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LauraS

Royal Caribbean Fights Back!

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sounds like we were thinking along the same lines, as I didn't get to read your post before everything got pulled this morning. I had posted elsewhere on another thread (yep, that one went poof too) that my theory was he was going through the room, throwing Jennifer's belongings off the balcony because he was upset with her for going off with that casino guy. Since he was drunk, he could easily have hurt his hand, or his head, on one of the drawers or cabinets that the fellow from the next cabin heard being opened and closed, which would account for the small amount of blood found in the cabin on that towel and the kleenex. And since he was drunk, his balance wouldn't have been right on and he could have gone over the rail in the process of heaving her things off the ship, especially if he chose to stand on a chair to get a good angle to lob her things off.

I have a friend who is an emt and he says head wounds will bleed like crazy. So if he cracked his head in the fall, which seems pretty likely, that could account for the large amount of blood, mixed with the spray from the ship moving through the water, being seen on the canopy. He could have simply slid off since I am sure that canopy was pretty slick. Or he could have come to, realized he was in a seriously dangerous position, and tried to get up to climb up and fallen off then.

The more I read of the accounts from witnesses, the more I really think this was a very tragic accident fueled by too much partying. Very sad for everyone involved, but hardly the grand conspiracy some people would have us believe. JMHO

PS-I love playing gil grissom--umm, I guess katherine willows would be more appropriate. :D

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I'm guessing he is putting together what he heard that morning and what he saw when he looked at their balcony in the AM. I am guessing that the chair was moved next to the rail, facing backwards to the rail, and away from the other chair. He ain't dumb, and he is the only person who looked into their cabin the next AM from the balcony next door.

 

Oh, he also said that their balcony door was slightly opened. Could explain some of the other mysteries about the door being described as open or not.

 

Wish I could give you a link to that interview. Gretta just let the guy tell his story...how refreshing.

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was she missing clothes? Not sure a guy who is blitzed has 100% aim though...someone must have found clothes, do you know if they did, just for the fact of the speed of the ship travels and the breeze would have sent something awry, and possibly back onto a deck or somewhere else on board.

 

Maybe she punched him in the nose and he bled and tried to kill himself after a fight with her.

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Maybe she punched him in the nose, she ran out of the room after the argument, and she crashed in the hall. Maybe after she left the cabin he jumped.

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Anyone else wonder why the balcony door was closed when security dropped Jen off at 5:00 a.m., then open when the next door neighbor looked around the corner? Just another tidbit to think about.

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was she missing clothes? Not sure a guy who is blitzed has 100% aim though...someone must have found clothes, do you know if they did, just for the fact of the speed of the ship travels and the breeze would have sent something awry, and possibly back onto a deck or somewhere else on board.

 

Maybe she punched him in the nose and he bled and tried to kill himself after a fight with her.

She hasn't said anything about missing clothes one way or the other, but I'm not sure I would believe anything she said at this point anyway; her credibility is nil with me. And yes, stuff could blow back maybe onto another balcony which might be why he would stand on a chair to angle stuff away from the ship. Jennifer wakes up from her stupor, looks around and sees some of her stuff is gone, looks at the balcony, the blood on the canopy, puts 2 and 2 together, panics, and runs straight to the spa and pretends nothing has happened. I think that's plausible.

Of course, her punching him and storming out could be possible too, especially after her kicking him in the bar before. Shows a tendency towards violence. I haven't heard enough about what kind of person he was to say whether or not he would contemplate suicide.

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People get hurt deeply while under the influence and lose thier minds. It happens all the time.

 

I am thinking that she knows more than she is letting on. Take the runaway bride, she stuck with her story for a while. Maybe now that his family is so sure about what they think happened, and this is so out of control, she can't confess the truth.

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Not sure his family is all that thrilled with her right now. I know I read in a transcript of one of the shows they did, that dad Smith thinks she knows more than she is letting on. But I agree, she may feel this has gone too far to fess up now. Hopefully, the truth will come out in the end, and maybe bite her in the *$$.

