New Program called "The Key"

[OSUZorba]

11 minutes ago, JoeFan said:

 

$25/Day PP that is.

So a family of 4 is $100/Day

 

And the reports of the exclusive hours were first thing in the morning or during dinner which some reports say weren't utilized. And not everyone is going to use the Flowrider any way and if its spread around all day, maybe the impact to non paying riders won't be so bad. 

 

Personally, I like any time priority and wouldn't have any problem jumping to the front of the line. I would, however, like to see a Key sign at the attraction.

Yeah, my concern was that people wouldn't be willing to cut the line.

 

Compared to the cost of a cruise the $25/day pp is nothing and guessing a big chunk of people buying this will be doing it for cut the line access if that becomes the norm. It would severely lengthen the line for everyone  else. Especially if you get some of the advanced stand up people that do nothing besides ride the flowrider all day everyday.

 

Meanwhile people that paid a lot more than the key for an owner's suite get cut in front of.

 

[rkkunk]

14 minutes ago, JoeFan said:

 

I would like to know this as well.

Some like to sit further back in the center, but I like to be closer to the stage.

If it is where the Suite seating is now, it’s not worth it to us, at least not for the ice skating show.You might like it, actually. It is over on one side down in the front. The seating for the theater is up in the balcony in the middle. We actually don’t mind the seating for those shows.

 

The seating for the ice show used to be at the end of the rink so that you were looking straight at them during the show. We just prefer that.

[JoeFan]

7 minutes ago, OSUZorba said:

Yeah, my concern was that people wouldn't be willing to cut the line.

 

Compared to the cost of a cruise the $25/day pp is nothing and guessing a big chunk of people buying this will be doing it for cut the line access if that becomes the norm. It would severely lengthen the line for everyone  else. Especially if you get some of the advanced stand up people that do nothing besides ride the flowrider all day everyday.

 

Meanwhile people that paid a lot more than the key for an owner's suite get cut in front of.

 

 

It's all theories at the moment and lots of variables. 

[vacationlover_mn]

3 hours ago, jrljel said:

  Sure but I am also sure that someone has posted it already on here several times if you want it right now

I’m curious about specifically the Mariner one.. it seems to differ by ship?

[aespo4]

•                                                                                                                                                                                    
• Here is my review of The Key on The Allure.  We went on March 10th - 17th.  We went out of Miami from Terminal A and it was very quick to get to the waiting area where we were seated with everyone.  There was no specific area for The Key. We boarded right after Pinnacle which was nice as there were not that many Pinnacle members. Once on board, we went to drop off our carry-on in the theater which was quick and easy. We did have a problem with some of our booking reservations so we went to clear that up before going for lunch at Chops.  We arrived at Chops at 11:30am (approximately) and there was already a line up.  We got lucky to get in as others behind us were encouraged to go to Giovanni's instead.  Chops had a limited menu but it was great.  Our cabin was ready by 1pm and our carry-ons were already in the room and two out of our three luggages had already arrived.  
• Our daughter wanted to try Flowrider and she did that afternoon before the muster drill.  It was not yet part of the key time but nonetheless it was not that busy.  There were 5 Key sessions for Flowrider and most of the time there were about seven regular flowriders.  On day two, my daughter had 5 turns on Flowrider in the one hour Key session.  The second day, she went on only three times due to a few more flowriders that showed up.  Day 4 which was a port day, it was less busy at the Key session initially and then gradually throughout the hour it got busier.  The same happened on Day 6.  Day 7 Flowrider was super busy during the Key (10-12 people).    Non-key times were always packed if it was a sea day!  It took approximately 40 minutes to 1.5 hours to get one (two-three minute) turn, specifically on the surfing side.   The boogie boarding was just as busy but because they separated the one Flowrider area into two sections, it went a little faster.
• We had reservations for all the shows (even though we had the Key program) because it was necessary to do so (as we were told by one of the reservation agents and as stated on the letter).  However, when we arrived to the show and told the attendant that was scanning all other sea pass cards that we were part of the Key program, they just let us in without scanning our cards.  We thought this was a fluke so we tried it again the second night and the same happened (no scanning and let us in).  This happened with all the shows or which they told us we needed reservations (Aqua show, skating show, Mamma Mia, Headliner, etc.).  We would recommend making reservations just in case this protocol changes.  We would hate for you to miss any of the shows.  There was reserved seating for all Key guests in the first balcony in the theatre (first three rows and perfect view of stage); first three rows in the center area facing the ice rink; almost the centre back three rows of the Aqua Theatre (nice seats).
• On the last day, the breakfast was great and it was an a-la-carte breakfast in one of the main dining rooms with only key guests.  The steak and eggs was incredible.  We then proceeded to the Champagne Lounge where we waited for an attendant to take us (Key guests) off the ship separately from all other cruise guests.  Our luggage was in a special area right when we got off the ship.  It was a very easy disembarkation.    
• Price:  we paid $19.99/person/day and well worth it.  We believe it is now around $24.99/person/day and we believe it is still worth it!  We booked another cruise in August on the Allure again and we are presently paying $24.99 for the Key.  Hopefully it comes down to $19.99 again and they keep all the perks the same!  Fantastic program overall!                                

