Will overtourism affect river cruising?

[Grego]

The concerns are real. We have had the river cruise on our "bucket list" for a couple of years and will be doing our first this July and we know there will be crowds at every stop on the voyage.

 

There are a lot of potential similarities between the river and ocean cruises. Today's ocean voyages, especially in the Caribbean market, are getting so saturated with larger ships carrying more passengers then the port can support. Yet, with the ports relying more and more on tourism, they continue to build more docks to attract more ships and dredging them deeper to get the bigger ships in. (build the docks and they will come).

 

River cruising will probably move in that direction as well by expanding the number of places to dock and then allowing the boats to stack up. This will flood these small towns which have no space to begin with and make the experience very difficult. What is a positive note is that the boats can't get much bigger and be able to navigate the rivers, locks, and bridges. However, they can build more and more boats to carry the increased number of tourists which will make the navigation a problem.

 

Oh well, we will continue to book as many voyages we can while we can before it gets too messy, then I guess we'll do road trips.

[drcpa]

I’m reminded of the Yogi Berra quote, “Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”

[notamermaid]

drcpa,

 

Sadly this applies to me and Rüdesheim on the Rhine. But if somebody could assure me that there is a time when I can actually see the town and the Christmas market in relative comfort then I will go. There are worse places in th world, but it is not just crowds also atmosphere and Rüdesheim does not have it for me anymore. After the recent stories you would have to pay me to go to Amsterdam... In the National Gallery in London I skipped the van Gogh's as seemingly a quarter of Asia was in front of them - also the Monet's - and headed straight to "my" William Turner. Taking in the sight of the "Fighting Temeraire", almost all by myself. I feel I have not missed anything, I had a splendid two hours in that museum. What I am trying to say is that if one can resist the temptation of going where everyone goes there is much beauty to discover nearby.

 

Some companies do over alternatives to the standard places and I hope the customers appreciate it.

 

Grego,

 

you say: " What is a positive note is that the boats can't get much bigger and be able to navigate the rivers, locks, and bridges. However, they can build more and more boats to carry the increased number of tourists which will make the navigation a problem." I am also glad that there is a limit to size on the rivers. It will ensure we will never get 500 people coming off just one river cruise ship. You need to know though that some excursion boats on the Rhine are large enough to carry 500+ people. I do not think that navigation - unless it is for getting into a narrow parking lot, i.e. docking space - will become a problem. The traffic has much increased on many rivers but barges are in the majority and apart from a few narrow gorges there is plenty of space. Queueing at locks could present more of a problem.

 

There are still many underexplored lovely places along the rivers but customers need to understand that they are not all ten steps away from the embankment - coaches in Europe are for the most part very comfortable. Companies need to be willing to try out different itineraries - and they do. After all, if you as a passenger like a river so much you might come back a second time wanting to see different things.

 

 

Part of the problem I see in the move to 135m ships, it gives a more luxurious experience as regards amenities but it also limits the experience and the places you can visit to fewer rivers and excludes ports that are not equipped for the long ships. It can cost 100.000+ euros to get a dock up to 135m standard and safety.

 

And be aware: making big steps to having a problem with over-tourism in certain spots is the Mekong river. It is not a hidden gem anymore...

 

notamermaid

[English Voyager]

notamermaid,

 

About 20 years ago we were in Rothenburg ob der Taube and thought we had been transported to Tokyo there were so many Japanese tourists.

 

We then decided to have lunch in one of the oldest restaurants in the town to find that it had engaged a Japanese hostess to greet her fellow citizens.

 

Heaven knows what it is like there now.

[notamermaid]

English Voyager,

 

I saw a photo of Chinese tourists walking in Rothenburg ob der Tauber earlier today. Many Japanese will have seen Rothenburg by now but I am sure they are still coming - well, the next generation - and added to that are now many Chinese...

 

Rothenburg is a case in point - river cruise companies should offer Dinkelsbühl instead, close by and not so well known. You will sit on the coach a bit longer each way but you can say back at home that you have been to a "hidden gem"...

 

Thank you for posting the link a few days ago, from the same website is another page that I quite like: https://www.responsibletravel.com/copy/overtourism-tips-for-travellers Sadly, one of the things I cannot do is travel out of peak season; teachers, families and some factory workers are very much bound to the hottest days of the year as we all know. In the UK some parents are so appalled by the fact that travel companies and hotels make summer travel so much more expensive that they - against the rules - take their holiday out of season and the children out of school, thereby also avoiding some of the crowds of course.

