Ship to Replace Anthem in Bayonne

[boscobeans]

30 minutes ago, jonesy4life9 said:

It would be a seasonal port.  New York does not get snow late April through early October.  And it is rare to get snow in late October.  If Oasis is only in Bayonne seasonally, you wouldn’t have to worry about snow.  Oasis can avoid the Canada/New England sailings by doing Bahamas/Caribbean while Adventure (and a 3rd ship in the north east) does those itineraries.  Snow won’t be an issue for a seasonal sailing.

 

Seasonal?  Of course. Just posting to show how N.Y. and N.J. cruises in the WINTER months can be a challenge, to say the least.

 

We've been doing them since 2002.

 

[HBE4]

14 minutes ago, piescruises said:

Cruises usually leave on weekends when there is less traffic.

 

I've spent many a weekend sitting in traffic admiring the  Stamford skyline which traveling to and from Foxwoods casino😉

[piescruises]

1 minute ago, HBE4 said:

 

I've spent many a weekend sitting in traffic admiring the  Stamford skyline which traveling to and from Foxwoods casino😉

stamford though still has the second-busiest train station in metro north and has the merit as an alternative to 95

[twangster]

I learned on Adventure that the Verrazano Narrows bridge sags several feet in heat of the summer.  Ironically it's higher in the winter.  

[HBE4]

36 minutes ago, piescruises said:

Fort Lauderdale has condos similar to stamford and putting this in stamford rather than greenwich is better for many reasons: traffic, pollution, transportation people in stamford probably would more ok. not in my backyard middle the 3 miles from your backyard. How do the beaches in fort lauderdale stay clean with 5 cruise ships.  

 

Probably b/c the FLL beaches are on the ocean while the LI sound beaches close every time there is a heavy rainstorm due to pollution from storm water runoff.

 

If you are advocating Stamford to replace Bayonne as a port, then you'll need to get people from New Jersey, PA, NYC, Long Island, the 3 major airports and upstate NY to Stamford. A tunnel under the LI sound would help alleviate some of that and has been discussed since the 1960's.  But local residents on both sides of the LI Sound would oppose it.

 

 

[HBE4]

24 minutes ago, piescruises said:

stamford though still has the second-busiest train station in metro north

 

Good point and it is a definite possibility.  However, not sure how many are willing to take the train while hauling a week's work of luggage for the family. Perhaps if Royal had a check-in kiosk at Grand Central or Penn Station it might work.

Edited November 19, 2018 by HBE4

[piescruises]

15 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

Good point and it is a definite possibility.  However, not sure how many are willing to take the train while hauling a week's work of luggage for the family. Perhaps if Royal had a check-in kiosk at Grand Central or Penn Station it might work.

stamford could be like civitavecchia is to rome. Stamford is to new york. They could design the train schedule and shuttle buses from the stc to the pier.

[reallyitsmema]

17 minutes ago, piescruises said:

stamford could be like civitavecchia is to rome. Stamford is to new york. They could design the train schedule and shuttle buses from the stc to the pier.

 

No, it isn't.  Civitavecchia is a large seaport.  Stamford has a marina.

[piescruises]

Just now, reallyitsmema said:

 

No, it isn't.  Civitavecchia is a large seaport.  Stamford has a marina.

I mean both have good train access to their major cities and are cities themselves and are on the water.

[reallyitsmema]

Just now, piescruises said:

I mean both have good train access to their major cities and are cities themselves and are on the water.

 

Having a city on the water does not mean it has the infrastructure to support a cruise ship.  As far as train access, that is not how most travel to US ports.

 

 

[piescruises]

1 minute ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

Having a city on the water does not mean it has the infrastructure to support a cruise ship.  As far as train access, that is not how most travel to US ports.

 

 

Most ports have expansive roadways and less traffic, so train service helps. In civitavecchia lots of people take the train to the port.

[HBE4]

28 minutes ago, piescruises said:

stamford could be like civitavecchia is to rome. Stamford is to new york. They could design the train schedule and shuttle buses from the stc to the pier.

 

True. My concern was luggage on the train. Metro-North is a commuter railroad and does not have baggage cars. The storage space within the passenger cars is more for backpacks and laptop bags, not big suitcases.

 

Amtrack does have the ability to carry checked baggage and would certainly be able to absorb some of the crowds.

[piescruises]

1 minute ago, HBE4 said:

 

True. My concern was luggage on the train. Metro-North is a commuter railroad and does not have baggage cars. The storage space within the passenger cars is more for backpacks and laptop bags, not big suitcases.

 

Amtrack does have the ability to carry checked baggage and would certainly be able to absorb some of the crowds.

That’s also the great thing about stamford’s trains for a possible cruise people can take the acela from boston or philadelphia to the ship especially to appeal to the city dweller without a car.

[HBE4]

14 minutes ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

No, it isn't.  Civitavecchia is a large seaport.  Stamford has a marina.

 

True. Probably the closest (and only) deep water port would be New Haven. Not sure if it could handle a cruise ship tho.

 

Plus, being half-way between New York and Boston, it would not make sense economically for Royal to open another port. It would be competing against itself.

[HBE4]

7 minutes ago, piescruises said:

 In civitavecchia lots of people take the train to the port.

 

In Europe, more people take the train period.

 

As already noted, most people on the US do not.  It would be nice if they did.

[piescruises]

5 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

True. Probably the closest (and only) deep water port would be New Haven. Not sure if it could handle a cruise ship tho.

 

Plus, being half-way between New York and Boston, it would not make sense economically for Royal to open another port. It would be competing against itself.