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Not sure his family is all that thrilled with her right now. I know I read in a transcript of one of the shows they did, that dad Smith thinks she knows more than she is letting on. But I agree, she may feel this has gone too far to fess up now. Hopefully, the truth will come out in the end, and maybe bite her in the *$$.

 

Don't want to make this thread go poof but early this morning I posted that yesterdays taping of Oprah had JS and RCI CEO on and on video link was grooms family who apparently stated that they are not in contact with JS as they believe she either knows more or had something to do with it. Don't know when this particular show will air but it was titled something along the lines of "Newsmakers". A friend was at the taping which is how I heard this.

 

I don't think I have said anything I shouldn't have so keep your fingers crossed. And watch for the airing of this show.

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Don't want to make this thread go poof but early this morning I posted that yesterdays taping of Oprah had JS and RCI CEO on and on video link was grooms family who apparently stated that they are not in contact with JS as they believe she either knows more or had something to do with it. Don't know when this particular show will air but it was titled something along the lines of "Newsmakers". A friend was at the taping which is how I heard this.

 

I don't think I have said anything I shouldn't have so keep your fingers crossed. And watch for the airing of this show.

Maybe I read your post and confused it somehow with something else. I'm not sure at this point. I spent most of yesterday reading about 25 pages on the thread that is no longer there. :confused:

Anyway, there is another topic discussing the Oprah show. I believe it is scheduled for airing next Wednesday. Ready your recorders and fasten your seatbelts--we're in for a bumpy ride. :D

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I'm guessing he is putting together what he heard that morning and what he saw when he looked at their balcony in the AM. I am guessing that the chair was moved next to the rail, facing backwards to the rail, and away from the other chair. He ain't dumb, and he is the only person who looked into their cabin the next AM from the balcony next door.

 

Oh, he also said that their balcony door was slightly opened. Could explain some of the other mysteries about the door being described as open or not.

 

Wish I could give you a link to that interview. Gretta just let the guy tell his story...how refreshing.

 

Pirate, he said the chair was turned backwards against the rail. The door was open and the bed had been slept in. RCI employees state that when they put JHS in the room, they put her on top of the bed covers, they did not turn them back. Also, they state that the balcony door was closed. Somebody turned back the covers and opened the balcony door before 7:00 AM. JHS states that she got up. slipped on her shoes and left. This is why she did not see any of the blood that George's parents say was in the room and RCI is covering up. This is just not adding up.

 

I will say that after hearing the cop, it is easy to conclude that George fell over by accident. It is all of the other stuff that makes it hard to figure.

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If in time we find blood in the cabin or on the balcony, I may have to re-assess.

 

Yep, me too, but it would have to be a significant amount for me to go far from my thoughts...

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Guys, I have this show on the DVR (I know, I am hooked on following this case) and the cop did say he heard no female voices inside the cabin, maybe in the hall.

 

It may have been someone else that said it.....have to go find it...:)

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Royal Caribbean also tried to keep the Smith family informed of all available information. In all, our company called the family five times to provide them what little information was available. We stopped calling when Bree Smith, Mr. Smith's sister, told us that she was an attorney and did not want any more calls from the company.

 

Ok, I'm not a lawyer or anything, but does anyone know why a lawyer (Bree Smith, Mr. Smith's sister) would ask RC to stop calling them. Wouldn't a lawyer want as much information as possible. Plus, this is information about her brother. :confused:

 

Just wondering.......

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The sister-lawyer wanted to make sure Mrs. Smith didn't say anything to Royal Caribbean that could harm her later on.

 

It makes no sense that when Mrs. Smith woke up the morning after, and her husband wasn't in their room, that she headed off to the spa as if there wasn't something unusual about him not being there. That's just not logical.

