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Consumer advocate article: "This is what happens when you're kicked off your cruise"


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Doesn't make much sense and contradicts itself. My mom lost her trip, my mom stayed with the ship. Hard to give it much credibility.

 

 

 

Agree. Lack of details and so many errors in the writing it’s hard to really understand. Off and on the ship without being scanned? I’m guessing the poster must have run through the checkpoint while ignoring the crew. And that whole bit about citizenship is totally incoherent.

 

 

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The most plausible scenario that comes to mind is that some minor pushing escalated a bit, the crew member lost balance and was hurt, and the expelled passengers’ follow up actions were to save face with friends and colleagues in light of their sudden return home. All parties are more or less normal people in this scenario, which is normally the case. But I wouldn’t put a bet on my guess being right.

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Oh. I thought I was going to read what happens when you're kicked off your cruise. All I read was a lawyer trying his case in a court of public opinion.

 

And you did read what happens when "you're kicked off your cruise." And, IMHO, it was a good move to go public with this case. It may well deter HAL or any other cruise line from duplicating this bad scenario. Assuming, of course, that all this happened as stated.

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I am curious, SeaGirl 23.

 

I see you are fairly new on CC (nothing wrong with that).

 

What is your cruising experience? Have you ever cruised? Have you ever cruised on HAL or have a HAL cruise booked?

 

You offer many opinions, but are any actually based on actual experience?

 

Are you a trained worker in any medical field dealing with mental health and personality traits or or your assessment of poster personalities on various threads just gratuitous comments?

 

Please let us know more about you so we can perhaps give you the information you might be here for.

 

Beautifully said. Thank you.

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The discussion left "arguing" unsupported assumptions some time ago, and became also an exploration of onboard procedure and process. Casting aspersions to the contrary is anathema to the spirit of fair play and open discussion.

 

More big words....

Roz

 

Not to put too fine a point on matters, Roz, but if you will re-read OlsSalt's Post that you quoted earlier you will see that he used the same "big words" in the Post quoted above and not "more big words" as you suggested ... unless you were referring to his use of big words such as "exploration", "procedure", "process" or "discussion" in his most recent Post. :confused::confused::confused:

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The most plausible scenario that comes to mind is that some minor pushing escalated a bit, the crew member lost balance and was hurt, and the expelled passengers’ follow up actions were to save face with friends and colleagues in light of their sudden return home. All parties are more or less normal people in this scenario, which is normally the case. But I wouldn’t put a bet on my guess being right.
Sounds possible but as you indicated we really don't know.

 

In cases like this, only a video would be worth giving any credence. No one here really •knows• anything substantial about this case and anyone trying to make it seem like they do is just playing a deception for their own personal motivations.

 

And that sorry behavior is universal... Land, sea, air... It makes no difference. People seem to love latching on to a bandwagon and playing the role of the outraged, especially if that bandwagon is bashing a big company or bashing someone of another culture or race for which they have prejudice.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

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All cruise lines have video cameras that are all over the ship and probably recorded this event completely. When the couple sue Carnival that owns HAL, the video will provide the evidence that will either support the couple's story or will lead to a big settlement by Carnival.

After more than 30 cruises and many on HAL, I would be betting with the couple when you factor in the delay in the response by the captain and the lack of reference to video evidence..................debarkation on HAL is ALWAYS chaotic according to our experience on this ship of the senior citizens...........errr that would include me I guess so must be an expert witness

 

Pitty we don’t have more testimonials of people who were on board and saw it all!

 

 

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From my experience, situations like this typically end up being the fault of the guest. I say "typically", because on occasion they aren't.

 

The liability of being wrong, the likelihood of video evidence, and standards put in place by large corporations are all deterrents to ensure bad decisions aren't made.

 

It will be interesting to see what the resolve is here.

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All cruise lines have video cameras that are all over the ship and probably recorded this event completely. When the couple sue Carnival that owns HAL, the video will provide the evidence that will either support the couple's story or will lead to a big settlement by Carnival.

After more than 30 cruises and many on HAL, I would be betting with the couple when you factor in the delay in the response by the captain and the lack of reference to video evidence..................debarkation on HAL is ALWAYS chaotic according to our experience on this ship of the senior citizens...........errr that would include me I guess so must be an expert witness

 

They may want to file suit quickly. I have worked for several companies over the years that routinely use video security. Unless there are specific requirements to the contrary tapes or online files have a pretty limited lifespan. Tapes get re-used and online files get deleted once certain criteria are reached. It would be a shame if the Chans are in the right for their lawyer to demand video that no longer exists. Conversely, if they are in the wrong then the corporation should make provisions to keep the video.

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I haven't read all of the comments posted, but was on the Zuiderdam on July 7 just after this incident and may have been their second part to the back-2-back. We heard nothing from any passangers that were on that part of the cruise. All I can say is that we found the staff to be warm, friendly and helpful. We thought the cruise had the best service ever from those we've been on (including many HAL).

