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BENHANDEL

Is a passport card sufficient?

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On 11/5/2018 at 6:58 PM, BENHANDEL said:

 

When we all got our first passports 2 years ago, hubby thought the card looked "cool" and he wanted the kids to have some sort of portable ID. That's why we have cards...

I have both and use mine all the time, I live on the Canadian border and it is just easier not to have to carry your passport with you for just a few hours in Canada. I have never been given a problem at the border. I would never leave my passport in the car while I did shopping in Canada and I don't carry only a very small purse so a pass card is much more convenient 

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6 hours ago, mredandchis said:

 

True, and yet with a shadow.  I was active military, with active military id.  Was asked if i had a government passport.  Different because it is issued and is red.   No I didnt have a passport, that seemed to cause a stir.  My personal passport somehow got shipped with my household goods.  So i had to cool my jets waiting for them to sort it all out.  They had me concerned for a while but finally did me a favor and left me in.  So yes i got in just wasnt very smooth at all.  But then they have the duty to ensure that the person entering is valid to enter,  a passport declares that loudly. Oh and btw, i did cross from Germany to Belgium to catch the plane and they accepted the id without hesitation.  

I never had an issue with my military ID card but then I had a green one. They didn't do you a favor, they had no choice but to admit you. There are no provisions in US law to legally deny entry to a US citizen. There may be times where the issue is cloudy but they have ways of verifying things and all it takes is a little time. Since you did have a passport all they had to do was access your record in that system and there you'd be in living color on their computer screen. If you had a copy of your orders that would work too because even now there is an exception in the regulations that allows military members to travel without a passport with their military ID and their orders. I live 8 miles from the border and it happens once or twice a year that someone goes up to Canada and loses their documentation. They present themselves at the border, spend a little time in secondary inspection and then proceed on their way.

Edited by sparks1093

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13 hours ago, broberts said:

 

It is not arrogance. A US citizen cannot and would not be denied entry into the US. 

I didn't say you would be denied entry into the US.

 

However to decide for yourself that another country has no choice but to let you through their airport security checkpoints and let you travel on an aircraft without a passport book  just because you are an American citizen is most certainly arrogant.

It IS arrogant to know that there is a system in place (a passport card NOT being valid for air travel) and decide that the rules shouldn't apply to you because you are a U.S. citizen.


 

 

Edited by Chervil
forgot a letter

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18 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

The original question was is a passport card sufficient for a cruise and it absolutely is. (And you can bring whatever you want, it has no impact on anyone else, just as their choice doesn't impact you.)

 

7 hours ago, mafiadon said:

I have both and use mine all the time, I live on the Canadian border and it is just easier not to have to carry your passport with you for just a few hours in Canada. I have never been given a problem at the border. I would never leave my passport in the car while I did shopping in Canada and I don't carry only a very small purse so a pass card is much more convenient 

I agree!

 

We cross over into Mexico with ours all the time and never bring our passport books.
That is exactly what the cards were designed for!

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12 hours ago, BENHANDEL said:

 

We made that major investment for a cruise 2 years ago. At that time we bought 5 passports, with five passport cards. We thought they looked neat and patriotic, and like the idea of having official identification for kids who were not yet old enough to have driver's licenses.

 

Since then, my son's passport book has gone missing. We are sure it is in the house somewhere, but can't find it. We are running out of time to replace it before this trip, and had planned to get him updated one when he turned 18. We like the idea of giving him that gift of travel to last the next 10 years.

That is an awesome idea!
I'm sure he'll be eager to get those first few stamps in it!
I know our daughter was!

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@Chervil, I don't think it is arrogant to expect that airline and security authorities around the world understand emergency circumstances and are use to dealing with them in a compassionate and expeditious manner.

 

I have never suggested that US citizenship somehow endows the holder with special status. The fact is this thread is about using a US passport card for a cruise and it is in that context my posts have been made.

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On 11/14/2018 at 8:29 AM, sparks1093 said:

I've heard of many cases where passengers flew home from the port in an emergency without a passport. Do you recall what caused them to leave the cruise early?

 

Yeah, he was kicked off a RC ship for unruly behavior after getting a little too deep into the Makers Mark :classic_blush:   He cant handle the brown likker lol.    That little stunt cost him a whole cruise, 688.00 flight and 14 hours to get from Montego Bay Jamaica to Gainesville FL airport via MIA.   Needless to say, he quit drinking lol 

Edited by ryano

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31 minutes ago, Chervil said:

I didn't say you would be denied entry into the US.