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by aespo4

[OSUZorba]

3 hours ago, JoeFan said:

 

It's all theories at the moment and lots of variables. 

I've had the same guy on my last 4 cruises and another that has been on 3 of my last 4 that ride the flowrider every minute it is open for standup. They are both really nice guys and (apparently) we like to cruise at the same times. Both of them do 6-10 cruises a year, pretty much to ride the flowriders all the time. I am sure for them getting the Key is nothing if it gave them a lot more time on the wave, and they would likely be there all day.

 

So of course it is a great benefit of the program, but I can easily see it being abused to the point of significantly impacting other cruisers. I know if I got it and could cut the line, I would ride 2+ hours a day.

[jrljel]

1 hour ago, vacationlover_mn said:

I’m curious about specifically the Mariner one.. it seems to differ by ship?

 

Will do!

[bradenj21]

29 minutes ago, aespo4 said:

•                                                                                                                                                                                    
• Here is my review of The Key on The Allure.  We went on March 10th - 17th.  We went out of Miami from Terminal A and it was very quick to get to the waiting area where we were seated with everyone.  There was no specific area for The Key. We boarded right after Pinnacle which was nice as there were not that many Pinnacle members. Once on board, we went to drop off our carry-on in the theater which was quick and easy. We did have a problem with some of our booking reservations so we went to clear that up before going for lunch at Chops.  We arrived at Chops at 11:30am (approximately) and there was already a line up.  We got lucky to get in as others behind us were encouraged to go to Giovanni's instead.  Chops had a limited menu but it was great.  Our cabin was ready by 1pm and our carry-ons were already in the room and two out of our three luggages had already arrived.  
• Our daughter wanted to try Flowrider and she did that afternoon before the muster drill.  It was not yet part of the key time but nonetheless it was not that busy.  There were 5 Key sessions for Flowrider and most of the time there were about seven regular flowriders.  On day two, my daughter had 5 turns on Flowrider in the one hour Key session.  The second day, she went on only three times due to a few more flowriders that showed up.  Day 4 which was a port day, it was less busy at the Key session initially and then gradually throughout the hour it got busier.  The same happened on Day 6.  Day 7 Flowrider was super busy during the Key (10-12 people).    Non-key times were always packed if it was a sea day!  It took approximately 40 minutes to 1.5 hours to get one (two-three minute) turn, specifically on the surfing side.   The boogie boarding was just as busy but because they separated the one Flowrider area into two sections, it went a little faster.
• We had reservations for all the shows (even though we had the Key program) because it was necessary to do so (as we were told by one of the reservation agents and as stated on the letter).  However, when we arrived to the show and told the attendant that was scanning all other sea pass cards that we were part of the Key program, they just let us in without scanning our cards.  We thought this was a fluke so we tried it again the second night and the same happened (no scanning and let us in).  This happened with all the shows or which they told us we needed reservations (Aqua show, skating show, Mamma Mia, Headliner, etc.).  We would recommend making reservations just in case this protocol changes.  We would hate for you to miss any of the shows.  There was reserved seating for all Key guests in the first balcony in the theatre (first three rows and perfect view of stage); first three rows in the center area facing the ice rink; almost the centre back three rows of the Aqua Theatre (nice seats).
• On the last day, the breakfast was great and it was an a-la-carte breakfast in one of the main dining rooms with only key guests.  The steak and eggs was incredible.  We then proceeded to the Champagne Lounge where we waited for an attendant to take us (Key guests) off the ship separately from all other cruise guests.  Our luggage was in a special area right when we got off the ship.  It was a very easy disembarkation.    
• Price:  we paid $19.99/person/day and well worth it.  We believe it is now around $24.99/person/day and we believe it is still worth it!  We booked another cruise in August on the Allure again and we are presently paying $24.99 for the Key.  Hopefully it comes down to $19.99 again and they keep all the perks the same!  Fantastic program overall!                                

