A few recorded facts.

[mercury7289]

The Following information was extracted from the numbeo web site;

 

Cost of living in India is 65% less then UK excluding rent

 

Rent is 80% lower then UK

 

Average earnings after tax 35215 Rupee = £384.00

 

Just thought that this gives some prospective to the long recently closed thread.

[NoFlyGuy]

If we remove the auto tip and pay our cabin steward, say £3 per day each and if they serve, say 17 cabins then that amounts to £102 per day or £3060 per month with basic salary and bonus on top. So over £4000 per month, admittedly calculated on a seven day week and long hours.

[Tom Baker]

Doctors earn less in India and the Philippines that P&O (and the US cruise lines) expect you to believe they pay their staff from the same countries.

 

People queue for miles to try and enlist at the companies that represent the cruise lines in these countries. It's like UK oil rig workers going to Norway to work on the rigs, they are paid in Krone and earn an equivalent to a years salary for a months work.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Host Sharon
Questioning moderation

[emam]

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=4816

[davecttr]

You commented earlier about press interest. If the discussion is allowed to 'flow' (albeit without unacceptable personal comments) I guess it would eventually run out of steam and remain confined to this forum. And in the grand scheme of things there aren't that many of us reading these threads. But the more this situation exists, I would think that it increases the likelihood of it being picked up more widely. Counterproductive I would think!

spot on, perhaps the info is already circulating the web and if so a fat chance of it being suppressed

 

ps - please DON'T tell me where I can find it

[mercury7289]

Further recorded facts:

 

Cost of living in the Philippines is 52% lower then in the UK excluding rent

 

Rent is 75% lower then that in the UK

 

Average wage after tax is 15,532 piso = £218.30 per month

 

Source of information Numbeo web site

[ONT-CA]

Rather than assess the value of a tip as it relates to the recipient's homeland and standard of living, we prefer to asses the value of our tips to us as it pertains to our standard of living. We therefore ask ourselves what does it mean to daily give away one cocktail and have that cocktail be divided among who knows how many people. The cost is miniscule. Brings new meaning to 'buying the house a round'... That out of the way we tip modestly for every beverage ordered in a bar. We tip for special favours and assistance. We estimate we tip about 6% of the cost of the cruise. That is so little to make the cruise more pleasant all way around. And if the situation is such that, should the line make tips mandatory, would we give up our cruise because of it? Not bloody likely.

[Tom Baker]

Rather than assess the value of a tip as it relates to the recipient's homeland and standard of living, we prefer to asses the value of our tips to us as it pertains to our standard of living. We therefore ask ourselves what does it mean to daily give away one cocktail and have that cocktail be divided among who knows how many people. The cost is miniscule. Brings new meaning to 'buying the house a round'... That out of the way we tip modestly for every beverage ordered in a bar. We tip for special favours and assistance. We estimate we tip about 6% of the cost of the cruise. That is so little to make the cruise more pleasant all way around. And if the situation is such that, should the line make tips mandatory, would we give up our cruise because of it? Not bloody likely.

 

We prefer that an employer gives a basic minimum wage to every worker for every hour they work, and we tip for any good service on top. Currently $13.84CAD per hour. Isn't that fairer than having to rely on handouts or the generosity of others?

[ONT-CA]

We prefer that an employer gives a basic minimum wage to every worker for every hour they work, and we tip for any good service on top. Currently $13.84CAD per hour. Isn't that fairer than having to rely on handouts or the generosity of others?

 

Perhaps you missed my point. What an employee earns per hour is none of my business. It is a matter between he/she and the employer. Tipping amounts are my business and begrudging the lot the value of one drink a day is not acceptable to us. That is why we base our tipping on our standard of living. Remember, tipping is an activity that brings more to the presenter than to the recipient or at least that is how it should be IMHO.

[NoFlyGuy]

Of course tipping is an entire personal preference.

 

But to me, the typical salaries crew can expect to earn in their homelands is relevant.

 

Otherwise surely we Brits should expect a salary equal to that earned by those who live and work in the most expensive countries around the world. Bermuda, Norway... I'm sure many of you can add to the list.

[Tom Baker]

Remember, tipping is an activity that brings more to the presenter than to the recipient or at least that is how it should be IMHO.

 

Could you clarify for me what you mean? It sounds to me tipping provides you with a sense of fulfillment, gratification, enjoyment. Is this what you are trying to convey?

[grapau27]

Could you clarify for me what you mean? It sounds to me tipping provides you with a sense of fulfillment, gratification, enjoyment. Is this what you are trying to convey?

I thought it was a strange comment to make too.

Surely a tip is given as an extra thank you for enhancing your cruise experience.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[NoFlyGuy]

Would agree grapau27. When I leave a tip it's not to make me feel better about myself.

[Eglesbrech]

Could you clarify for me what you mean? It sounds to me tipping provides you with a sense of fulfillment, gratification, enjoyment. Is this what you are trying to convey?

