Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[Laura Macky]

We were on a tauck ship and couldn’t get past somewhere near Koln.  We did a ship swap to Rüdesheim, had to leave because of low water and ended up in Nierstein where the boat couldn’t go any further.   So sad what’s going on on the rivers.  

[notamermaid]

4 hours ago, Cobbie48 said:

We are staying in Mainz on our own for a few days. Yesterday srtolling aLong the Rhine bank we saw a Tauck ship docked near two Viking ships which were rafted.  This morning the Tauck ship was gone and two Vikings rafted. Did not note name of any ships.

 

On another note, the KD Rhine ships are not sailing due to the low water. We found out at information shop that the Bingen-Rudesheimer Line is sailing. Tomorrow we will take the round trip Lorelei cruise.  For the two days we have been here weather has been beautiful.  

 

Hope everyone one who is cruising are enjoying themselves.

 

 

Hello Cobbie48,

since we spoke KD has announced that they are "ending the season early" due to the low water levels. I am glad to read that you are able to sail still with the Bingen-Rüdesheimer line tomorrow. They all end the season on Sunday. The weather is lovely, have a great trip tomorrow.

 

notamermaid

 

[austinetc]

10 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Hello Cobbie48,

since we spoke KD has announced that they are "ending the season early" due to the low water levels. I am glad to read that you are able to sail still with the Bingen-Rüdesheimer line tomorrow. They all end the season on Sunday. The weather is lovely, have a great trip tomorrow.

 

notamermaid

 

notamermaid, what do you mean "they all end the season Sunday"?  I'm hoping you don't mean that all local riverboats ceased sailing through the Gorge.  I'm counting on Viking being able to find one for us in a few weeks during our A-B cruise.

[notamermaid]

Oh, no, not to worry! I mean the Summer season with the regular sailings stop. Theoretically that actually means there will be more boats available for private charter by the cruise companies. But I do not know if all ships will be kept available for charter or if some will be in winter sleep mode. The paddle wheeler is unable to sail but the other ships can, yet docking is the critical issue. Winter offers with KD You can look up on their website www.k-d.com

 

notamermaid

 

[RiverCruiseKim]

We are currently on our Uniworld cruise which departed Basel on 10/14 on S.S. Antoinette. We only sailed for 2 days then sat in port in Strasbourg for 2 more days. Ship could not go any further due to low water levels so on Thursday we were taken off the ship for the remaining 4 days to finish the trip with bussing and hotels. I know the water levels are not in anyone’s control but I believe Uniworld has handled this very poorly. The amount of time spent on buses has been ridiculous. Not to mention when we found out our time on the ship would be coming to an end we inquired through our cruise director about cancelling the rest of our cruise to try and cut our losses. It took the head office 2 days to respond and they responded if we did that we would receive no compensation. Ridiculous that we are given no choice. So we spent a ton of money on our “river cruise” that lasted all of 2 days. 

[Laura Macky]

wow no compensation???   Tauck gives a refund for the portion you don’t use so when they announced we couldn’t sail further the first time before the ship swap they informed us we would be compensated.  We continued at that point but left before it changed into a bus tour and will be compensated for what we didn’t use at that point.  One reason we like Tauck is their customer service.  They really care about their passengers.  I’m sorry you had such a horrible experience.  😞

[RiverCruiseKim]

We looked into Tauck because of their stellar reputation but unfortunately they were all booked up for our dates over a year out. Probably because they sound pretty great. Uniworld has been a complete disappointment in this situation. I didn’t think we were asking for anything unreasonable and now hearing what Tauck has offered it definitely wasn’t unreasonable. Uniworld has offered $1,000 off per passenger for a future cruise in 2018 or 2019 but nothing above that for cancelling the remainder of the cruise. The credit towards a future cruise does nothing for us as we don’t have the time off or money to do this again that soon. This was a special trip for our anniversary making it all the more frustrating. 