 

Did you get any extras in the room? Fruit plate or cookies? Specific to The Key - not C&A.

[aespo4]

2 minutes ago, bradenj21 said:

Did you get any extras in the room? Fruit plate or cookies? Specific to The Key - not C&A.

Yes we did get a fruit plate.

[sandebeach]

I did the Key on Symphony March 9-16. We were in a junior suite, but no free wifi with a JS. When the Key went down to $19.99/pp/per day, I decided to purchase. When we got into Terminal A, I asked an agent to direct me to where we should go. I told her I had bought the Key, but it was not on my Set Sail pass. Since we were in a JS, she sent us to the private elevator for Suite guests. In the Suite lounge the agents did our check-in with their iPads, and told us to go to the Theater for luggage drop off after we boarded. At the Theater we dropped off our carry- on bags after the RC staff person checked to see that we were on the list, and got our Internet access codes. We went to Chops for lunch, there was a short line to enter but it went really quick, and we finished lunch in a little over an hour. Lunch was delicious. When cabins opened at 1 PM, we got our Sea Pass card outside the cabin door, and noted that there was no Key sticker on our cards. My husband went to Guest Services the following day, when there was only a minimal line, and they gave him Key stickers to put on our cards. As for shows, the Key wasn’t that great for us. I had scrambled to make show reservations at the last minute, because when I booked the Key it clearly stated no reservations were needed. So I ended up with not the best of times, but all were okay except for having to reserve the Aqua show for 11 PM on Day 2. Well, we did not make because we ended up in bed by 10 PM. We tried to get into HiRo the next night, the stand-by lines were very, very long, so I asked if we could go in the reservation line because we had the Key. I was firmly told No, even with the Key I needed to have made reservations. We did get to use the reserved seating for the ice show and for Flight, but D+ was also allowed to use the reserved seats, so we could have just sat there because we are D+ (I thought I read on CC that reserved seating was no longer allowed for D+). We did not do any activities, so I can’t comment on that.  But the Key was Great for departure day. We went to the MDR on deck 4 at 6:50 AM, had a nice breakfast, and with another group of Key guests, met the agent at 7:30 AM in the front of the MDR. She took us to an elevator, up to 5, and then through a closed door which brought us in front of the Bionic Bar. Another agent then escorted us off the ship and down to the terminal, and down a separate corridor to bring s to our luggage. We were through Customs and in our car in less than 8 minutes, incredible.  So the Key was great for Embarkation day lunch, wifi, and Departure day, and I would probably buy it again.

[rockmom]

1 hour ago, aespo4 said:

•                                                                                                                                                                                    
• Here is my review of The Key on The Allure.  We went on March 10th - 17th.  We went out of Miami from Terminal A and it was very quick to get to the waiting area where we were seated with everyone.  There was no specific area for The Key. We boarded right after Pinnacle which was nice as there were not that many Pinnacle members. Once on board, we went to drop off our carry-on in the theater which was quick and easy. We did have a problem with some of our booking reservations so we went to clear that up before going for lunch at Chops.  We arrived at Chops at 11:30am (approximately) and there was already a line up.  We got lucky to get in as others behind us were encouraged to go to Giovanni's instead.  Chops had a limited menu but it was great.  Our cabin was ready by 1pm and our carry-ons were already in the room and two out of our three luggages had already arrived.  
• Our daughter wanted to try Flowrider and she did that afternoon before the muster drill.  It was not yet part of the key time but nonetheless it was not that busy.  There were 5 Key sessions for Flowrider and most of the time there were about seven regular flowriders.  On day two, my daughter had 5 turns on Flowrider in the one hour Key session.  The second day, she went on only three times due to a few more flowriders that showed up.  Day 4 which was a port day, it was less busy at the Key session initially and then gradually throughout the hour it got busier.  The same happened on Day 6.  Day 7 Flowrider was super busy during the Key (10-12 people).    Non-key times were always packed if it was a sea day!  It took approximately 40 minutes to 1.5 hours to get one (two-three minute) turn, specifically on the surfing side.   The boogie boarding was just as busy but because they separated the one Flowrider area into two sections, it went a little faster.
• We had reservations for all the shows (even though we had the Key program) because it was necessary to do so (as we were told by one of the reservation agents and as stated on the letter).  However, when we arrived to the show and told the attendant that was scanning all other sea pass cards that we were part of the Key program, they just let us in without scanning our cards.  We thought this was a fluke so we tried it again the second night and the same happened (no scanning and let us in).  This happened with all the shows or which they told us we needed reservations (Aqua show, skating show, Mamma Mia, Headliner, etc.).  We would recommend making reservations just in case this protocol changes.  We would hate for you to miss any of the shows.  There was reserved seating for all Key guests in the first balcony in the theatre (first three rows and perfect view of stage); first three rows in the center area facing the ice rink; almost the centre back three rows of the Aqua Theatre (nice seats).
• On the last day, the breakfast was great and it was an a-la-carte breakfast in one of the main dining rooms with only key guests.  The steak and eggs was incredible.  We then proceeded to the Champagne Lounge where we waited for an attendant to take us (Key guests) off the ship separately from all other cruise guests.  Our luggage was in a special area right when we got off the ship.  It was a very easy disembarkation.    
• Price:  we paid $19.99/person/day and well worth it.  We believe it is now around $24.99/person/day and we believe it is still worth it!  We booked another cruise in August on the Allure again and we are presently paying $24.99 for the Key.  Hopefully it comes down to $19.99 again and they keep all the perks the same!  Fantastic program overall!                                

 

Thanks for this review--we head out on Allure in 60 days and are excited to try out The Key.  We won't be hogging up the flowrider line, but might make use of the rockwall or zipline times. It was the rest of the perks that we felt made it worth it based on what we enjoy while cruising.  

[brillohead]

9 minutes ago, sandebeach said:

But the Key was Great for departure day. We went to the MDR on deck 4 at 6:50 AM, had a nice breakfast, and with another group of Key guests, met the agent at 7:30 AM in the front of the MDR. She took us to an elevator, up to 5, and then through a closed door which brought us in front of the Bionic Bar. Another agent then escorted us off the ship and down to the terminal, and down a separate corridor to bring s to our luggage. We were through Customs and in our car in less than 8 minutes, incredible.  So the Key was great for Embarkation day lunch, wifi, and Departure day, and I would probably buy it again.

I didn't do breakfast on Debarkation day, and I wasn't in a suite of any kind (was in a lowly interior, in fact), and from the time I left my room on Deck 6 at 8am to when I was on the sidewalk catching a ride to the airport was maybe ten minutes, and that's mostly because I had to stop and rest my bum knee a couple times.  

Forgot to mention, I was on the exact same cruise you were on, the Great Canadian Spring Break on Symphony!  

So maybe something to keep in mind for future cruises out of Miami's new terminal -- the "debarkation priority perk" isn't really a thing with the way the new terminal moves people through so quickly.  If you get priority seating for shows as D+ and you don't use the exclusive activity times, you may be better off just paying for lunch at Chops and a multi-device internet package.   

I've waited in a debarkation line on other ships in other terminals that seemed to not move for hours and hours (perhaps a slight exaggeration... but that's how it felt at the time!), and in cases like that, I'd have paid for The Key just to bypass that line, other perks be damned!  But the way they have things moving through Miami's new Terminal A, unless you really really need that sit-down breakfast, debarkation's not much of a deal at all.
 

[emdia43]

Do you still have to pay for Chops?

 

[brillohead]

7 minutes ago, emdia43 said:

Do you still have to pay for Chops?

Lunch at Chops is included in the price of The Key on Embarkation Day only.

[sandebeach]

17 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I didn't do breakfast on Debarkation day, and I wasn't in a suite of any kind (was in a lowly interior, in fact), and from the time I left my room on Deck 6 at 8am to when I was on the sidewalk catching a ride to the airport was maybe ten minutes, and that's mostly because I had to stop and rest my bum knee a couple times.  

