Single thread - New website issues and discussions

[bEwAbG]

And as I relayed early in the thread, this exact scenario played out here on Cruise Critic when Cruise Critic changed its website design. Same exact thing.

 

However, there were known, reported issues affecting users for a few weeks when that change was made, so it’s only the same exact thing in that users were having problems. I was hanging out on the support board offering tips & suggestions & reading messages from the developers & site admin who were acknowledging issues that had nothing to do with “change.” Yes, there was a contingent of people complaining about change for change sake. I was not one of them. I’m not one of them as it relates to HAL’s website, either, yet you’re dismissive of everyone’s experiences.

 

There's nothing "contrarian" about withstanding the typical browbeating we see in the Holland America forum directed by the traditionalists at those who don't see change as a bad thing all the time. The future of the cruise line depends on getting enough younger people to start cruising the cruise line, and that's not going to happen as long as the traditionalists are the only voice that gets heard.

 

I am in that desired “younger” demographic and am brand new to this cruise line. I am far from a “traditionalist” and have zero history with this website other than they started making changes to it shortly after I made a booking & now it’s been hit or miss as to whether or not some particular section of it is functioning. This started one month ago.

 

You do realize that I'm a customer with a current booking. I received no such email, which means it was sent to a limited set of recipients rather than to every customer. If I were receiving the kind of feedback that I'm seeing here, but my investigation shows no merit in that feedback, seeing the website operating as designed and no one able to demonstrate the problems they're describing in a way that is reproducible by anyone on my tech team, then I would put out whatever fluffy public statements I can think of to mollify people, without any real intent beyond those words. That's also underwriting the impression that I relayed earlier, that I wonder if a professional at the cruise line has assessed the complaints and found them without merit, likely a combination of problems on the user's side and general dissatisfaction with the changes to the cruise line, and has decided to handle the situation by going forward with the normal handling of refinement of the website after deployment while telling the people who complain that their complaints have been heard.

 

The email contents were posted earlier in the thread & it was part of a marketing message, not an individualized reply. It’s this type of hubris and dismissal of real errors reported by several users (examples related to site security certificates have been prevalent all day) that cause others to challenge your pronouncements that all is well.

 

Yet again I just cleared my cache and hit hollandamerica.com. It's the new website.

 

Ok. I can do the same and get directed to the old website in Firefox. I get the new one in Chrome & Edge. They all redirect to the old website when I want to manage my reservation via the secondary flow that launches. So your theory is that even though Holland America sent an email to customers that explicitly says you may see the old website between now and “early May” that they’re also wrong?

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Yes, they have my info correct also...two star**. Will probably be three star*** by the time I finish the Alaska cruise next June. Hopefully. Don't think I will make 3 star on my next cruise to Bermuda in 2 weeks......looking forward to it.

[sail7seas]

Yes, they have my info correct also...two star**. Will probably be three star*** by the time I finish the Alaska cruise next June. Hopefully. Don't think I will make 3 star on my next cruise to Bermuda in 2 weeks......looking forward to it.

 

 

Enjoy your Bermuda c ruise. I did it on Veendam last summer and on NCL the year before.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Enjoy your Bermuda c ruise. I did it on Veendam last summer and on NCL the year before.

 

Thank you Sails!!! Really anxious to go now...it is getting close....looking forward to it....and seeing Boston again for a few days and seeing a few friends there. :D

[sail7seas]

Linda, I hope you enjoy our fair city. If you have not been here for some length of tmie, you will see lots of new hotels, restaurants,seaport buildings etc.......... lots of 'new' and lovely has been added. :)

[sail7seas]

Linda, I hope you enjoy our fair city. If you have not been here for some length of tmie, you will see lots of new hotels, restaurants,seaport buildings etc.......... lots of 'new' and lovely has been added. :)

 

 

I t is always wonderful when we get to reunite with friends we've not scene for a while.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Okay -- I used Edge which has HAL's new site -- there HAL lists the total of cruise days as well as the number of days one actually sails.

On Chrome -- I still have the old HAL site. There HAL only lists the total cruise days -- no where is the actual sailing days.

Edge does no have our cruises in order where Chrome does.

Strange.

Both do have us as 5 Stars.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

Linda, I hope you enjoy our fair city. If you have not been here for some length of tmie, you will see lots of new hotels, restaurants,seaport buildings etc.......... lots of 'new' and lovely has been added. :)

 

Thank you Sails, I will let you all know how it went after I get back...looking forward to seeing Boston again. It has been a few years (at least 3-4).....less for me than DH. He has not been there since 2004. So he is really hankering for a good lobster at this point! Will be a good time I am sure.....thanks for your good wishes.:)

[Haboob]

And...

The web folks just alienated a bunch more customers, taking down the "1-day only $1 deposit" front page at 8pm Pacific.

[Boytjie]

It took me a while to find the Mariner link. I logged in and looked around but had no luck, so I went tab by tab. I finally found it under Already Booked. No, I don't have a current HAL booking so why would I go there to check my Mariner status?

