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Lady Arwen

Sad News on Westerdam in Alaska

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Is it unusual he had a medical appointment? I've never had to go to the medical center, but I thought you just showed up. I note it was a 7 day cruise, though of course we have no idea when he embarked.

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Is it unusual he had a medical appointment? I've never had to go to the medical center, but I thought you just showed up. I note it was a 7 day cruise, though of course we have no idea when he embarked.

 

It is not unusual to have a medical appointment at the Medical Center, particularly if you had been there earlier in the trip for some reason. It's possible that only a Nurse was on duty and an appointment was made for when a doctor would be present.

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I would imagine that it is almost impossible to "fall" off a cruise ship these days without actually trying to.

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There are any number of plausible reasons, but in the final analysis, they don't really matter. Based on available information, her husband went overboard shortly after last seeing her. Had she reported him missing in as short a period of time as a couple of hours, it still wouldn't have prevented the sad outcome.

 

 

 

Water that temperature, without any exposure suit or protection, he’d be dead in about 20 minutes or so, and that’s for a person in good health. So unless someone actually saw him fall overboard and immediately alerted someone, which doesn’t seem to be the case, not much hope.

 

 

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Water that temperature, without any exposure suit or protection, he’d be dead in about 20 minutes or so, and that’s for a person in good health. So unless someone actually saw him fall overboard and immediately alerted someone, which doesn’t seem to be the case, not much hope.

 

 

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Another reason all cruise ships should be mandated to have automated Man Over Board (MOB) sensors. It may not save everyone, but at least there would be immediate notification when someone goes over and the search and rescue could start immediately. Hours after the incident is unacceptable when the technology is available.

 

 

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Another reason all cruise ships should be mandated to have automated Man Over Board (MOB) sensors. It may not save everyone, but at least there would be immediate notification when someone goes over and the search and rescue could start immediately. Hours after the incident is unacceptable when the technology is available.

 

 

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Research this topic please, before demanding it be installed on every ship. So far the MOB technology has not proven itself to be reliable.

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Research this topic please, before demanding it be installed on every ship. So far the MOB technology has not proven itself to be reliable.

 

 

No system is 100% reliable, but it is better than the current system that took 9 hours to report a person missing and 13 hours before the National Park Service was notified and a search began. If it only works 50% of the time and saves some it would be worth it.

 

 

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When my husband and I were cruising through the locks in the Panama Canal, we could not find each other for over 3 hours and we were actively looking for each other. We just kept missing each other, so I understand how some hours maybe have passed.

 

 

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No system is 100% reliable, but it is better than the current system that took 9 hours to report a person missing and 13 hours before the National Park Service was notified and a search began. If it only works 50% of the time and saves some it would be worth it.

 

 

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Research the MOB systems. You are not even in the same ball park claiming they work 50% of the time. The humint was lacking in this case; not any fantasy technology.

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IMHO this thread has once again become "unseemly". Could we please focus on our feelings and concern for those who have been affected?

 

 

My sympathy to all who have been touched by this, family, friends, crew.

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IMHO this thread has once again become "unseemly". Could we please focus on our feelings and concern for those who have been affected?

 

 

My sympathy to all who have been touched by this, family, friends, crew.

 

Yes, more sympathy and less must-have-the-last-word scoring of points would seem in order. I join you, VennDiagram, in offering sympathy to all affected by this sad situation.

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Do you think those who go overboard might have suicide plans/thoughts even before boarding? Depressing life events, tough medical diagnoses, spouse suggests cruise to alleviate depressed mood?

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Research the MOB systems. You are not even in the same ball park claiming they work 50% of the time. The humint was lacking in this case; not any fantasy technology.

 

 

Not sure why you are adamantly against something that may save a life, even if only 1% successful, but I’ll defer to your expert opinion.

 

 

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Research the MOB systems. You are not even in the same ball park claiming they work 50% of the time. The humint was lacking in this case; not any fantasy technology.