Forgot to mention, I was on the exact same cruise you were on, the Great Canadian Spring Break on Symphony!  

So maybe something to keep in mind for future cruises out of Miami's new terminal -- the "debarkation priority perk" isn't really a thing with the way the new terminal moves people through so quickly.  If you get priority seating for shows as D+ and you don't use the exclusive activity times, you may be better off just paying for lunch at Chops and a multi-device internet package.   

I've waited in a debarkation line on other ships in other terminals that seemed to not move for hours and hours (perhaps a slight exaggeration... but that's how it felt at the time!), and in cases like that, I'd have paid for The Key just to bypass that line, other perks be damned!  But the way they have things moving through Miami's new Terminal A, unless you really really need that sit-down breakfast, debarkation's not much of a deal at all.
 

This was our first time at Terminal A and I was very impressed! I agree, people will need to parcel out the components of the Key versus purchasing what they actually need, and see what works best for them in terms of time and value for money. Before we made Platinum on Carnival, I always bought their Faster to the Fun to get priority boarding, room ready upon boarding, private line at Guest Services, and priority debarkation. Perhaps RC might look at adding "room ready upon boarding" and "private line at Guest Services" as more components of the Key.

[TennisCruiser62]

Any specifics for The Key on Anthem of the Seas? Did I miss anyone posting a pic of the Private Hours for activities on Anthem? I saw it for many other ships but not specifically Anthem heading to the Bahamas. 

[aespo4]

7 hours ago, rockmom said:

Thanks for this review--we head out on Allure in 60 days and are excited to try out The Key.  We won't be hogging up the flowrider line, but might make use of the rockwall or zipline times. It was the rest of the perks that we felt made it worth it based on what we enjoy while cruising.  

We used the zip line once at a non Key time and my daughter kept going on and on as the line only had a few people in it and they were all doing the same. Watch for the last day as lines were very long on all activities as everyone seems to want to try them.  

[ZoeyVictoria]

8 hours ago, brillohead said:

I didn't do breakfast on Debarkation day, and I wasn't in a suite of any kind (was in a lowly interior, in fact), and from the time I left my room on Deck 6 at 8am to when I was on the sidewalk catching a ride to the airport was maybe ten minutes, and that's mostly because I had to stop and rest my bum knee a couple times.  

Forgot to mention, I was on the exact same cruise you were on, the Great Canadian Spring Break on Symphony!  
 

 

I was also on that cruise, as non-Key and Diamond.  We arrived at approximately 11:30, were told that Diamond had just boarded and we should walk right on to the ship.  We took our rolling carryons with us to Chops, where we had a reservation.  By the time we finished lunch, cabins had just opened and we headed there to check out the cabin and drop off the carryons.

 

I have never had an Internet package, as I like to disconnect on cruises.  This time we had WiFi at beach resorts in both Roatan and Costa Maya on Monday and Tuesday.  We used one free Diamond coupon from Wednesday afternoon until Thursday afternoon, and paid $7.01 plus the other Diamond coupon for service from Thursday afternoon until we left the shop on Saturday.  Sharing the “one device” plan worked fine for us.

 

I had made show reservations on the first day they were available.  Then I changed a couple of our previously made MTD reservations to allow plenty of time to get to the shows early enough to get good seats every time.

 

We enjoyed spending a lot of time watching others on the Flowrider, but neither of us would be medically able to ride ourselves.

 

Embarkation was the absolute best I have ever experienced.  We set the alarm for 6 a.m. and had a quick bagel at the Park Cafe because we wanted to get started on our five-hour drive home.  We then walked off the ship without stopping other than the minute or two it took to get a porter and pick up luggage.  We had number 8 luggage tags, but it looked like all luggage was available by the time we got there at 7:00 a.m.

 

When the Key was first announced, I didn’t think it would have any value for us.  I waffled on that a few times, but ultimately passed on it, and it was the correct choice for us.  We spent $44 for lunch at Chops and $7 for internet service.  Careful planning and $51 gave us pretty much the same experience as the Key that would have cost $280.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by ZoeyVictoria

[ShillyShally]

9 hours ago, sandebeach said:

This was our first time at Terminal A and I was very impressed! I agree, people will need to parcel out the components of the Key versus purchasing what they actually need, and see what works best for them in terms of time and value for money. Before we made Platinum on Carnival, I always bought their Faster to the Fun to get priority boarding, room ready upon boarding, private line at Guest Services, and priority debarkation. Perhaps RC might look at adding "room ready upon boarding" and "private line at Guest Services" as more components of the Key.