 

Who designs their website?!

Edited April 28, 2018 by Boytjie

[Boytjie]

Ha! The Mariner page only has the general information! Where have you seen you actual status?

[ski ww]

I also finally found my stats, don't remember how I got there, blind luck after clicking on a whole bunch of tabs. I was trying to book a HAL shore excursion, which I never did find. I had to call HAL & did it over the phone. I send an email to HAL guest relations complaining about their poor web design, waiting to hear back.

Allan

[ski ww]

I just tried to book a HAL shore excursion and had no luck. I got as far as ports of call but then would not let me to to read a write up about the different excursions, price, or how to book on line. I finally did it over the phone after complaining to the lady there. After which I send an email to guest relations complaining about their new site, waiting to hear back. Never had a problem doing this on the old site.

Allan

[bUU]

However, there were known, reported issues affecting users for a few weeks when that change was made, so it’s only the same exact thing in that users were having problems. I was hanging out on the support board offering tips & suggestions & reading messages from the developers & site admin who were acknowledging issues that had nothing to do with “change.”

As was I. The problems were not what the users doggedly insisted they were.

 

Yes, there was a contingent of people complaining about change for change sake. I was not one of them. I’m not one of them as it relates to HAL’s website, either, yet you’re dismissive of everyone’s experiences.

Dismissive? You're back to being caustically defensive in response to dispassionate assessments I made based on my professional experience? Sorry, I'm not playing that game anymore. I haven't called anyone a liar. I haven't insulted anyone personally. I haven't questioned whether anyone else in this thread should be posting. If you want to talk about the issue, talk about the issue, but don't be whining that one of only two voices of dispassionate balance in the discussion is being "dismissive". Otherwise, I'll simply label every comment made by others as "browbeating" and we'll have nothing but meta-discussion.

 

I am in that desired “younger” demographic and am brand new to this cruise line. I am far from a “traditionalist” and have zero history with this website other than they started making changes to it shortly after I made a booking & now it’s been hit or miss as to whether or not some particular section of it is functioning.

Of course, to be taken seriously such claims need to include far more details than you've provided in this thread; environment, steps to reproduce, etc. I've tested the website thoroughly on Windows and Android browsers. I have over ten years of regular experience with this website and I found no significant problems that weren't there prior to the upgrade.

 

Let's not lose sight of that: You reported the dual credentials issue as a problem with the new website, even though it has been that way forever. Why would you do that? Perhaps were you driven to make assumptions based on the tide of unhappiness that the website changed to a design more attuned to a younger demographic?

 

And I'm not casting aspersions on you or anyone personally. I'm being objective, professional, dispassionate in my assessment of the trouble report, as I would were I to receive it at work. I am not at all being "dismissive".

 

The email contents were posted earlier in the thread & it was part of a marketing message, not an individualized reply.

Again, I am a current customer. I have a current reservation. I didn't receive any such email. Stop being "dismissive" of what I'm posting! /sarc :rolleyes: Maybe instead of piling on the browbeating, folks having problems should be wondering why am I able to book excursions, specialty dining, and dummy reservations. Why is my experience different? Is anyone having problems even a little curious why others are not? Or is it really just about being upset about the change? Edited April 28, 2018 by bUU

[catl331]

On Chrome -- I still have the old HAL site. There HAL only lists the total cruise days -- no where is the actual sailing days.

That's odd. On the old site I see a compact table with four columns: Cruise Day Credits, On Board Spending Credits, Suite Bonus Credits, and Total Credits. The first column is obviously actual sailing days.

 

Ha! The Mariner page only has the general information! Where have you seen you actual status?

It's not on the Mariner Society page, it's on the My Account page. There are three tabs there, the last of which is My Mariner Status. (BTW this tab was not there on the initial release of the new site.)

 

Like you, it never occurred to me that my status would be found under Already Booked!

Edited April 28, 2018 by catl331

[Boytjie]

It's not on the Mariner Society page, it's on the My Account page. There are three tabs there, the last of which is My Mariner Status. (BTW this tab was not there on the initial release of the new site.)

 

Like you, it never occurred to me that my status would be found under Already Booked!

 

Thanks. Found it now. Bad placement IMO.

[catl331]

Okay -- I used Edge which has HAL's new site --

Edge does no have our cruises in order where Chrome does.

Mine are in descending chronological order on both the old and new site. What order are yours in on the new site?

[sail7seas]

Okay -- I used Edge which has HAL's new site -- there HAL lists the total of cruise days as well as the number of days one actually sails.

 

On Chrome -- I still have the old HAL site. There HAL only lists the total cruise days -- no where is the actual sailing days.

Edge does no have our cruises in order where Chrome does.

 

 

Strange.

Both do have us as 5 Stars.

...

 

 

I used Firefox and it showed all my cruises, listed, cruise by cruise. :)

[whogo]

I just spent some time on the new site. Everything I tried worked. The complaints I have were probably on the old site, too.