 

 

 

The cruise lines WANT this technology to work. It saves them money and bad PR. Someone falling off a ship is bad for business because the media jumps on the whole shock value of “cruise ships are dangerous” narrative. The fact they are not on every ship yet just shows that the systems aren’t reliable enough (yet).

 

 

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Do you think those who go overboard might have suicide plans/thoughts even before boarding? Depressing life events, tough medical diagnoses, spouse suggests cruise to alleviate depressed mood?

 

 

Yes, this is the most common reason listed, followed by drunkenness / carelessness and foul play. It is extremely rare for someone to fall off while doing normal activities (walking on deck, standing on their balcony, etc).

 

 

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Not sure why you are adamantly against something that may save a life, even if only 1% successful, but I’ll defer to your expert opinion.

 

 

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That 1% successful justification leads me to think that perhaps ships should all have safety nets rigged all around - to catch fallers and jumpers before they even hit the water. Such nets would save lives.

 

At some point it becomes virtually impossible to save all people from their own suicidal tendencies or foolish risk taking.

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Not sure why you are adamantly against something that may save a life, even if only 1% successful, but I’ll defer to your expert opinion.

 

 

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Saying they don’t work isn’t the same as being adamantly against it.

 

 

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Not sure why you are adamantly against something that may save a life, even if only 1% successful, but I’ll defer to your expert opinion.

 

 

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Trying to cast blame when even the cause has not been determined is the unseemly diversion. Already "maritime lawyers" are sniffing around this case and it is appalling what they have already concluded. Your comments about fault and/or blame at this time are unwarranted and ill-informed, just like those of the "maritime lawyers". (You can find these on a google search.) Admonitions about thread drift are warranted and need to be honored. Myself included.

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Trying to cast blame when even the cause has not been determined is the unseemly diversion. .

 

 

Not casting blame or fault on this or any case, just offered suggestions on possible ways to prevent future tragedies. Sadly it continues to happen.

 

 

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Is it unusual he had a medical appointment? I've never had to go to the medical center, but I thought you just showed up. I note it was a 7 day cruise, though of course we have no idea when he embarked.

 

Not really. Some I believe some ships are able to perform kidney dialysis for that procedure you would have a scheduled appointment.

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Not casting blame or fault on this or any case, just offered suggestions on possible ways to prevent future tragedies. Sadly it continues to happen.

 

 

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That’s the thing. It really doesn’t happen that much. 2.2 per year. Considering how many people cruise per year (20 million or so) it’s about a one in a million shot to fall off a cruise ship. And of those few that do, couldn’t find stats, but I’m sure more than a few were pushed off. About the only way someone falls off the ship is either doing something incredibly stupid (climbing on railings etc.), on purpose on their own (suicide), or on purpose by someone else (homicide). I think I’m ok taking my chances.

 

 

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Not really. Some I believe some ships are able to perform kidney dialysis for that procedure you would have a scheduled appointment.

 

You are correct. Once I had as table mates a doctor and his wife. The doctor was on-board specifically to treat several guests who required periodic kidney dialysis. From what I remember learning from the gentleman, this type of treatment was not routine aboard ship and had been specially arranged by an organization that works with those folks in need of dialysis.

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I agree, Ruth. The speculation regarding how and where is, IMHO, disrespectful.

 

I disagree. The reality is that none of us know these people and they will, in all likelihood, never read this thread.

 

And even if they did, there is nothing disrespectful about discussing how such a thing could happen. People who cruise are going to be interested in unusual things that happen on a cruise ship.

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This might sound harsh, but nearly all Man Overboard accidents can be traced back to alcohol or suicidal thoughts.

Both these things are nearly impossible to control unfortunately, and no technology will keep people from doing things they should not do.

I am not familiar enough to comment on this particular case, so please once again, my comments are of a general nature, notmregarding this tragedy in particular.

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Just about to disembark Westerdam and yesterday at the captain’s Q&A session, someone asked what his most difficult moment as a captain was and he said two weeks ago when a passenger decided to take his own life. So guessing that he was referring to this and they were able to confirm suicide.

 

 

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