 

However to decide for yourself that another country has no choice but to let you through their airport security checkpoints and let you travel on an aircraft without a passport book  just because you are an American citizen is most certainly arrogant.

It IS arrogant to know that there is a system in place (a passport card NOT being valid for air travel) and decide that the rules shouldn't apply to you because you are a U.S. citizen.


 

 

I was reading a thread not too long ago where a US citizen had to leave a cruise due to a minor medical emergency in Puerto Vallharta (sp). They were directed to go to the airport by the port agent and to let him know if they had any issues. As I recall it took them 40 minutes to find someone at the airport to allow them to board the plane and then they spent 10 minutes in secondary inspection when they landed. They did have a passport card. I have since read a few more instances where passengers had to leave the cruise and were just sent to the airport. They were allowed to board and fly home (all I know is they did not have a passport). There is a system in place but there is also a system in place for when emergencies happen. 

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6 minutes ago, ryano said:

 

Yeah, he was kicked off a RC ship for unruly behavior after getting a little too deep into the Makers Mark :classic_blush:   He cant handle the brown likker lol.    That little stunt cost him a whole cruise, 688.00 flight and 14 hours to get from Montego Bay Jamaica to Gainesville FL airport via MIA.   Needless to say, he quit drinking lol 

Probably a good thing that he did quit, that was an expensive lesson.

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26 minutes ago, broberts said:

@Chervil, I don't think it is arrogant to expect that airline and security authorities around the world understand emergency circumstances and are use to dealing with them in a compassionate and expeditious manner.

 

I have never suggested that US citizenship somehow endows the holder with special status. The fact is this thread is about using a US passport card for a cruise and it is in that context my posts have been made.

I was responding to your statement: A US citizen cannot and would not be denied entry into the US. 

You didn't suggest, you made an emphatic statement!

 

Now, I completely understand in the context of an emergency humans in general should be compassionate and hopefully exceptions could and would be made.
I suppose it depends on what exactly your definition of "emergency" is.

We had a friend who had to be taken off a cruise ship in port for a medical emergency, spent a few days in a hospital in another country and then was flown back home (he nearly died).
They had traveled without passports and said that while they were finally able to get through airport security, it was a huge ordeal that took several hours. While they were grateful they were able to finally get through, the extended wait in both security and US customs when they arrived was extremely difficult to endure due to his health.

 

Medical emergencies generally do deserve compassion and usually elicit that response.
 

However missing your ship because you were late to the dock is not an emergency.
Deciding that you hate cruising and deciding to utilize Carnival's clause to get off in port and be flown home is not an emergency.

 

My response about a passport card being fine for travel on a cruise ship or by land, but being insufficient for air travel was also made in the context of this thread.

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9 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Probably a good thing that he did quit, that was an expensive lesson.

 

Im figuring about 3 grand or so since he was sailing solo lol.  It happened on the first sea day that Monday evening.  First stop was Labadee on Tuesday and they couldnt disembark him there so he was confined to his cabin until Wednesday when we got to Falmouth.  He never even seen the first port of call lol 

Edited by ryano

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9 minutes ago, Chervil said:

I was responding to your statement: A US citizen cannot and would not be denied entry into the US. 

You didn't suggest, you made an emphatic statement!

 

Now, I completely understand in the context of an emergency humans in general should be compassionate and hopefully exceptions could and would be made.
I suppose it depends on what exactly your definition of "emergency" is.

We had a friend who had to be taken off a cruise ship in port for a medical emergency, spent a few days in a hospital in another country and then was flown back home (he nearly died).
They had traveled without passports and said that while they were finally able to get through airport security, it was a huge ordeal that took several hours. While they were grateful they were able to finally get through, the extended wait in both security and US customs when they arrived was extremely difficult to endure due to his health.

 

Medical emergencies generally do deserve compassion and usually elicit that response.
 

However missing your ship because you were late to the dock is not an emergency.
Deciding that you hate cruising and deciding to utilize Carnival's clause to get off in port and be flown home is not an emergency.

 

My response about a passport card being fine for travel on a cruise ship or by land, but being insufficient for air travel was also made in the context of this thread.

The statement "a US citizen cannot and would not be denied entry into the US" is fact, there are no provisions in US law to deny entry. Of course the crux of the matter is getting to a port of entry. Getting a US citizen home from a foreign port is as easy as putting them on a plane and letting it be sorted out in secondary inspection. As I pointed out earlier people do from time to time cross the border with no documentation, they lost it or had it stolen. After they are verified they are allowed to proceed. 