 

BobK/Orlando

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Ok, I'm not a lawyer or anything, but does anyone know why a lawyer (Bree Smith, Mr. Smith's sister) would ask RC to stop calling them. Wouldn't a lawyer want as much information as possible. Plus, this is information about her brother. :confused:

 

Just wondering.......

 

My thought is that Bree Smith, Mr. Smith's sister immediately thought of a lawsuit against RCI for wrongful death or something like that. She advised them not to talk to RCI as any attorney considering litigation would do. I would agree that cooperating with the cruise line rather than immediately going into lawsuit mode would probably do more for the cause of finding out what happened to Geroge, but that is not what they did. Now RCI not only has to deal with the FBI investigation, but also has to fend off the constant attacks, often in the media, from two sets of attorneys (George's parents and JHS). It would seem that if all parties, RCI, JHS, and the parents were focused on what really happened to George, the exchange of information with each other and the FBI would be much smoother and the investigation would go much quicker. Instead, everyone involved has to be very careful because the ambulance chasing attorneys have pitted all parties against each other. It is very sad.

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corona & pirate, I have read a lot of posts by the two of you and you both sound like you are well informed and objective. I take it that you both are of the mind that George fell accidentally and I have to give that a lot of credence. My opinion seems to waver each day based on whatever revelations come along. I am about 60% accident, 40% foul play at this point. The reasons that I still consider foul play at this point are as follows:

1. The FBI has a ton of evidence and is still investigating and still has “gag” requests on all parties concerning certain information. If they were convinced of an accident, they would probably not be allocating resources 6 months later.

2. A lot of inconsistency in the publicly available information.

3. On Greta last night the staff captain clearly stated that 4 men escorted GS into his room. The cop saw 3 men leave the room, leaving someone in there with GS. He does report hearing only one male voice after that and did not hear anyone else leave, although the staff reports that the room was empty when they brought JHS in a few minutes later. This does not add up any way you slice it.

4. The staff captain also reported on Greta that the first response from JHS when asked where George was “He is probably in the room.” When told that the staff captain had just been in the room and it was empty, the then said that maybe he was with friends.

5. The staff captain would not elaborate, but did say that there were inconsistencies in the stories of the 4 men who were last seem with George.

6. Marie stated on Greta that Josh was in her office when JHS was brought in. After they told JHS that they had evidence that maybe George had gone overboard, Josh spoke up “out of the blue” and asked if they found blood on the out side of the ship, when the bloodstain had not been mentioned at that point. The staff captain did not answer Josh’s question.

 

It could be that a tragic accident happened and all of the inconsistencies are because people are just covering their butts. It could be accidental, but some of these people know more than they are saying because they do not want to be accused of not reporting it. Who knows at this point?

 

GS is certainly guilty of bad judgment and probably bad behavior on that night. His behavior that night is certainly not role model material. I do not think anyone would agree that his behavior should be punishable by death. If there was foul play up to and including homicide, I sincerely hope that the responsible party(s) are found and brought to justice. I also hope that if it was accidental, that can be proved as well so that the families can find some peace.

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One more point. When Josh asked about blood outside the ship, it could have been because he had heard the rumors already. After all, the blood was spotted around 8:30 and it was after 10:00 when JHS was brought into Maries office. On the other hand, he is the only one who felt compelled to go down to the office when he heard the Smiths being paged and was the only one of the 4 men who was taken to the Turkish police. He did seem awfully eager to accuse the casino employee. Again, it is not clear cut either way.

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corona & pirate, I have read a lot of posts by the two of you and you both sound like you are well informed and objective. I take it that you both are of the mind that George fell accidentally and I have to give that a lot of credence. My opinion seems to waver each day based on whatever revelations come along. I am about 60% accident, 40% foul play at this point. The reasons that I still consider foul play at this point are as follows:

1. The FBI has a ton of evidence and is still investigating and still has “gag” requests on all parties concerning certain information. If they were convinced of an accident, they would probably not be allocating resources 6 months later.