 

I was fortunate enough to be able to travel off-season to Barcelona. A long time ago. I loved it. I do not think I would want to go there in Summer, especially with the cheap "let us just fly for Barcelona for three days over the long weekend" flights offered that have been around for some time now, crowding places :eek:. See website. Talking of Barcelona: Gerona (Girona) further inland, not far away, is an interesting town as well.

 

notamermaid

[xpcdoojk]

I think being over-touristed is a great problem to have. Think of the economic impact that it has for the positive for the residents. That said, in general, I travel off season mostly to places I know are crowded. I avoid places and times when I know they are going to be a mob scene. This applies to where I live. Every large town has events or times, to avoid.

 

JC

[xmaser]

xpcdoojk -

 

You might want to read this article about Amsterdam:

 

http://www.dw.com/en/overtourism-swa...dam/a-41746155

 

It may be that the issue is more than the experience of the tourist.

[RDC1]

I think being over-touristed is a great problem to have. Think of the economic impact that it has for the positive for the residents. That said, in general, I travel off season mostly to places I know are crowded. I avoid places and times when I know they are going to be a mob scene. This applies to where I live. Every large town has events or times, to avoid.

 

JC

 

I would disagree. Many of the towns and cities that are popular tourist destinations are starting to have severe housing problems due to the amount of housing (apartments, condos, even some homes) being converted to vacation rentals. In many towns the "residents" are getting priced out of the housing market because of the money to be made by the vacation rentals.

[xpcdoojk]

I would disagree. Many of the towns and cities that are popular tourist destinations are starting to have severe housing problems due to the amount of housing (apartments, condos, even some homes) being converted to vacation rentals. In many towns the "residents" are getting priced out of the housing market because of the money to be made by the vacation rentals.

 

So, imagine tomorrow, and for the next 6 months no one showed up in these over touristed towns. They would rapidly become ghettos.

 

There is only one constant and that is change. Choosing to pretend change doesn’t happen is something close to insanity.

 

JC

[xmaser]

Wise people know that change can be managed.

[RDC1]

So, imagine tomorrow, and for the next 6 months no one showed up in these over touristed towns. They would rapidly become ghettos.

 

There is only one constant and that is change. Choosing to pretend change doesn’t happen is something close to insanity.

 

JC

 

There is a whole range between no one showing up and massive over tourism. Your point was the more tourism the more money the locals make. The advent of internet based vacation rentals have resulted in fairly massive problems in high tourist areas. An impact that has the locals fleeing the area because of the impacts or being forced out of the housing market. As such clearly not benefiting. Many of these areas have other drivers of the economy in addition to tourism and would not, as you say become a ghetto with even a dramatic drop in tourism. You might have some negative impact, but some benefits on quality of life as well.

 

Otherwise why do you think you have an increasing number of prime tourist areas moving to limit the number of tourists and moving increasingly to reign in vacation rentals.

[xpcdoojk]

There is a whole range between no one showing up and massive over tourism. Your point was the more tourism the more money the locals make. The advent of internet based vacation rentals have resulted in fairly massive problems in high tourist areas. An impact that has the locals fleeing the area because of the impacts or being forced out of the housing market. As such clearly not benefiting. Many of these areas have other drivers of the economy in addition to tourism and would not, as you say become a ghetto with even a dramatic drop in tourism. You might have some negative impact, but some benefits on quality of life as well.

 

Otherwise why do you think you have an increasing number of prime tourist areas moving to limit the number of tourists and moving increasingly to reign in vacation rentals.

 

Mostly because those with money who live in these desireable cities want they desireable city to themselves and they fund politicos who will make this happen, versus the people who need to make money in order to become rich, would like more tourism.

 

Just saying that those who want to shut things down are doing it to exclude others from living like they do.

 

I believe in capitalism, and unfortunately it can be ugly.... of course its opposite socialism destroys without questions of who owns or who deserves...

 

Ugh...

 

JC

[G.M.T.]

notamermaid,

 

About 20 years ago we were in Rothenburg ob der Taube and thought we had been transported to Tokyo there were so many Japanese tourists.

 

We then decided to have lunch in one of the oldest restaurants in the town to find that it had engaged a Japanese hostess to greet her fellow citizens.

 

Heaven knows what it is like there now.

Japanese have been replaced by triple the number of Chinese.

[English Voyager]

Japanese have been replaced by triple the number of Chinese.

 

I am glad I did most of my European travels when I did.

[CPT Trips]

Is the "Ugly American" becoming more attractive (or less ugly) thanks to more Asian tourists?

[notamermaid]

Thank you, G.M.T..