 

I suspect that this is a Christian reference: that it is better to give than to receive. That is how I would read it anyway, not as anything self serving, as you are implying.

 

Would be interesting to hear the posters thoughts though.

[Tom Baker]

I thought it was a strange comment to make too.

Surely a tip is given as an extra thank you for enhancing your cruise experience.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

 

I thought it was a troll trying to bait me!

 

Seems like this person gets his/her kicks when staff doff their forelocks in reverence.

I despise the notion that those who serve are inferior. People are people, everyone's equal in my eyes no matter their colour, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation or birthplace.

[Tom Baker]

I suspect that this is a Christian reference: that it is better to give than to receive. That is how I would read it anyway, not as anything self serving, as you are implying.

 

Would be interesting to hear the posters thoughts though.

 

If that's the case then I apologise. Obviously we are separated by a common language.

 

My point is that staff should not be reliant on generosity.

[grapau27]

I thought it was a troll trying to bait me!

 

Seems like this person gets his/her kicks when staff doff their forelocks in reverence.

I despise the notion that those who serve are inferior. People are people, everyone's equal in my eyes no matter their colour, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation or birthplace.

Totally agree but they look forward to the cash tips as most of us would and most of them definatly deserve them.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[Eglesbrech]

If that's the case then I apologise. Obviously we are separated by a common language.

 

My point is that staff should not be reliant on generosity.

 

No they should not be reliant on generosity. They should get a decent basic wage. Agree entirely.

[terrierjohn]

I thought it was a troll trying to bait me!

 

Seems like this person gets his/her kicks when staff doff their forelocks in reverence.

I despise the notion that those who serve are inferior. People are people, everyone's equal in my eyes no matter their colour, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation or birthplace.

A tip should be a small token of thanks to reward someone over and above their normal wage.

However on cruise ships it has become standard practise for some staff to be paid a pittance and that their tips should make up the majority of their wage.

But if the data in the original post is true on P&O tips now make up less than half of a stewards approximate £1200pm.

The big question for me then is why, if everyone paid the auto tip, the amount that P&O collect from the 18 cabins they service equates to £2650pm (14x.35x18x30). I would like to know what P&O are doing with the extra £2150 they are collecting for every steward and the extra they also collect from the waiters tips.

[grapau27]

No they should not be reliant on generosity. They should get a decent basic wage. Agree entirely.

Thats why myself and others have emailed P&O and spoken to them about getting tips included in the cruise price.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[Eglesbrech]

Thats why myself and others have emailed P&O and spoken to them about getting tips included in the cruise price.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

 

As I did also.

[Tom Baker]

A tip should be a small token of thanks to reward someone over and above their normal wage.

However on cruise ships it has become standard practise for some staff to be paid a pittance and that their tips should make up the majority of their wage.

But if the data in the original post is true on P&O tips now make up less than half of a stewards approximate £1200pm.

The big question for me then is why, if everyone paid the auto tip, the amount that P&O collect from the 18 cabins they service equates to £2650pm (14x.35x18x30). I would like to know what P&O are doing with the extra £2150 they are collecting for every steward and the extra they also collect from the waiters tips.

 

I've been excommunicated for this forum on two separate occasions for asking the very same questions and quoting similar figures. My figures added in extra for 4 berths (kids over 12) making the total nearer £3k

[ONT-CA]

I suspect that this is a Christian reference: that it is better to give than to receive. That is how I would read it anyway, not as anything self serving, as you are implying.

 

Would be interesting to hear the posters thoughts though.

 

The practice of thanking someone is not reserved for Christians alone. So how does one show appreciation for what is done for them. Verbally, yes, but the thought that the recipient needs or does not need the gratuity is immaterial. One could offer a gift of some sort but as we are dealing with travel and it's restrictions, currency is the easiest choice in showing appreciation beyond the common verbal thank you, be it sincere or otherwise. I have no quarrel with anyone who chooses not to tip. All I am saying is that tipping assures me that my expression of thank you is acknowledged and hopefully appreciated which in itself makes me feel content. I realize that the practice of tipping in the UK is not of that in Canada. But I have stood in a UK pub with a local who forwarned me that tipping is not the practice there, then got them in and advised the server to have one himself...

[ONT-CA]

I should have added that we leave the tip 'charge' on our account and further tip thereafter. Should the line make the designated tip mandatory nothing will change for us. We do not understand why anyone would have a problem with our approach.

[emam]

(Quote) The big question for me then is why, if everyone paid the auto tip, the amount that P&O collect from the 18 cabins they service equates to £2650pm (14x.35x18x30). I would like to know what P&O are doing with the extra £2150 they are collecting for every steward and the extra they also collect from the waiters tips.(Quote)

 

Probably those two new ships arriving in the next couple of years.