2. A lot of inconsistency in the publicly available information.

3. On Greta last night the staff captain clearly stated that 4 men escorted GS into his room. The cop saw 3 men leave the room, leaving someone in there with GS. He does report hearing only one male voice after that and did not hear anyone else leave, although the staff reports that the room was empty when they brought JHS in a few minutes later. This does not add up any way you slice it.

4. The staff captain also reported on Greta that the first response from JHS when asked where George was “He is probably in the room.” When told that the staff captain had just been in the room and it was empty, the then said that maybe he was with friends.

5. The staff captain would not elaborate, but did say that there were inconsistencies in the stories of the 4 men who were last seem with George.

6. Marie stated on Greta that Josh was in her office when JHS was brought in. After they told JHS that they had evidence that maybe George had gone overboard, Josh spoke up “out of the blue” and asked if they found blood on the out side of the ship, when the bloodstain had not been mentioned at that point. The staff captain did not answer Josh’s question.

 

It could be that a tragic accident happened and all of the inconsistencies are because people are just covering their butts. It could be accidental, but some of these people know more than they are saying because they do not want to be accused of not reporting it. Who knows at this point?

 

GS is certainly guilty of bad judgment and probably bad behavior on that night. His behavior that night is certainly not role model material. I do not think anyone would agree that his behavior should be punishable by death. If there was foul play up to and including homicide, I sincerely hope that the responsible party(s) are found and brought to justice. I also hope that if it was accidental, that can be proved as well so that the families can find some peace.

 

I know, I watched it too, and I agree with what you said. The staff aptain did elude to something being wrong with the picture. I am about 70/30 on the accident/murder.

 

But, you are right. We do not know everything. That's why I have said, "based on what we know". I'm sure now, after last night, things will continue to trickle out.

 

Didn't you find it odd, that the guy who went to Marie's office didn't have much interaction with Jennifer, but his mother spoke to her? Like he and Jennifer were trying to be discreet maybe?

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4. The staff captain also reported on Greta that the first response from JHS when asked where George was “He is probably in the room.” When told that the staff captain had just been in the room and it was empty, the then said that maybe he was with friends.

 

One question here though. She knew he wasn't in the room when she left. Did she think he might have shown up after she left? If so, then why didn't she call him from the spa to tell him that she had started her/their spa appt. early. It was a couples massage after all......I tend to discount anything she says.

 

Oh, and when Greta asked the staf captain where the guys went when they left Geroge, I thought it odd now, that he couldn't answer that. It has been reported several times that, I think all 3 of them went to one of the cabins and ordered room service. I believe it was said that they ordered a TON of food.......but, you still have the missing man....

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I know, I watched it too, and I agree with what you said. The staff aptain did elude to something being wrong with the picture. I am about 70/30 on the accident/murder.

 

But, you are right. We do not know everything. That's why I have said, "based on what we know". I'm sure now, after last night, things will continue to trickle out.

 

Didn't you find it odd, that the guy who went to Marie's office didn't have much interaction with Jennifer, but his mother spoke to her? Like he and Jennifer were trying to be discreet maybe?

 

carona, I did not pick up on that angle. That does seem odd. Josh has been very vocal about JHS and the casino employee, all the "groping", dancing, etc. Maybe some words were exchanged between the two the night before and they were already at odds. I found it odd that he was already up and in there anyway, especially after such a late night of partying. In fact, if the drinking was as intense as described, I am surprised that anyone of them was even functional the next morning! Then again, I am too old to go at it that hard.

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carona, I did not pick up on that angle. That does seem odd. Josh has been very vocal about JHS and the casino employee, all the "groping", dancing, etc. Maybe some words were exchanged between the two the night before and they were already at odds. I found it odd that he was already up and in there anyway, especially after such a late night of partying. In fact, if the drinking was as intense as described, I am surprised that anyone of them was even functional the next morning! Then again, I am too old to go at it that hard.