[Llansa Man]

10 minutes ago, RiverCruiseKim said:

We looked into Tauck because of their stellar reputation but unfortunately they were all booked up for our dates over a year out. Probably because they sound pretty great. Uniworld has been a complete disappointment in this situation. I didn’t think we were asking for anything unreasonable and now hearing what Tauck has offered it definitely wasn’t unreasonable. Uniworld has offered $1,000 off per passenger for a future cruise in 2018 or 2019 but nothing above that for cancelling the remainder of the cruise. The credit towards a future cruise does nothing for us as we don’t have the time off or money to do this again that soon. This was a special trip for our anniversary making it all the more frustrating. 

 

[Llansa Man]

Unfortunately it is time to get a Lawyer involved - might even warrant a 'Class Action' ! Uniworld is vulnerable on this sort of stuff, in spite of the disclosures in your Cruise Purchase - I would push for a pro-rata refund first then if they blow you off, go for the jugular!

Lansa Man

[notamermaid]

It is has been another warm day here on the Rhine, without rain (what else?) and new low water records (no surprise any more). To be precise Cologne got its new record at 8.30pm last night, sort of half a day earlier than expected. Upstream the river has gained a few centimetres during the day which one can regard as only temporary if we believe the experts.

 

The levels tonight: Maxau 317cm, Kaub 34cm, Koblenz 32cm. Rain is expected for Tuesday and Wednesday but it does not sound as if we have reason to shout hooray.

 

This is what the Rhine looks like at Emmerich and Duisburg (they are North of Cologne): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVet8bJa7No

 

Today WWII ammunition has been found in Mainz in the winter harbour. It will be disposed of during the next few days.

 

A shortage of petrol at some filling stations in North-Rhine Westphalia could happen soon.

 

But holidays can still be enjoyable on the Rhine you just need to make the best of it. As shown by these passengers on a Viking river cruise ship. Yes, they interviewed passengers on the Viking Hild on television!

 

Video "Rhine tourists have to stay on land" in German language

https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/APP_NiedrigwasserMOMA,av-o1063372-100.html

 

notamermaid

 

[Laura Macky]

I think river cruises are overly optimistic with carrying on with their cruises.  The water levels in the Rhine are awful.  We just got back yesterday and our trip was scheduled through the 23rd.  We did a ship swap even during the short time we were there and they did the best they could with side trips but it wasn’t the same.  

 

If you think you will be cruising in the next few weeks I would probably do a LOT of research.  Water level websites are not updated often enough and the cruise lines will be overly optimistic.  I believe they are this way to reduce their losses. 

 

Get trip insurance!!!

[austinetc]

6 minutes ago, Laura Macky said:

I think river cruises are overly optimistic with carrying on with their cruises.  The water levels in the Rhine are awful.  We just got back yesterday and our trip was scheduled through the 23rd.  We did a ship swap even during the short time we were there and they did the best they could with side trips but it wasn’t the same.  

 

If you think you will be cruising in the next few weeks I would probably do a LOT of research.  Water level websites are not updated often enough and the cruise lines will be overly optimistic.  I believe they are this way to reduce their losses. 

 

Get trip insurance!!!

Part of the problem is differing expectations.  There are plenty of people who just want to get away.  Or they've planned pre- and post- travel around the cruises.  Or they're happy to have a little less fulfilling cruise if they can get a goodly amount of credit for their next cruise.  (Or they have a fetish for buses?)  To assume that everyone would rather stay home than have a less than ideal trip is to assume that everyone likes the color red.  It doesn't work that way.  That said, corporate offices of all cruise lines have totally screwed up their reputations by either not providing news or providing overly hopeful news.  I suppose they have financial people who encourage a middle ground between getting their money and losing their reputation.

[Coral]

1 hour ago, Laura Macky said:

 

If you think you will be cruising in the next few weeks I would probably do a LOT of research.  Water level websites are not updated often enough and the cruise lines will be overly optimistic.  I believe they are this way to reduce their losses. 

 

I am incredibly stressed right now due to work. I am thrilled to be getting away next month, even if my cruise doesn't happen how it is planned. My trip is RT Vienna and if I spend the entire trip in Austria - I will not be disappointed. So if my cruise doesn't go as planned - I am sure I can find something to do around Vienna.