That would be a 2-hour journey from the and your trying to new york market. you’d too far away by then. it would be easier infrastructure-wise,but new haven is just as close to a major airport(Bradley) JFK,LGA definetly have flights to more destinations and stamford is about the same distance to lga and jfk as new haven is to bradley

[twangster]

5 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

True. Probably the closest (and only) deep water port would be New Haven. Not sure if it could handle a cruise ship tho.

 

Plus, being half-way between New York and Boston, it would not make sense economically for Royal to open another port. It would be competing against itself.

 

Miami and Port Everglades are pretty close.  Do they compete with each other?  Two ships in Bayonne compete with each other.  Moving one ship down the coast a little wouldn't change the market in a big way.  

 

Developing an entire cruise port from scratch is a lot different than building a new terminal at an existing port.  Since we are playing this silly game, it would make equal sense to consider Boston.

[suesnake2002]

Just got off the anthem saturday. And this was asked at the captains corner. And the captain replied probably an oasis class ship. That there were negotiations going on for that!@

[dswallow]

I avoid cruises leaving from NYC, preferring Port Liberty, out of not wanting to deal with overpriced parking or painful travel. No way CT is ever an alternative to sailing out of NJ. It'd be easier to fly to Florida. Only Galveston seems worse to me, because of the distance from the airport(s) to the port.

 

As to an Oasis class out of NJ... I hope that never happens; I'm not a fan of the class at all. But if it did, it could do so seasonally if they figured out how to deal with getting under the Verrazzano-Narrows bridge. All the Caribbean ports visited by Anthem could handle it. Port Liberty itself can handle it (the waterways to deep ocean have 50-feet draft). Not sure about Charleston, SC, but that could simply be skipped if there's an Anthem itineraries with it, no great loss. 🙂

 

Verrazzano-Narrows itself always has at least 228 feet air clearance at mean high water.

 

The Queen Mary 2 was designed to fit under the Verrazzano-Narrows bridge and has a height of 236.2 feet.

 

From an article on it (https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/nyregion/this-ship-is-so-big-the-verrazano-cringes.html) back in 2004:

 

That is, assuming the Queen Mary 2 makes it under the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge. If the Queen Mary 2 were to sail under at high tide, the clearance would be only 13 feet. Indeed, the bridge influenced the shape of the ship. ''It looks squat and a little bit dumpy, and that's because of the Verrazano,'' Mr. Miller said. ''The funnel is flatter than it should be.'' From keel to black-and-red funnel is 236 feet.

 

So I suspect that there's some designed leeway in many of the numbers we see published. Certainly the 12-foot summer-to-winter height difference in the Verrazzano-Narrows because of expansion/contraction is part of it. Mean high tide, too (maybe 5 to 7 feet?).

 

And I also seem unable to locate any height of Quantum class beyond what people report in forums from time to time. Is there an official source somewhere online anyone knows about?

Edited November 19, 2018 by dswallow

[HBE4]

14 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Miami and Port Everglades are pretty close.  Do they compete with each other? 

 

No, but Florida is the cruise ship capital of the world with people flying in from all over. So there is no capacity issue.

 

Not sure if it would make sense to have a ship in Connecticut in addition to Boston and New York. I guess if the demand is there....or as you suggested, moving a ship down the coast a bit.

 

But, it will never happen so, getting back to the topic of which ship with be in Bayonne......

 

 

[twangster]

V-N has a stated marine clearance of 215' according to nautical charts.

 

 

That's likely worst case but insurance companies get very nervous when you have to work all the factors to squeeze something through as tidal predictions don't always have absolute precision.  

 

[dswallow]

I'm getting curious now about Queen Mary 2; it's regularly scheduled in Brooklyn, has to pass under the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge, and shows as being 236.2 feet after it's design was modified to ensure it got under that very bridge. So... what's different?

 

https://www.travelmavenblog.com/2015/07/queen-mary-2-transatlantic-new-york-celebration.html

 

[piescruises]

34 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

Miami and Port Everglades are pretty close.  Do they compete with each other?  Two ships in Bayonne compete with each other.  Moving one ship down the coast a little wouldn't change the market in a big way.  

 

Developing an entire cruise port from scratch is a lot different than building a new terminal at an existing port.  Since we are playing this silly game, it would make equal sense to consider Boston.

no because stamford is in new york csa and would be like moving a ship from cape liberty to manhattan. It’s just constructing a new terminal. considering boston would be a whole different market.

[twangster]

10 minutes ago, dswallow said:

I'm getting curious now about Queen Mary 2; it's regularly scheduled in Brooklyn, has to pass under the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge, and shows as being 236.2 feet after it's design was modified to ensure it got under that very bridge. So... what's different?

 

https://www.travelmavenblog.com/2015/07/queen-mary-2-transatlantic-new-york-celebration.html

 

 

QM2 total height from keel is 236'.  Water draft of 33.8' means an air draft (above the waterline) of 203'.  That leaves 12' of clearance under the V-N bridge.

 

Oasis has an air draft of 236'.  That all above the water line.

Edited November 19, 2018 by twangster

[reallyitsmema]

6 minutes ago, piescruises said:

no because stamford is in new york csa and would be like moving a ship from cape liberty to manhattan. It’s just constructing a new terminal. considering boston would be a whole different market.

 

It is not just constructing a new terminal!  The ship doesn't just sail in and toss out a line.  There needs to be an infrastructure to support the ship, it does not exist in Stamford and never will.