 

I also had the thought that maybe the reason she was found where she was, by the staff door, wasn't that she made a wrong turn, but that maybe she was coming OUT of that door, and just sat down......but then I thought, no, someone must have reported seeing her get off the elevator.....

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Marie used "The Man" sitting in a chair in her office, which was after he was interviewed by Security & was going to Turkish police as his family was in the lobby. He name was never used.

 

Greta gets applause for a great informative show. No baggering of RCCL folks either. Capt Wright, the hunk that will Captain Freedom, wqas terrific with what he could say. They first walked the casino, which she learns is closed until they are at sea due to legallities of the various countries they visit. George & Jen played craps & BJ. Casino closed at midnite so they then went to the disco. Greta gets to see the disco which is open 24/7 as folks use it to party in & for relaxation to read or look out windows during the cruise. Wright states that Jen left solo into the Atrium elevator to 9. There she turns right not left to her room & walks to the end of the hallway where the crew elevator is. There she sat down & fell asleep. Crew members come out of door as she falls in scaring the hell out of them (this is a new picture of what we were thinking). One runs to the phone & calls medical. That is the 3 folk with female that show to wake Jen up with the cold wet towel. They walk her part way down the hall as she tells them she is OK. Then the wheelchair shows to take her all the way down to 9062. They enter, see a messy stateroom, put her on the bed that was made. Balcony door was closed, as it should we people leave their stateroom. They did remove her sandals & left.

 

Jen shows at spa at 8:30AM for a 10:15AM appointment made the day before for couple's message. They tell her she is very early & she can relax in the relaxation room with juice. At 8:30AM Security receives a call from the mother of a teenager 2 floors down from the Smiths that got a new digital camera as a present that morning & went out onthe balcony to take pictures & sees the blood on the canopy & yells to mom to come see. She then takes the photos used so much. Security officers are now visiting all stateroom above the canopy & find the Smiths missing & another person. So the page all of them.

 

At the Spa, an employee coming into work is hearing the pages, see the Smiths scheduled & calls their room to wake them. This is where she finds Jen in the Ralaxation Room & notifies Security. The Staff Captain named Birger arrives & asks Jen where her husband is. She tells him they were partying the night before, and he is with friends. He tells her they have been paging them & no answer til the Spa calls that you are here. They leave to goto the Security room where she learns they fear he fell over. They interview her, as Turkish police & an FBI agent arrive. They also question her & 10 other people who are in the waiting area. Then Marie has her brought to her office and a man is sitting in a chair behind the door. Neither talks to each other & he leaves to join his parents in the hall. She takes Jen to the RCCL store to pick out clothes to wear & then to an empty cabin where she can shower. Marie gives her makeup to use, her zipper front sweatercoat & a CD player to make her day better.

Then everyone leaves the ship to be transported to the Turkish police for questioning. Then a medical exam of Jen at the Hospital & then a Judge wants to interview Jen. Marie is with her the whole day. Then the US Consulate tells Marie that they will take Jen now & they need all their belongings. So one agent goes with Marie, who calls Security to open the safe. They give her the combination. They pack the room, clear out the afe into the Consulate's pockets & rejoin Jen on the dock in a car. The US Consulate gives her the contents of the safe, which she puts into her purse that they gave her. She has a flight that night & they got her a day room at a hotel, The ship is cleared to sail & Marie takes Jen's hands & wishes her the best. She then rebords the ship & they sail.