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18 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I was reading a thread not too long ago where a US citizen had to leave a cruise due to a minor medical emergency in Puerto Vallharta (sp). They were directed to go to the airport by the port agent and to let him know if they had any issues. As I recall it took them 40 minutes to find someone at the airport to allow them to board the plane and then they spent 10 minutes in secondary inspection when they landed. They did have a passport card. I have since read a few more instances where passengers had to leave the cruise and were just sent to the airport. They were allowed to board and fly home (all I know is they did not have a passport). There is a system in place but there is also a system in place for when emergencies happen. 

Not saying exceptions can't and won't happen.
All I am saying is that it would be best not to assume that since an exception could be made that a person shouldn't try their best to keep from having to find out.

If all you have is a passport card, then it is up to you to decide if you want to roll the dice.

If you have both, why wouldn't you bring it just in case?

 

I know quite a few people who live their lives expecting that an exception will be made.

They are usually the ones that make the get angry and vocal when an exception isn't made for them.

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1 minute ago, Chervil said:

Not saying exceptions can't and won't happen.
All I am saying is that it would be best not to assume that since an exception could be made that a person shouldn't try their best to keep from having to find out.

If all you have is a passport card, then it is up to you to decide if you want to roll the dice.

If you have both, why wouldn't you bring it just in case?

 

I know quite a few people who live their lives expecting that an exception will be made.

They are usually the ones that make the get angry and vocal when an exception isn't made for them.

I've heard from both a senior Border Patrol Agent and a senior CBP Officer that there are no provisions in US law to deny entry to a US citizen, so it really isn't an exception at all. I've traveled with just a birth certificate and drivers license in the days before we had a passport so rolling the dice with just a passport card would be a no brainer. 

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4 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

The statement "a US citizen cannot and would not be denied entry into the US" is fact, there are no provisions in US law to deny entry. Of course the crux of the matter is getting to a port of entry. Getting a US citizen home from a foreign port is as easy as putting them on a plane and letting it be sorted out in secondary inspection. As I pointed out earlier people do from time to time cross the border with no documentation, they lost it or had it stolen. After they are verified they are allowed to proceed. 

As you point out, if they can get to a port of entry. And that is what I have been saying.
A passport card is unlikely to get you through foreign security checkpoints without either a great deal of hassle or intervention from locally based US officials.

"As easy as putting them on a plane"?

Who is putting them on this plane so easily? What is your definition of "easy"?
You mean after you spend hours waiting for them to decide that they can let you board a plane without a passport book?
(source: friend who went through exactly that ordeal when they were stranded due to a medical stay in a foreign hospital)

How easy it is will depend greatly on not only the kind of day the official you are dealing with is having, but also current world events and whether air travel security was suddenly restricted or tightened.

 

You obviously have no actual experience with this scenario to claim it is "easy".

And traveling with a military ID, orders or ID card is much different.

 

My statement in my original post stands:
As others have said. however, if for whatever reason you get stuck out of the country (medical emergency and have to fly home from a port, miss the boat because you got stuck in traffic on a non-carnival sanctioned excursion, etc.) then the passport card WILL NOT be sufficient to fly back home.

 

If you have absolutely no other choice, then it is your decision to roll those dice.
But to have both and decide to only take the card because "they'll let me back in anyway, cuz I'm 'Merican!" is indeed arrogant.

At that point you are not availing yourself of a merciful and compassionate exception but rather expecting an exception to be made for you because it was inconvenient for you to follow the rules.

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17 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I've heard from both a senior Border Patrol Agent and a senior CBP Officer that there are no provisions in US law to deny entry to a US citizen, so it really isn't an exception at all. I've traveled with just a birth certificate and drivers license in the days before we had a passport so rolling the dice with just a passport card would be a no brainer. 

I walked across the border to Mexico with just a DL and birth certificate about 3 yrs ago (passport had literally expired days before and I hadn't realized it).
It took me about 30 minutes to get back into the US while they checked my documentation to make sure I wasn't pulling a fast one. (you can tell by my picture there isn't much question).
That was at a land crossing, no air travel involved.

My last crossing about 3 weeks ago with a passport?
30 seconds.

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49 minutes ago, Chervil said:

As you point out, if they can get to a port of entry. And that is what I have been saying.
A passport card is unlikely to get you through foreign security checkpoints without either a great deal of hassle or intervention from locally based US officials.

"As easy as putting them on a plane"?

