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Harvey1976

Removing gratuities after a cruise

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I think they're on a sticky wicket. Very difficult to prove that they handed out £400 in tips to the crew. That money will already be squirrelled away in the Bank of Punjab.

 

Sent from my CUBOT MAGIC using Forums mobile app

Agreed that they can't prove that they paid the cash but they can still try to get the auto grats back. As others have said they signed nothing to allow P&O to take them but I feel that they may find that P&O will say that it too late now and/or make it very onerous to get them back.

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I think they're on a sticky wicket. Very difficult to prove that they handed out £400 in tips to the crew. That money will already be squirrelled away in the Bank of Punjab.

 

Sent from my CUBOT MAGIC using Forums mobile app

 

I am with Josy on this. It is about the auto-gratuities. Clearly they know they are handing over cash. They do not know about gratuities being added to their on board account unless they study the account statement closely.

 

Regards John

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We are just back from Aurora - the charges were on our bill on the second day.

 

Have they started to automatically provide daily paper bills to your cabin without requesting them or did you ask for one?

 

If it is the latter then unless you take action you won't see this charge until the last night.

 

As I said before, if someone asks for this unauthorised charge back after the cruise then P&O would be stupid to do anything other than to hand it back.

 

We asked for a bill - we had 2 rooms and wanted to check that the accounts had been combined.

 

On other cruise lines we have been on, the gratuities were billed daily but this was the whole amount on day 2.

 

Lou

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We asked for a bill - we had 2 rooms and wanted to check that the accounts had been combined.

 

On other cruise lines we have been on, the gratuities were billed daily but this was the whole amount on day 2.

 

So had you not asked you would not have known about the service charge.

 

Exactly my point, P&O don't notify their customers of the charge and don't get a positive authorisation for it.

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So had you not asked you would not have known about the service charge.

 

Exactly my point, P&O don't notify their customers of the charge and don't get a positive authorisation for it.

 

They certainly notify their customers in several different ways. I have my holiday information booklet for my cruise next month in front of me and there is a paragraph on Page 4, on a page entitled Your Holiday To do List

 

How much should I pay for tips?

Our Service Reward Programme adds a discretionary daily amount to your on-board account of £7.00 per day for each guest aged 12 and over.

This is from the P&O website

 

During your time on board, you'll be looked after by lots of people - waiters, buffet staff and cabin stewards, who'll go out of their way to make each moment of your holiday special.

Rewarding good service every time it happens isn’t always easy. So, our Service Reward Programme is a simple, one-off way for you to say ‘thank you’ for all the service you receive. A discretionary amount of £7.00 is added to your on-board account for each night you are onboard (eg. a 2 night cruise would be a total of £14pp, and a 7 night cruise would be a total of £49pp), for each guest aged 12 and over. This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work.

It means you can relax and enjoy your holiday, knowing tips are taken care of.

The Service Reward appears on your on-board account statement as a ‘service charge’ and is confirmed in your holiday information booklet, accessed through your Cruise Personaliser. If you wish to change the amount of service charge you pay, simply contact Reception.

You can also personally recognise a crew member by nominating them for our Outstanding Service Award. So, if someone goes the extra mile for you, use the nomination cards at Reception to let us know. It’s an opportunity for crew members to gain recognition they deserve, as well as prizes and a cash award.

P&O do not charge a service charge when purchasing drinks onboard.

P&O cannot be expected to contact cruisers individually to notify them but they do so in the same way they contact you with everything about your cruise. The couple in the OP's post made a costly mistake and had actually been advised of what to do by their son. I feel very sorry for them but won't blame P&O. However the question is: is it worth a letter to P&O and yes I think so

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So had you not asked you would not have known about the service charge.

 

Exactly my point, P&O don't notify their customers of the charge and don't get a positive authorisation for it.

 

We did know about them before just not that they would be deducted in one go!

 

Lou

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We did know about them before just not that they would be deducted in one go!

 

Lou

What difference does that make? It comes off your credit (or debit) card in one lump whether it shows on your account in one go or not. It would add an extra page to your statement (more trees and oil based ink).

In fact the sooner it shows on your statement and wipes out any OBC the sooner loyalty discount kicks in.

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We did know about them before just not that they would be deducted in one go!

 

Lou

The result is the same whether they are applied daily, or in total on the first or last full day, the end product is still the same.

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Actually P &O can and are expected to do so if they are taking money from a customer. The onus is not on a customer to stop a charge, it is on the provider to have clear authorisation - not an inertia clause.