[Laura Macky]

Aww I’m sorry work is so stressful right now.  I’m sure you’ll have a wonderful time.  Vienna is amazing!  I would suggest seeing the Lipizzaner stallions!  You can see them for free when they are practicing but it’s much better if you can see the performance.   https://www.viennaconcerts.com/month/Other_Events_in_Vienna/Spanish_Riding_School

 

Enjoy the pasteries and the beautiful city!

Edited October 20, 2018 by Laura Macky

[pully8]

Those links and videos are confronting.

In Australia there is a long class action with scenic river cruises.

http://www.supremecourt.justice.nsw.gov.au/Pages/sco2_classaction/european_river_cruise.aspx Its a long read and looks as if another hearing next month.

Meanwhile those of us who book and pay in good faith are hoping for the best for our up coming holidays.

Also feel for the locals as those pictures and reports look grim indeed.

Getting accurate prompt information is always an issue in these circumstances and the treatment of passengers by operators. Watching with interest. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

In defense of the river cruise lines – all the them – this year's low water is unprecedented.  We had the opposite situation in 2013 -- record high-water marks that completely flooded out the quays and landing stages in several places.  Nobody could plan for this.  And nobody could expect that it would just keep getting worse all season long:  past experience suggested that it would 'break' at some point with a good soaking rain and get back to [well, not 'normal,' but ] acceptable for sailing. If they cancel cruises, they have to give full refunds but can't eliminate 100% of costs – and people are angry.  If they cancel and then the weather turns better, they look like fools.  So the tendency is to try to muddle through and hope for the best.

 

The good news this year is that some lines have clearly learned from prior experience.  Viking is doing really well this year with Swiss-watch-like ship swaps [except on the Elbe, which may have been a losing proposition from the get-go for them].  Crystal, with no prior experience, seems to have been caught flat-footed [maybe next time they too will do better?].  Each line had to play the hand it was dealt – but some definitely did better than others.  It would make a great off-season research project for someone to track all the threads and comments here to compare all the cruise lines' results this year.  

[austinetc]

Host JazzBeau: Excellent synopsis.  Agree on all points.  

[notamermaid]

I have returned from work to find that river levels on the Rhine have fallen again. The rise yesterday was daily fluctuations only and both Kaub and Koblenz have got new lowest water level records, i.e. beat yesterday's. Koblenz is now at 22cm! Which means that (on paper) the depth of the navigation channel is 154cm. Ok, I think that almost puts an end to sailing in the Rhine gorge even for the ships smaller than 110m. I wonder who still dares to sail it?

 

I have finally found some info on German companies and how they fare. But more on that later.

 

notamermaid

 

[austinetc]

16 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

I have finally found some info on German companies and how they fare. But more on that later.

 

notamermaid

 

I've been looking for data that compares average monthly rainfall with this year's actual monthly totals.  Goal is to show how many consecutive months of below average (way below average?) rainfall there has been this year.  I'm essentially trying to do the cruise lines' work for them to explain why their behavior has appeared so apathetic and optimistic.

[notamermaid]

I am able to answer my question more quickly than I thought. Two ships have definitely sailed through the Rhine gorge today. The Mona Lisa (CroisiEurope) and the Quo Vadis. They are 82m and 45m long, respectively. Sometimes small is practical.

 

austinetc,

 

I have seen the graphs on television. One a few days ago showed the rainfall at Wörth on the Rhine. The percentages were striking. Some months had only 60% of the average rainfall. I do not remember more details, apart from that one: 99% less than average in the first two weeks of October, i.e. it has hardly rained at all.

 

You could try accuweather and wetteronline.de The second site is in German only but this page of amount of rainfall can give you some idea how little it is: https://www.wetteronline.de/?gid=DL&iid=DL&metparaid=RRS&month=10&pcid=pc_rueckblick_data&pid=p_rueckblick_colormap&sid=ColorMap&year=2018

 

I have put in October 2018 for you. You can change the date to the right of the map.

 

Averages are often available on wikipedia.

 

Other weather sites might be more helpful with averages.