 

Click to see a cruise itinerary and only the first two days are visible. You have to click to see the complete itinerary and then do a lot of scrolling, can't view it all at once.

 

I never found a link that I could open in a new tab. I am a tab browser, have three other tabs open as I write this.

 

The deals section is worthless. I would just like to see a list of bargain fares, instead of having to choose a cruise area and then scroll and scroll to see what is available. It would also be nice to change default prices shown to outside, balcony or suite. I assume that Holland America is deliberately trying to make it hard to compare cruises and find a bargain.

 

I won't be using the Holland America website to shop for cruises. There are too many good travel agent websites that give better information clearly and simply.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Mine are in descending chronological order on both the old and new site. What order are yours in on the new site?

 

 

Edge first shows a 2008 cruise, then a 2001 cruise, a 1998, a 1996 -- totally a mess -- but they are all there.

I'll just stay with Chrome.

[catl331]

I just spent some time on the new site. Everything I tried worked. The complaints I have were probably on the old site, too.

The site continues to evolve and improve as us involuntary Beta testers complain and things get fixed. A very poor roll-out strategy IMO.

[canadarocks]

I won't be using the Holland America website to shop for cruises. There are too many good travel agent websites that give better information clearly and simply.

 

I took it one step further. I cancelled our HAL cruise and booked with a different line, one that gives better information clearly and simply on its website. Hopefully Holland America will figure things out and we'll return.

[catl331]

I'll just stay with Chrome.

Enjoy it while lasts ... I'm now getting the new site on Chrome!

 

I'm beginning to think the differences are due to which proxy server we use. I know I'm not being served directly, because every once in a while I get an error message saying I've lost communication with a server in Atlanta.

[bUU]

Click to see a cruise itinerary and only the first two days are visible. You have to click to see the complete itinerary and then do a lot of scrolling, can't view it all at once. I never found a link that I could open in a new tab. I am a tab browser, have three other tabs open as I write this.

Yes, we're definitely seeing a switch from the antiquated mouse-oriented browsing experience to the modern touch-oriented browsing experience. There is a definitely a bias with regard to which users generally have knee-jerk hatred reactions to touch-oriented user experiences (older users) and which users generally are attracted by these touch-oriented user experiences (younger users). There are still some links that you can click (and open in another tab), of course; the design skill is deciding where to use the gesture-analogs such as swipe and where to use an old mouse click. With the additional skill-set and browser capability now generally available, a richer experience employing both approaches in their proper measure is offered (well, richer for those who aren't intent on hating it).

 

The deals section is worthless. I would just like to see a list of bargain fares, instead of having to choose a cruise area and then scroll and scroll to see what is available.

In other words, you want to purchase on price, and the cruise line wants you to value the specific experience. The latter clearly better supports the cruise line's business plan. They have a Deals section; check; and there are deals to be found, but that section of the website is intended to sell (specifically: "sell" rather than "help you buy") a low-cost experience to you rather than to let you buy based on lowest price.

 

It would also be nice to change default prices shown to outside, balcony or suite. I assume that Holland America is deliberately trying to make it hard to compare cruises and find a bargain.

Not "make it hard" but rather ensure you follow the happy path that their marketing experts have determined will foster the best return on investment. Your point about changing the default category is a great example of that: I surely would prefer to just see balcony prices; it would make my trip through the website faster. However, getting customers in and out of your website faster is rarely a good thing for the business. So standard human nature prevails: Get people interested in a cruise by showing them the lowest price for that cruise, and then lead them through a wizard where they choose upgrades and special touches that raise the price. We see the same thing on toyota.com, hilton.com, etc.

[Haboob]

Yes, we're definitely seeing a switch from the antiquated mouse-oriented browsing experience to the modern touch-oriented browsing experience. There is a definitely a bias with regard to which users generally have knee-jerk hatred reactions to touch-oriented user experiences (older users) and which users generally are attracted by these touch-oriented user experiences (younger users). There are still some links that you can click (and open in another tab), of course; the design skill is deciding where to use the gesture-analogs such as swipe and where to use an old mouse click. With the additional skill-set and browser capability now generally available, a richer experience employing both approaches in their proper measure is offered (well, richer for those who aren't intent on hating it).

 

 

It would be nice if those working on HAL's website did not have that mindset.

 

 

::gets out his cluebat::

 

A company who wishes to thrive needs to sell to the widest possible audience.

 

Touch and gestures work well in a small screen device. ::waves his s9::

Touch and gestures faceplant on a large screen device. ::tries to wave his 3184x2160 screen::

 

If I send an HTTP request from my s9, you can browser sniff for "Android"

If I send an HTTP request from my desktop, a media query will give you the "3184x2160"

 

There is no excuse for HAL not adjusting its presentation by the user's context.

 

For example, does HAL really expect me to tediously page through ports of

call one by one, when --at home-- I have screen real estate for a 30 day

cruise, and the other guys' sites will use it?