snooker on telly and a hot chocolate. And hopefully forget that tomorrow it is not going to look any better on the river when I get up.

notamermaid

 

[G.M.T.]

39 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

I shall try and recover over some snooker on telly and a hot chocolate. And hopefully forget that tomorrow it is not going to look any better on the river when I get up.

notamermaid

 

Did you see The Rocket's 147?

[notamermaid]

11 hours ago, G.M.T. said:

Did you see The Rocket's 147?

No, I missed it. I need one of those Asterix speech bubble full of symbols of annoyance and regret to insert at this point. Would have loved to have seen it. It is incredible how good Ronnie O'Sullivan is after all these years. I saw him at a show tournament a few years ago. It was soo great.

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

This morning the gauge at Maxau fell to 314cm, the lowest it has been this century I believe. It is pretty grim as it could block those river cruise ships coming from the Main and sailing to Basel. They do not go through the Rhine gorge of course but will nevertheless be affected by the low levels that are also reaching from Mainz and Mannheim almost to the last lock at Iffezheim.

The levels as of 10.30am: Maxau 314cm, Kaub 33cm, Koblenz 26cm. 😭

I translate this into navigation channel depth (as figures on paper, of course): Maxau 155cm, Kaub 145cm, Koblenz 158cm.

I reported last Saturday that a ferry near Mannheim had to stop operating on that day. Here is the ferry's website showing the photos of what it looks like at their dock in Altrip: https://www.rheinfaehre-altrip.com/

This is a video of the ferry's last sailing for those interested: https://www.rnf.de/video-mannheim-altrip-rheinfaehre-wegen-niedrigwasser-des-rheins-seit-samstag-morgen-bis-auf-weiteres-ausser-betrieb-188371/

Commuters now need to do a massive detour through Ludwigshafen city centre to take the bridge. No fun.

notamermaid

 

 

[gracebest]

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 9:22 PM, austinetc said:

Can anyone who has stayed in a hotel or eaten at a restaurant on Viking's dime answer me this?  Does the establishment understand food sensitivities?  A friend going along has a very severe food disorder.  Shipboard galleys are usually able to accommodate her.  I'm worried that alternative eateries cannot.  Can someone enlighten me? 

We just returned yesterday from Paris to the Swiss Alps.  We made it from Koblenz to Speyer, but then were stuck.  We bussed from Speyer to Strasbourg for tours, lunch provided by Viking and then to back to the boat in Speyer for dinner and overnight.  The next day we bussed to Basel, had lunch in restaurant provided by Viking and on to Zurich.  When they announced the changes, they mentioned that anyone with special dietary needs would be accommodated.   They would simply give you a card to put at your place at the table, and a special meal would be provided.  In Strasbourg, we had a typical German lunch-- sausages, ham, potatoes, sauerkraut, etc.   The lunch in  Basel was lovely,  at a large convention-type hotel.  They had a wonderful buffet that had just about everything imaginable- salads, fish, chicken, vegetables, fruit, etc.  My only complaint about the lunch was that it was too long and severely cut short the walking tour in Zurich.  Even the local Zurich guides were frustrated that they didn't have enough time to really show us anything, but we had a reserved time for the boat tour and couldn't deviate.   

The low water levels really impacted our time in Zurich because we booked the Highlights of the Swiss Alps tour (which was amazing because the weather couldn't have been better!); but because of all the extra travel time we were left with no time on our own in Zurich.  We were disappointed but also thankful that the weather was perfect the entire time we were there.  75-80 degrees the entire trip.  We are hoping that they will get the much-needed rain.  Our trip was only impacted the last few days,  and I really didn't care for the long bus rides.  Our program director led us to believe the bus time would be shorter than what it actually was- It took us about 2 hours each way from Speyer to Strasbourg, which we were told would only be about 1 hour and 20 minutes.  We debated just staying on the boat and exploring Speyer some more instead of the bus ride to Strasbourg, but in the end went.  It was a beautiful town, but we may have enjoyed a more relaxing day not going.