Just because I put something in black in white (that a customer may or may not read) does not entitle me to take funds from a credit card. Take that to its logical conclusion on dry land with other service providers who have access to your credit card details. A hypothetical discretionary service charge for the hard working Supermarket staff which they add information about on their web and in the loyalty card booklet - then just take?

There is also the question of diversity in this situation: availability of large print, Braille etc not to mention that there are still many people in the UK who are functionally illiterate, (apparently one of the highest rates in the developed world). Some people will genuinely not know about this until they get their final bill.

How many people read every bit of paperwork they are issued cover to cover, all the t&cs and the entire content of the website? Very few if any I suspect.

For repeat cruisers they know the drill but I do sympathise with newbies who find out about this the hard way on the last day.

P&O could resolve this easily by adding a note to documents that people will always read (or have read to them) eg the cruise confirmation, rather than it floating vaguely in a sea of other information where is can and obviously has been missed by passengers.

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The result is the same whether they are applied daily, or in total on the first or last full day, the end product is still the same.

I agree (see above) however the sooner they appears on your account the sooner loyalty discount kicks in :)

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I agree (see above) however the sooner they appears on your account the sooner loyalty discount kicks in :)

But again it does not matter, because you still end up with the same loyalty bonus on your final bill, unless you are going to spend more because you appear to reach the target sooner. In which case maybe leaving it till the last day will result in a smaller spend.;p

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But again it does not matter, because you still end up with the same loyalty bonus on your final bill, unless you are going to spend more because you appear to reach the target sooner. In which case maybe leaving it till the last day will result in a smaller spend.;p

It does matter because loyalty discount doesn't kick in till the OBC is used. The grats coming off on day 2 means all spends after that are discounted. If they come off daily or at the end spending won't be discounted until much later, or at all.

The discount comes off each individual item, after OBC has been used up, not in a lump sum at the bottom of the statement.

Edited by FangedRose

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It does matter because loyalty discount doesn't kick in till the OBC is used. The grats coming off on day 2 means all spends after that are discounted. If they come off daily or at the end spending won't be discounted until much later, or at all.

The discount comes off each individual item, after OBC has been used up, not in a lump sum at the bottom of the statement.

I beg to differ, the accrued discount will end up exactly the same regardless of when the spend is posted to the account, always assuming that all your OBC has been used.

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I beg to differ, the accrued discount will end up exactly the same regardless of when the spend is posted to the account, always assuming that all your OBC has been used.

A drink before loyalty discount costs £6.95. 30 mins later, after OBC has been used up is £6.95 - 8.5%. Not the same at all!

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A drink before loyalty discount costs £6.95. 30 mins later, after OBC has been used up is £6.95 - 8.5%. Not the same at all!

Not sure how I can convince you, but whatever your net spend is after OBC has been used, will be subject to loyalty discount, just when its posted to your account is irrelevant.

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Not sure how I can convince you, but whatever your net spend is after OBC has been used, will be subject to loyalty discount, just when its posted to your account is irrelevant.

Grats do not attract loyalty discount. Therefore I would rather use OBC towards them. Then everything after that is less 8.5%. If grats were posted at the end everything I spent would come off OBC at full price, then grats would also come off at full price.

If grats came off at end I would not get any discount at all as I would be using OBC.

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What difference does that make? It comes off your credit (or debit) card in one lump whether it shows on your account in one go or not. It would add an extra page to your statement (more trees and oil based ink).

In fact the sooner it shows on your statement and wipes out any OBC the sooner loyalty discount kicks in.

 

I was answering another poster. It makes no difference to me when the grats are shown

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On a recent cruise, we just checked our account every day using the online account page on our TV. Each day's expenditure is listed, together with that day's gratuities. We never wait until we get our final paper account to see what we've spent as we would rather keep track as we go. I appreciate, however, that some elderly passengers who are not "tech savvy" might find this a little challenging.

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On a recent cruise, we just checked our account every day using the online account page on our TV. Each day's expenditure is listed, together with that day's gratuities. We never wait until we get our final paper account to see what we've spent as we would rather keep track as we go. I appreciate, however, that some elderly passengers who are not "tech savvy" might find this a little challenging.

I also do that too. Unfortunately not all ships have the technology, including Britannia. Others which used to have it, lost it, after refits. Something to do with mismatch of computer systems.