When it comes to excursions and getting off of the ship, we found that some people just don't want to listen or follow directions. (How many times do you need to be asked to take a seat?) Some feel that they just don't have to wait for anyone, and get annoyed.

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I wonder if HAL is protecting the privacy of other passengers and that is the reason they will not release the video?

 

 

 

It’s real easy to block the identity of others in the video. It’s done all of the time on things like reality tv shows.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone while I probably should be working.

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I wonder if HAL is protecting the privacy of other passengers and that is the reason they will not release the video?

They will not release the video because the only person they need to release it to is the judge/court ... if the passenger decides to sue them. This is not YouTube material for everybody's enjoyment.

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I wonder if HAL is protecting the privacy of other passengers and that is the reason they will not release the video?

 

 

Why would they release the video? From HALs perspective they know what they know and found it sufficient to remove the couple from the ship. You also notice that it is the wife doing all of the complaining, the husband, the person actually accused is not commenting and does not even what his named released.

 

The only reason that HAL would release the tape would be in response to an actually court filing, not to the public.

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Other than the casino and the front desk, the one place there are cameras looking at every angle is the gangway area. Who gets on and off the ship is super critical. No one in this century uses tapes for their security cameras. The cameras are all digital and they are recorded on video servers that have multiple terabytes of storage, enough for at least 30 to 60 days of retention.

As we all know, the basic cruise fare is only about half of the total cost of the cruise. Your onboard purchases make up the remainder. When this incident happened, I'm sure the captain and security staff reviewed the video. Then, the entire video from all angles was sent to Seattle over the internet, with the captain's and security chief's report. The legal staff in Seattle looked at it very carefully, considered the captain's report, and then Seattle made the final decision, disembark the 2 passengers and fly them home. This decision was not made lightly, knowing the definite chance of a lawsuit and bad media publicity. HAL lost most onboard spending from this couple, they also spent around $1500 to $2000 to buy last minute, one-way air tickets to get them from Helsinki, back to San Francisco. And the couple will probably get their cruise fare back, after signing an agreement to no more legal action on this issue. So, HAL will lose money on this incident, may have to go through a nasty trial, and get bad press. I can assure you that the decision by Seattle to disembark the guests was not taken lightly and they probably feel pretty sure that the husband was definitely the instigator of the pushing or they would not have acted as they did.

People complain about the 2 day delay to confront the passengers. Considering the time differences of western Russia and Seattle, plus the decision making required in Seattle, it probably would take 2 days. Plus, they wouldn't dump these people off in Russia, with no entry visa. They would wait for a western port where they could disembark and get to the airport without any immigration issues.

We have been to St. Petersburg on a cruise. The ship is not cleared like it is in the Caribbean, where it takes 5 to 10 minutes. In St. Petersburg, each of maybe 2000-plus passengers must pass through Russian immigration before they can exit to their waiting shore excursion. When we went there, Russian immigration has only 2 lanes open for all of those passengers, and it took over an hour to clear. The tour operators are totally aware of this and they will wait.

There's no way HAL will post the video of the incident on social media or anywhere. They must be very confident they acted properly, and they are waiting for their day in court, if it goes that far.

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Other than the casino and the front desk, the one place there are cameras looking at every angle is the gangway area. Who gets on and off the ship is super critical. No one in this century uses tapes for their security cameras. The cameras are all digital and they are recorded on video servers that have multiple terabytes of storage, enough for at least 30 to 60 days of retention.

As we all know, the basic cruise fare is only about half of the total cost of the cruise. Your onboard purchases make up the remainder. When this incident happened, I'm sure the captain and security staff reviewed the video. Then, the entire video from all angles was sent to Seattle over the internet, with the captain's and security chief's report. The legal staff in Seattle looked at it very carefully, considered the captain's report, and then Seattle made the final decision, disembark the 2 passengers and fly them home. This decision was not made lightly, knowing the definite chance of a lawsuit and bad media publicity. HAL lost most onboard spending from this couple, they also spent around $1500 to $2000 to buy last minute, one-way air tickets to get them from Helsinki, back to San Francisco. And the couple will probably get their cruise fare back, after signing an agreement to no more legal action on this issue. So, HAL will lose money on this incident, may have to go through a nasty trial, and get bad press. I can assure you that the decision by Seattle to disembark the guests was not taken lightly and they probably feel pretty sure that the husband was definitely the instigator of the pushing or they would not have acted as they did.

People complain about the 2 day delay to confront the passengers. Considering the time differences of western Russia and Seattle, plus the decision making required in Seattle, it probably would take 2 days. Plus, they wouldn't dump these people off in Russia, with no entry visa. They would wait for a western port where they could disembark and get to the airport without any immigration issues.

We have been to St. Petersburg on a cruise. The ship is not cleared like it is in the Caribbean, where it takes 5 to 10 minutes. In St. Petersburg, each of maybe 2000-plus passengers must pass through Russian immigration before they can exit to their waiting shore excursion. When we went there, Russian immigration has only 2 lanes open for all of those passengers, and it took over an hour to clear. The tour operators are totally aware of this and they will wait.