I know the Key is their response to FTTF but I'd prefer the perks of FTTF over the Key truly!

[blueridgemama]

1 hour ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

 

I was also on that cruise, as non-Key and Diamond.  We arrived at approximately 11:30, were told that Diamond had just boarded and we should walk right on to the ship.  We took our rolling carryons with us to Chops, where we had a reservation.  By the time we finished lunch, cabins had just opened and we headed there to check out the cabin and drop off the carryons.

 

I have never had an Internet package, as I like to disconnect on cruises.  This time we had WiFi at beach resorts in both Roatan and Costa Maya on Monday and Tuesday.  We used one free Diamond coupon from Wednesday afternoon until Thursday afternoon, and paid $7.01 plus the other Diamond coupon for service from Thursday afternoon until we left the shop on Saturday.  Sharing the “one device” plan worked fine for us.

 

I had made show reservations on the first day they were available.  Then I changed a couple of our previously made MTD reservations to allow plenty of time to get to the shows early enough to get good seats every time.

 

We enjoyed spending a lot of time watching others on the Flowrider, but neither of us would be medically able to ride ourselves.

 

Embarkation was the absolute best I have ever experienced.  We set the alarm for 6 a.m. and had a quick bagel at the Park Cafe because we wanted to get started on our five-hour drive home.  We then walked off the ship without stopping other than the minute or two it took to get a porter and pick up luggage.  We had number 8 luggage tags, but it looked like all luggage was available by the time we got there at 7:00 a.m.

 

When the Key was first announced, I didn’t think it would have any value for us.  I waffled on that a few times, but ultimately passed on it, and it was the correct choice for us.  We spent $44 for lunch at Chops and $7 for internet service.  Careful planning and $51 gave us pretty much the same experience as the Key that would have cost $280.

 

 

 

 

Glad it worked out for you.

[RFerrington]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:57 PM, youwash said:

It is the RANDOM granting of PreCheck to travelers who have no idea what it is and how it works.

This is why we are now CLEAR customers !

[ShillyShally]

9 minutes ago, RFerrington said:

This is why we are now CLEAR customers !

Us too - they knew what they were doing giving us a trial membership - HOOKED 🙂  My travelling partners usually get pre-check when I book all of our tickets but I also expect that's because I enter my KTN from Global Entry as well.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

On 3/6/2019 at 9:57 PM, youwash said:

 

My observation of TSA PreCheck is not the Tom Dick and Harry applying for and using it that is changing the wait times and lines. It is the RANDOM granting of PreCheck to travelers who have no idea what it is and how it works. 

TSA Precheck assignments were done by some airlines for their high-traffic, high mileage customers for free a couple years ago. In my case,  I've flown more than 2 Million miles, with 1.6 Million being with 1 airline, which has TSA Precheck on my boarding passes nearly every flight - again - for free.

 

Occasionally...TSA chooses to do a "random check" and in those few cases...the Precheck designation on the boarding pass is not there. 

 

Precheck is also now a commoditized service people can get by paying for it annually or for an extended term up to 5 years. That has resulted in some Precheck lines in some airports being longer than "regular passenger" lines at peak periods. 

 

Clear further muddies the water, depending on where their physical entry point is at a particular airport. For example, the Clear line in Atlanta's airport mergers into the TSA Precheck line near the front...further delaying Precheck and causing many disgrunted passengers.

 

So in the end..it comes down to the amount people are willing to pay - Clear costs the most but often can get you through security quicker at many airports - however - it is limited to the larger airports only, and sometimes their system itself "goes down" during peak periods, causing passenger delays.

 

[CRUISEFAN0001]

As for the topic at hand...after following this thread from the start...there's a mixed bag of views of the value/benefit to getting "The Key".

 

C&A status, specifically which ship, and itinerary all play a role as to whether or not it is worthwhile.

[snaefell]

Seems to me that so much depends on the length of your cruise,being on 12 nights cruises seems like an awful lot of money for what you get.