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Grats do not attract loyalty discount. Therefore I would rather use OBC towards them. Then everything after that is less 8.5%. If grats were posted at the end everything I spent would come off OBC at full price, then grats would also come off at full price.

If grats came off at end I would not get any discount at all as I would be using OBC.

I am reasonably certain that loyalty bonus is the last thing calculated on your on board account, so whatever your net spend is will attract the loyalty bonus; and I guess that would still apply whenever P&O list the gratuity. Although since they now show the gratuity on day 2 it doesn't really matter.

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I also do that too. Unfortunately not all ships have the technology, including Britannia. Others which used to have it, lost it, after refits. Something to do with mismatch of computer systems.

 

Yes it used to be a great way to keep track. They no longer provide interim statements either so unless you go and request one it’s all down the bill delivered in the middle of the last night.

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I am reasonably certain that loyalty bonus is the last thing calculated on your on board account, so whatever your net spend is will attract the loyalty bonus; and I guess that would still apply whenever P&O list the gratuity. Although since they now show the gratuity on day 2 it doesn't really matter.

No. Every item, after OBC is used, is shown as price minus discount. It is calculated and shown per purchase. It is not calculated as net spend. It is not on the slip you sign but ask for a statement and it clearly shows.

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No. Every item, after OBC is used, is shown as price minus discount. It is calculated and shown per purchase. It is not calculated as net spend. It is not on the slip you sign but ask for a statement and it clearly shows.

You are of course correct and because grats are currently listed on day 2 they have already absorbed some, if not all, OBC, so your loyalty bonus is paid in full.

Possibly someone who has been on a world cruise with thousands of OBC might be able to comment on how P&O handle this when grats are loaded by sector?

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They certainly notify their customers in several different ways. I have my holiday information booklet for my cruise next month in front of me and there is a paragraph on Page 4, on a page entitled Your Holiday To do List

 

How much should I pay for tips?

Our Service Reward Programme adds a discretionary daily amount to your on-board account of £7.00 per day for each guest aged 12 and over.

This is from the P&O website

 

During your time on board, you'll be looked after by lots of people - waiters, buffet staff and cabin stewards, who'll go out of their way to make each moment of your holiday special.

Rewarding good service every time it happens isn’t always easy. So, our Service Reward Programme is a simple, one-off way for you to say ‘thank you’ for all the service you receive. A discretionary amount of £7.00 is added to your on-board account for each night you are onboard (eg. a 2 night cruise would be a total of £14pp, and a 7 night cruise would be a total of £49pp), for each guest aged 12 and over. This helps reward the waiters and buffet staff as well as your cabin steward or butler, who greatly appreciate your recognition of their hard work.

It means you can relax and enjoy your holiday, knowing tips are taken care of.

The Service Reward appears on your on-board account statement as a ‘service charge’ and is confirmed in your holiday information booklet, accessed through your Cruise Personaliser. If you wish to change the amount of service charge you pay, simply contact Reception.

You can also personally recognise a crew member by nominating them for our Outstanding Service Award. So, if someone goes the extra mile for you, use the nomination cards at Reception to let us know. It’s an opportunity for crew members to gain recognition they deserve, as well as prizes and a cash award.

P&O do not charge a service charge when purchasing drinks onboard.

P&O cannot be expected to contact cruisers individually to notify them but they do so in the same way they contact you with everything about your cruise. The couple in the OP's post made a costly mistake and had actually been advised of what to do by their son. I feel very sorry for them but won't blame P&O. However the question is: is it worth a letter to P&O and yes I think so

 

Sorry but P&O IS expected to individually notify and obtain authorisation for charges they will be putting on a customer's card.

 

The charge does not appear anywhere on the booking website, the invoices, the emails, etc.

 

P&O will refund without blinking.

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Your understanding is wrong.

 

There is NOTHING in the T&Cs about the service charge (https://www.pocruises.com/Global/pdf/poc-booking-conditions.pdf). In fact the existence of a service charge is not mentioned at ANY stage in the booking process.

 

As the service charge only appears on the bill on the last night without any mention of it, then in no sense can it have been said to have been 'authorised'.

 

Frankly if anyone contacted P&O after their cruise and asked for the service charge back then P&O would be idiots if they didn't refund and opened this can of worms.

 

They actually appear on the statement on day 2. (have on every cruise we have done since they came in) I would agree they contact pando but I am not sure your way is the best (stating its not in the tand c so I didn't agree to it). I always use the carrot when I have a problem. Not a huge great stick.

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