Who is putting them on this plane so easily? What is your definition of "easy"?
You mean after you spend hours waiting for them to decide that they can let you board a plane without a passport book?
(source: friend who went through exactly that ordeal when they were stranded due to a medical stay in a foreign hospital)

How easy it is will depend greatly on not only the kind of day the official you are dealing with is having, but also current world events and whether air travel security was suddenly restricted or tightened.

 

You obviously have no actual experience with this scenario to claim it is "easy".

And traveling with a military ID, orders or ID card is much different.

 

My statement in my original post stands:
As others have said. however, if for whatever reason you get stuck out of the country (medical emergency and have to fly home from a port, miss the boat because you got stuck in traffic on a non-carnival sanctioned excursion, etc.) then the passport card WILL NOT be sufficient to fly back home.

 

If you have absolutely no other choice, then it is your decision to roll those dice.
But to have both and decide to only take the card because "they'll let me back in anyway, cuz I'm 'Merican!" is indeed arrogant.

At that point you are not availing yourself of a merciful and compassionate exception but rather expecting an exception to be made for you because it was inconvenient for you to follow the rules.

I would consider a few hour delay to be relatively easy, the bottom line is you will make it home. The port agent's assistance would be critical in such an instance and I wouldn't do anything without checking with him first. And of course we are talking about IF something goes wrong in the first place which is a low risk for many people. Millions of people travel on closed loop cruises every year with something other than a passport with no issues at all and there are procedures in place to get them home if something happens. 

Edited by sparks1093

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41 minutes ago, Chervil said:

I walked across the border to Mexico with just a DL and birth certificate about 3 yrs ago (passport had literally expired days before and I hadn't realized it).
It took me about 30 minutes to get back into the US while they checked my documentation to make sure I wasn't pulling a fast one. (you can tell by my picture there isn't much question).
That was at a land crossing, no air travel involved.

My last crossing about 3 weeks ago with a passport?
30 seconds.

But you still got back right? That's been the point. Yes, it's much faster if you have the proper documentation for what you are doing and I don't think anyone has disputed that.  Since you have had a passport before I'm surprised that it took that long to verify your citizenship since all they had to do was access the State Department website.

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21 hours ago, coevan said:

I could not agree more. You are spending a couple of grand for a vacation, $145 safety net is a very good investment. It's $14.50 a year, and maybe you might lucky enough to travel abroad in the next 10 years. The rules are very specific, a passport card is not allowed for international air travel. 

 

So if I go to a local gym and sign up for a membership where I'm charged $10 a month.  Assuming I go to the gym once during the year, it's a good investment.  Good grief.  It's not a good investment if it's not used.

 

A passport card has its benefits and limitations (as does the EDL, BC and Passport book).  A US citizen is always able to travel back to the US and gain entry.  There are even times when a US citizen had no id at all.  Once they are identified, the are allowed admittance into the US.  If you need to fly without a passport book, work with the embassy in the country you're in to expedite travel.  That is what they are there for.  It is an inconvenience, not a life changing traumatic event.

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2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

But you still got back right? That's been the point. Yes, it's much faster if you have the proper documentation for what you are doing and I don't think anyone has disputed that.  Since you have had a passport before I'm surprised that it took that long to verify your citizenship since all they had to do was access the State Department website.

I did indeed.

As far as how long it took, I'm not too surprised since my passport had expired so recently it may have looked odd that I didn't just renew it and was using my DL and birth certificate.
Also, definitely not surprised because of the increased scrutiny at the borders (especially Mexico).

I anticipate that things will only get stricter in the future.
Let's be honest, there are certain states at the moment that you have to use a passport to fly because their DL is not up to the "real ID" standards the government set. 

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25 minutes ago, Chervil said:

I did indeed.

As far as how long it took, I'm not too surprised since my passport had expired so recently it may have looked odd that I didn't just renew it and was using my DL and birth certificate.
Also, definitely not surprised because of the increased scrutiny at the borders (especially Mexico).

I anticipate that things will only get stricter in the future.
Let's be honest, there are certain states at the moment that you have to use a passport to fly because their DL is not up to the "real ID" standards the government set. 

I don't think so regarding REAL ID, I believe DHS has provided another extension (and even if that is the case the passport card is REAL ID compliant and may be used for domestic flights).

Edited by sparks1093

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2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't think so regarding REAL ID, I believe DHS has provided another extension (and even if that is the case the passport card is REAL ID compliant and may be used for domestic flights).

Oh, I understand that you  can use the passport card for domestic flights if your DL isn't compliant.
I was simply pointing out how strict security has become in the US as far as identification goes.


I'm old enough to remember a time you didn't even need an ID to fly domestically!

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