 

Captain Wright then takes Greta into the next door room where the police sargeant was sleeping & hearing furniture moving. Wright moves furniture & you big noise. He drops the sofa & the carpet absorbs it. He then slams the walls with his fists & they are quite thick. He comments that at no time til morning did they look over the balcony at George's room. When he did he commented what dirty people they are. (I remember the photo very nice & clean & orderly, who did that if the guy next door stated it was a mess). Then we walks Greta who is saying stateroom numbers going to the Sander's stateroom 6052 which is 5 doors, not 4 away. He states their log shows 6060 being cleaned at the time Sanders state is was 6062. 6 months is a long time to try to remember stuff since they were never interviewed. They stated they saw no blood & then we virtually falling of the balcony taking photos. That is when Security wanted the blood cleaned off the steel canopy. FBI gave the OK. their agent was outside the statroom which only FBI had the keys to it. It remained sealed for 6 days (when they docked in Barcelona). FBI took the carpet, so they had to lay new carpet in it. Again that room was not sold to anyone on the return cruise.

 

He comments on a female voice with men hear by the police guy, a couple in the lower balcony cabin are awakened when they though the ship hit something. They even phoned asking what the big THUD was. They were told they are sailing just fine & Security will investigate. They interview the 2 neighbors on both sides of the Smith's cabin. The stories do not match. Wright comments as did Birger that 4 guys take George back to the stateroom but the neighbors see 3 walking down the hall. Josh in his interview stated it was the 2 NYC guys & their teenage brother with him. So a kid could have ran ahead of everyone since they hear no one else after seeing the 3 but they didn't nose around the balconies til much later. 2 cabins stating the noise they hear but neither went out on their balcony to investigate???? The 4 boys were interviewed by RCCL secirty & Birger stated the stories also do not match. So what the Turks got he doesn't know.

 

So a great show, very informative, and all hope FBI get the word out!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

corona & pirate, I have read a lot of posts by the two of you and you both sound like you are well informed and objective. I take it that you both are of the mind that George fell accidentally and I have to give that a lot of credence. My opinion seems to waver each day based on whatever revelations come along. I am about 60% accident, 40% foul play at this point. The reasons that I still consider foul play at this point are as follows:

1. The FBI has a ton of evidence and is still investigating and still has “gag” requests on all parties concerning certain information. If they were convinced of an accident, they would probably not be allocating resources 6 months later.

2. A lot of inconsistency in the publicly available information.

3. On Greta last night the staff captain clearly stated that 4 men escorted GS into his room. The cop saw 3 men leave the room, leaving someone in there with GS. He does report hearing only one male voice after that and did not hear anyone else leave, although the staff reports that the room was empty when they brought JHS in a few minutes later. This does not add up any way you slice it.

4. The staff captain also reported on Greta that the first response from JHS when asked where George was “He is probably in the room.” When told that the staff captain had just been in the room and it was empty, the then said that maybe he was with friends.

5. The staff captain would not elaborate, but did say that there were inconsistencies in the stories of the 4 men who were last seem with George.

6. Marie stated on Greta that Josh was in her office when JHS was brought in. After they told JHS that they had evidence that maybe George had gone overboard, Josh spoke up “out of the blue” and asked if they found blood on the out side of the ship, when the bloodstain had not been mentioned at that point. The staff captain did not answer Josh’s question.

 

It could be that a tragic accident happened and all of the inconsistencies are because people are just covering their butts. It could be accidental, but some of these people know more than they are saying because they do not want to be accused of not reporting it. Who knows at this point?

 

GS is certainly guilty of bad judgment and probably bad behavior on that night. His behavior that night is certainly not role model material. I do not think anyone would agree that his behavior should be punishable by death. If there was foul play up to and including homicide, I sincerely hope that the responsible party(s) are found and brought to justice. I also hope that if it was accidental, that can be proved as well so that the families can find some peace.

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The problem of the fourth person accompanying GS...I recall one of the many board reading that someone (a younger brother or cousin...something like that rings a bell) left the room to go order room service. This might explain why the cop only saw three people leave the cabin, yet the Captain refers to four people going to the cabin initially.

 

I also am convinced it was an accident...yet, I tend to agree as well that there must be more than meets the eye given the $$$ that the FBI is allocating to continue their investigation....

 

Trouble making decisions...yes and no!

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