 

English Voyager, you could still go the "second-best" places, i.e. Dinkelsbühl instead of Rothenburg, Neuf-Brisach instead of Breisach, etc. And there are some fantastic other places, Poland with Stettin and Krakau for example.

 

Perhaps I should send a letter to river cruises companies suggesting that they offer Dinkelsbühl instead of Rothenburg as the latter is "full-up"...

 

notamermaid

[pinotlover]

CPT Trips;

 

You will catapult significantly in ratings by never acquiring a selfie stick! :D

[jpalbny]

Dinkelsbühl is a cute town, I agree. We went there two years ago and it was very quiet. And very picturesque.

 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Forums mobile app

[English Voyager]

CPT Trips;

 

You will catapult significantly in ratings by never acquiring a selfie stick! :D

 

The last time I was at the Acropolis, the selfie stick users were wielding it like a Bengal Lancer.:D

[xmaser]

I assume because of the heavy demand for docking sites for excursions, many ships are visiting Rotterdam this year. This is certainly an itinerary shift. We were crowed in a dock area with 6 to 7 other 135m ships, all of which were offering excursions. This created a major traffic jam of busses on the quay. The port accommodations seemed nice, but inadequate.There was also a very large ocean cruise ship across the river that contributed to congestion in the excursion destinations.

Rotterdam seems to want to become an alternative to Amsterdam.

[notamermaid]

Interesting, xmaser. Rotterdam is becoming more popular I was getting the feeling. Your experience seems to confirm this. I am not sure if ironic is the right word here, but it is a fact that Rotterdam is the original gateway to Europe('s river Rhine) from Britain as Amsterdam has only been accessible for large ships since the canal was built in the 20th century.

 

notamermaid

[English Voyager]

Three years ago I was on a pre-Christmas cruise on the Queen Elizabeth that was diverted from docking at Amsterdam to Rotterdam.

 

On the quayside was a kiosk from the local tourist office, and I asked the lady if she could recommend things worth seeing in Rotterdam.

 

She said that rather than go into the city, if I crossed to the other side of the river I could take a waterbus to Dordrecht where it was the final day of it's annual three day Christmas Market.

 

It turned out to be a very leisurely, fun packed day.

[Cobbie48]

Interesting, xmaser. Rotterdam is becoming more popular I was getting the feeling. Your experience seems to confirm this. I am not sure if ironic is the right word here, but it is a fact that Rotterdam is the original gateway to Europe('s river Rhine) from Britain as Amsterdam has only been accessible for large ships since the canal was built in the 20th century.

 

notamermaid

 

on our Avalon Brussels to Amsterdam Cruise last fall we docked overnight in Rotterdam. Walked off and wandered around, including new food hall. On departure we got a Harbor tour. This was a great cruise, all in all. Went to charming places and no rafting. We were docked at the far side of the Amsterdam train station but they bussed us to the center.

[notamermaid]

Having just returned from "tourist-mode" to "busy-working-and-getting-my-suitcase-emptied-mode" I started reflecting on my holiday. As I always look at my travels with one professional eye (not two, after all, I am on holiday) I made notes, compared hospitality, cleanliness, attractiveness of places overall and the number of fellow tourists I encountered. As an independent traveller I again went to places in Britain that see anything between three and ten tourists (the overall number of people staying in that hamlet) and thousands per day.

 

 

As regards overtourism: I encountered no such thing. I seem to have chosen the right places to avoid it. What struck me though was the difference in the type of tourists in Canterbury (highly recommend a visit to the Cathedral and St. Augustine's Abbey) from one week to another. With the start of the Summer holidays in Europe the local population, especially children in school uniform, diminished and droves of teenage language school groups from the European mainland and Japan occupied souvenir shops and pavements to the point of my annoyance as an individual. Not a big deal in a town like Canterbury but the thought of other places not being able to cope with such herds came back into my head. Here is a timeline of how places have reacted to overcrowding with specific measures: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/timeline-action-against-overtourism/

 

 

notamermaid

[notamermaid]

I have mentioned Dubrovnik that has become a symbol of overtourism. Here is a video of what it is like there: https://www.dw.com/en/the-tourists-of-dubrovnik/av-45284582

 

 

G.M.T. provided a link in the thread "the ever increasing popularity of river cruising" to a German TV debate concerning overtourism. It of course mentioned Venice and Dubrovnik. But also Passau featured as a place that has undergone a change and that is unfortunately largely to do with the increase in river cruise ships. One of the people in the panel said that it will not stop there. He predicted that Bamberg will follow... Bamberg is one of the places that is also a UNESCO World Heritage Site. I wonder what would happen if Passau made it into the list. The title is both a blessing and a curse.

 

 

notamermaid