 

Or you can look here for Germany: https://www.wetterkontor.de/de/wetter/deutschland/rueckblick.asp?id=60

For Freiburg in Breisgau (a little East of the Rhine valley, i.e. the rain from there feeds the Rhine by means of small rivers) rainfall so far this year: 484.3, the whole of 2017: 840. To get even close to that second figure we would need many days of lots of rain. Doesn't look likely.

 

notamermaid

 

[Begete]

We are scheduled for Uniworld ‘s European Jewels, November 10, leaving from. Budapest to Amsterdam.

 

Despite writing to Uniworld, I have received zero information.

 

We cruise because I have a medical condition that makes me extremely allergic to all scented products. I can handle that on ships, as we did last year on Uniworld, but a long bus ride could, literally, kill me.

 

Has anyone heard or experienced anything recent from Uniworld?

[Tom47]

4 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I am able to answer my question more quickly than I thought. Two ships have definitely sailed through the Rhine gorge today. The Mona Lisa (CroisiEurope) and the Quo Vadis. They are 82m and 45m long, respectively. Sometimes small is practical.

 

austinetc,

 

I have seen the graphs on television. One a few days ago showed the rainfall at Wörth on the Rhine. The percentages were striking. Some months had only 60% of the average rainfall. I do not remember more details, apart from that one: 99% less than average in the first two weeks of October, i.e. it has hardly rained at all.

 

You could try accuweather and wetteronline.de The second site is in German only but this page of amount of rainfall can give you some idea how little it is: https://www.wetteronline.de/?gid=DL&iid=DL&metparaid=RRS&month=10&pcid=pc_rueckblick_data&pid=p_rueckblick_colormap&sid=ColorMap&year=2018

 

I have put in October 2018 for you. You can change the date to the right of the map.

 

Averages are often available on wikipedia.

 

Other weather sites might be more helpful with averages.

 

Or you can look here for Germany: https://www.wetterkontor.de/de/wetter/deutschland/rueckblick.asp?id=60

For Freiburg in Breisgau (a little East of the Rhine valley, i.e. the rain from there feeds the Rhine by means of small rivers) rainfall so far this year: 484.3, the whole of 2017: 840. To get even close to that second figure we would need many days of lots of rain. Doesn't look likely.

 

notamermaid

 

Do you have a similar link for Elbe river?  Thanks. Tom

[G.M.T.]

16 minutes ago, Tom47 said:

Do you have a similar link for Elbe river?  Thanks. Tom

There is one, just search for Elbe on this forum.

[notamermaid]

3 minutes ago, Tom47 said:

Do you have a similar link for Elbe river?  Thanks. Tom

 

I have actually only found this website wetterkontor today. I am playing around with it a bit. Here is a page on which I put Dresden in for you: https://www.wetterkontor.de/de/wetter/deutschland/rueckblick.asp?id=49&datum=19.10.2018&t=4

You can see for 2018 the precipitation "Niederschlag" of 310.9 l per square metre. Now change the date to 2017 and compare the figure. Around half of last year's (so far)! Official summer days in 2017 were 45, in 2018 77. Says it all really, too hot, to dry.

 

You can play this game on both web sites, just put in place names near or on the Elbe. On wetterkontor for example Sachsen is one of the Länder (Bundesland) you can put in on the left, on the right towns are then suggested.

 

The river levels on the Rhine now: Maxau 321cm, Kaub 29cm, Koblenz 22cm.

 

Emmerich on the Dutch border is on 13cm. Sounds as if the Rhine is drying out down there, but it is just how the figure has been calculated. The navigation channel is still deeper than upstream from Cologne. In the Rhine gorge traffic is reduced now, even some barges have had to stop sailing as the propellers get too close to the riverbed.

 

Till tomorrow.

 

notamermaid

 

[Fourmiler]

I wonder just how long it will take the river water levels to get back to normal.  Huge amounts of snow fall and lots of rain in the spring perhaps?  I am already getting nervous about our August Jewels of the Rhine, Amsterdam to Basel cruise next year.  Surely the problems this year can’t be the new normal.