There's no way HAL will post the video of the incident on social media or anywhere. They must be very confident they acted properly, and they are waiting for their day in court, if it goes that far.

 

Thank you for this post. This is the most logical scenario and explanation.

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Other than the casino and the front desk, the one place there are cameras looking at every angle is the gangway area. Who gets on and off the ship is super critical. No one in this century uses tapes for their security cameras. The cameras are all digital and they are recorded on video servers that have multiple terabytes of storage, enough for at least 30 to 60 days of retention.

As we all know, the basic cruise fare is only about half of the total cost of the cruise. Your onboard purchases make up the remainder. When this incident happened, I'm sure the captain and security staff reviewed the video. Then, the entire video from all angles was sent to Seattle over the internet, with the captain's and security chief's report. The legal staff in Seattle looked at it very carefully, considered the captain's report, and then Seattle made the final decision, disembark the 2 passengers and fly them home. This decision was not made lightly, knowing the definite chance of a lawsuit and bad media publicity. HAL lost most onboard spending from this couple, they also spent around $1500 to $2000 to buy last minute, one-way air tickets to get them from Helsinki, back to San Francisco. And the couple will probably get their cruise fare back, after signing an agreement to no more legal action on this issue. So, HAL will lose money on this incident, may have to go through a nasty trial, and get bad press. I can assure you that the decision by Seattle to disembark the guests was not taken lightly and they probably feel pretty sure that the husband was definitely the instigator of the pushing or they would not have acted as they did.

People complain about the 2 day delay to confront the passengers. Considering the time differences of western Russia and Seattle, plus the decision making required in Seattle, it probably would take 2 days. Plus, they wouldn't dump these people off in Russia, with no entry visa. They would wait for a western port where they could disembark and get to the airport without any immigration issues.

We have been to St. Petersburg on a cruise. The ship is not cleared like it is in the Caribbean, where it takes 5 to 10 minutes. In St. Petersburg, each of maybe 2000-plus passengers must pass through Russian immigration before they can exit to their waiting shore excursion. When we went there, Russian immigration has only 2 lanes open for all of those passengers, and it took over an hour to clear. The tour operators are totally aware of this and they will wait.

There's no way HAL will post the video of the incident on social media or anywhere. They must be very confident they acted properly, and they are waiting for their day in court, if it goes that far.

 

Excellent post. The only thing I'd question is that no one uses tapes anymore. Both our daughters are retail GMs for a major big box that still uses tapes. I suspect their profit margin is too small to justify coming into the 21st century. I work for a huge bank and even some of our sites are still on tape.

 

I think the reputational risk to HAL is minimal. I've only seen one story on the news sites I use and it had less than 100 comments. I think it's pretty much been forgotten by the general public.

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Other than the casino and the front desk, the one place there are cameras looking at every angle is the gangway area. Who gets on and off the ship is super critical. No one in this century uses tapes for their security cameras. The cameras are all digital and they are recorded on video servers that have multiple terabytes of storage, enough for at least 30 to 60 days of retention.

As we all know, the basic cruise fare is only about half of the total cost of the cruise. Your onboard purchases make up the remainder. When this incident happened, I'm sure the captain and security staff reviewed the video. Then, the entire video from all angles was sent to Seattle over the internet, with the captain's and security chief's report. The legal staff in Seattle looked at it very carefully, considered the captain's report, and then Seattle made the final decision, disembark the 2 passengers and fly them home. This decision was not made lightly, knowing the definite chance of a lawsuit and bad media publicity. HAL lost most onboard spending from this couple, they also spent around $1500 to $2000 to buy last minute, one-way air tickets to get them from Helsinki, back to San Francisco. And the couple will probably get their cruise fare back, after signing an agreement to no more legal action on this issue. So, HAL will lose money on this incident, may have to go through a nasty trial, and get bad press. I can assure you that the decision by Seattle to disembark the guests was not taken lightly and they probably feel pretty sure that the husband was definitely the instigator of the pushing or they would not have acted as they did.

People complain about the 2 day delay to confront the passengers. Considering the time differences of western Russia and Seattle, plus the decision making required in Seattle, it probably would take 2 days. Plus, they wouldn't dump these people off in Russia, with no entry visa. They would wait for a western port where they could disembark and get to the airport without any immigration issues.

We have been to St. Petersburg on a cruise. The ship is not cleared like it is in the Caribbean, where it takes 5 to 10 minutes. In St. Petersburg, each of maybe 2000-plus passengers must pass through Russian immigration before they can exit to their waiting shore excursion. When we went there, Russian immigration has only 2 lanes open for all of those passengers, and it took over an hour to clear. The tour operators are totally aware of this and they will wait.

There's no way HAL will post the video of the incident on social media or anywhere. They must be very confident they acted properly, and they are waiting for their day in court, if it goes that far.

 

 

 

How do you know Seattle reviewed?

 

 

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